Don't call yourself a Christian when you live like the world.

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Ronald David Bruno

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If scripture addresses sin, so should we at the pulpit.
And the folks that want encouragement only instead of the meat of the word to chew on are immature in thefaith.
I never said it shouldn't be taught. It is crucial and fundamental. The wages of sin is death and that is what we are saved from. We need to understand what it is.
God gave us the Ten Commandments to understand what sin is. When we break a commandment, we sin. There are other ways of putting it: the act of rebelling against God, missing the mark, but it is basically breaking God's law. Adam and Eve were told not to do one thing and they disobeyed, they sinned. We are born sinners with this nature to go our own way, to rebel against what is good and right, to be disobedient. It was inherited from Adam. When we realize we are sinners, that we have broken God's law and that there is nothing that we can do about it, that we can't erase it, it's there and has consequences for us and others whom we have sinned against, then we must seek God for forgiveness.
I went to an excellent teaching church with a spirit-filled Pastor. I had a well rounded education. This includes the Bibical knowledge of both good and evil. We appreciate, know and love God and His attributes when we understand what evil is. Good and evil are woven throughout history, so we can't ignore sin and evil. But once we got it, then we can focus more on things above. A mature Christian can then sit through a sermon filled with truth, light, hope and encouragement without any mention or focus on sin because he already knows what sin is also because He has constant communion with the Holy Spirit, Who is guiding and teaching him directly, Who knows everything.
Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith.
 

teamventure

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I never said it shouldn't be taught. It is crucial and fundamental. The wages of sin is death and that is what we are saved from. We need to understand what it is.
God gave us the Ten Commandments to understand what sin is. When we break a commandment, we sin. There are other ways of putting it: the act of rebelling against God, missing the mark, but it is basically breaking God's law. Adam and Eve were told not to do one thing and they disobeyed, they sinned. We are born sinners with this nature to go our own way, to rebel against what is good and right, to be disobedient. It was inherited from Adam. When we realize we are sinners, that we have broken God's law and that there is nothing that we can do about it, that we can't erase it, it's there and has consequences for us and others whom we have sinned against, then we must seek God for forgiveness.
I went to an excellent teaching church with a spirit-filled Pastor. I had a well rounded education. This includes the Bibical knowledge of both good and evil. We appreciate, know and love God and His attributes when we understand what evil is. Good and evil are woven throughout history, so we can't ignore sin and evil. But once we got it, then we can focus more on things above. A mature Christian can then sit through a sermon filled with truth, light, hope and encouragement without any mention or focus on sin because he already knows what sin is also because He has constant communion with the Holy Spirit, Who is guiding and teaching him directly, Who knows everything.
Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

I see what you're saying and it makes sense in theory, however, the fact is most churches are filled with people who think their ok eternally but aren't because they haven't heard enough preaching on sin. Or worse, they have heard teaching that all you need is love so you don't need to repent which is more a message you'd hear in a beattles song than in scripture.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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I see what you're saying and it makes sense in theory, however, the fact is most churches are filled with people who think their ok eternally but aren't because they haven't heard enough preaching on sin. Or worse, they have heard teaching that all you need is love so you don't need to repent which is more a message you'd hear in a beattles song than in scripture.
It is true that some who claim they are Christians, have not been born again ... yet.
I wouldn't worry about them. They are either in the Book of Life or they are tares/ reprobates whom Satan has placed in the church. Nothing and no one can snatch the ones God has chosen out of His hands.
By their fruit you will know them and that is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
God is love. So is that not all we need? We can't realize this love until we have realized sin in our lives.
 
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teamventure

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It is true that some who claim they are Christians, have not been born again ... yet.
I wouldn't worry about them. They are either in the Book of Life or they are tares/ reprobates whom Satan has placed in the church. Nothimg and no one can snatch the ones God has chosen out of His hands.
By their fruit you will know them and that is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
God is love. So is that not all we need? We can't realize this love until we have realized sin in our lives.

Good points. I found it insightful.
It will be a rude awakening when many who thought they were on the narrow path face their own destruction.
 
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robert derrick

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We can call ourselves what we want, but if we are sinning with the devil against Jesus, then we are enemies of God just like any other friend of the world, names aside. And we must confess to Jesus from the heart to be forgiven and saved and cleansed of all unrighteousness.
 

DJT_47

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Juse for clarity, beibg a Christian and being worldly are two distinctly different things. You can be a Christian and yet be worldly, possibly meaning you're not a good Christian, but nevertheless, a Christian. The process of becoming a Christian has nothing to do with how you carry yourself or act once you've become one.
 

