Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[LoveofTruth]

No. Peter was baptizing in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ as instructed and this also involved the receiving of the gift of the Spirit.
John's baptism did not include these two elements.

Peter, had the right words about being baptized in or into(or immersed into) the name of Jesus Christ. But he still added water from Johns water baptism to it. We know that Pete was still thinking of Johns water baptism, because in Acts 11 Jesus reminded him of John baptized [past tense] with water, but they should be baptized with the Holy Ghost. I see Peter being instructed to not need to follow Johns water baptism. God was showing that the gentiles did not need to go through this and come under the law and then come back out of t again. The Jewish believers were still in a time of reformation and transition, so it would not make sense to bring the Gentiles into that which the Jewish believers were to come out of.

Also God showed Peter that he had already saved the Gentile Cornelius and others, for he showed that they received the Holy Ghst as they did and Peter even mentions in Acts 15 that the Gentiles were saved by the grace of God even as they were and he was critical of trying t bring them under bondage and the law which they themselves could not keep.

But the expression to baptize (or immerse into) the NAME of Jesus Christ is a deep thing. Paul said what ever we do in word or deed to do all in the name of Jesus Christ. This is not merely a form of repeated words in every thing we do. No to be immersed into the name is to be immersed into the character, power authority, life and virtue of that name. Jesus also spoke of keeping the believers in the Father name and manifesting His name to them as we read

"John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."

The name also is far deeper than we have considered.

18:10 "The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe."

How do you run into the name? and how does this save us?

You also spoke of Matthew 28 about the teaching all nations baptizing them in the name of the father, the Son and the Holy Ghost as being the one name Jesus Christ. I don't see this here. That thinking you used is the same as the Oneness groups use for that section and that is a Jesus only teaching. The Son is not the Father or the Holy Ghost, but yet these three are one God.This again gets into the Trinity doctrine.

The baptism into Jesus Christ or in or into the name is the baptism all believers have and we see that this is a spiritual thing for we read of all baptized in this way to put on Christ and immersed into the body of Christ by the Spirit (1 Cor 12:13)

consider

3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

So when Peter said to repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. That is immersed into jesus Christ by faith. Only through faith in the blood of Christ can we have remission of sins. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission. There are other verses about remission of sins and how we are washed from our sins in his own blood if you check my past comments.

It would seem that Peter and many believing Jews were still following many aspects of the law and OT and Johns water baptism they had been doing for a long time as they ministered with Jesus. But Jesus himself baptized none. They were already use to following Johns water baptism and to say that they now made a new water baptism in Jesus name, does not seem to fit the struggle they had with the OT as we see all through Acts, or the fact that Peter remembered the words of Jesus when he was with the gentiles.I believe Peter had the right words, but how he applied them was the issue and how they applied many things they did was an issue. For example many believing Jews, James included and even Paul going along with them would have had animals sacrifices. But Jesus one sacrifice was all that was needed, yet they still allowed animal sacrifices. So they type did not always go away. Perhaps that was the reason for the book of Hebrews and Galatians etc. To give revelation of these things.

 

[LoveofTruth]

You are STILL... trying to equate water baptism under The New Covenant with the old covenant ritual washings. THAT WILL NOT WORK.

Those who believe on Jesus Christ are to be water baptized just as the New Testament Scriptures commanded, and that I have shown. ANYWHERE you read about the command or even DESIRE to be water baptized (like the eunuch) and it is AFTER Christ's death and resurrection, that is PER The New Covenant, not the old!

Thus you are grossly confused with your attempt to preach against water baptism.

The Jewish believers were from Acts 2 still going to the temple and under the law and customs and zealous for the law for a long time after Christ death. This is clearly seen in Acts 2, 10, 15, and 21 etc. Thousands of Jews were still keeping the law and customs of the Jews and sacrificing animals. They were still under the diverse washings and carnal ordinances imposed on them until the time of reformation. But they did not need to do these things and these things such a carnal ordinances and diverse washings could never make them clean or perfect as pertaining to the conscience, only the blood of Christ through the eternal Spirit could do that. This was a big issue in the early church and Paul spoke of this often. Jesus even told them that he had many things to say and to judge of them but they could not bear them at that time. But when the Holy Ghost had come he would guide them into all truth. This took time. And they could not go against their consciences for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Consider

9:8 "The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."

These diverse washings were more specifically the man washings under the law, full submersions etc. But the word "diverse" washings can apply as well as any carnal ordinances, to anything that is similar for Israel under the law or as done towards them under the Old Testament. Johns water baptism for example can also be applied here to Israel for it was for them under the law and it was a diverse washing and a carnal ordnance. The word "diverse" means, varying or various , kinds.

So the water baptism they did, along with the animal sacrifices and circumcision and keeping the whole law and customs and temple system with the priest etc were still connected to the Old Covenant and the believers were still struggling with the, Peter included (Acts 10, Galatians 2 etc), with James and the elders and the thousands of believing Jews. as we see here

"21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

We also know that Peter was still following in some regards Johns water baptism. For when he was baptizing the Gentiles he remembered the words of the Lord how John baptized with water but they should be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Why did he think of this water baptism of John and the past tense of it that Jesus spoke when he was baptizing the gentiles, who had already been saved and filled were given the Holy Ghost as they had been and were saved by grace as they were? Because Jesus was most likely guiding Him through the Spirit to understand these things and that the gentiles were not to go under the Jewish program or the time of reformation and transition they were in.

 

[LoveofTruth]

To all:

when Jesus said that John indeed baptized with water, but...

he was not speaking of words men say while baptizing with water, such as "in Jesus name" or "for repentance" etc or whatever might have been said. He was specifying the baptism, (immersion) in water. the water part was what defined the baptism, not the specific words used. The baptism with the Holy Ghost was in contrast to the water baptism of John as Jesus said in Acts 1. Something to consider. Because some might try to make it a whole different baptism from John's water baptism based on words said at the water baptism. but Jesus is defining the baptism , not by the word s spoken but by the water or the Spirit. It would still be a baptism with water no matter what words were said. But this is a different baptism than that of the Spirit as clearly the text shows. And the baptism into Jesus Christ where we re in Christ and putting on Christ is by the Spirit at salvation. This is the grace of God that we enter INTO by faith.

