Do We Receive Salvation At Once, When We Said The Sinners Prayer?

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

So, by your illogical logic, Jesus words in Mk 16:16 was not correct and should have been

16He that believeth and is REPENTANT shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Instead of

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So, also by your illogical logic, do you become a member of the body of Christ, the church, upon repentance? Can you repent into Christ?

BUT HE NEVER SAID.... he that is not baptised shall be damned..... did He?

 

[DJT_47]

BUT HE NEVER SAID.... he that is not baptised shall be damned..... did He?

Why would he have to? It's redundant. If you believe, you'll follow through and be obedient. If you don't believe, there's nothing you would do, so, your logic is not sound. It goes without saying that you'll be damned because it's obvious and the logical outcome of disbelief.

 

[DJT_47]

BUT HE NEVER SAID.... he that is not baptised shall be damned..... did He?

What does that mean or are you trying to imply it means? It's very simple when ALL scripture is taken into consideration, and when you do, those that don't believe are still in sin and if so, they are lost, and if lost they are damned! Read the scriptures!

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, This is done as an act of God the moment we trust him. No water is involved.. I was baptized INTO CHRIST, Not into water.

Yes, because we repented. and received the gift of the spirit. On the basis of this gift, and our remission of sin, we are baptized in water..

"Baptized into Christ" does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ, as DJT_47 teaches. That is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) The only "sense" in which a believer would be "water baptized into Christ" is in the same "sense" that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." (1 Corinthians 10:2) The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would only be in that "sense."

Spirit baptism and water baptism are TWO DISTINCT baptisms. Matthew 3:11 - As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Also notice in Matthew 3:11 that "I baptize you with water "for" (eis) repentance.. Well, was this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance or was it for "in regard to/on the basis of repentance? Obviously, the latter. Water baptism is for "in regard to/on the basis" remission of sins received upon repentance.

 

[mailmandan]

BUT HE NEVER SAID.... he that is not baptised shall be damned..... did He?

Amen! Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, by your illogical logic, Jesus words in Mk 16:16 was not correct and should have been

16He that believeth and is REPENTANT shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Instead of

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So, also by your illogical logic, do you become a member of the body of Christ, the church, upon repentance? Can you repent into Christ?

Actually. Mark 16 should actually say what John 3 says, but it does not matter.

1. It is questionable it is even scripture
2. It does not say water baptism. it could mean spirit baptism. which would cause it to agree with John 3.

But you want the bible to contradict. Have fun with that

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why would he have to? It's redundant. If you believe, you'll follow through and be obedient. If you don't believe, there's nothing you would do, so, your logic is not sound. It goes without saying that you'll be damned because it's obvious and the logical outcome of disbelief.

Actually this is false.

If I believe, But am not water baptized. am I damned?

According to you I am..

According to the word. I am not..

who do I trust?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"Baptized into Christ" does not mean water baptized into the body of Christ, as DJT_47 teaches. That is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) The only "sense" in which a believer would be "water baptized into Christ" is in the same "sense" that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." (1 Corinthians 10:2) The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would only be in that "sense."

Spirit baptism and water baptism are TWO DISTINCT baptisms. Matthew 3:11 - As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Also notice in Matthew 3:11 that "I baptize you with water "for" (eis) repentance.. Well, was this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance or was it for "in regard to/on the basis of repentance? Obviously, the latter. Water baptism is for "in regard to/on the basis" remission of sins received upon repentance.

its a part of the interpretors transliteriting the word (baptizo became baptize) and not translating it.

if they did not transliterate it but translated it, we would not be having these arguments.

 

[DJT_47]

Actually. Mark 16 should actually say what John 3 says, but it does not matter.

1. It is questionable it is even scripture
2. It does not say water baptism. it could mean spirit baptism. which would cause it to agree with John 3.

But you want the bible to contradict. Have fun with that

There is one baptism. Eph 4:5-6. And look at the earliest examples of baptism in the NT: Water baptism in the Jordan River. And follow through with baptism throughout the NT and it's clear what that one baptism is. In water.

 

[DJT_47]

Actually. Mark 16 should actually say what John 3 says, but it does not matter.

1. It is questionable it is even scripture
2. It does not say water baptism. it could mean spirit baptism. which would cause it to agree with John 3.

But you want the bible to contradict. Have fun with that

So, Jesus was wrong in your opinion, and he should have said what was said in John 3:16, right? Next time you see him or speak with him (hahaha), make it a point to correct him, eh? What a laugh! Hahaha

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is one baptism. Eph 4:5-6. And look at the earliest examples of baptism in the NT: Water baptism in the Jordan River. And follow through with baptism throughout the NT and it's clear what that one baptism is. In water.

Your right, there is one baptism which saved. but there are a few baptisms.

The baptism of John
Christian baptism
Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Baptism of fire
The jews were baptized into moses.

Your stuck on a word. Everything you see the word baptize you are not to automatically assume water, that would be a grave error Its not even a native english word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, Jesus was wrong in your opinion, and he should have said what was said in John 3:16, right? Next time you see him or speak with him (hahaha), make it a point to correct him, eh? What a laugh! Hahaha

no Jesus was right

13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

now according to you jesus messed up. Because he forgot to use the word baptise in John 3..

