Dinah's story

[waterlilyoflife]

Did you know Joseph from the old testament has a sister? Her name is Dinah, and her story is very sad. The story is found in Genesis 34


Now, Dinah, the daughter Leah had born to Jacob, went out to visit the women of the land. When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and he violated her. His heart was drawn to Dinah daughter of Jacob, and he loved the girl and spoke tenderly to her. And Shechem said to his father Hamor, "Give me this girl for me wife."

When Jacob heard that his daughter Dinah had been defiled, his sons were in the fields, so he kept quiet about it until they came home.
Then Shechem's father Hamor went out to talk to Jacob. Now Jacob's sons had come in from the fields as soon as they heard what happened. They were filled with grief and fury, becasue Shechem had done a disgraceful thing in Israel.by lying with Jacob's daughter- a thing that should not be done.

But Hamor said, "My son Shecehm has his heart set on your daughter. Please give her to him as his wife. Intermarry with us, give us your daughters, and take our daughters for yourselves. You can settle among us, the land is open to you. Live in it, trade in it, and acquire property in it."

Then Shechem said to Dinah's father's and brothers, "Let me find favor within your eyes, and I will give you whatever you ask. Make the price for the bride, and the gift I am to bring as great as you like. , and I'll pay whatever you ask. Only give me the girl as my wife."
Because their sister Dinah had been defiled, Jacob's sons replied deceitfully as they spoke to Shecehm and his father Hamor. They said to them"We can't do such a thing, we can't give our sister to a man who is not circumcised. That would be a disgrace to us. We will give our consent for you only on one condition: that you become like us by circumcising all your males. Then we will give you our daughters and take your daughters for ourselves. We'll settle among you and become one people with you. But if you will not agree to be circumsized, we will take our sister and go.

There proposol seemed good to Hamor and his son Shechem, The young man, who was the most honored of all his father's household, lost no time in doing what they said, for he was delighted with Jacob's daughter. So Hamor and Shechem went to the front gate of their city to speak with their fellow townsmen. "These men are friendly with us." They said, "Let them live in our land and trade in it,
​ the land has plenty of room for them. We can marry their daughters and they can marry ours. But the men will consent to live with us only on the condition that our males be circumsized, as they themselves are. Won't their livestock, all their property and animals become ours? So let us give consent to them and they will settle among us.

All the men who went to the city gate agreed with Hamor and his son Shechem and every male in the city was circumsized. Three days later, while all of them were still in pain, two of Jacob's sons, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brothers, took their swords and attacked the unsuspecting city, killing every male. They put Hamor and his son Shechem to the sword and took Dinah from Shechem's house and left. The sons of sons of Jacob came upon the dead bodies and looted the city where their sister had been defiled. They seized their flocks and herds and donkeys and everything else of theirs in the city and out in the fields. They carried off all their wealth and all the women and children, taking as plunder everything in the houses.

Then Jacob said to SImeon and Levi, "You have brought trouble on me by making me a stench to the Canaanites and Perizzitesthe peopleliving in this land. We are few in number and if they join forces against me and attack me, I and my household will be destroyed.

But they replied, "Should he have treated our sister like a prostitute?"

 

[waterlilyoflife]

This story, I think, is the only explanation for a terrible, cruel discriminating woman-hating law in Deuteronomy.
Deuteronomy 22:28 "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. he must marry her, for he has violated her. he can never divorce her as long has he lives."

I guess that is to prevent a blood bath. I think it would be better to punish the rapist, stone him to death. I wonder if the verse is meant to say seduce, instead of rape. I think they are talking about voluntary pre-marital sex, fornication. Maybe a shotgun wedding. If 2 teens make love and are caught, instead of being stoned for fornication, they have to get married. That's a lot better misogynist abuse, forcing a victim to marry her rapist, so he can rape her every night.