 

[LoveofTruth]

No. Peter was baptizing in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ as instructed and this also involved the receiving of the gift of the Spirit.
John's baptism did not include these two elements.

when Jesus said that John indeed baptized with water, but...

he was not speaking of words men say while baptizing with water, such as "in Jesus name" or "for repentance" etc or whatever might have been said. He was specifying the baptism, (immersion) in water. the water part was what defined the baptism, not the specific words used. The baptism with the Holy Ghost was in contrast to the water baptism of John as Jesus said in Acts 1. Something to consider. Because some might try to make it a whole different baptism from John's water baptism based on words said at the water baptism. but Jesus is defining the baptism , not by the word s spoken but by the water or the Spirit. It would still be a baptism with water no matter what words were said. But this is a different baptism than that of the Spirit as clearly the text shows. And the baptism into Jesus Christ where we re in Christ and putting on Christ is by the Spirit at salvation. This is the grace of God that we enter INTO by faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Peter, had the right words about being baptized in or into(or immersed into) the name of Jesus Christ. But he still added water from Johns water baptism to it.

Brother:

First, if Peter said the correct words then this actually demolishes your belief.

Acts of the Apostles 2:38 says:

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”​

So if the word “baptized” in this above verse means “Spirit baptism” or “being immersed into the Spirit” then why is Peter telling them that they will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost? The gift of the Holy Ghost is the receiving of the Holy Spirit Himself (As the gift). In other words, it would be like saying repent and be immersed into the Spirit so you can receive the Spirit (which is a gift). Peter is saying to do certain things and then you receive the Spirit.

So this is how see your interpretation in Acts of the Apostles 2:38:

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized [be immersed into the Spirit] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost [shall be immersed into the Spirit].”​

So Peter would be saying, be immersed into the Spirit so you can be immersed into the Spirit. That statement does not make any sense.

Note 1: The words in blue brackets is a commentary to the text (to show how I see your interpretation so far, and how it does not work).

Note 2: If you have to change your interpretation or update it, then this merely shows that you are not letting the text speak for itself.

Second, your above words I quoted here that you provided are not words found in the Bible. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
Faith does not ultimately come by hearing words outside of Scripture.
This is where we disagree because you said, “The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture alone.”

The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

So unless you can establish this truth with Scripture it cannot stand or have any merit, just as those in other religions try to add words to God’s Holy Word (like Catholics, JW’s, Mormons, etcetera). Granted, I am not saying you are doing so on the exceptionally wrong level that they are. But your words here are still an addition to Scripture, my friend. We can hypothesize on what could have happened as a possibility but to say it as fact with it being on the same level of God’s Word is to add to God’s Word (Which I believe is a dangerous thing to do - Revelation 22:18, 1 Kings 13:11-30).

We know that Pete was still thinking of Johns water baptism, because in Acts 11 Jesus reminded him of John baptized [past tense] with water, but they should be baptized with the Holy Ghost. I see Peter being instructed to not need to follow Johns water baptism. God was showing that the gentiles did not need to go through this and come under the law and then come back out of t again.

Again, you are reading between the lines (or adding something to God’s Word that is not there). To receive the apostles means they were receiving Jesus (Matthew 10:40). If the apostles were in error in some way in their teaching on water baptism then that would reflect back upon the Lord Jesus Christ. As for Acts of the Apostles 11:16:

Acts of the Apostles 11:16 says:

“Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said,
John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.”​

Okay. Here is something to consider:

#1. God communicated directly with the apostles many times in the New Testament.
#2. If the apostles were in error, then why did God not say anything to them about it?
#3. The teaching you propose is not clear in New Testament Scripture and so many believers throughout time again can water baptize in the name of Jesus (if they don’t have your special revelation that is outside of Scripture). Remember, faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). This would be Scripture or the Bible today. For men have received many revelations through history but the Word of God stands forever.

So is Jesus saying that there is no baptism in water anymore because John baptized with water and they shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost?

No. Jesus was referring to a specific event of the apostles being baptized into the Spirit which was at Pentecost. The apostles were already water baptized and their next baptism needed to be into the Spirit (Which would take place at Pentecost). Jesus was comparing the two baptisms and how they would be different (so they could recognize the upcoming Pentecost event). Jesus was not saying that they were to no longer water baptize and the Spirit would now baptize them. Jesus was referring specifically to disciples at the Pentecost event and he was not referring to future believers (like us). The problem is making all instructions given to the disciples apply to us when sometimes they were just to disciples alone at that point in time.

The Jewish believers were still in a time of reformation and transition, so it would not make sense to bring the Gentiles into that which the Jewish believers were to come out of.

After examining Acts 21 some more and reading various Christian write ups on it, and meditating upon it (in light of the truth of God’s Word), I have come to the conclusion that the Jewish Christians were in a time of reformation. But I don’t believe they were doing those things within the Law for salvation (Except for one particular sect of Jewish believers - Acts of the Apostles 15:1). As stated by a particular Christian, the book of Hebrews was a book to tell the Jewish believers to stop being Hebrews.

But this again does not prove that water baptism in the name of Jesus was a part of the Old Law because there is no specific verse that says that baptism in the name of Jesus was a problem or that it was something the Lord did not want the apostles doing. As I said before, God was communicating directly with them. Even up until Acts 23, we see Jesus is still talking to Paul. So why wouldn’t the Lord make this fact clear to him (whereby he would make it clear to others)? It just doesn’t add up.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Jewish believers were from Acts 2 still going to the temple…

They went to the temple because Jesus said for them to not leave Jerusalem. If the Lord Jesus wanted them to stay away from temples, He would have chosen a city or place that did not have one.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Only through faith in the blood of Christ can we have remission of sins. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission. There are other verses about remission of sins and how we are washed from our sins in his own blood if you check my past comments.

