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Drink Ye of The Wine.

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Christina, Sep 15, 2007.

  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (kriss;17841)
    Jag my friend Im looking for a deeper thing here not discussing the right or wrong of alcoholconsumption:)Im thinking of Wine as the symbol for the blood of Christ being forbibben by those of this false religionis that to reject the blood of Christ cleansing our sins. To make instead Allah the sin forgiver????
    Jagster youre missing the point of the thread please read my post above
     
  2. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    The point is: 1. Muhammed withouth drinking an ounce of vine was a terrorist, a mass murderer, a rapist, an adulterer a child abuser and perhaps his versitality is hard to compose in words but do consult historical references and Quran, Hadith and Sunah for authenticity.2. Vine is a symbol of Jesus blood in christianity who is everything that Muhammed was not and Yes, Jesus consumed vine in his life time and yet remained free of sin and has no historical records of being a drunkard.3. Please feel free to do 2 x 2 = ?
     
  3. tim bennett

    tim bennett New Member

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    thank yu sista=do yu take holy communion? i take it yu are a christian if yu are posting ephesians=i do not know. i m not so sure the back masking on stairway to heaven was demonic. if satan is sweet= for the bible tells me he is the great deciever. and why would satans path sadden someone. they may be decieved. so i guess that is demonic.this record is reversible, time is not, turn back, turn back. i believe those guys thought satan would change his stripes=they may have decieved. led zeplin.
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    What Im trying to discover in this thread is whether or not God gave us clues to discover whether or not this Radical brand of Islam that is the enemy of Rev. and so many prophecys of the Bible. I have always believed it to be just never found it in scripture. and I think God might have showed us if we look harder.
     
  5. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Kriss)
    (Kriss)
    Jagmy friend Im looking for a deeper thing here not discussing the right or wrong of alcoholconsumptionIm thinking of Wine as the symbol for the blood of Christ being forbibben by those of this false religionis that to reject the blood of Christ cleansing our sins. To make instead Allah the sin forgiver????
    Jagster youre missing the point of the thread please read my post aboveOf course I was missing the whole point my dear sister in Christ. The post of scriptures that I posted on was referring to Amy's post before I got a chance to read it. (In fact it was before her post about the drunkards)(Amy)
    The point is:1. Muhammed withouth drinking an ounce of vine was a terrorist, a mass murderer, a rapist, an adulterer a child abuser and perhaps his versitality is hard to compose in words but do consult historical references and Quran, Hadith and Sunah for authenticity.2. Vine is a symbol of Jesus blood in christianity who is everything that Muhammed was not and Yes, Jesus consumed vine in his life time and yet remained free of sin and has no historical records of being a drunkard.3. Please feel free to do 2 x 2 = ?
    Thank you for the explanation my dear sister Amy. I'm still learning. [​IMG] So I'm also trying to dig deeper.BTW 2 x 2 = 4. [​IMG]Lovest thou in Christos Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
     
  6. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (kriss;17859)
    What Im trying to discover in this thread is whether or not God gave us clues to discover whether or not this Radical brand of Islam that is the enemy of Rev. and so many prophecys of the Bible. I have always believed it to be just never found it in scripture. and I think God might have showed us if we look harder.
    Dear Sister Kriss [​IMG]I am currently studing these links:http://www.ellisskolfield.com/pdf/TFPChapters1-9.pdfhttp://www.ellisskolfield.com/pdf/TFPChapters10-17.pdfhttp://www.ellisskolfield.com/pdf/IslamReviewed.pdfI have NOT yet reached conclusion but perhaps you may take a look.
     
