Escape the Great Tribulation

[crooner]

kimare there good websites to go to to read more about your beliefs. I agree with you on a lot of things too.Crooner

 

[kkboldt]

(crooner;26365)
kkboldtdoesnt amillennialism believe Jesus has come already? If so 1st and 2nd Thess clears that up very clearly.
Hi Crooner,I think you are thinking of "Preterists"? They believe ALL of prophecy as been fulfilled and Jesus came already. I do not subscribe to this theology.Amillennialists do NOT believe Jesus has come already. The Reformation Fathers were "amillennialists", that is, they believed that the Kingdom of God has no end. For this reason they do not believe in a "literal" 1000 year rule of Christ at the end of the age, which will end in allowing Satan to be loosed from his prison to deceive the world. They believe that when Christ Returns, he will rule forever. They also believe "most", not all of prophecy has been fulfilled during last 2000 years and Jesus's return is "imminent".The prophecy of Jesus in the book of Isaiah states this:Isaiah 9:6-7 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."The Apostle Paul wrote, "the last enemy to be destroyed is death".1 Corinthians 15:24 "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."1 Corinthians 15:26 "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."Rev 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."I believe Satan is going to be "destroyed for good", never to rise again, along with all of the other "dark" powers of the world that were caused by the "beast", "false prophet", and those who rule "Mystery Babylon".Now what about the 1000 years?Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Now what is the FIRST RESURRECTION?Some believe this has to do with Rapture. But this is what the Reformation preachers believed....The "first resurrection" is a "spiritual resurrection", or the "rebirth" process, or being "born again".Therefore it is those who have been "reborn again" who figuratively become priests of God and of Christ and reign with him. The thousand years, in my opinion is not a "literal" thousand years, but symbolic of the "church age or Reformation age". It is after THIS time in which Satan has been loosed to deceive the nations, BEFORE Christ returns. The AGE of the BORN AGAIN believers is NOW.The Great Reformation was a significant period in time. Protestants broke free from the tyrannical Roman Church and a New Age was begun. I believe this is the "thousand years" that is referred to in the book of Revelation.I believe that is what we are seeing in our world today, the "deceiving of the nations" by Satan. The second resurrection is a bodily resurrection of the saints as the Apostle Paul wrote in 1 and 2 Thessalonians. And this occurs during the Second Coming of Christ.So let's see what the book of Revelation states:Rev 20:7-9 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."-------------Doesn't it make more sense that Gog and Magog are gathered together BEFORE Christ returns? Because NOTE: "fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them". And this should fall during the Protestant church era?Therefore, the thousand years must be BEFORE Christ returns, thus "amillennialist" theology.In other words, the 1000 years has nothing to do with a Pre-return of Christ or a Post-return of Christ, but the AGE in which the church was coming out of persecution and the formation of the great Protestant denominations.Kim

 

[crooner]

thanks KimI agree with this theolgy a lot!!! is there some websites where I can read more?

 

[kkboldt]

(crooner;26371)
thanks KimI agree with this theolgy a lot!!! is there some websites where I can read more?
Here are some for starters.... : )http://www.historicism.net/reading.htmhttp://www.thebibleeducator.org/http://www.truthinhistory.org/http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives.htmlhttp://www.historicism.com/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amillennialismhttp://www.the-highway.com/amila_Hoekema.htmlhttp://www.prca.org/articles/amillennialism.htmlhttp://www.theopedia.com/Amillennialismhttp://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/welcome/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicism_(...ian_eschatology)Kim

 

[kkboldt]

(kkboldt;26376)
Here are some for starters.... : )http://www.historicism.net/reading.htmhttp://www.thebibleeducator.org/http://www.truthinhistory.org/http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives.htmlhttp://www.historicism.com/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amillennialismhttp://www.the-highway.com/amila_Hoekema.htmlhttp://www.prca.org/articles/amillennialism.htmlhttp://www.theopedia.com/Amillennialismhttp://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/welcome/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicism_(...ian_eschatology)Kim
And here is another good site:http://www.1335.com/othertopics.html

 

[Jordan]

Dear kkboldt (Kim)Satan hasn't even gotten kicked out of Heaven yet. He hasn't yet claim to be God at Jerusalem (II Thessalonians 2) And Christ won't be back until the seventh trumpet comes. When the seventh trumpet comes, we will be changed back to our spiritual bodies. (I Corinthians 15:50-44, I Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 11:15) After the millennium Age (1000 human years), Satan will come back down for a little season. (Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7) We are still stuck in our flesh body.Jag