While we do need to have faith in His blood for salvation (Romans 3:25), that is not the only requirement as a part of God’s plan of salvation.
Even 1 John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 1:7

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
​

Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So if a believer is not loving their brother, they are not walking in the light whereby the blood of Jesus will cleanse them from all sin. So it’s not just a belief alone in the blood that saves. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the many verses that refutes Belief Alone Salvationism. What do you do with passages like Hebrews 12:14, Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13, Luke 19:27, and Revelation 22:14-15? It seems like one has to constantly duck and dodge at every turn the Bible in order to make Protestant Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism work. It just speaks against so many verses in the Bible. While we are born again and we have a new heart with new desires, it does not mean our free will is no longer. God does not force us to be mindless slave puppets. Yes, I know you said before that we are not robotrons, but then you appear to backtrack on this point. The Bible tells us to continue in the faith, continue in God’s grace, continue in His goodness, and to keep ourselves in the love of God. We have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We have to fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life. These statements would not exist in Scripture if things are as you say, my friend.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But the expression to baptize (or immerse into) the NAME of Jesus Christ is a deep thing. Paul said what ever we do in word or deed to do all in the name of Jesus Christ. This is not merely a form of repeated words in every thing we do. No to be immersed into the name is to be immersed into the character, power authority, life and virtue of that name. Jesus also spoke of keeping the believers in the Father name and manifesting His name to them as we read

"John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."

The name also is far deeper than we have considered.

18:10 "The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe."

How do you run into the name? and how does this save us?

There is no reason to doubt God’s Word in that we are to literally baptize in water in the name of Jesus. For example: We do learn that the apostles literally did speak the name of the Lord in casting out demons. For when Jewish exorcists tried to copy the apostles they failed.

Acts of the Apostles 19:13-16

“Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.”​

You also spoke of Matthew 28 about the teaching all nations baptizing them in the name of the father, the Son and the Holy Ghost as being the one name Jesus Christ. I don't see this here. That thinking you used is the same as the Oneness groups use for that section and that is a Jesus only teaching. The Son is not the Father or the Holy Ghost, but yet these three are one God.This again gets into the Trinity doctrine.

I am strongly against Modalism or Oneness groups that deny the Trinity.
The Lord our God is one God, and yet He also exists as three distinct persons (Father, Word, and Holy Ghost).

But again, Christians are monotheists (in that they believe in one God), and they don’t believe in Tritheism (three separate gods). When the disciples asked to see the Father, He rebuked the disciples because the Father was in Him already. Colossians 2:9 says the fulness of the Godhead (Trinity) dwells within Him (Jesus) bodily. Philippians 2:9 says that the name above all names is Jesus. If fact, when everyone will one day confess that Jesus is LORD, it will be to the glory of God the Father (Note: There is that saying of the name of Jesus again). Also, Jesus is called the Everlasting Father. Granted, Jesus is not the person of God the Father, but there is a close connection between all the persons of the Godhead in such a way that they all exist together as one God and they not three separate gods. So when we talk about Jesus, we are talking about the Triune God because Jesus is not entirely separate from God the Father and the Spirit whereby (they are each separate gods). We never see the apostles baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and we see them baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus does not say baptize in the names (plural), but name (singular). This would be Jesus because that is what we see the apostles do. While there are more metaphorical uses of the name of the Lord (of which we can tell by the context), I don’t believe this is the case because the Lord’s name is actually tied to a physical practice. You need a Scripture verse to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they did not literally water baptize in the name of Jesus. This is the most natural way to read such verses. No offense, brother: But I believe it is only when we don’t like what the Bible says or we want to appear more knowledgeable than others that we may attempt to seek to change the plain meaning of such things in God’s Word.

This is just the testimony of Scripture we see.

Acts 2:28 – be baptized…in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 8:16 – baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 10:48 – baptized in the name of the Lord.​

Acts 19:5 – baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.​

One either believes these verses, or they don’t believe it.
It’s ironic that while One-Pentecostals are in error for believing in God the wrong way, but they get the baptism in the name of the Lord thing done correctly. I believe we are living in the last days and many just don’t like what the Word of God says. They seek to be their own authority over what the Word says. Granted, I am not saying I am infallible or I know everything perfectly in God’s Word. But I am willing to change if I see a verse or passage contradict what I believe. In fact, here is a list of the 20 theological things I changed involving my growing knowledge of God’s Word. Many today are not willing to do change like this. Most will just look at some false group and say…

“Oh, yeah. Those guys believe that way and so it must be false.” ​

But “guilt by association” is not always true. Looking to some false religion handbook is not how we build our faith. We build our faith based on the Bible itself. We are all going to have to stand before the Lord Jesus Christ and explain why we believed the way we do. But I think we better be sure we are using Scripture and not our own thinking to back up what we believe the Bible actually says. If our belief is based on loosely connecting a few out of context verses than I think that is not a proper belief to have. We also have to look to the fruit of a particular belief we hold to, as well. Is our teaching others a particular belief leading them to live holy and good lives? Are they believing all of Scripture? Or are they seeking to change certain things they don’t like? I believe there is power in our believing and obeying God’s Word (and by continuing to keep putting the Word on the inside of us). So the fruit should prove whether we are believing correctly or not. For example: Paul said he could not overcome certain sins while still under the Old Law in Romans 7:14-24. Christians need to walk after the Spirit under the New Covenant way to overcome sin and bring forth good fruit unto God.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Brother:

First, if Peter said the correct words then this actually demolishes your belief.

Hello, God bless brother,

No Peters words do not demolish my belief from scripture in Christ.As I shall show here. There is alot of misunderstanding I find when discussing spiritual matters. And the baptism in the name of jesus Christ or into Jesus Christ is perhaps one of the most profound deeply spiritual aspects of our faith. To have Jesus Christ dwell in our hearts and we in him and to be immersed into Jesus Christ and His name ( character, virtue, authority, power and life) is all important. To dunk under water following the OT diverse washings and carnal ordinances is not this saving baptism that Jesus and peter speak of.

So if the word “baptized” in this above verse means “Spirit baptism” or “being immersed into the Spirit” then why is Peter telling them that they will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost? The gift of the Holy Ghost is the receiving of the Holy Spirit Himself (As the gift).