  7. tim bennett

    tim bennett New Member

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    go sist amy. go sista am. go sista amy. there is no stang of death, he took hat stang away from me. sorry about makking that commnet about daneil pearl. but i think that was a horid sin. now where in the bible did jesus tell us to cut someones head off. he did tell me to pluck my eye out. and he did tell me to cut of my offending arm if i continue to keep lustin and ----------. somewhere it is written to cut off the head and the body will die? where is that. bless yehoshua.maybe that is not the bible?might haave seen that on house last night
     
  8. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (tim bennett;17895)
    go sist amy. go sista am. go sista amy. there is no stang of death, he took hat stang away from me. sorry about makking that commnet about daneil pearl. but i think that was a horid sin. now where in the bible did jesus tell us to cut someones head off. he did tell me to pluck my eye out. and he did tell me to cut of my offending arm if i continue to keep lustin and ----------. somewhere it is written to cut off the head and the body will die? where is that. bless yehoshua.maybe that is not the bible?might haave seen that on house last night
    Dear brother, I think we are on totally different wave lengths for most of the time I don't understand where you are coming from. I am a simple human who feels lost between your lines. Irony has never made much sense to me :angel1:With reference to the links that I have provided above, are not my thoughts. To be honest I have not finished reading as I have stated above. I'll appreciate if you don't draw assumptions on my behalf.
     
  9. E Nomine

    E Nomine New Member

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    I'll appreciate if you don't draw assumptions on my behalf.
    Strange how everyone seems to nonetheless . . ..Anyways, I can't find it now, but the Bible forbides us of getting drunk not forbidding drinking or "hard drinks". We can drink all we want as long as we do not get drunk and follow our countyr's laws on the sonsumption of alcohol.
     
