Did you ever wonder who...

[CoreIssue]

I love bible study. I feel sad for you that you don't even know what passage's from scripture show that Jesus said the Church, His Church, will always be.

I will gladly answer your question once you answer mine: Irenaeus writings, and the writings of the Apostolic and ECF's, mirror catholic teaching soooo how does he predate Catholicism???

Patient Mary

I have been studying for 58 years.

Church as born-again believers, yes. As the Catholic Church, no.

Mirroring Catholic teachings? No.

Which also begs the question, which Teachings? Roman or Orthodox?

 

[Marymog]

I have been studying for 58 years.

Church as born-again believers, yes. As the Catholic Church, no.

Mirroring Catholic teachings? No.

Which also begs the question, which Teachings? Roman or Orthodox?

Your ignorance of your own Christian history is astounding.

 

[CoreIssue]

Your ignorance of your own Christian history is astounding.

You didn't answer my question and I am well studied in church history.

 

[Marymog]

You didn't answer my question and I am well studied in church history.

Yes, the Apostolic Fathers and the ECF's mirror catholic teaching. Since you don't know that Your ignorance of your own Christian history is astounding.

Roman and Orthodox key doctrines mirror each other and since you didn't know that it shows your lack of your desire to educate yourself.

Thank you for your time.

 

[CoreIssue]

Yes, the Apostolic Fathers and the ECF's mirror catholic teaching. Since you don't know that Your ignorance of your own Christian history is astounding.

Roman and Orthodox key doctrines mirror each other and since you didn't know that it shows your lack of your desire to educate yourself.

Thank you for your time.

One example of difference, the Pope. They most assuredly do not agree.

 

[Marymog]

One example of difference, the Pope. They most assuredly do not agree.

Orthodox don't have a recognized head of Church. Catholics do.....hence the orthodox can't agree on a single authority which has been their downfall.

 

[CoreIssue]

Orthodox don't have a recognized head of Church. Catholics do.....hence the orthodox can't agree on a single authority which has been their downfall.

Does not change the fact they are Catholic.

 

[Marymog]

Does not change the fact they are Catholic.

Yes, they are Catholic and their teachings mirror the teachings of the 1st Century Church.

Your teachings/beliefs mirror the 16th Century Church.

 

[CoreIssue]

Yes, they are Catholic and their teachings mirror the teachings of the 1st Century Church.

Your teachings/beliefs mirror the 16th Century Church.

In the first century the Catholic Church did not exist, nor did the Pope and Mary worship or a laundry list of other Catholic beliefs.

 

[Nancy]

25 and a half HOURS??? That is more than a day.

Lol...thought the same thing, and I'm trying to get through Byrrd's one hour video!

 

[Marymog]

In the first century the Catholic Church did not exist, nor did the Pope and Mary worship or a laundry list of other Catholic beliefs.

Show me a church that can trace it's teachings/doctrines/dogma and history back to the 1st century and I will join that church.

It certainly wasn't Protestant because Protestantism allows anyone to believe what they want as long as they FEEL like they were guided by the Holy Spirit. That is OPPOSITE of what Scripture teaches.

Not sure what YOU mean by "worship". I suspect you mean as a deity. If so, the CC does not "worship" Mary. We recognize her as "blessed" just like Scripture says. She was full of grace, just like scripture says. Since she was full of grace no more grace could be given to her by God. Can more grace be given to you by God? (the answer is yes) Since she was full of grace AND blessed AND she was chosen by God to bear His son she is worthy of great respect and honor. Worship is due to God alone. Catholics venerate Mary. We honor her with great reverence because she is the Mother of God. Mary is the model of perfect love and obedience to Christ. Mary is the most beautiful model of total submission to the will of God.

God and Jesus respected her and honored her.....why won't you???

Curious Mary

No Mary, no Jesus.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You didn't answer my question and I am well studied in church history.

Uhhhh, no.
If you were "well-studied" in Church history - you wouldn't make stupid comments like this one that you made about Irenaeus in post #2:
"Contrary to what Catholics claim he predated Catholicism. But he played a key role in establishing the foundation of Catholicism."

In post #7 - I completely DESTROYED your asinine charge with the following - for which you hate YET to respond . . .

First of all - Irenaeus was a student of Polycarp of Smyrna who was a student of Ignatius of Antioch, who was a student of the Apostle John. ALL of them were Catholics.

IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH about the "CATHOLIC CHURCH" is his Letter to the Smyrnaeans on his way to be martyred in Rome around 107 AD:
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).


POLYCARP was martyred several years later - and the following document about his death attests to the CATHOLIC CHURCH:
Excerpt from The Martyrdom of Polycarp:
When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath.


In his famous treatise "Against Heresies", IRENAEUS lists all of the Popes from his own time all the way back to Peter. His arguments in this treatise are against those who deny the CATHOLIC CHURCH and its Authority:
Irenaeus
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).

YOUR pathetic claims that the Catholic Church didn't start until the year 335 AD have absolutely ZERO documentation to substantiate them - yet you continue to regurgitate this nonsense.

Ignoring responses like this is what killed your own online forum . . .

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Lol...thought the same thing, and I'm trying to get through Byrrd's one hour video!

What I found amusing is he said it was "ONLY" 25 1/2 hours.

 

[BreadOfLife]

In the first century the Catholic Church did not exist, nor did the Pope and Mary worship or a laundry list of other Catholic beliefs.