 

[kkboldt]

(thesuperjag;26381)
Dear kkboldt (Kim)Satan hasn't even gotten kicked out of Heaven yet. He hasn't yet claim to be God at Jerusalem (II Thessalonians 2) And Christ won't be back until the seventh trumpet comes. When the seventh trumpet comes, we will be changed back to our spiritual bodies. (I Corinthians 15:50-44, I Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 11:15) After the millennium Age (1000 human years), Satan will come back down for a little season. (Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7) We are still stuck in our flesh body.Jag
Hi Jag,Well that depends on one's theological belief. If you prefer the "futurist" interpretation of these passages, that's okay. But I disagree with the futurist interpretation.This is the interpretation held by "pre-millennialists" who are mainly the Evangelical/Dispensationalists. First of all where does it say that "Satan hasn't been kicked out of heaven, yet?"And where does it say that Satan is even IN heaven right now?The book of Revelation states that "that ole Serpent, the Dragon, was cast to earth along with "one third of the stars" (his followers). This happened already a long, long, time ago.How do we know this?Let's read on....Revelation 12:12-13 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."Who is the WOMAN of Revelation, chapter 12, who brought for the "man child"? Is this not Israel and the man child, "Jesus"?If so, then this ALREADY happened.The Book of Revelation contains prophecy of "things which are past, things which were present in John's time, and things yet to come."What do the opening verses state in the book of Revelation?Revelation 1:1-3 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.NOTE: SHORTLY COME TO PASS, and THE TIME IS AT HAND.John's revelation BEGAN at that time and will culminate at the end of this age.I agree Christ won't come back until the end of the age. I don't believe the 1000 years to be a "literal" thousand years, but signifies the "church age" or "the age of spiritual rebirth", or "the age of the born again believers."I believe in a literal resurrection of the body. This is the "second resurrection". The first is spritiual and the second is a bodily resurrection. I stated this above.Yes, we are stuck in these bodies till the end. But then, if we are dead before he comes, we will raised in NEW bodies.Did not Jesus say:Matthew 9:17 "Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved."Mark 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.Luke 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.Now what did Jesus mean by this?Is not the wine, the spirit? And are not the "bottles" our bodies?A new body and a new spirit. The new spirit comes first. That is the "rebirth" process.Then we will receive a NEW body. One that is not "corruptible" or subject to corruption or decay.As the Apostle Paul stated in 1 Corinthians, chapter 151 Corinthians 15:52-53 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."Was Jesus raised up in a physical body that one could touch?Did not Thomas place his hands into the wounds of Jesus, and say, "My Lord and my God!"Was not Lazarus raised in a physical body?We will have a "bodily" resurrection just as Jesus did, HOWEVER, we have NEW bodies not subject to corruption and death. We will regain the immortality that Adam and Eve lost when they disobeyed God.So yes, for now, we are still stuck in this body. But we have a NEW SPIRIT renewed through Christ. That's what being "reborn" means. That's what the "baptism of fire" is all about. We go through a "spritual cleansing".Genesis is about "Paradise lost". The New Testament is about the "Restoration of Paradise" to earth. The word "redeem" means to "buy back that which was lost".Kim

 

[Christina]