 

[epostle1]

You have to understand that in those days, once a woman was defiled, no man would have her as a wife. Also, it's not a 21 century culture, but thousands of years old. They didn't think the same as we do. Furthermore, it's a punishment on the rapist, not the victim who may otherwise be doomed to a life of destitution.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This story, I think, is the only explanation for a terrible, cruel discriminating woman-hating law in Deuteronomy.
Deuteronomy 22:28 "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. he must marry her, for he has violated her. he can never divorce her as long has he lives."

I guess that is to prevent a blood bath. I think it would be better to punish the rapist, stone him to death. I wonder if the verse is meant to say seduce, instead of rape. I think they are talking about voluntary pre-marital sex, fornication. Maybe a shotgun wedding. If 2 teens make love and are caught, instead of being stoned for fornication, they have to get married. That's a lot better misogynist abuse, forcing a victim to marry her rapist, so he can rape her every night.

The question is, “How can God be a Holy God and allow this to happen?”

I have asked the same question countless time—on the issues that tore at my trust and faith. God knows that a person cannot pick up their cross daily and follow Jesus without trust. I cannot explain trust. I cannot explain faith. It has to be built. God is the only one that can walk you along your spiritual path to working out these hard questions. You are going directly to an issue of rape to disprove God. I also went to difficult verses to disprove God. The Spirit is already guiding you; knowing exactly what passages are difficult for you.

How can God be a Holy God and allow this to happen? What is the answer?

Work through those passages with Him. Confront where you are offended in Him. He will answer your questions.

(Matthew 11: 6) “Blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.”

God has already set your feet on a path to getting past the offensive. He is working it all to your good. Keep pressing in. God knows exactly what you need to heal and fully trust and have faith in Him.

(Deuteronomy 22: 27-29) “For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. (Christ heard her cry, and purchased the damsel) If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." (Those that are His have been bought and paid for. Jesus does not leave us. What you are seeing is man’s evil. Put Jesus at the center, not the evil of man.)

(Deuteronomy 31: 6) “Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.”

​I hope this helps encourage you that God will answer your questions and build your trust. Any work He begins, He will finish.

 

[waterlilyoflife]

So...we live in a modern world where women have rights, people have rights, children have rights, people with dark skin of many different races have rights. And it took us a long time to get there.
Why do preachers talk as if people of oter races and women who protest and march to keep their hard-earned rigts are bad people, like those feminists are so evil and liberal, so corrupt? What is wrong with feminism, some are Christians,
if we want to be treated fair and get paid the same amount for doing the same job, if we want to be equal, which we are, or should be, like we are Satan's servants becasue of this?! If not we will be stuck in the dark ages, or the 1950's, whatever the old republicans want to drag us backward, because they are so afraid of progress? granted, there is a lot of modern stuff that is sinful and evil, but there is also a lot of good. Most sin is ancient and has nothing to do with modern times.

At least in these days rapists and perverts get arrested and locked up in jail or prison. The victims have oppurtunities for counseling, especially at a lot of churches. They can get help for their pain. They can also have boyfriends or husbands who would be understanding of their problems.

I think abortion and homosexuality are wrong, they are sins. But whoever has never sinned may throw the first stone.


Jesus Christ, is the first feminist, I think. He loved women equally. he talked to the woman at the well when it was forbidden in society for men and women to talk to each other, especially if they were strangers. This woman was not pure, and Jesus still cared about her, her husbands, and the man she currently lived with. Reminds me of today where boyfriends/girlfriends live together in sin, thinking they are trying it out .if they want to get married. And Jesus said so wisely when the adulteress was brought to him for judgement, "Whoever has never sinned before may throw the first stone." He loved Mary Magdalene and healed her of her demons, she became a devoted follower of Christ after that. When their brother Lazarus died, Mary and Martha were full of sadness and cried, Jesus was so moved by his friend's tears he cried himself, the shortest sentence in the Bible is "Jesus wept."