That's NOT what Irenaeus said.
I thought you were "well-studied" in Church history??

Here is Irenaeus's list of Popes from Peter to his OWN time from his treatise "Against Heresies":

The blessed apostles (Peter & Paul), then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolic tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Soter having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth.

You are RIGHT about "Mary worship".
The Church NEVER taught this . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

That's NOT what Irenaeus said.
I thought you were "well-studied" in Church history??

Here is Irenaeus's list of Popes from Peter to his OWN time from his treatise "Against Heresies":

The blessed apostles (Peter & Paul), then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolic tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Soter having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth.

You are RIGHT about "Mary worship".
The Church NEVER taught this . . .

That list of popes only existed in Catholicism.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That list of popes only existed in Catholicism.

It's right out of Irenaeus's writings, Einstein. The SAME guy that YOU said wasn't a Catholic.

Don't you ever tire of being proven wrong??

 

[CoreIssue]

It's right out of Irenaeus's writings, Einstein. The SAME guy that YOU said wasn't a Catholic.

Don't you ever tire of being proven wrong??

So what. The Bible doesn't say it.

Plus no one at that time would be recognized as a Catholic today.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So what. The Bible doesn't say it.

That's WASN'T your point.
YOU said that the Catholic Church didn't even exist at the time of Irenaeus - and I just blew that idiotic lie right out of the water . . .

Plus no one at that time would be recognized as a Catholic today.

Oh, REALLY??
Let's take a look . . .

The Early Church Fathers believed that the Catholic Church was the one true Church, that it taught infallibly and that the clergy was made up of three ranks; bishop, priest, and deacon.

While the Apostle John was STILL alive - Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch spoke of . . .
- Following your Bishop as obediently as you would follow Christ because he is a type of "FATHER"
- Obeying the clergy as you would the Apostles
- Giving Deacons the same reverence as a command of God
- Celebrating the Eucharist
He said, "Without these, it cannot be called a Church."

Irenaeus:
- Gave a comprehensive list of Popes from his own time going ALL the way back to Peter
- He said that Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world
- Said of the Church of Rome: "With that Church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition.

- They UNANIMOUSLY agreed that the Eucharist was the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ.
- They UNANIMOUSLY agreed that Infant Baptism was an Tradition handed down by the Apostles.
- They UNANIMOUSLY agreed that Peter was was appointed by Christ as the First earthly leader of His Church.
They UNANIMOUSLY agreed on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.
- They UNANIMOUSLY agreed on Mary's Immaculate Conception.
- They UNANIMOUSLY agreed on the Authority of the Church - and on and on . . .

ALL of these statements describe the CATHOLIC CHURCH.
NONE of them sound sound even remotely like the splintered Protestant factions from the 16th century and beyond.

YOUR claim that "no one would be recognized as a Catholic today" has just been obliterated . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

That's WASN'T your point.
YOU said that the Catholic Church didn't even exist at the time of Irenaeus - and I just blew that idiotic lie right out of the water . . .

Oh, REALLY??
Let's take a look . . .

The Early Church Fathers believed that the Catholic Church was the one true Church, that it taught infallibly and that the clergy was made up of three ranks; bishop, priest, and deacon.

While the Apostle John was STILL alive - Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch spoke of . . .
- Following your Bishop as obediently as you would follow Christ because he is a type of "FATHER"
- Obeying the clergy as you would the Apostles
- Giving Deacons the same reverence as a command of God
- Celebrating the Eucharist
He said, "Without these, it cannot be called a Church."

Irenaeus:
- Gave a comprehensive list of Popes from his own time going ALL the way back to Peter
- He said that Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world
- Said of the Church of Rome: "With that Church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition.

- They UNANIMOUSLY agreed that the Eucharist was the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ.
- They UNANIMOUSLY agreed that Infant Baptism was an Tradition handed down by the Apostles.
- They UNANIMOUSLY agreed that Peter was was appointed by Christ as the First earthly leader of His Church.
They UNANIMOUSLY agreed on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.
- They UNANIMOUSLY agreed on Mary's Immaculate Conception.
- They UNANIMOUSLY agreed on the Authority of the Church - and on and on . . .

ALL of these statements describe the CATHOLIC CHURCH.
NONE of them sound sound even remotely like the splintered Protestant factions from the 16th century and beyond.

YOUR claim that "no one would be recognized as a Catholic today" has just been obliterated . . .

There is no point discussing with you. You've already proven you one back to Catholic claims to answer everything.

 

[BreadOfLife]

There is no point discussing with you. You've already proven you one back to Catholic claims to answer everything.

No - YOUR problem is that you refuse to discus historical facts.

You come here spouting off all sorts of fairy tales and lies about the Catholic Church that are both Biblically AND historically bankrupt - then you take "offense" when I challenge you to PROVE them.

What I did in my last post was OBLITERATE all of your asinine charges that the Catholic Church "didn't exist" during Irenaeus's lifetime by quoting him and his predecessors regarding their Catholic faith. I listed the unanimous beliefs of the Early Church - which were unashamedly CATHOLIC.
In short - I took you to the woodshed and gave you an historical spanking . . .

You've posted SEVERAL times on this forum that the Catholic Church didn't exist until the year 335 AD - yet, when I challenge you to provide documentation for this myth - you run and hide.

It's NO WONDER why your own forum failed and died a lonely death - which sent you here looking for participants. Here's a little advice:
Do your homework or get out of the way . . .