Sorry kkI dont believe that there is absoulty no evidence that the last 2000 years has been the tribulation Seems the more reading people do outside the Bible the more they come up with these therory then they look for the scriptures to support their theroysThe last 2000 years has been the time of the gentiles not the tribulation.The so called great tribulation is Satans tribulation it does not start till Satan is here defacto 5th/6th trump then after this tribulation Comes Gods tribulation which is the seventh trump.Yes I do believe that one day with the Lord is as a thousand days on earth(to men)but that has nothing to do with the lasy 2000 years being the tribulation.The thing is you can find scripture to support most most anything but if you dont keep the Word rightly divided then you have have to ignore parts or you have contradictionsSatan was free to walk to and fro upon the earth (Job) untill the death on the crosswhere for all intensive purposes he was conquered he is physically now held by Satan untill he is kicked unto earth.Sounds like you had it more right before you started reading so much stuff written by men(be careful of men ) You seem to missing some of the keysThe only parable God told us we had better learn was the parable of the fig tree Parable of the Fig Tree --------------------------------------------------------------------------------PARABLE OF THE FIG TREE(A Parable God tells Us To Learn)------------------------------------------------Everyday its seems we hear or see somthing else about the "END TIMES".We watch to see if God's prophecy's are being played out on the world stage.God tells us that no one knows the hour or day of the return of Christ.However he tells us we should watch and know the season,just as we know when the leaves turn colors and begin to fall,that the seasons are going to change,God tells us to watch for the season of the "End Times"Matthew 24, Mark 13 ,Luke 21, all tell us of the signs of this season,there will be false prophets,wars,rumors of wars,and earthquakesbut these things have always been so how do we know when we are supposed to start watching for this particular season? When being asked of these things Jesus gave a parableLuke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable;Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;Luke29:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selvesthat summer is now nigh at hand.Luke29:31: So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass,know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.Luke29:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,till all be fulfilledA parable is simular to a riddle meaning there is a mystery or hidden meaning in the words. It is saying more than the surface words.So what does this riddle say? It has long been understood by biblical scholars that trees represent"Nations" and the "Fig Tree" represents IsraelSo taking this into account the parable would now read:Behold Israel, and all the NationsWhen they come forth,yea shall know the season is at handSo likewise when you see these things come to pass,know that the kingdom of God is close at handI say unto you,This generation shall not pass away till all things be fufilledNow that we know what the parable says lets inspect it futher. Behold Israel.Israel became a nation,for the first time since Christ's time on May 14,1948 (U.N ratified 1947)NationsThese are the nations that the bible says exsist in the end timesGenerationWhat Generation is it speaking of? the generation that see's Israel become a Nation So we can now see that the Parable of the Fig Tree tells us that the generation that saw the 1948 formation of the state of Israel is the generation that will see the "End Time events and the return of Christ.A generation in the bible is 40 years,70 years,or 120 years.Although we can not completely rule out 120 year generation people in our day do not normally live to 120 years old so it would seem that 40 years or 70 years would be more likely however 40 years has already passed, so by process of elimination we are left with 70 year Generation. God does not say he will wait the full 70 years, only that the generation will not all pass away before the end comes.We are fast aproaching the 70th year May14, 2008 will complete 60 years of the 70 year generation.And the 70 years ends May 14,2018There is another important date that we are approaching that may shed more light on where we stand in the time line.East Jerusalem was part of the so called occupied territories untill the Six Day War of June 5,1967. When Israel finally took position of all of Jerusalam.Which completed the current day state of Israel.In June 2007 Israel will celebrate the 40 year aniversery of the possession of Jerusalam.Forty(40) is an important number in Gods word and often signifies completeness or fullness of time.kriss....................................

 

[Christina]

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"This verse is the key to understanding the book of Revelation. Without a clear and full understanding of it, the entire book just will not make sense. The sequence of order will seem strange. "I"; this is John speaking and telling us where he was. "I was in the Spirit", not in his flesh body; "on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet". John is taken forward in time, "in the Spirit", to the day of the Lord. The "Day of the Lord" is not referring to Sunday or Saturday. This is the same "Day of the Lord" Paul speaks about in I Thessalonians 5:2, as "coming as a thief in the night". Later in II Thessalonians 2:2-3 Paul makes it clear that at the "Day of the Lord" Christ's return will not happen until "after there will be a great falling away first; and "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". Satan must be revealed in his role as the Antichrist first, before that seventh trumpet can sound, the last trumpet.The time, or day, John was taken to was beyond our time frame, however we are living in the generation that will see it come to pass, and live through what John saw and lived, while in the Spirit. There is only one day that is called "The Day of the Lord" in all the Scriptures.Isaiah 2:12 "For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low."This is the day that our Lord returns. This is the day "God's cup of wrath" is poured out upon His enemies. So John was taken in the Spirit to the last day of this earth age, before the start of the age of the Millennium. If you are still in your flesh body, that day hasn't happened yet, and it is still future to us.Every verse that you read in Revelation from this verse to the end of chapter twenty two, will be viewed from the Lord's day, either looking backwards or forwards a short period of time. If you don't come to that point of time in your understanding with John, the rest of what he is saying just will not make sense.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

Christ, what do you have to Say about Revelation 12? About Satan trying to devour the Man-Child and Israel? I'm not disagreeing I just want to see your view.