  10. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (E Nomine;17953)
    Strange how everyone seems to nonetheless . . ..Anyways, I can't find it now, but the Bible forbides us of getting drunk not forbidding drinking or "hard drinks". We can drink all we want as long as we do not get drunk and follow our countyr's laws on the sonsumption of alcohol.
    Yeah, it's strange why people deviate from the topic. That is exactly what I was trying to say, ''We can drink as long as we do not get drunk'' though it is off topic.
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Twenty-Year Plan: Islam Targets America by Dr. Anis Shorrosh When we immigrated from Jerusalem, Jordan* in January, 1967, little did I imagine that Islam would become center-stage in world news. As my sincere interest in the growth of Islam in America intensified, I began to discuss, dialogue, and then debate Muslim leaders throughout the world from an Arab Christian's view of Islam. So far, I have had the privilege of participating in over 20 debates and discussions on every continent plus T.V. and radio. "Islam Revealed" was released in 1988 and is now in its 8th printing. The True Furqan is now in its third printing in the three years it has been published. It is the only book which challenges the Quran in substance, style, language and contents. "The True Furqan" can be located on http://www.answers-to-islam.net/ or http://www.islam-exposed.org/. This is my analysis of the Islamic invasion of America, the agenda of Islamists and visible methods to take over America by the year 2020! Will Americans continue to sleep through this invasion as they did when we were attacked on 9/11? 1. Terminate America's freedom of speech by replacing it with hate crime bills state-wide and nation-wide. 2. Wage a war of words using black leaders like Louis Farrakhan, Rev. Jesse Jackson and other visible religious personalities to promote Islam as the original African-American's religion while Christianity is for the whites! Strange enough, no one tells the African-Americans that it was the Arab Muslims who captured them and sold them as slaves, neither the fact that in Arabic the word for black and slave is the same, "Abed." 3. Engage the American public in dialogues, discussions, debates in colleges, universities, public libraries, radio, TV, churches and mosques on the virtues of Islam. Proclaim how it is historically another religion like Judaism and Christianity with the same monotheistic faith. 4. Nominate Muslim sympathizers to political office for favorable legislation to Islam and support potential sympathizers by block voting. 5. Take control of as much of Hollywood, the press, TV, radio and the internet by buying the corporations or a controlling stock. 6. Yield to the fear of imminent shut-off of the lifeblood of America - the black gold. America's economy depends on oil, (1000 products are derived from oil), so does its personal and industrial transportation and manufacturing -41% comes from the Middle East. 7. Yell, "foul, out-of-context, personal interpretation, hate crime, Zionist, un- American, inaccurate interpretation of the Quran" anytime Islam is criticized or the Quran is analyzed in the public arena. 8. Encourage Muslims to penetrate the White House, specifically with Islamists who can articulate a marvelous and peaceful picture of Islam. Acquire government positions, get membership in local school boards. Train Muslims as medical doctors to dominate the medical field, research and pharmaceutical companies. Take over the computer industry. Establish Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the U.S. to connect planners of Islamization in a discreet way. Ever notice how numerous Muslim doctors in America are, when their countries need them more desperately than America? 9. Accelerate Islamic demographic growth via: a. Massive immigration (100,000 annually since 1961) b. No birth control whatsoever - every baby of Muslim parents is automatically a Muslim and cannot choose another religion later. c. Muslim men must marry American women and Islamize them (10,000 annually). Then divorce them and remarry every five years - since one cannot have the Muslim legal permission to marry four at one time. This is a legal solution in America. d. Convert angry, alienated black inmates and turn them into militants (so far 2000 released inmates have joined Al Qaida world-wide). Only a few have been captured in Afghanistan and on American soil. So far - sleeping cells! 10. Reading, writing, arithmetic and research through the American educational system, mosques and student centers (now 1500) should be sprinkled with dislike of Jews, evangelical Christians and democracy. There are 300 exclusively Muslim schools with loyalty to the Quran, not the U.S. Constitution. 11. Provide very sizeable monetary Muslim grants to colleges and universities in America to establish "Centers for Islamic studies" with Muslim directors to promote Islam in higher education institutions. 12. Let the entire world know through propaganda, speeches, seminars, local and national media that terrorists have hijacked Islam, not the truth, which is Islam hijacked the terrorists. Furthermore in January of 2002, Saudi Arabia's Embassy in Washington mailed 4500 packets of the Quran, videos, promoting Islam to America's high schools--free. They would never allow us to reciprocate. 13. Appeal to the historically compassionate and sensitive Americans for sympathy and tolerance towards the Muslims in America who are portrayed as mainly immigrants from oppressed countries. 14. Nullify America's sense of security by manipulating the intelligence community with misinformation. Periodically terrorize Americans of impending attacks on bridges, tunnels, water supplies, airports, apartment buildings and malls. (We have experienced this too often since 9-11.) 15. Form riots and demonstrations in the prison system demanding Islamic Sharia as the way of life, not American's justice system. 16. Open numerous charities throughout the U.S. but use the funds to support Islamic terrorism with American dollars. 17. Raise interest in Islam on America's campuses by insisting that freshman take at least one course on Islam. Be sure that the writer is a bonafide American, Christian, scholarly and able to cover up the violence in the Quran and express the peaceful, spiritual and religious aspect only. 18. Unify the numerous Muslim lobbies in Washington, mosques, Islamic student centers, educational organizations, magazines and papers by internet and an annual convention to coordinate plans, propagate the faith and engender news in the media of their visibility. 19. Send intimidating messages and messengers to the outspoken individuals who are critical of Islam and seek to eliminate them by hook or crook. 20. Applaud Muslims as loyal citizens of the US by spotlighting their voting record as the highest percentage of all minority and ethic groups in America. * Jerusalem was held by Jordan from 1948 when it attacked Israel until 1967, when it again attacked Israel. Dr. Anis Shorrosh, D.Min, D.Phil, and a member of Oxford Society of Scholars, has traveled in 76 countries. He is a Palestinian Arab Christian American, who is an author, lecturer and producer of TV documentaries. He is author of the best-seller "Islam Revealed" and his tenth book - "Islam: A Threat or a Challenge." - was published in the spring, 2003. You can contact him at PO Box 949, Fairhope, AL 36533, FAX 1-251-621-0507 or phone 1-251-680-7770 or on the net at http://www.focusing-on-islam.com/. This article was published by Koenig's International News.
     
  12. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    Christianity is a relationship with God where as Islam is politics with God !!!That is exactly why I urge to lit the lamp for others. Difficult times have come. This is no more war of wepeans; it is indeed a war of souls !
     