 

[dorian37grey]

just thought i would show this ;

from the old testament PSEUDEPIGRAPHA

testament of Job
chapter one verse 5-6

I am you father Job, fully engaged in endurance. But you are a chosen and honored race from the seed of Jacob, the father of your mother.
for i am from the sons of Esau , the brother of Jacob, of whom is your mother Dinah , from whom i begot you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So...we live in a modern world where women have rights, people have rights, children have rights, people with dark skin of many different races have rights. And it took us a long time to get there.
Why do preachers talk as if people of oter races and women who protest and march to keep their hard-earned rigts are bad people, like those feminists are so evil and liberal, so corrupt? What is wrong with feminism, some are Christians,
if we want to be treated fair and get paid the same amount for doing the same job, if we want to be equal, which we are, or should be, like we are Satan's servants becasue of this?! If not we will be stuck in the dark ages, or the 1950's, whatever the old republicans want to drag us backward, because they are so afraid of progress? granted, there is a lot of modern stuff that is sinful and evil, but there is also a lot of good. Most sin is ancient and has nothing to do with modern times.

At least in these days rapists and perverts get arrested and locked up in jail or prison. The victims have oppurtunities for counseling, especially at a lot of churches. They can get help for their pain. They can also have boyfriends or husbands who would be understanding of their problems.

I think abortion and homosexuality are wrong, they are sins. But whoever has never sinned may throw the first stone.


Jesus Christ, is the first feminist, I think. He loved women equally. he talked to the woman at the well when it was forbidden in society for men and women to talk to each other, especially if they were strangers. This woman was not pure, and Jesus still cared about her, her husbands, and the man she currently lived with. Reminds me of today where boyfriends/girlfriends live together in sin, thinking they are trying it out .if they want to get married. And Jesus said so wisely when the adulteress was brought to him for judgement, "Whoever has never sinned before may throw the first stone." He loved Mary Magdalene and healed her of her demons, she became a devoted follower of Christ after that. When their brother Lazarus died, Mary and Martha were full of sadness and cried, Jesus was so moved by his friend's tears he cried himself, the shortest sentence in the Bible is "Jesus wept."

Addressing your question: Why do preachers talk as if people of other races and women who protest and march to keep their hard-earned rights are bad people, like those feminists are so evil and liberal, so corrupt? What is wrong with feminism, some are Christians,

​I can't speak for preachers but for me what is offensive is not the protest but what the protest is trying to accomplish. I do not support abuse of any kind. I would be right there alongside someone protesting human trafficking. But, by what I see or how I interpret liberals, their goals are based off selfishness, selfishness to have it their way, even if it means abusing others to make their point heard. Women have seriously confused what liberation looks like. Liberation does not mean being able to do a man's job and be counted as equal. We were never meant to do a man's job. We do not need to fight to be equal because...the Kingdom is equality. Period.

You are right, Jesus liberated women by extending mercy and forgiveness and grace to them; same as any man.

We have come a long ways in rights and opportunity? but to do what? To leave our children in a daycare at the age of 3 months? For what? Money? To prove we have rights? God did not design family to be that way. He designed for the man to be the leader in strength and love and to provide scriptural nourishment to all those in his household. He designed the mother as a nurturer and caregiver. Does that mean God never intended for women to prosper, thrive, or have great purpose outside of the home? That doesn't mean that at all. You say for the first time we have rights but don't you see...women have fought for the wrong rights. Women have fought for self gain. We have not fought for Christ; The very one that gave women value.

think of the two times Jesus commended Mary because she was NOT serving but rather seeking a relationship, fellowship and true knowledge of Christ. There is no disputing that the bible refers to the Bride of Christ, and that Paul (through inspiration of the Spirit) compares Husband and Wife to Christ and His Church...I don't see Christ asking for the church to coddle Him or pacify Him. Is the Church not supposed to be clothed in strength, strength supplied by her husband. Does the church not fill a vital role as the body of Christ, the church as a caregiver? Yes, you are right in looking back on history and the way women have been treated and feel there is a huge contradiction to what Jesus taught. Women being told to shut up, drained of all strength, ignored, oppressed...that is not what Christ taught. Christ had ALL power and authority but He chose to remove His garment, lay it aside, gird Himself with a towel and wash the feet of His disciples. Christ laid down His life for His Church. The pure love He showed for His church caused a great level of respect from His disciples, respect I believe any man would love to have from his wife. Problem is we are in a vicious cycle. Satan has attacked family. First He puffed up man by instilling a great sense of pride. Pride is an attribute of Satan. Then while men were out, abandoning the needs and nourishment of their families to look good in front of other prideful men...Satan went in for the woman and now she is puffed up and prideful, demanding her way. We are all selfish. Woman thinks of woman. Man thinks of man. Nobody wins. God is equality. God is love. God is unity. God intended for man and woman to flourish together for His purpose and for His will...not for our own will and purpose. When the example is:

Christ thinks of the church.
The church thinks of Christ.

Women have accomplished nothing by taking over a man's role, all we have accomplished is pushing men out of the homes and caused more confusion and breakdown of family. Liberation means having a purpose. We already have that in Christ.

 

[waterlilyoflife]

Addressing your question: Why do preachers talk as if people of other races and women who protest and march to keep their hard-earned rights are bad people, like those feminists are so evil and liberal, so corrupt? What is wrong with feminism, some are Christians,

​I can't speak for preachers but for me what is offensive is not the protest but what the protest is trying to accomplish. I do not support abuse of any kind. I would be right there alongside someone protesting human trafficking. But, by what I see or how I interpret liberals, their goals are based off selfishness, selfishness to have it their way, even if it means abusing others to make their point heard. Women have seriously confused what liberation looks like. Liberation does not mean being able to do a man's job and be counted as equal. We were never meant to do a man's job. We do not need to fight to be equal because...the Kingdom is equality. Period.

You are right, Jesus liberated women by extending mercy and forgiveness and grace to them; same as any man.

We have come a long ways in rights and opportunity? but to do what? To leave our children in a daycare at the age of 3 months? For what? Money? To prove we have rights? God did not design family to be that way. He designed for the man to be the leader in strength and love and to provide scriptural nourishment to all those in his household. He designed the mother as a nurturer and caregiver. Does that mean God never intended for women to prosper, thrive, or have great purpose outside of the home? That doesn't mean that at all. You say for the first time we have rights but don't you see...women have fought for the wrong rights. Women have fought for self gain. We have not fought for Christ; The very one that gave women value.

think of the two times Jesus commended Mary because she was NOT serving but rather seeking a relationship, fellowship and true knowledge of Christ. There is no disputing that the bible refers to the Bride of Christ, and that Paul (through inspiration of the Spirit) compares Husband and Wife to Christ and His Church...I don't see Christ asking for the church to coddle Him or pacify Him. Is the Church not supposed to be clothed in strength, strength supplied by her husband. Does the church not fill a vital role as the body of Christ, the church as a caregiver? Yes, you are right in looking back on history and the way women have been treated and feel there is a huge contradiction to what Jesus taught. Women being told to shut up, drained of all strength, ignored, oppressed...that is not what Christ taught. Christ had ALL power and authority but He chose to remove His garment, lay it aside, gird Himself with a towel and wash the feet of His disciples. Christ laid down His life for His Church. The pure love He showed for His church caused a great level of respect from His disciples, respect I believe any man would love to have from his wife. Problem is we are in a vicious cycle. Satan has attacked family. First He puffed up man by instilling a great sense of pride. Pride is an attribute of Satan. Then while men were out, abandoning the needs and nourishment of their families to look good in front of other prideful men...Satan went in for the woman and now she is puffed up and prideful, demanding her way. We are all selfish. Woman thinks of woman. Man thinks of man. Nobody wins. God is equality. God is love. God is unity. God intended for man and woman to flourish together for His purpose and for His will...not for our own will and purpose. When the example is:

Christ thinks of the church.
The church thinks of Christ.

Women have accomplished nothing by taking over a man's role, all we have accomplished is pushing men out of the homes and caused more confusion and breakdown of family. Liberation means having a purpose. We already have that in Christ.