ShineTheLight

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Joel is preaching "another gospel" brother
J

A feel good one. A prosperity gospel.
Juse for clarity, beibg a Christian and being worldly are two distinctly different things. You can be a Christian and yet be worldly, possibly meaning you're not a good Christian, but nevertheless, a Christian. The process of becoming a Christian has nothing to do with how you carry yourself or act once you've become one.

I don't know about the last part.

Christians can still struggle or be entangled with the ways of the world. Everybody faces this challenge.
 

Nhisname

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I can't get on board with this Pastor's critical and judgmental tone. I shy away from preachers that focus on sin too much, and hit you over the head with their Bibles - as if their teaching is purely led by the Holy Spirit. Sin needs to be addressed, just not si much a dominant theme so you're not leaving the church with this guilt trip that the Pastor lays on you _ all the time!
The Pharisees can't be compared to spirit filled mega churches like Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel, Greg Laurie or even Joel Osteen. Some will attack Joel, even other Pastors like John MacArthur. I think they are jealous. Joel doesn't preach like John. You can sense the joy of the Lord in Joel. John is more of a college professor, serious, and so you'll get more doctrinal teaching from him. Joel encourages all to have faith. You don't go to Joel's church for doctrinal teaching, you go there to be lifted up. I went to a Mega church (about 3000) and it was both a teaching and spirit filled church.
So every Pastor has there own style and people are drawn to Christ in a myriad of ways, in small or large churches, teaching churches, faith based, Catholic or Protestant. As long as the Bible is taught. However anyone is drawn to Christ is good. Even if they aren't converted yet, the God is doing something, the word is slowly persuading them and transforming them. Better in church than apart from it. In the end, they will reach out for Christ and be saved. There are tares among the wheat and we need to be aware of them.
Also the fruit Jesus was talking about was the fruit of the Holy Spirit. We are to be salt and light in the world just not of the world. We have to live in it though, right. Just about every job out there is worldly unless you are a Pastor or Missionary. We pick one and do it with Christ.

I can't get on board with this Pastor's critical and judgmental tone. I shy away from preachers that focus on sin too much, and hit you over the head with their Bibles - as if their teaching is purely led by the Holy Spirit. Sin needs to be addressed, just not si much a dominant theme so you're not leaving the church with this guilt trip that the Pastor lays on you _ all the time!
The Pharisees can't be compared to spirit filled mega churches like Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel, Greg Laurie or even Joel Osteen. Some will attack Joel, even other Pastors like John MacArthur. I think they are jealous. Joel doesn't preach like John. You can sense the joy of the Lord in Joel. John is more of a college professor, serious, and so you'll get more doctrinal teaching from him. Joel encourages all to have faith. You don't go to Joel's church for doctrinal teaching, you go there to be lifted up. I went to a Mega church (about 3000) and it was both a teaching and spirit filled church.
So every Pastor has there own style and people are drawn to Christ in a myriad of ways, in small or large churches, teaching churches, faith based, Catholic or Protestant. As long as the Bible is taught. However anyone is drawn to Christ is good. Even if they aren't converted yet, the God is doing something, the word is slowly persuading them and transforming them. Better in church than apart from it. In the end, they will reach out for Christ and be saved. There are tares among the wheat and we need to be aware of them.
Also the fruit Jesus was talking about was the fruit of the Holy Spirit. We are to be salt and light in the world just not of the world. We have to live in it though, right. Just about every job out there is worldly unless you are a Pastor or Missionary. We pick one and do it with Christ.
Sounds like you would rather have an ear tickler than a real sermon on the word of God. Mature Christians want to be fed the Word, if the preacher is Spirit filled he will bring conviction and repentance to his flock.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Sounds like you would rather have an ear tickler than a real sermon on the word of God. Mature Christians want to be fed the Word, if the preacher is Spirit filled he will bring conviction and repentance to his flock.
I know what sin is and am aware of mine - and they all have been forgiven. I've had a wonderful Pastor who was spirit- filled, educated and balanced.
I was born again in 1991, have learned and studied alongside the best theologians out there. I have the Holy Spirit, Who loves, counsels, comforts, teaches, guides, sanctifies, edifies, AND convicts me of sin when I backslide.He knows me better than anyone and is much more qualified to rebuke and chastise me directly when I need it. I don't need indirect, broad brushed, chastisements from some stranger online who doesn't know me. But I will accept rebuke from a close brother anytime. You however, don't know me.