No, I did not say that. I have been saying all along that the baptism (immersion) into Jesus Christ is the saving baptism. This is done by the Spirit as we are immersed into one body that being the body of Christ, when we are born again. Jesus is the head of the body and we are parts of the body. Jesus Christ works effectually in every part of the body (Ephesians 4:15,16 KJV) as we are in him and he in us. Without him we can do nothing,(John 15 KJV). It is the Holy Ghost that baptizes us into Christ. The expression baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, is the saving aspect of Gods grace that we ENTER INTO BY FAITH (Romans 5). When we are in the name of Jesus Christ we are in Jesus Christ, baptized into him. Then Jesus will baptize us with the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is only given ( as I understand) through the name of jesus Christ and when we are in that name, or in Jesus Christ . For by one Spirit are we ALL baptized into one body. This is the one baptism ALL must have.

But, Paul uses this exact language about being baptized into Christ and putting on Christ, this is not talking about water baptism as I have been trying to show, consider

3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."
3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."(Galatians 3:26,27 KJV)

Rom 6:3 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

So this is how see your interpretation in Acts of the Apostles 2:38:

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized [be immersed into the Spirit] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost [shall be immersed into the Spirit].”​

So Peter would be saying, be immersed into the Spirit so you can be immersed into the Spirit. That statement does not make any sense.

No, that is not what I'm saying, you are adding your thoughts to what you are thinking I'm saying.

It would be more like this (the brackets are my comments as you did.

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized [be immersed into Jesus Christ and His name, or character, life authority and virtue etc) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ [in the character, life authority and power of Jesus Christ by the Spirit] for the remission of sins,[which remission of sins comes only through the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ and through faith in that blood, he washed us from our sins in His own blood] and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost [then Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Ghost, you first have to have Jesus Christ in you and you in him, immersed into Jesus Christ, like drinking the water of life then the power of the Spirit comes and like water bubbling up from within you will be baptized with the Holy Ghost and receive power].”

And remember Jesus speaks of keeping the believers in the name of the father. What do you think he means when he says he kept them in the fathers name and he manifested the name of the Father to them? To be kept IN the name, is a profound truth.

Prov 18:10 "The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe."

Faith does not ultimately come by hearing words outside of Scripture.
This is where we disagree because you said, “The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture alone.”

The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

So did Abraham have faith without the scriptures being written yet? Yes, he did, and so did many others. The seed is the word of God sown in the hearts of those who come to the Light. This inner life is Christ in them. We read that Abraham had Christ in him in Galatians 3 and other places. The word is nigh unto all in their hearts (Deut. 30 and Romans 10, and many other verses)and God is not far from every one of us. The true Light still lighteth every man that cometh into the world John1:9 KJV

consider

Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."

But this is a long deep discussion of the mystery that hath been hod from ages. I speak a bit on this in the study you posted about the Rule of Faith and practice is not scripture alone.

Note also that I did not say we disregard scripture. I said the to live in Christ the new creation and to be born again with God working in us to will and to do, is the primary rule of faith and practice. Then we can understand the scriptures that were given by the Spirit. The natural man does not understand the scriptures aright as we read in 1 Cor 2.

 

[LoveofTruth]

While we do need to have faith in His blood for salvation (Romans 3:25), that is not the only requirement as a part of God’s plan of salvation.
Even 1 John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 1:7

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
​

Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So if a believer is not loving their brother, they are not walking in the light whereby the blood of Jesus will cleanse them from all sin. So it’s not just a belief alone in the blood that saves. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the many verses that refutes Belief Alone Salvationism. What do you do with passages like Hebrews 12:14, Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13, Luke 19:27, and Revelation 22:14-15? It seems like one has to constantly duck and dodge at every turn the Bible in order to make Protestant Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism work. It just speaks against so many verses in the Bible. While we are born again and we have a new heart with new desires, it does not mean our free will is no longer. God does not force us to be mindless slave puppets. Yes, I know you said before that we are not robotrons, but then you appear to backtrack on this point. The Bible tells us to continue in the faith, continue in God’s grace, continue in His goodness, and to keep ourselves in the love of God. We have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We have to fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life. These statements would not exist in Scripture if things are as you say, my friend.

I , like you believe a believer can have an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, This heart get hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. We come into Gods kingdom through faith and grace, belief. But we can depart from God through "unbelief" not works. The sinful things can harden our heart and deceive us as scripture shows. No we are not robotrons, but we in Christ follow the leading of the Spirit, we do the will of God.

3:12 "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God."
3:13 "But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."

But again they did not come into Christ by any works of the flesh or carnal ordinances, or water baptism etc, or circumcision or Mosaic law etc.
It was by faith they entered into the grace that saves. Then in that grace they must abide in Christ and walk in the light as God wrks in them to make them perfect unto every good work, working in them that which is well pleasing through Jesus Christ. The new man can do all things in Christ. But these works we do are how we show our faith, not how we get faith. These works are for rewards and manifest the love of God in the life of Christ. But as fruit from a tree that is already risen and grown, the fruit is simply a manifestation of a good tree. A good tree produces good fruit. If we abide in Christ and die daily picking up our cross and lose our life, walking and yielding to the Spirit we live. It is through the Spirit that we mortify the deeds of the body and this inner working continues in us through Christ as we sow to the spirit and not the flesh . Sowing to the spirit is as we walk and live daily in the word of God that is sown in our hearts and as we are led by the spirit. These works are not from the old man. They can only be done in Christ in the new man. Anyway this is a 45 hour discussion and the scripture has much to say about the faith and grace we live and move in as we walk in the spirit. But who is he that overcomes the world?

5:4 "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."
5:5 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

So you should ask how do we overcome the world by being born again and how does faith overcome the world?

Well, I have spoken of this before. Christ dwells in our heart by faith. And if he is in us and we in him we ( or rather the new man) in Christ can do all things through Christ which strengthens us. How this happens is another long discussion and all these things we are speaking of are deeply spiritual things and are wonderful mysteries in the kingdom of God and in Christ working in us.