  13. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Amy)
    Christianity is a relationship with God where as Islam is politics with God !!!That is exactly why I urge to lit the lamps for others. Difficult times have come. This is no more war of wepeans; it is indeed a war of souls !
    It's is SO true that is indeed a war of souls...it's really saddening. Allah should be long gone by now...but of course, no, it can't stand up on it's own, Satan has to make it stand, Satan can not be divided by Satan, otherwise it would be destroyed. And we know Satan will heal the political beast when he comes.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
     
  14. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Sure. Oinos. I don't see people getting drunk off of the wine God's wrath. Again, "Oinos" means "fruit of the vine". Apparently, in this case, it is the fruit of God's wrath.I do not see what your point is: this verse is inapplicable to the discussion of what "Oinos" is.
    You know, this is really a joke here.Taken from Strong's:
    3631. oinos oy'-nos a primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin (3196)); "wine" (literally or figuratively):--wine.
    http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon...631&Version=kjvhttp://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?...on&isindex=wineI think this is kind of clear to show your outright lies about the word. It's wine. There's nothing in there about grape juice.This is the word used in I Timothy 5:23. Look it up in any KJV and Strong's, or better yet take a look at the manuscripts via Green's Interlinear.So now the question becomes - do you have any real sources to back up what you're saying, or is it just your opinion because you don't like wine?Guess what?When our Savior made wine in John 2, it's yet again the same word as above!http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.p...9&version=KJV#9Now we jump to Revelation 17:2 to illustrate the point one more time...Revelation 17:2
    With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
    Now...again the same word as used before. I'm not sure about you, but I've never gotten drunk off of any grape juice. It's obvious, both looking at Strong's and even following the word in the Bible, that it means specifically wine. I don't have to make up definitions to prove that.ttp://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.pl?book=Rev&chapter=17&verse=2&version=KJV#2
     
  15. butxifxnot

    butxifxnot New Member

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    There is more to this verse than a blind person can see.
    You are RIGHT.But what I'm TRYING to SHOW you is that there is a DIFFERENCE between NEW and OLD wine, even though BOTH are referred to as "WINE".JUST because JESUS made "WINE" DOESN'T mean that He made OLD WINE, because He could've just as EASILY and FEASIBLY made NEW wine, and the BIBLE would've worded it EXACTLY the SAME WAY! :eek:If you didn't have the attitude that everything you believe is correct, objective, and God-inspired truth, then you'd be able to see this EASILY and this discourse would've been about 7 posts shorter.
    The difference between me and you is I made a misquote by mistake You are purposley trying to to mislead and twist the word just as Satan himself will do.
    Of course. And you don't even have to look up what I'm saying to know that. *nods* You are amazing. I actually have to THINK about what others are saying before being able to dismiss them.
     
  16. butxifxnot

    butxifxnot New Member

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    (Denver;18569)
    You know, this is really a joke here.
    That I can agree with. x_x You three are simply amazing at how you can miss the nose on your faces...
    http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?...on&isindex=wine
    HEY! [​IMG] That site is awesome! Thank you! *favorites*
    I think this is kind of clear to show your outright lies about the word. It's wine. There's nothing in there about grape juice.
    You haven't read a word I've said proving that it could be.I'm done, Denver. I'm not repeating myself. It's sad that I'm considering putting the webmaster on my ignore list because it feels like that's what he's done to me.
    This is the word used in I Timothy 5:23. Look it up in any KJV and Strong's, or better yet take a look at the manuscripts via Green's Interlinear.
    OINOS
    So now the question becomes - do you have any real sources to back up what you're saying, or is it just your opinion because you don't like wine?
    I already have multiple times to Ms Kross. I wish you'd read all of it instead of one post.Here's a challenge:quote EVERY post I've made here, and if your challenge to me hasn't been answered by something I've already said, I'll start completely over and apologize to both you and Ms. Kross.
    Guess what?When our Savior made wine in John 2, it's yet again the same word as above!http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/c.p...9&version=KJV#9
    Yep.Jesus also talked about putting new wine in new wineskins vs putting new wine in old wineskins. Same word. The new wine, though, is NEW. Kinda like the word used in the OT.Oh, my goodness, I'm sorry, I'm making my challenge to you easier.
    Now...again the same word as used before. I'm not sure about you, but I've never gotten drunk off of any grape juice. It's obvious, both looking at Strong's and even following the word in the Bible, that it means specifically wine. I don't have to make up definitions to prove that.
    I didn't either. I just have to show you a few spots where we're talking about *cough* NEW wine. New wine hasn't fermented. WE don't even USE the term "new wine" because "wine" implies fermentation. We just say "juice" if it isn't alcoholic. The Greeks language and the Hebrew language alike has NO distinction like this. (NOT my opinion: pure fact. If you disagree, PROVE IT).Are you so sure that I'm a fool and fake that you dismiss me without even reading all of what I say?
     