 

[DJT_47]

Your right, there is one baptism which saved. but there are a few baptisms.

The baptism of John
Christian baptism
Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Baptism of fire
The jews were baptized into moses.

Your stuck on a word. Everything you see the word baptize you are not to automatically assume water, that would be a grave error Its not even a native english word.

Yes, I'm stuck on the one word because it's the truth that deniers can't undo no matter how hard they try. And I'm aware of the origin of the word "baptism". It's not English, but transliterated from the Greek word 'baptizo', which means to dip, plunge, immerse.

 

[Wick Stick]

Do We Receive Salvation At Once, When We Said The Sinners Prayer?​

4. Other.

The way the question is phrased makes me think that the person asking doesn't quite understand what all the words mean. Salvation is not a gold ticket that admits one person entrance through the pearly gates. Salvation is a state of being - a state of safety that has resulted from a rescue.

When one believes and confesses, they are entered into that state of safety. That isn't the end of the story. From that point onwards, they must take care to KEEP THEMSELVES in that state.

The book Pilgrim's Progress does a good job of illustrating this truth. Once the Pilgrim enters at the gate, there is a path, and he still must stay on that path and not wander off in search of worldly pleasures.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, I'm stuck on the one word because it's the truth that deniers can't undo no matter how hard they try. And I'm aware of the origin of the word "baptism". It's not English, but transliterated from the Greek word 'baptizo', which means to dip, plunge, immerse.

You just made my point for me

Romans 6 says I was immersed INTO CHRIST. and I was immersed INTO HIS DEATH.

See, If it was translated. You could not use the excuse they were trying to say we were immersed in water in romans 6 because you could not even attempt to say it is true.

 

[DJT_47]

You just made my point for me

Romans 6 says I was immersed INTO CHRIST. and I was immersed INTO HIS DEATH.

See, If it was translated. You could not use the excuse they were trying to say we were immersed in water in romans 6 because you could not even attempt to say it is true.

I have no idea what you're attempting to say. Goodbye

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Actually this is false.

If I believe, But am not water baptized. am I damned?

According to you I am..

According to the word. I am not..

who do I trust?

I would trust the baptism of the Holy Spirit over a submersion any day.

 

[marks]

I have no idea what you're attempting to say. Goodbye

I think he's saying that because they transliterated "baptidzo" into "baptism" instead of translating it to "immersion", that when people read, "baptized into Christ" they think "water", but in fact, if translated, there is no reference to water, rather, they are "immersed into Christ".

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

When did you receive your salvation? When you first came to the Lord or at some point later?

They way people talk, even teachers and Pastors, it is at the moment that you prayed and asked forgiveness and made the Lord, Lord of your life.

Here's my theory which is not dogmatic, just a theory. So I encourage you to vote in the poll and then explain your theory (or knowing).

Ok here we go. So a man is in church through invite and he is as yet unsaved and does not know the Lord. But the Holy Spirit is on the Job and is with the Pastor and gives him the words that touch the man's heart and ring true to him. Then the Holy Spirit touches the man also on the shoulder perhaps and says go down front...so the man makes the Altar Call, kneels, prays is refreshed and feels peace in his spirit. He goes home happy. (But has he received Salvation yet? Did the Lord write his name in the book of life yet?

But when the man gets home from church his live in girlfriend is there and so the man says wow babe, Got saved at church today! The GF says, that's cool, I got some cocaine while you were gone, wanna have some fun? So he does because that's what they did yesterday and he knows that he cant go all hardcore Jesus freak on her about it because that would create strife, and she already wants him to put that church stuff behind him and get back to the pleasures of life. The marriage thing is already in her mind and she knows that because they're not married that she would lose her happy home if the man gets serious about the Lord! Women are quick like that. So the man has a lot to think about and doesnt want to start an argument, so...I'll be with her now and study the bible some later. So he does.

But is he really saved already? I dont think so. Scripture says to seek the Lord and to study and show thyself approved and to pray unceasingly. Scripture also says that Obediance is rewarded both here on earth and in the world to come. It says, And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:2)

So doesnt the man have to do these things to receive salvation? We get transformed by the renewing of our mind. How do we do that? Has he been seeking the Lord yet? Going to church from an invite is a social thing, he wasnt seeking the Lord. The man accepted the truth he heard and Holy Spirit's invite, but he wasnt seeking the Lord. Even so, the man was moved to receive Jesus as Lord of his life. He went through the motions but has done nothing to seek the Lord, and then went back home and fell right back into the world. Scripture talks about robbers sneaking in not through the gate but by some other way. If this man continues to call himself a christian after that because of what happened...is he really? If the man continues to live for his flesh in the world is he one of the robbers that scripture speaks of? Of the ones that will say, but Lord didnt we prophecy in thy name and Jesus will say, I never knew you. Did you read my book to you? Did you ever visit me? Have we met before? Cont...,

Where is this sinners prayer in the Bible?

 

[mailmandan]

There is one baptism. Eph 4:5-6. And look at the earliest examples of baptism in the NT: Water baptism in the Jordan River. And follow through with baptism throughout the NT and it's clear what that one baptism is. In water.

There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37 for the word drink(s).