 

[kkboldt]

Kriss wrote:"Sorry kkI dont believe that there is absoulty no evidence that the last 200 years has been the tribulation Seems the more reading people do outside the Bible the more they come up with these therory then they look for the scriptures to support their theroys The last 2000 years has been the time of the gentiles not the tribulation."Hi Kriss,I didn't say there was "absolutely no evidence that the last 200 years has been the tribulation".I don't understand your statement.What is the "time of the gentiles"? How long did does it last? Are there scriptures that tell us?Kriss wrote: "I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away till all things be fufilled."ME: Ah, now this is "Key" to understanding HOW to read the Olivet Discourse of Matthew, chapter 24.The question is, is it all "one consecutive prophecy", or are there two main prophecies in Matthew 24? One that is "imminent" and one that is future?Was Jesus mainly speaking of things in the "future" or was he speaking about things "which are present, things which must shortly come to pass, and things that will come in the future?Are we "assuming" he was speaking of ONLY end times prophecies?Let's look again at the first verses of Matthew 24.Remember, you believe that a "generation" is 40 years? Or at least one of the interpretations, right?How many years from the time Jesus began ministering to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD? Was not Jesus 30 years old when he began his ministry? And is it not 40 YEARS from then that we arrive at 70 AD. A Generation?Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, THIS generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.What THINGS is Jesus referring to?And what "generation" is Jesus referring to in that particular verse? The generation of his day of 40 years? Or the generation of the "future"?Matthew 24 is split into TWO main prophecies. The first are about the coming destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. That in itself is a "time of trouble". This is an "imminent" prophecy. The second main prophecy is in regard to the end times.Matthew 24:1-2 "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."Can we agree that Jesus was speaking of the destruction of the Temple? And did not Romans (gentiles) destroy the temple in 70 AD in THAT generation which was 40 years?What about this?Matthew 24:15-21 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."Is this not about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD which happened in the land of Judea? Did not the Jews have to flee their land to escape the Romans?What is the "abomination of desolation"? Is that not when the Romans destroyed the temple in 70AD and set up their statue of Jupiter in the place of the Holy of Holies? You don't think the Jews and Israelites thought this was "tribulation"?What else does Jesus say?Let's go to Luke:Luke 21:20-24 "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."Now this prophecy is even more specific. Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."Now what is the "times of the Gentiles". Was not ROME the dominant world power back then? And are they not "gentiles"?How do we know how long the "times of the Gentiles" is? It is 3 and 1 half years or 42 months. How long did it take the Romans to destroy Jerusalem in 70AD? 42 months or 3 and a half years. The 1260 day prophecy.Let's go to Revelation, chapter 11.Revelation 11:2 "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the GENTILES: and the holy city shall they tread under foot FORTY AND TWO MONTHS."How long did it take the Romans to destroy Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD? 42 months.Remember what John on the Isle of Patmos stated in the first chapter of Revelation?Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"SHORTLY come to pass. That doesn't mean somewhere out in the distant future, It means an "imminent" prophecy. To John, the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple was imminent.------------You said it yourself, Kriss, "righty dividing the word of God". How are we reading the Word? That means paying attention to the "details". The little things that get missed, right?Now that doesn't mean I believe that ALL of what Jesus said has already been fulfilled. I think I've made it clear that there are still some things that must happen yet.Kim

 

[Christina]