I agree with you, I think things are worse because children today do not get the nourishment they need from their mothers. There are a lot of "single moms" who have children without a husband, sometimes they have long term live in boyfriends which teaches their children immorality irresponsibility and lust., many of them have short term boyfriends. Children that are very young, toddlers, should be cared for by the mother, it is a very important stage in the
child's life. A lot of women have jobs these days that used to be only man's jobs. I am not able to judge them, I leave it to God to deal with them. Maybe a woman should choose between either a family or career, not try to have both.


I want to get married to Mr. Cute sweet lovable Christian gentleman and have cute kids to play with and nurture their little minds into Bible armored angels who would spread the gospel to all their little friends. I would clean and decorate the house, cook sew and plant a garden around the house with flowers, veggies and fruit trees. It never happened, because it was not God's will. I live with my parents, I am 36 years old, and I never go out on dates, last time I dates was in high school, I was 15. I have been through a lot with mental problems and immaturity, problems with fantasy/sci-fi fondness, I had a thing for dragons, I liked dragons and pretended I was a dragon with role play and it became more in real life I wrote stories where the good dragons fought the evil dragons to save people. I drew pictures of dragons, tried to make them look pretty, with sparkly scales and bright colors. my dragon alter ego was named Seraphina Starfire, she was sapphire and amethyst, later on a peacock dragon. I had a hard time wrestling with my conscience, wrestling with God. I tried to make my dragons good and Christian. I had a story that when Lucifer and the evil, rebellious angels fell from heaven, there were good dragons in heaven he fought on God's side.

But eventually I learned that dragons are a symbol of evil, of violence and tyranny, they are evil spirits like demons, thy are demons and are seducing children, young people, Asians, a lot of people are being tricked into liking dragons, they want these people's souls. The Lord saved me, and told me I should repent. I repented, but it is hard. I remind myself how scared I was a of snakes and alligators as a child. I kept my love for unicorns and fairies. They are imaginary, but they are gentle and good.

I think God wants me to be His artist. He wants me to illustrate the Bible, and work on Christian art. I draw angels, and Jesus, Easter is a great opportunity, I want to draw Jesus on the cross, and being resurrected. I love nature, the natural world is more fascinating than imaginary, supernatural things. God created a beautiful earth that works in a fascinating way. Nature can be cruel and harsh, but it can also be funny, amusing, cute, and beautiful. I've seen nature shows where they prove that animals, mammals, show affection for each other like people do.


Now I have gone completely off subject. There are a lot of womanly arts, which I would like to explore. sewing, making clothes, needlework, cross stitch. Painting of cloth, like batik, decorating with wall paper or stick on designs, a wall paper strip that goes at the top of the wall, painting the walls, sewing a quilt and making bed spreads, pillows, stuff animals, Painting, making pottery, knitting, crochet, lace making, beading, ,making jewelry, making candles and soap, making stationary, origami reading and writing a short story or poem,,making a little book out of special paper, cardboard, making greeting cards out of construction paper, wrapping paper, stamps,

cooking, making jelly or canning vegetables or fruit, growing a garden, press flowers, dry flowers


Have a pet, take care of a pet, but I'm sure a busy mother would not have time todo all these things since she would be busy taking care of a child, running after an energetic toddler would take up most of her time, the rest of her time the mother would probably be napping, to get some rest so she could have more energy to take care of her little ones.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I know the way the world works now, women must work and I am not bashing them because of it. I’m simply saying it wasn’t necessarily an achievement on our part.
I’m so sorry, Waterlilyoflife, I sense your longing to have a family and a home. Your waiting on God instead of picking just any man is admirable. You are in a relationship with God. That is a good place to be.
I can relate to your art. A couple of years ago, I wrote smut. God brought conviction and I walked away. It took a while for Him to get through but once He showed me the devastation pornographic material causes within homes…I agreed with Him and pulled all the books I had written. I tried to keep one. I’d researched sex trafficking for a year to write this book and if I am being honest, I hated to lose that research and time. I tried to rationalize it by saying I was fighting evil with good but the book contained rape. Although I wrote those scenes to bring about awareness of the abuse young girls go through while being groomed by a pimp, I had to ask the question: what if one person finds the content appealing? The truth is, through writing, God has allowed me to experience Him as author. That is a blessing. My husband is an artist/potter/carpenter which has allowed him to experience God in those areas. He sees colors, movement, form and the beauty of God's creation in a way I never will. God gives us all many avenues to explore into knowing Him in a unique way. Sounds like yours is art and creativity in many forms.
​