Ephesians 3:16-20 KJV) That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,"

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hello, God bless brother,

Good morning, brother.
May God bless you, as well.
I hope all is going well for you in the Lord.
Anyways, to get down to the matter at hand:

There is alot of misunderstanding I find when discussing spiritual matters.

Yes, sometimes we can only guess as to what another believes. Sometimes we get it right and other times we get it wrong. Thank you for taking the time in explaining your beliefs in light of the Scriptures (even though I may not agree with every single of one of them exactly).

And the baptism in the name of jesus Christ or into Jesus Christ is perhaps one of the most profound deeply spiritual aspects of our faith. To have Jesus Christ dwell in our hearts and we in him and to be immersed into Jesus Christ and His name ( character, virtue, authority, power and life) is all important.

I agree with this above statement.

To dunk under water following the OT diverse washings and carnal ordinances is not this saving baptism that Jesus and peter speak of.

As I am sure you are aware, I would see this as the ritual washings and ordinances done under the Old Covenant, and John’s water baptism, but I do not see this as referring to water baptism done in the name of Jesus (of which the apostles clearly practiced).

I have been saying all along that the baptism (immersion) into Jesus Christ is the saving baptism. This is done by the Spirit as we are immersed into one body that being the body of Christ, when we are born again. Jesus is the head of the body and we are parts of the body. Jesus Christ works effectually in every part of the body (Ephesians 4:15,16 KJV) as we are in him and he in us. Without him we can do nothing,(John 15 KJV). It is the Holy Ghost that baptizes us into Christ. The expression baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, is the saving aspect of Gods grace that we ENTER INTO BY FAITH (Romans 5).

Well, placing our differences on Acts of the Apostles 2:38 aside for the moment, I would agree with these above words and it is a beautiful truth indeed. We are baptized into Christ and the whole church (i.e. one body) by the Holy Spirit according to 1 Corinthians 12:13. Then, Matthew 3:11 says Jesus baptizes us into the Holy Spirit.

When we are in the name of Jesus Christ we are in Jesus Christ, baptized into him. Then Jesus will baptize us with the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is only given ( as I understand) through the name of jesus Christ and when we are in that name, or in Jesus Christ . For by one Spirit are we ALL baptized into one body. This is the one baptism ALL must have.

I can see how we can be immersed in the name of Jesus as you say, but I also see that the apostles simply water baptized others by speaking vocally the name “Jesus Christ.” (Just as the apostles would invoke the name vocally “Jesus Christ” when casting out demons, or just as all will confess that “Jesus is Lord” to the glory of God the Father).

But yes. I agree, we are first baptized spiritually into Jesus Christ by the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13), and then we are baptized spiritually into the Holy Spirit by Jesus (Matthew 3:11). The Lord Jesus Christ will also baptize us with fire (Matthew 3:11). I see this as a part of the Sanctification Process over the course of our lives as believers to live a holy life and or as different testings of our faith by the Lord to refine us and to purge the branch to bring forth more fruit. As the silversmith uses fire to purge the dross from the precious metal, so the Lord seeks to remove sin from a believer’s life (Psalm 66:10; Proverbs 17:3). His fire cleanses and refines.

But, Paul uses this exact language about being baptized into Christ and putting on Christ, this is not talking about water baptism as I have been trying to show, consider

3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."
3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."(Galatians 3:26,27 KJV)

Rom 6:3 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

While I am not discounting that the words “baptize, baptism, etcetera” can have different meanings, I think we have to look at how a word generally appears in the Bible to consider how most in the early church understood these words. Based on a search at PureBibleSearch (A King James Bible search website), we can see the following results.

(Continued in next post):

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@LoveofTruth

(Continued from previous post):

Source:
King James Pure Bible Search WebChannel Server

Okay. So looking at all of the instances of the words “baptize, baptism, etcetera” we can see that these words generally overall have a meaning to be water baptized. God knowing that we were not around in that day, we would have to rely heavily on Scripture (the Holy Bible) and the Anointing to understand it (After being born again). Like good Bereans: We would have to carefully compare Scripture with Scripture in order to gain a proper understanding of what baptism as a whole meant and carefully examine each instance these words appear based on the context and based on other cross references.

You mentioned Galatians 3:26-27.

Galatians 3:26-27 says:

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ
have put on Christ.”​

Notice the part in verse 27 that says, “have put on Christ.”
Lets look at a similar passage that says this.

Romans 13:12-14

“The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.”​

As we can see in this above passage, this is not some kind of inward thing alone that God does alone for us (without our cooperation or participation). We can see that we are to cast off the works of darkness (sin), and put on the armor of light (righteous living) and we are to put on (cloth yourselves in) the Lord Jesus Christ so as not to make provision for the lusts of the flesh. Meaning, we are to take up our cross, deny ourselves, and follow Jesus (Matthew 16:24). For they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24). This crucification of Christ in our lives will of course be by faith in the Son of God (Galatians 2:20). In other words, Romans 13:14 uses the phrase “put on Christ” as in something we must do. So the baptism in Galatians 3:26-27 if we are to be consistent with Scripture means that this baptism into Christ is our being water baptized in the name of Jesus (Which is also something we must do because the apostles had done so with many after the resurrection - with no rebuke or correction from the Lord our God).

As for your mention of Romans 6:3:

Romans 6:3-7 says:

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”​

Paul says:

#1. We have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death.
#2. We shall also be in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.

LIKENESS = something that is similar or a comparison to. It does not mean the exactness but it is a picture or parallel.

Paul is saying that our baptism into Christ is like unto Christ’s death.
Paul is saying that our walking in newness of life (walking righteously) is like unto the resurrection.

Walking righteously or walking in newness of life (Something we do physically here upon this earth by the power of God) is compared to that which is spiritual (i.e. the resurrection of Jesus Christ).

Therefore, we must conclude also that this “baptism into Christ” is also something we must do here upon this Earth seeing it is compared to the spiritual aspect of Christ dying for man’s sins and crucifying the old man (Which should match up with the parallel of walking in newness of life is a LIKE comparison of the resurrection).

Water baptism is the picture or symbol that points to the inward reality.