The destructruction of temple in 70 Ad was only type the bible is full of them when you start using the types as the actual events you get into trouble. Christ said there would not one stone that would be left upon the other as you say if we pat attention to details not one stone upon another What do you call the wailing wall if not stones left upon another??The roman gen. Titus was only a type of whats to come Jesus prophecy tells us that "there shall not one stone upon another," and that condition has not happened yet. All of the stones of the temple will be turned to dust, at that end of this earth age. Zechariah 14 gives us a profile of how Jerusalem will be, and the events that shall transpire at that time. When Satan has taken his seat in Jerusalem, fulfilling the role of the Antichrist. As I said the key is Parable When you see him gather his people back to Israel that is when the time starts.To miss the time of the gentiles is to miss the whole big pictureIn the old testament before Christ Salvation was only open to the Jewsit is when God divorced Israel It was the death on the cross that issued in Salvation for all (gentiles)It issued in the time of Salvation by Grace (not a tribulation)Shortly means nothing it does not mean imminent shortly in whose time ours or Gods(1000 years = 1 day)He uses the same term in Rev 22:6 and this is clearly after his coming Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Rev 22:6 ¶ And he said unto me, These sayings [are] faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. ......................................You have to keep your chapter subjects straight This eleventh chapter of Revelation is going to reveal to us something that is going to happen just prior to the gathering back to our Lord Jesus Christ, and it will be the revealing of the two witnesses, and what shall happen to them. It is no secret for God is letting His elect know these events in advance. Revelation 11:1 "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God,"This "reed" John was given, was not for making a measurement. The reed was a "scepter"; a rod not for building something, but for destruction. The destruction is for the tearing down of the temple of God, the altar, and all of them that worship within. The reason for this destruction is because at this time the Antichrist will be sitting on the throne of God in the temple, making sacrifice to himself, and the people of the world will believe he is God.This is the time of the "abomination by the desolator", spoken of in Daniel 9:27, and at that time, Satan, the "son of perdition" (Satan)will be revealed in the temple at Jerusalem, as recorded in II Thessalonians 2:2-4.II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."This warning by Paul the Apostle is to alert those living in our generation, that generation living here on earth in their flesh bodies just prior to Jesus second coming that another event shall happen first. If you know in your mind and expect it to happen, then the things that are going on around us at this time will not shake our faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. It is given so that we will not be taken in by Satan when he moves to take control with the authority that God shall give him for that short period of time. II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,"The day that is the subject here is "the day of the Lord", also called "the day of Christ". That is the day that Jesus Christ returns to earth and all flesh is changed into their incorruptible bodies, and the Millennium kingdom of Christ begins. Paul is telling us this, because Jesus had revealed this fact to him, and our Heavenly Father expects all of his elect to be aware of this knowledge. The "man of sin" is "the son of perdition" and he is also know as "Lucifer", the "great dragon" and by many other names for the roles that he plays. Of course we are talking about Satan. Satan will be the person that must be revealed in this role before Jesus Christ returns at the sounding of the seventh trumpet, and on that day, Satan's role of the Antichrist is over. So Paul is warning us; "Let no man deceive you by any means", not by some revelation of a evil spirit that appears to be from God, not by some church minister or tradition that seems so right or any other means that the men and women of this world age might use to draw you to Satan upon his coming to this earth. Sure Satan is coming to earth, and he is bringing all his spiritual forces with him. We will read of this in the next chapter. Revelation 11:2 "But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gen'-tiles [nations]: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."The lamentations of Jeremiah recorded this future destruction about 588 B.C., in Lamentations 2:8. "The line" that was stretched out is the scepter that John has been given. Lamentations 2:9, "Her gates are sunk into the ground; he hath destroyed and broken her bars; her king and her princes are among the Gen'-tiles [nations]: The law is no more [where the law is not]; her prophets also find no vision from the Lord."Notice that this future destruction is complete, and the king is spelt with a small "k". The princes of Zion in fact today call themselves Gentiles. For they simply do not know who they are. Even today God's laws are being so altered by religious men that they go against the Word of God.The prophets of the house of Israel have no vision from God, because they truly will believe Satan to be God. Their preachers and doctrines are leading them to believe so. "Measure the temple", is referring to the religious form, and all Satan's followers are to be measured for destruction. Though the inner part is destroyed, the Gentile part of the temple will be left standing. This part includes much of the Christian world, because they still think they are Gentile.We see the time period of this rule of Satan is forty two months. Again, all time dealing with Satan and his children are given in months. Don't get anxious about this three an a half year period, because we read in Revelation 9:5, 10, that this time is shortened to five months, during Satan's rule.Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth)

 

[Christina]