  17. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    The problem is, it's not anything to do with old versus new wine in these verses. The word is specifically about the Greek word oinos which means one very specific thing when you look it up; wine.It doesn't mean "grape juice" and it's honestly sad to sit here and see someone actually suggest that it does. It's political correctness run amok with the Word. It's a tragedy.Even the new wine is on the way to making wine...not grape juice. That's why the word for wine is used, because it is wine (oinos). This isn't about trying to explain away oinos to make it mean grape juice, because it doesn't. You're taking a single instance and running with it, I think that's pretty clear for all to see.By the way, I must be one heck of a mind reader if I am answering your posts with you on the ignore list. [​IMG]
     
  18. elmo

    elmo New Member

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    I want oppinions on what Im about to say2 corithian 6:16 "...ye are the temple of the living God..."Because we are the temple of God doesn't that make us holy in the sence the "holy spirit" is holy.We maybe sinners but only those who believe in God and are baptised in water will receive God's spirit, which is to say (the holy spirit)so if God is in us he will overtake our whole body transforming it into holyness because God is holy and he not just a spirit he is the "holy" spiritin reguards to wine, doesn't hurt our body and therefore corrupt God's temple?please reply your thoughts on this issue are very important to me.
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    It's OK to drink wine. Perfectly fine...If it wasn't good, why did Yahshua made water into wine? (John 2:1-11) It's OK to drink it in moderation. I used to go against this, because it was alcohol.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.I Timothy 5:23 - Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities............... Nevermind foolish question ...................Does it mean that I'm forbidden to drink water in my life? I still do, but I'm in the mood of asking.
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (elmo;18681)
    I want oppinions on what Im about to say2 corithian 6:16 "...ye are the temple of the living God..."Because we are the temple of God doesn't that make us holy in the sence the "holy spirit" is holy.We maybe sinners but only those who believe in God and are baptised in water will receive God's spirit, which is to say (the holy spirit)so if God is in us he will overtake our whole body transforming it into holyness because God is holy and he not just a spirit he is the "holy" spiritin reguards to wine, doesn't hurt our body and therefore corrupt God's temple?please reply your thoughts on this issue are very important to me.
    II Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the Temple of God with idols? for ye are the Temple of the living God; as God hath said, "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."There is absolutely no room or agreement between the things of the world and things of God, between God's Word and idols. It is an abomination to God to have even an idol in the house of God. That church house is not the Temple of God, but you are the Temple of God when you are a child of the living God. It is in your flesh body and inner self that the Spirit of God dwells and operates. This is why when you stand as the ambassador from God, as His sign post with the Spirit of God within you, your body then is the Temple of God. "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God and they shall be My people." God gave his promise in Leviticus 26:12: "And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be My people." He is our Father when we are in Him, and that is why we have so much power when we walk His way and carry His armor that is one and in place. Now as for water baptisim it has nothing to do with anything. Accepting Christand repenting for your sins in his name opens your heart to the holy spirit.As I have said we are saved by grace not water. This water baptism teaching has been taken out of context by todays churches. It serves only as outwardpromise between the person and God that you are accepting his grace of forgivness of your sins though Jesus Christ. While this maybe of utmost importance to the person being baptied an desired by most.It is not a condition of being saved. Wine in small amounts is good for the body it is only when done to excess that it becomes harmful. as in all things moderation is the key here.
     
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