For I see verses 6-7 that moves beyond the symbol and talks about the inward reality,

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,…”
​

(Note: I will attempt to reply to your other words - Lord willing):

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, that is not what I'm saying, you are adding your thoughts to what you are thinking I'm saying.

My apologies for concluding the wrong thing about what you believe. Based on what you said it did not make sense from the limited information I had. I am still trying to figure out the full scope of what you believe. But thank you for clarifying.

It would be more like this (the brackets are my comments as you did.

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized [be immersed into Jesus Christ and His name, or character, life authority and virtue etc) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ [in the character, life authority and power of Jesus Christ by the Spirit] for the remission of sins,[which remission of sins comes only through the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ and through faith in that blood, he washed us from our sins in His own blood] and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost [then Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Ghost, you first have to have Jesus Christ in you and you in him, immersed into Jesus Christ, like drinking the water of life then the power of the Spirit comes and like water bubbling up from within you will be baptized with the Holy Ghost and receive power].”

Brother:

This sounds like two baptisms you are describing here and not just one. While I may not agree with your interpretation on Acts of the Apostles 2:38, I do agree with these two spiritual baptisms. But I actually see it as three major spiritual baptisms (that God does in our lives - if we cooperate with Him by faith), and not just two (Unless I am not getting the full scope of what you believe again).

#1. The Spirit baptizes the believer into one body (A baptism into Christ and the church) (1 Corinthians 12:13), and that in turn leads to:

#2. Jesus baptizing us into the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11), and that in turn leads to:

#3. Jesus baptizing us with fire over the whole course of our life (i.e. Jesus tests our faith, and refines us to live a holy life) (Matthew 3:11).​

In other words, if you believe in two or three spiritual baptisms, then how can you interpret the one baptism mentioned in Ephesians 4:5 as being a singular spiritual baptism only? Can believers who live out their faith be without the baptism of the Spirit or without the baptism of fire?

Anyways, whether you agree or not, may the Lord bless you and your family, and be at peace always in the Lord giving you strength to do His will mightily (Glorifying God’s grace and love).

Side Note:

Luke 12:50 says,

“But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!”​

So there is a baptism that represents death, as well. For Jesus was referring to His death upon the cross in this verse. We also must die to ourselves and live unto God. So we must also partake of this baptism unto death, too.

2 Corinthians 4:10

“Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.”​

This is another baptism. But I believe the one baptism is the main one that all believers had partaken of in the early church, which was water baptism in the name of Jesus. This is the one baptism we are to do because the context of Ephesians 4:5 supports what we must do and not what God does. The baptism into his death (We are to partake in our whole lives and not just in our water baptism) is more hidden in it’s meaning.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I , like you believe a believer can have an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, This heart get hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. We come into Gods kingdom through faith and grace, belief.

I agree with what you stated above here.

But we can depart from God through "unbelief" not works. The sinful things can harden our heart and deceive us as scripture shows. No we are not robotrons, but we in Christ follow the leading of the Spirit, we do the will of God.

The Bible teaches that it is more than simply unbelief that can separate a believer from God. Jesus warned how certain sins can destroy our souls in hellfire and or lead to condemnation in the afterlife (See: Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, etcetera).

As for works:

Well, the Bible describes two different types of works.

#1. Works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11), and:

#2. Works of the Laws of Moses (Galatians 3:10).​

The Bible also describes how:

#1. We are saved initially by God’s grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:5), and then afterwards we must learn:

#2. God has chosen us to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13).
​

There is a difference between…

#1. Works of faith done in the Sanctification Process of the Spirit after we are saved by God’s grace (without works).

vs.​

#2. Works ALONE Salvationism (Without God’s grace) (Which is what the heresy of what I call, “Circumcision Salvationism” - See: Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24, and Galatians 5:2, Galatians 2:3, Romans 3:1, etcetera) (This is what Paul was arguing against many times in his letters to the Gentile churches - Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:3-5, Romans 11:6). For if a person thought they had to be circumcised to be initially saved, then they would be making the Law or a work the entrance gate and foundation of their salvation (Which is wrong).​

So the Bible teaches two aspects of salvation we need to be concerned with in this life.

Hebrews 11 describes faith as a belief (Hebrews 11:3), and it describes faith as in doing something (like works of faith) (Hebrews 11:7).
We have access to God’s grace through faith (Romans 5:2). So if we don’t have the same kind of faith described in Hebrews 11, we are not going to make it into the Kingdom.

As for a believer not having works or being unfruitful:

Yes. This is a loss of salvation big time.

#1. Imperfect Works Means One is Dead:

Revelation 3:2 - “Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.”
​

Is this a problem for this church? Yes, because Revelation 3:1 says this about them:

“I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.”. So this church is dead because their works were not found to be perfect before God.” (Revelation 3:1).
​

#2. Axe is ready to chop down the tree if it does not bring forth good fruit:

“And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10). “Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:” (Matthew 3:8).
​

For if we do not bring forth fruit befitting of repentance, then we will be chopped down like an axe chops down a tree.
​

#3. The Servant who was Faithful over a Few Things was Told to Enter the Joy of His Lord vs. the Unprofitable Servant was Told to be Cast into Outer Darkness:

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21). And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).
​

#4. Sowing to the Spirit (Well doing or good works) will lead to reaping everlasting life:

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).
​

The sowing to the Spirit in verse 8 is defined as “well doing” (good works) in verse 9. We are told we will reap if we faint not. Meaning, it is not a guarantee. So a believer needs to sow to the Spirit in well doing or they are not going to reap everlasting life. It’s just that simple.

#5. The person who does not righteousness is not of God:

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
​

A person who is not of God is not saved. So one must be doing righteousness and loving their brother to be saved. If not, they are not going to make it (i.e. the straight gate or narrow way).

#6. Helping the poor in this life as a believer will lead to inheriting the Kingdom. Not helping the poor in this life as a believer means one will go away into punishment:

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40). “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).
​

Some Christians have tried to explain away this parable saying it is either talking about nations or something else. But the plain reading of this parable strongly suggests that you need to help the poor and or the suffering as a part of entering God’s Kingdom. Also see Luke 10:25-28.