What is the subject of the chapter? what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"This mount of Olives is less then a mile from the eastern gate of the temple city. Jesus is alone with His disciples, and this matter bothered them as to what would it be like at His second coming, and the end of this earth age. Jesus went to great detail of what the events and signs would be just before His second advent, that would mark the end of this flesh age.Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you."This is the number one warning, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Deception will be the foremost thing to guard against in the latter days, that will consummate the end of this age. This means that these events will not happen all at one time, but will take place over a period of time. These warnings or signs that Jesus is about to give us, are the seven seals that are given us in the Book of Revelation. These are an exact overlay of the seven events, which are the seven seals that we should be watching for today. At the end of Matthew we will include the thirteenth chapter of Mark, which is an overlay of Matthew twenty four. These events will be spelled out before we are finish, but again, Don't let anyone deceive you. Matthew 24:5 "For many shall come in my name, saying, 'I am Christ;' and shall deceive many."Matthew 24:6 "And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."There has never been a century of so many wars as there has been in the 1900s. Two of the wars included every nation on the earth, while there have been wars of nations, and peoples within nations. Wars of races, and wars of religions. As long as these conflicts are going on, you know that the end simply can not come; "but the end is not yet."These conflicts will keep going on in every part of the world, and it is a sign that the time of Christ's return is close, but not yet. There are other things and events [signs] that must come to pass also prior to the second advent.Before the end comes there will be the cry of peace, and the entire world will go into a "New World Order", a new age government that will govern the affairs of all mankind as equals. This age started over forty years ago, and today has every nation in the world in it's charter as members. What is the opposite of wars and rumors of wars? It is peace, and rumors of peace. When the focus changes from war to peace, then that is the time to pay special attention. When all these conflicts are settled with peace accords, then the one world order will be locked into it's final position. When this happens, the end is near. We will then see the political system, as we know it end, and from it will rise from the people of the world a new beast, a religious best, as spoken of in Revelation 13:3.Matthew 24:7 "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilence, and earthquakes, in divers places."Amos wrote of this famine that shall come in the end times. Remember back in verse four when we were warned against people deceiving us? In Amos 8:11; "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, But of hearing the words of the Lord: The famine is not for bread, my friend, it is for the truths of God's holy Word. God's truths are becoming deluded down where what is taught is an outright lie. The absolutes of the Commandments and being shaded by the scripture lawyers, the same as happened with the scribes and Pharisees. Major earthquake intervals are now weekly in the world, where in the past there were centuries between these events. These quakes are now even happening where they are completely unexpected. This year alone there has been an exceptioal amount of 7+ earthquakes Matthew 24:8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows."This word "sorrows" in the Greek is "Ydin", and means birth pangs. The word is used only here and in Mark 8, and marks the beginning of the travail of childbirth. The number in Strong's Dictionary is 5604, and this is important, because it reflects the intervals between the events of the signs of the end times. This translation loses the message that Christ is telling us; for He is saying that when we see this happening, it is the start of the birth of a new age. In other words, it marks the approach of the birth of the second advent, or coming. The events that mark the end will be growing closer and closer together, and when it reaches a point, the birth will begin. Listen to the labor pains of this generation. The political beast is already here in the form of the United Nations, and that beast just celebrated its first fifty years.Matthew 24:9 "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."Revelation 11 tells us of the two witness that will prophecy, and cause much hardship on the peoples of the world. The two of them will preach against Satan, the Antichrist and they will match Satan's deceiving wonders with wonders that God placed in them. In that day, you will either know them as the witness of God, or you will think them to be trouble makers and against God. There will be no straddling of the fence. Should you be on the side of the two witnesses, you will be hated by all peoples, including family and friends, not because of your deeds, but because you sided with the two witnesses. Those two witnesses represent "my name sake", which is the true Christ.In the phrase, "No man knoweth the hour nor the time," though no man knows the instant of the time of Christ's coming, Jesus gives you the exact day to start looking for Him. The key to understanding is in Revelation 11:8, 9.Revelation 11:8; And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." The "street", in the Greek, is better translated "great hall", or "stadium". Jerusalem is the great city where Christ was crucified, and spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, of it is the place where Satan, the Antichrist and his angels and the Kenites will rule from. When the Antichrist slays the two witness, the world will watch for the three days, and it will be the greatest time of celebration this world has ever seen to that point. Revelation 11:9; "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."

 

[kkboldt]

Hi Kriss,The "Wailing Wall" is not part of the original Temple. Did you know this? The Wailing Wall was built by the Romans from the blocks of the outer wall of the Temple platform. It is a "myth" that the wall that is there now is part of the original temple. Besides, where the wall is, is NOT where the Temple stood. The Al-Aqsa Mosque or "Dome of the Rock" is standing where the Temple once stood.So how can the Wailing Wall be what's left of the Temple?As for the rest of what you write. I'm not sure I follow you.If you mean that certain prophecies have "double meanings" then yes, I agree. However, the OLD Temple complex has nothing to do with the NEW Jerusalem.Because "the temple made with hands" was destroyed.Jesus died on the Cross, then there was a great earthquake and the vale of the Temple was broken in two. The Mercy Seat in the Holy of Holies was broken by God.When Jesus died, "he said "It is Finished."The "future" Temple prophecy cannot be "future". The NEW Jerusalem has nothing to do with the OLD Jerusalem. They are not even in the same place.Jesus said:Matthew 26:61 And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.The Apostle Paul Wrote:1 Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?1 Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.2 Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.It is finished. The physical "temple" was destroyed never to be rebuilt again.WE are now the Temple and our hearts are the "holy of holies".The NEW Jerusalem is NOT about the OLD Jerusalem.Kim

 

[Jordan]