 

[waterlilyoflife]

Today there are many women working in positions formerly only men could have. Women are doctors, surgeons, psychiatrists, lawyers, judges, politicians, police officers, fire fighters, military officers and soldiers, pilots, engineers scientists, chemists, spies, ministers, preachers, rabbis, athletes, artists, sculptors, metal welders, mechanics, historians, archeologists, every thing you can think of that was once closed and forbidden to women.

You think women having a career is not an achievement?

Women did have careers back in Bible time, but they were few and limited. Have you read Proverbs 31? The wife of Noble Character. She makes clothes, spins and weaves, and makes sashes to sell to merchants, she takes care of her children, she takes care of her servants, she considers a field and buys it, to grow food, she keeps the household in order. When winter comes, her children and servants are clothed warmly in bright colors, scarlet and purple. Her husband is proud of her, he speaks highly of her at the city gates where the townsmen hang out. Her children will honor her and bless her.

So this woman is a fashion designer, well maybe that goes too far. For most of the history women have made their own clothes and the clothes for their family. Women have mostly been involved in the making of clothing. And the Bible warns of fashion excess, people fancy, expensive clothes to not make them beautiful or important, it is the woman's gentle, kind and loving spirit that makes her beautiful.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Today there are many women working in positions formerly only men could have. Women are doctors, surgeons, psychiatrists, lawyers, judges, politicians, police officers, fire fighters, military officers and soldiers, pilots, engineers scientists, chemists, spies, ministers, preachers, rabbis, athletes, artists, sculptors, metal welders, mechanics, historians, archeologists, every thing you can think of that was once closed and forbidden to women.

You think women having a career is not an achievement?

Women did have careers back in Bible time, but they were few and limited. Have you read Proverbs 31? The wife of Noble Character. She makes clothes, spins and weaves, and makes sashes to sell to merchants, she takes care of her children, she takes care of her servants, she considers a field and buys it, to grow food, she keeps the household in order. When winter comes, her children and servants are clothed warmly in bright colors, scarlet and purple. Her husband is proud of her, he speaks highly of her at the city gates where the townsmen hang out. Her children will honor her and bless her.

So this woman is a fashion designer, well maybe that goes too far. For most of the history women have made their own clothes and the clothes for their family. Women have mostly been involved in the making of clothing. And the Bible warns of fashion excess, people fancy, expensive clothes to not make them beautiful or important, it is the woman's gentle, kind and loving spirit that makes her beautiful.

Waterlilyoflife, you made an excellent point and one I can not argue. You are right, women save lives in their careers.

The Proverbs virtuous woman tells of Christ and His bride. There can be no virtuous woman without Christ. Strength and honour are her clothing only because her Husband (Christ) has made it so. There can be no virtuous woman without the righteousness of Christ. A virtuous woman(bride) is non-existent without Him. Christ is the one that praises her (his bride) in the gates. She is a crown upon her Husbands head. He is the Husband known in the gates.

(Numbers 30: 13-16) "Every vow, and every binding oath to afflict the soul, her husband may establish it, or her husband may make it void.
But if her husband altogether hold his peace at her from day to day; then he establisheth all her vows, or all her bonds, which are upon her: he confirmeth them, because he held his peace at her in the day that he heard them. But if he shall any ways make them void after that he hath heard them; then he shall bear her iniquity."

​(Psalm 40: 7) "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,"
(Hebrews 10: 7) "Then said I, Lo, I come(in the volume of the book it is written of me.) to do thy will, O God."