#7. Providing not for our own means we have denied the faith and we are worse than infidel (unbeliever):

“But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” (1 Timothy 5:8).
​

This verse cannot be referring to fake believers who were never born again (who are unbelievers in disguise) because it says that they are worse than an unbeliever. Only a believer who did this wrong thing can be worse than an unbeliever. This is a good work one must do in this life. If it was automatic, then Paul would not have told us about it.

#8. Allow a way for God’s people to learn how to do good works so that they are not unfruitful.

“And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.” (Titus 3:14).
​

To be unfruitful according to Jesus, means one will not be saved. For Jesus said in John 15:2 says that every branch that does not bear fruit shall be taken away, and it is taken away (cast away) so as to be burned in the fire (John 15:6).​

These things would not exist in Scripture if “Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism” was true. I believe in “Temporal Belief Alone Salvationism” in that it exists only when we are first saved by God’s grace without works in our Initial Salvation (Which is what I believe Paul talked about many times - Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, etcetera). This should not be confused with Sanctification (Which is a completely different aspect of salvation that happens after being saved by God’s grace).

 

[Illuminator]

John 1:32 – when Jesus was baptized, He was baptized in the water and the Spirit, which descended upon Him in the form of a dove. The Holy Spirit and water are required for baptism. Also, Jesus’ baptism was not the Christian baptism He later instituted. Jesus’ baptism was instead a royal anointing of the Son of David (Jesus) conferred by a Levite (John the Baptist) to reveal Christ to Israel, as it was foreshadowed in 1 Kings 1:39 when the Son of David (Solomon) was anointed by the Levitical priest Zadok. See John 1:31; cf. Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:9; Luke 3:21.

John 3:3,5 – Jesus says, “Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” When Jesus said “water and the Spirit,” He was referring to baptism (which requires the use of water, and the work of the Spirit).

John 3:22 – after teaching on baptism, John says Jesus and the disciples did what? They went into Judea where the disciples baptized. Jesus’ teaching about being reborn by water and the Spirit is in the context of baptism.
read more here

Obviously, it is an outward sign of an inward grace. That, my friends, is thee basic definition applicable to all 7 sacraments.

In the context of Acts 2, the phrase “in the name of Jesus Christ” was not a liturgical formula, but a way of distinguishing Christian baptism from the baptism of John the Baptist (cf. Acts 19:1-5). Matthew 28:19 shows that awareness and acceptance of the Holy Trinity is also necessary. Hence, in context, Peter mentions the Holy Spirit: “Repent, and be baptized . . . and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” God the Father is included in the next verse as well: “For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
Moreover, fairly explicit trinitarianism is present in Acts 2:32-33, in the same sermon on the Day of Pentecost:
This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which you see and hear.

The passage in Acts 2:38 is not intended as a formula and doesn’t record an actual baptism or the words spoken during it (because Peter is commanding baptism for all Christians, not actually performing it). In any event, to use the phrase “baptized in Jesus’ name” (in a non-formulaic way) does not theologically contradict the trinitarian baptismal formula.

The baptismal formula adopted by the Church in its rite and sacrament of baptism from the beginning is the one recorded in Matthew 28:19. We see this in the Didache, a very important apostolic writing, dated as early as 60-70 A.D., which places it earlier than even some biblical books. In this work we find the following passage (7:1):
read the rest here

At water baptism the Holy Spirit removes original sin and then take up residence. So I think it's more correct to say that a "Holy Spirit baptism" occurs because the Holy Spirit was there in the first place, it's simply released. This eases the controversy about 2 different supposed baptisms. Some have a dynamic experience when this happens, but it doesn't make them holier than anybody else. Better equipped, perhaps.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2016/09/heartfelt-sacramentalism-not-mere-charms.html

 

[DJT_47]

The one baptism is immersion in water. Upon being immersed in water, baptized, you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost according to Acts 2:38. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is a different event such as recorded in Acts 2 to the apostles and was a unique occurrence for a very special reason; to validate what was occurring at that time, convincing the Jews that Jesus was the Christ and thereby establishing the church in Jerusalem.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Anyways, if anyone has anything to share on the OP. It would be appreciated.

May God bless all the faithful in Christ Jesus.

Bible Highlighter. I don't think Spirit baptism has replaced water baptism. Spirit baptism is something that the Spirit does for us; water baptism is something we do for ourselves. I was water baptized and I consider this to be a highly significant aspect of my early days as a Christian. There is nothing comparable to the act of public expressions of loyalty to Jesus Christ, especially in times like those in which we currently live. It takes courage to stand up publicly and confess Jesus, counting yourself among all the other Jesus-followers. If asked, I would recommend it.

To that purpose, I made the following short video.

Here
A Deep Dive Into Baptism

or Here

 

[LoveofTruth]

This sounds like two baptisms you are describing here and not just one...In other words, if you believe in two or three spiritual baptisms, then how can you interpret the one baptism mentioned in Ephesians 4:5 as being a singular spiritual baptism only?

Hello again, God bless,

When I read the words about "one baptism" in Ephesians. I see this as the one saving baptism into Christ by the Spirit. This is the vital saving one. The other baptisms we read of are important but this must be referring to the one saving one of 1 Peter 3:21, and Mark 16:16, and this would go along with the one baptism that ALL believers are in which is 1 Cor 12:13 and Galatians 3 and other places that describe the one baptism into Jesus Christ where we put on Christ and are members of that one body of Christ. When Jesus is in us and we in him (john 15).

We read clearly in scripture that there is only “ONE” baptism in Ephesians 4:5, and yet that there is more than one baptism spoken of in Hebrews 6:2. One baptism, and baptisms, would seem at first glance, to be a contradiction, but this is not the case. There are about 7 baptisms in scripture, if you don’t include the diverse washings of Hebrews 9 verse, and the Halakah law of the Jews for Gentile converts, which would make baptisms cover many various kinds. But yet we read of one baptism * Ephesians 4:5 KJV) and of a saving baptism 1 Peter 3:21 ( which is not water baptism as i understand but rather a baptism into Jesus Christ where we are raised up into the heavens with him and come to rest in Him and a new life, where inwardly we have the witness and our conscience also has an answer to the inquiry of how we can be saved). Consider these different baptisms, in contrast to the one saving baptism.