You just joined. Is that how you get acquainted with someone? To listen to a conversation of two brothers in church, not having heard the whole conversation and then just walk up to one, break into the conversarion without even introducing yourself and say, "Well it sounds like you'd rather get your ears tickled", insult him by implying he is not mature and then walk away?" Is that mature?
 
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Nhisname

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I can't get on board with this Pastor's critical and judgmental tone. I shy away from preachers that focus on sin too much, and hit you over the head with their Bibles - as if their teaching is purely led by the Holy Spirit. Sin needs to be addressed, just not si much a dominant theme so you're not leaving the church with this guilt trip that the Pastor lays on you _ all the time!
The Pharisees can't be compared to spirit filled mega churches like Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel, Greg Laurie or even Joel Osteen. Some will attack Joel, even other Pastors like John MacArthur. I think they are jealous. Joel doesn't preach like John. You can sense the joy of the Lord in Joel. John is more of a college professor, serious, and so you'll get more doctrinal teaching from him. Joel encourages all to have faith. You don't go to Joel's church for doctrinal teaching, you go there to be lifted up. I went to a Mega church (about 3000) and it was both a teaching and spirit filled church.
So every Pastor has there own style and people are drawn to Christ in a myriad of ways, in small or large churches, teaching churches, faith based, Catholic or Protestant. As long as the Bible is taught. However anyone is drawn to Christ is good. Even if they aren't converted yet, the God is doing something, the word is slowly persuading them and transforming them. Better in church than apart from it. In the end, they will reach out for Christ and be saved. There are tares among the wheat and we need to be aware of them.
Also the fruit Jesus was talking about was the fruit of the Holy Spirit. We are to be salt and light in the world just not of the world. We have to live in it though, right. Just about every job out there is worldly unless you are a Pastor or Missionary. We pick one and do it with Christ.
Sounds like you want an ear tickler. Mature Christians want to hear the Word of God not anything that's watered down. If the preacher stirs conviction and steps on toes, amen!
 

quietthinker

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Sounds like you would rather have an ear tickler than a real sermon on the word of God. Mature Christians want to be fed the Word, if the preacher is Spirit filled he will bring conviction and repentance to his flock.
what about hope....would he bring that?
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Sounds like you want an ear tickler. Mature Christians want to hear the Word of God not anything that's watered down. If the preacher stirs conviction and steps on toes, amen!
We are getting old and forgetful. You said the same thing in post 129, then skipped over my response. Maybe you just want to ignore and pretend post 130 doesn't exist?
Welcome to Christianity board - off to a good start aye?
 
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quietthinker

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All of us have negative self talk in some form. It either criticises or flatters.....and who can discern its source?
We need insight, encouragement and hope.....the which does not come by pointing out the failures of others and patting oneself on the back....that principle is how the mindset of the World works.

Insight, encouragement and hope definitely does not come from arguing theology. So how does it come about???
 

atpollard

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Insight, encouragement and hope definitely does not come from arguing theology. So how does it come about???
Easy for you to say ... you are in Australia and can't talk to either of them over a cup of coffee (yuck) or tea (yum) at Denny's. ;)
[Which is how 'insight' comes about ... breaking bread and talking in an informal setting where you get to know people as people rather than "opposing poopey-heads on the internet". :)]
 

atpollard

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We are getting old and forgetful. You said the same thing in post 129, then skipped over my response. Maybe you just want to ignore and pretend post 130 doesn't exist?
Welcome to Christianity board - off to a good start aye?

Hanlon's razor


Mißverständnisse und Trägheit vielleicht mehr Irrungen in der Welt machen als List und Bosheit. Wenigstens sind die beiden letzteren gewiß seltener. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1774)

[Translation: "misunderstandings and lethargy perhaps produce more wrong in the world than deceit and malice do. At least the latter two are certainly rarer."]
 
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quietthinker

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Easy for you to say ... you are in Australia and can't talk to either of them over a cup of coffee (yuck) or tea (yum) at Denny's. ;)
[Which is how 'insight' comes about ... breaking bread and talking in an informal setting where you get to know people as people rather than "opposing poopey-heads on the internet". :)]
I have a little place in the forest (better than Denny's) :) It's open for all who wanna come and pow wow about the treasure not in 'earthen vessels'

I cut my bread with a knife.....I can afford a knife :)

......and as far as opposing poopey-heads go, yeahhhh, it's a challenge all right; and might I add, of which there's been some experience; it's....how shall I say? ...practice in long-suffering!
 
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