(kkboldt;26428)
Hi Kriss,The "Wailing Wall" is not part of the original Temple. Did you know this? The Wailing Wall was built by the Romans from the blocks of the outer wall of the Temple platform. It is a "myth" that the wall that is there now is part of the original temple. Besides, where the wall is, is NOT where the Temple stood. The Al-Aqsa Mosque or "Dome of the Rock" is standing where the Temple once stood.So how can the Wailing Wall be what's left of the Temple?As for the rest of what you write. I'm not sure I follow you.If you mean that certain prophecies have "double meanings" then yes, I agree. However, the OLD Temple complex has nothing to do with the NEW Jerusalem.Because "the temple made with hands" was destroyed.Jesus died on the Cross, then there was a great earthquake and the vale of the Temple was broken in two. The Mercy Seat in the Holy of Holies was broken by God.When Jesus died, "he said "It is Finished."The "future" Temple prophecy cannot be "future". The NEW Jerusalem has nothing to do with the OLD Jerusalem. They are not even in the same place.Jesus said:Matthew 26:61 And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.The Apostle Paul Wrote:1 Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?1 Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.2 Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.It is finished. The physical "temple" was destroyed never to be rebuilt again.WE are now the Temple and our hearts are the "holy of holies".The NEW Jerusalem is NOT about the OLD Jerusalem.Kim
On Red words, Matthew 26:61...Christ did not say that, it was the two false witnesses.But yes, Christ is our temple... the scriptures in I Corinthians 3 and II Corinthians 6 has nothing to do with the physical temple...On Orange words, when Christ said that on John. It doesn't mean the prophecy is finished. It is that salvation are now open to the Gentiles. As God is God of the Jews and the Gentiles. It doesn't change the fact that Satan hasn't yet claim to be God at Jerusalem...many will fall for it.New Jerusalem is much later in life. After the Great White Throne Judgement... which is AFTER the Melinneum Age.Jag

 

[kkboldt]

(thesuperjag;26434)
On Red words, Matthew 26:61...Christ did not say that, it was the two false witnesses.But yes, Christ is our temple... the scriptures in I Corinthians 3 and II Corinthians 6 has nothing to do with the physical temple...On Orange words, when Christ said that on John. It doesn't mean the prophecy is finished. It is that salvation are now open to the Gentiles. As God is God of the Jews and the Gentiles. It doesn't change the fact that Satan hasn't yet claim to be God at Jerusalem...many will fall for it.New Jerusalem is much later in life. After the Great White Throne Judgement... which is AFTER the Melinneum Age.Jag
No, actually, Jesus DID say this....John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."John 2:20-21 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body."Jesus spoke of the "temple not made with hands".Hebrews 9:11 "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;"Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; That was my point.The OLD Temple has been destroyed or "done away with", because there is no need for it anymore.As for Satan setting himself up as God.....I tell you that "Satan" or the "Beast" has ALREADY claimed to be "God" in a Temple.That is the Papacy which is supported by the "Beast System". Pope Paul VI wore the "Breastplate of the Jewish High Priest" Caiaphas, and proclaimed himself to be the "High Priest of God". Which is interesting, because JESUS is the "last High Priest after the Order of Melchizidek."So what is the Pope really saying? He's a "stand in" for Christ? And who is Jesus? He is God. The Pope's Latin name is "Vicarius Filii Dei" which is painted over the door to his "Secret Chamber". Vicarius Filii Dei which means, "Vicar of the Son of God".http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Pau...otogallery.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9hR0nObEyMThe papacy is described very well in Bible Prophecy.Daniel 11:36-38 "And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things."Rev 17:3-5 "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."Interesting Papal coin, don't you think?http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2167/leoxiimedalkk2.jpgKim

 

[Jordan]

Of course Yahshua said it in John. But I was actually aiming at Matthew 26:61 because you quoted it from that...so I reread the previous scriptures, and we have two false witnesses that said...so pardon me.

Do you have prove that Satan already came, do you have prove that we are in the 5th/6th trumpet? I don't believe in a pope to tell truth. BUT I have Faith in Christ according to the scriptures...that we aren't at the Tribulation yet,...nor are we at the Melinneum Age.Jag

 

[Christina]

Kimyou seem to be taking literal and figuative and putting them in wrong places yes Chist is a temple so is any human body so was there a temple on the mount that was destroyed in 70 AD so will there be another in which Antichrist will commit the abomination of desolation there was a type of this in 70 AD you are taking types as fulfilments God tells you there is nothing new under the sun Everything that happened before will happen again this is why we look at types past. That doesnt mean it will not happen again the problem with your belief is you think if a simlar thing happened it wont happen again Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.

