Do you believe this is...

[face2face]

Is this a little ironic? Your poking fun at what Paul wrote to the Ephesians which we should take seriously.

Not so Jay, I'm poking fun at what you do to this text with your imagination.

Ephesians 6:10-20: - 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Explain in the context of this letter "the false accusers schemes?"

What are they? how did first century believers identify them?

F2F

 

[Jay Ross]

Not so Jay, I'm poking fun at what you do to this text with your imagination.

Explain in the context of this letter "the false accusers schemes?"

What are they? how did first century believers identify them?

F2F

AH! F2F, I have no need to justify what I posted. It was scripture after all.

If I was you, I would be more concerned with your imagination than with other peoples' imaginations as your take on what you imagine the scriptures tell us is suspect to say the least. You offer to help others understand, but there are few who have actually accepted your offer to expound on the word of God. They are wise in this aspect w.r.t. you.

Goodbye

 

[Taken]

No such thing as an unholy divine Angel.

Duh…!!!
NO ONE has said such a stupid thing.

You are yet to prove a Divine Holy Angel can sin -

I have no requirement to PROVE what I NeVeR CLAIMED!

And I asked you what Bible story is 2 Peter 2 referring to? Who were cast down in the earth reserved for later judgement?

Comón Taken THINK!

We know its not speaking of Divine Messengers - these are human sinners!

2 Peter 2: is about human men and holy angels exercising their freewill … choosing to reject God …. And their consequences thereof.

Nothing that I have not said before.

 

[Taken]

@Duck Muscles

Read the Translators notes for Isaiah 14

NET
What is the background for the imagery in vv. 12–15? This whole section (vv. 4b–21) is directed to the king of Babylon, who is clearly depicted as a human ruler. Other kings of the earth address him in vv. 9ff., he is called “the man” in v. 16, and, according to vv. 19–20, he possesses a physical body. Nevertheless the language of vv. 12–15 has led some to see a dual referent in the taunt song.

Facts:

Nowhere in this random out of context chapter in Isaiah does it mention the terms "devil", "satan" or "fallen angel". Not only have you inferred it you are forcing so many man made notions upon you would be better off writing your own Bible and following that!

Lucifer (morning or day star) is identified in the text not with a rebel angel. It is explicitly stated:

"Take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased!" (verse 4!). The preceding chapter is a prophecy against Babylon itself, but now the prophecy is directed against the king of Babylon. What you are learning here is sound Bible reading - textual context and staying within the confines of the text.

Is your satan really accompanied by the noise of viols (sound of harps? (verse 11)

Is your satan to be covered by worms in the grave (Verse 11) or is he not rather to be cast into the lake of fire?

Why is your satan desirous of a place "in the sides of the north"? (verse 13).

If your Satan is a rebel angel, why is he called "the man"? in verse 16?

What land has Satan possessed the destruction of which results in his dishonourable burial? See verse 20!

Where are satan's people buried? verse 20

When did Satan have charge over a prison, refusing to let the people go home? verse 17.

I think the point has been made.

Both your replies have shown how poorly you treat the text. You need to approach the Word with care and with the mindset of being teachable. You should ask questions of the Word and allow it to answer, rather than making gross assumptions which both of you have done in this thread.

Lets see how you fare.

F2F

BTW @Taken didn't answer one question Duck Muscles, not one!

You are not equipped to have a civil Biblical discussion. Worry about yourself.

 

[face2face]

AH! F2F, I have no need to justify what I posted. It was scripture after all.

If I was you, I would be more concerned with your imagination than with other peoples' imaginations as your take on what you imagine the scriptures tell us is suspect to say the least. You offer to help others understand, but there are few who have actually accepted your offer to expound on the word of God. They are wise in this aspect w.r.t. you.

Goodbye

In other words, you cannot give an answer.

F2F

 

[face2face]

2 Peter 2: is about human men and holy angels exercising their freewill … choosing to reject God …. And their consequences thereof.

Nothing that I have not said before.

Angels only do the Will of their Master.

Here is another verse for you to ponder.

“For he (God) will order his angels to protect you wherever you go. They will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.”

Psalm 91:11-12

Do you know where this is quoted?

I guess you believe that God in Heaven can order and Angels can use their free will to decide?

And we are back to the OP again are we not? Your reward in Heaven is now marred because you believe you will still have a nature in heaven will sins.

F2F

 

[face2face]

You are not equipped to have a civil Biblical discussion. Worry about yourself.

Have a go at those questions from Isaiah 14 - you are the one who quoted that passage and used it to defend your belief in fallen angels.

F2F

 

[Jay Ross]

In other words, you cannot give an answer.

F2F

But F2F it seems that whatever answer that I give you, in your understanding it will be so wrong, so what is the point if you are going to reject it no matter what I might say.

Goodbye

 

[Taken]

I guess you believe that God in Heaven can order and Angels can use their free will to decide?

You are not qualified to “guess” nor “state” what “I” believe.

There “ARE” fallen angels, who FELL AWAY from their holy service unto God…
“They ARE ALL “devils”, serving their “Father”, doing the will of their “Master Devil” (Satan).

Doesn’t matter, Has zero effect on me…
IF you believe that, or not.

 

[Duck Muscles]

@Duck Muscles

Read the Translators notes for Isaiah 14

NET
What is the background for the imagery in vv. 12–15? This whole section (vv. 4b–21) is directed to the king of Babylon, who is clearly depicted as a human ruler. Other kings of the earth address him in vv. 9ff., he is called “the man” in v. 16, and, according to vv. 19–20, he possesses a physical body. Nevertheless the language of vv. 12–15 has led some to see a dual referent in the taunt song.