1. The baptism unto Moses. “And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea” 1 Corinthians 10:2

2. The baptism of John with water unto repentance “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:” Matthew 3:11

3. Jesus baptism, in the Jordan river, to manifest himself to Israel and to fulfill all righteousness. “Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.” Matthew 3:13 -15

4. The baptism with the Holy Ghost and with fire, “he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:” Matthew 3:11. The two baptism here seem to be related to the Power of the Spirit in our lives. The baptism with fire is in need of discussion. A purging may be involved and daily life aspect.

5. Baptism into Christ at salvation, the saving “one” baptism”, “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” Galatians 3:27 and “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body...” 1 Corinthians 12:13 and “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?” Romans 6:3, and “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, ( not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. “ 1 Peter 3:21 , Mark 16:16, "
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”

6. Baptism unto sufferings, “But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.” Matthew 20:22

7.The Baptising in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost “ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” Matthew 28. the teaching immerses all the world in the name ( character life, virtue authority and power of the father the Son and the Holy Ghost. While Jesus was in the earth he kept them in the NAME of the father and manifested the father to them. The Holy Ghost will testify of Jesus and jesus will teach of the father the father reveals the Son and we in Christ teach all immersing them into the name. While Peter was speaking to the Gentiles the Holy host fell on those who heard the word. This is one example.

8. The "diverse washings" of Hebrews 9 and the halakah Law of the Jews. There were many various washings under the law. Even Johns water baptism may fit into these, being a carnal ordinance and diverse washing under the OT. Johns said he must decrease and jesus increase. Johns whole ministry was to decrease as was the Old Covenant.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The one baptism is immersion in water. Upon being immersed in water, baptized, you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost according to Acts 2:38. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is a different event such as recorded in Acts 2 to the apostles and was a unique occurrence for a very special reason; to validate what was occurring at that time, convincing the Jews that Jesus was the Christ and thereby establishing the church in Jerusalem.

I agree that the one baptism stated in Ephesians 4:5 is water baptism. The bulk of the context supports what we must do vs. God doing something.

As for Acts of the Apostles 2:38:

Pentecost was an all Jewish audience. Jews are not like Gentiles in that they already believe in God. So I don’t see Pentecost as an example of Initial Salvation but I see a call back to God for the Jew. I say this because there are groups like the Church of Christ or the Catholic Church who attempt to wrongfully use Acts of the Apostles 2:38 as an example of Initial Salvation (When that clearly is not the case). The Spirit came upon Cornelius and his household before they were even water baptized in Acts of the Apostles 10.

I believe the thief on the cross was saved without water baptism. Meaning, I believe that a person can die on their hospital bed simply believing on the name of Jesus and be saved by God’s grace. I believe a Christian who desires to be water baptized but they have never found anyone in this life who believes the Bible as he does to baptize him will also be saved by God’s grace. The point here is a will heart of obedience. But if a believer just simply does not want to be water baptized because they are disobedient, then that is a problem.

Baptism is simply a part of living out our faith.
We see examples of faith in Hebrews 11.
Faith can be a belief alone (Hebrews 11:3), and faith can also be doing what God tells us to do like Noah preparing an Ark to the saving of his household (Hebrews 11:7).

Faith is how we gain access to God’s grace (Romans 5:2).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Bible Highlighter. I don't think Spirit baptism has replaced water baptism. Spirit baptism is something that the Spirit does for us; water baptism is something we do for ourselves. I was water baptized and I consider this to be a highly significant aspect of my early days as a Christian. There is nothing comparable to the act of public expressions of loyalty to Jesus Christ, especially in times like those in which we currently live. It takes courage to stand up publicly and confess Jesus, counting yourself among all the other Jesus-followers. If asked, I would recommend it.

To that purpose, I made the following short video.

Here
A Deep Dive Into Baptism

or Here

When I initially created this thread I held to the view for a while that Spirit baptism replace water baptism but after watching the following video by Alan Ballou on faith (that is not really about baptism entirely), I am now 100% convinced that water baptism is for Christians today. The bulk of this thread is my defense of water baptism being a necessary requirement for the faith.

*** Video Removed **** See my updated note below.

The problem I see now with the viewpoint of: “Spirit baptism replaces water baptism” is that it is based on a loosely connected set of verses and many inferences are made to support this belief (that sets out to accuse the brethren, and to claim that Pentecost was a less than perfect event in history without any solid biblical evidence). God was communicating directly with the apostles many times, and He never once rebuked them for baptizing in the name of Jesus. While there are different types of baptisms mentioned in the Bible, the main primary mention of that word was water baptism.

Side Note:

As for Alan Ballou’s video:

While he has some great videos on Sanctification and providing us with warnings that the Bible talks about involving the Christian life, I disagree with Alan’s view of God (Which is fuzzy and or mysterious). Alan does not accept the Christian view of the Trinity (i.e. that the Lord our God is one God and yet He exists as three distinct persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).

Update:

I had to remove these videos from Alan Ballou (that I posted before).

While I liked Alan Ballou’s videos before on Sanctification and putting away sin and they were really helpful, the problem is he is a false accuser of the brethren. In the YouTube comment section in this video here, Alan Ballou falsely accused me of several things that I are not actually true. I said that while I agreed with his viewpoint on how there are two aspects of salvation, I told him that I disagree with his view on “obeying the gospel.” I told him “obeying the gospel“ is defined for us in Romans 10 in that it is believing the gospel message. He also implied there was no free will when we come to the Lord (Which is Calvinism), and he used John 6 as an example. I explained to him why this is not Calvinism and instead of disagreeing in love and respect, he started to falsely accuse me (as if I had teachers, and I went to bible college - when that is not the case). I tried to tell him in love that he was falsely accusing me here, and he never replied back. You can see the conversation under the same username I use here (Bible Highlighter) with there being 16 replies to my comment to him. I refuse to watch somebody who falsely accuses other Christians