 

[Christina]

Sorry I wont even discuss TOPICS of the pope or any human being is the antichrist is just plain Not in scripture it is Men talking and I dont deal in men lies a traditions I deal in scriptures. How can you even possably believe any man can cause a delusion so great that the whole world will be fooled into thinking he is Christ be so great that he can cause a delusion so strong that God will shorten the time or even the Elect would be fooled. This is no man it is Satan and Archangel the annoited cherub,the devil the serpent, the man of pertition,the man of lawlessness what ever one of his names you want to call him..........................................................................................Revelation 9:1 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit [pit of the abyss]."The "star" that falls to the earth is the star of Isaiah 14. The star is "Lucifer", who will be the Antichrist once he arrives on earth. Satan is given the key, or authority to the bottomless pit, for this is where Satan's fallen angels are held.Satan is to be God's executioner of God's divine wrath that is to be poured out upon the earth. God is going to give Satan the right to have his way with all who are blind to God's Word. Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Keep this in context it is the 5th trump it has not occured yetAnd there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev 12:13 ¶ And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child]. Now thats what at least 6 or 7 times you are told Satan is coming to earth defacto and will claim to be Christ /the Anti = instead = antichrist It is the same story from Gen who wants to be God has always wanted to be God it is what the rebellion has always been about Satan was filled with pride and thought he should be God12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.this has always been his desire

 

[Christina]

Know thy enemyGod did not create Satan. God created Lucifer, the highest angel in God’s angelic kingdom. Lucifer was the anointed cherub (Ezekiel 28:14; Isaiah 14:12,13). Lucifer then of his own free will wanted to be God and receive worship as God. Through his pride and vanity, he fell and became Satan. This event caused a catastropic event to the Original earth to throw it into a state of chaos.Other titles for fallen Lucifer, now Satan: Satan, meaning - the Adversary, Devil - the slanderer, Apollyon - the destroyer, Beelzebub - the prince of demons, Belial - the low, abject one, The Wicked One, The God of This World, The Prince of Darkness, The Dragon, The Tormentor, The Accuser, The Deceiver, The Liar, the Murderer, He that hath the power of death, Abaddon, The Enemy, The Prince of this World, The Tempter.There are a number of Fallen Angels that rebelled with him: Rev. 12:4,9. These angels along with Satan will be imprisoned in the lake of fire for eternal torment.Lucifer’s Reign - The anointed cherub that covereth. God’s most high priest in the mountain of God. Isaiah 14:12-14; Ezekiel 28:13-17. Lucifer was the highest ranking angel that God created. Lucifer and the other angles were created some time before the foundation of the world (Job 38:1-7) Here are the titles and ranks of other Angels found in scripture:Another resourcefor you to study about Angels is a book called “All the Angels in the Bible” by Herbert Lockyer, Jr. This is a rewrite of the original work by his father “The Mystery and Ministry of Angels”. You can purchase this book at Amazon.com Seraphim - Isa. 6:1-7, Psa.24:1, 72:19; Exod. 3:6; Job 4:18, 15:15; I Kings 19:13Cherubim - Ezek. 1:5-18, 10:12, Gen. 3:24Archangels - Jude 9 (Michael, Gabriel)Angels - over 300 times in bible Sons of God - Gen 6:1,2; Job 38:7; Dan. 3:25-28Sons of the Mighty - Ps. 29:1, 89:6,7, 103:20; Isa. 13:3; Joel 3:11 Ps. 103:20; Ps.104:4; Dan. 9:21; Heb. 1:7.Watchers/Keepers - Dan. 4:13-17; Isa. 62:6 Holy Ones - Zech. 14:5; Matt. 25:31; Isa 6:1-3; Dan. 8:13Princes - Dan. 10:13,20,21; 12:1; John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11, Eph. 2:2Thrones - Col. 1:16,Rev. 4:2-11Dominions - Col. 1:16 Powers - Col. 1:16Principalities - Col. 1:16; Eph. 1:21; Col. 2:10; Eph. 6:12The number of Angels created is not exactly known however, the Bible gives us a few hints in Dan. 7:10 and Rev. 5:11. What is the strength of an Angel? Here is one example in 2 Kings 19:20,21,35. What should our relationship be to Angels? Please read Col 2:18; Col 2:8-10; Eph 6:10-12; Eph 1:17-21; I Tim 2:5