Facts:

Nowhere in this random out of context chapter in Isaiah does it mention the terms "devil", "satan" or "fallen angel". Not only have you inferred it you are forcing so many man made notions upon you would be better off writing your own Bible and following that!

Lucifer (morning or day star) is identified in the text not with a rebel angel. It is explicitly stated:

"Take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased!" (verse 4!). The preceding chapter is a prophecy against Babylon itself, but now the prophecy is directed against the king of Babylon. What you are learning here is sound Bible reading - textual context and staying within the confines of the text.

Is your satan really accompanied by the noise of viols (sound of harps? (verse 11)

Is your satan to be covered by worms in the grave (Verse 11) or is he not rather to be cast into the lake of fire?

Why is your satan desirous of a place "in the sides of the north"? (verse 13).

If your Satan is a rebel angel, why is he called "the man"? in verse 16?

What land has Satan possessed the destruction of which results in his dishonourable burial? See verse 20!

Where are satan's people buried? verse 20

When did Satan have charge over a prison, refusing to let the people go home? verse 17.

I think the point has been made.

Both your replies have shown how poorly you treat the text. You need to approach the Word with care and with the mindset of being teachable. You should ask questions of the Word and allow it to answer, rather than making gross assumptions which both of you have done in this thread.

Lets see how you fare.

F2F

BTW @Taken didn't answer one question Duck Muscles, not one!

You are of the mindset then that Lucifer, known as ha Satan, is not a fallen angel?

 

[face2face]

But F2F it seems that whatever answer that I give you, in your understanding it will be so wrong, so what is the point if you are going to reject it no matter what I might say.

Goodbye

So retreat into the forum to find people who agree with you.
F2F

 

[face2face]

You are not qualified to “guess” nor “state” what “I” believe.

There “ARE” fallen angels, who FELL AWAY from their holy service unto God…
“They ARE ALL “devils”, serving their “Father”, doing the will of their “Master Devil” (Satan).

Doesn’t matter, Has zero effect on me…
IF you believe that, or not.

We still arrive at the conclusion you are unable to prove angels can sin.

F2F

 

[face2face]

You are of the mindset then that Lucifer, known as ha Satan, is not a fallen angel?

Sorry, how did you make that connection?

The name Lucifer means day star while satan means adversary.

Both words are used in different context.

Understand?

 

[Lordsflower]

...a true assessment of His Angels?

Praise the Lord, you angels of his, you powerful warriors who carry out his decrees and obey his orders! 103:21 Praise the Lord, all you warriors of his, you servants of his who carry out his desires! Ps 103:20–21.

I'm consistently hearing in this forum of fallen angels which clearly is a contraction to the above truth.

Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored, 6:10 may your kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven Mt 6:9–10.

Is His Will always done in Heaven?

So do His Angels "always" do His Pleasure?
Is His Will "always" done in Heaven?

Many of you reading this would say NO! God is not in control of His own House; the Divine Nature being pure, perfect and Holy can sin

Carry through the logic...you wrestle for 70 odd years in the flesh suffering with temptation and sin only to find you will sin as a divine being

Have you got the whole fallen angel doctrine entirely wrong?

99% of this forum are in this position of error!

99% of this forum do not know the God of Psalm 103:20-21 & Matthew 6:9-10

Proceed...

F2F

Wouldn't your calculations place you in that 1%?

Can you prove you know more on this topic than the 99%?

 

[face2face]

Wouldn't your calculations place you in that 1%?

Can you prove you know more on this topic than the 99%?

We are 8 pages into this subject and so far only Taken has attempted to prove Angels can sin.
I think the OP is safe for the moment.
F2F

 

[Lordsflower]

We are 8 pages into this subject and so far only Taken has attempted to prove Angels can sin.
I think the OP is safe for the moment.
F2F

You therefore are actually not in that 1%. Alright.

Cherubim are symbolic angelic figures.

“You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God…You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings” (Ezekiel 28:12–17 NIV).

“How you are fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into Heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit” (Isaiah 14:12–15).

 

[face2face]

You therefore are actually not in that 1%. Alright.

Cherubim are symbolic angelic figures.

“You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God…You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings” (Ezekiel 28:12–17 NIV).

How willing are you to discuss Ezekiel 28?

It's noted you have copied and pasted the text and inferred your own meaning to that section of Scripture...are you willing to enter to discover more or are you happy with your implied notions?

F2F

 

[face2face]

“How you are fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into Heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit” (Isaiah 14:12–15).

If you go back into the thread you will see a stack of questions on Isaiah 14 which the 99% have not touched.

Have a go if you like.

F2F

 

[Lordsflower]

If you go back into the thread you will see a stack of questions on Isaiah 14 which the 99% have not touched.

Have a go if you like.

F2F

No thank you. You couldn't answer as to your proof you know the answer to your own question.

Which means you can't know who is wrong nor right when they reply to the question you can't answer yourself.

 

[face2face]

No thank you.

Polite is good.

You couldn't answer as to your proof you know the answer to your own question.

If you are unable to support your two passages with understanding the only conclusion is you do not understand.

Which means you can't know who is wrong nor right when they reply to the question you can't answer yourself.

There are many questions we can ask, its the difficult ones that often highlight a persons folly.

I could thank you for your contribution but I sense we are yet to see it.

F2F