Eternal punishment vs eternal life

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

TonyChanYT

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2023
1,725
705
113
63
Toronto
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
New International Version, Matthew 25:

46 Then they will go away to eternal [G166] punishment, but the righteous to eternal [G166] life.
Do these two uses of "eternal" carry the same meaning? If yes, what does it mean?

They are the same Greek word, so I think they carry the same meaning.

Eternal life is immortal life.

The key question is this: What is eternal punishment?

Eternal punishment is the opposite of eternal life. The punishment is eternal death, i.e., annihilation or the absence of life, Revelation 20:

14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Conscious punishment or suffering over an infinite period of existence makes little physical sense. To be conscious, you need a life or a breadth from God (Genesis 2:7). In other words, conscious torment over an infinite time is a form of eternal life. (See Ray Butterworth.)

My translation:

Then they will go away to permanent punishment, but the righteous to permanent life.
See also Does the Bible teach conscious torment over an infinite period?.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and amadeus

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,765
2,422
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
New International Version, Matthew 25:


Do these two uses of "eternal" carry the same meaning? If yes, what does it mean?

They are the same Greek word, so I think they carry the same meaning.

Eternal life is immortal life.

The key question is this: What is eternal punishment?

Eternal punishment is the opposite of eternal life. The punishment is eternal death, i.e., annihilation or the absence of life, Revelation 20:


Conscious punishment or suffering over an infinite period of existence makes little physical sense. To be conscious, you need a life or a breadth from God (Genesis 2:7). In other words, conscious torment over an infinite time is a form of eternal life. (See Ray Butterworth.)

My translation:


See also Does the Bible teach conscious torment over an infinite period?.
Like you I can't say for certain much about the fate of the ungodly. I believe there will be a resurrection for both the wicked and the righteous, according to Dan 12. Would they rise again only to be thrown back into a "2nd Death?"

I'm not sure. Are the wicked raised *before* they are thrown into the Lake of Fire, or are they raised up *in* the Lake of Fire? If it is the latter, they must be raised up to be tormented in the Lake of Fire forever. If they are raised up *before* being thrown into the Lake of Fire, they are either annihilated or prepared for a new kind of life removed by the fire from this world.

I see the Scripture as saying the wicked are raised up *before* being thrown into the fire. And thus, the fire is a mechanism to remove them not from bodily existence, but rather, to remove them from their current state of physical existence in our world.

They may not be "in the fire" forever, but only removed *by the fire from this planet* forever and ever. Being cast into the fire forever may be just like saying they're being "shown the door" forever, not to be tortured forever, but rather, to be permanently separated from the righteous on this earth.

After all, fire is what removes things from the structure they need to exist as such on this planet. Their basic elements may remain as debris, but they themselves are completely removed. A house may leave lots of ash, but once burned down it has been "thrown into the fire" forever and ever! It is gone!

My own personal opinion, which really doesn't count much, is that the wicked are to be somewhat sterilized physically from committing any more physical acts of sin. However, their minds remain unconverted, and their hearts remain poisoned with sin. And so, they are permanently removed from the earth, and are in this way "punished" by losing out on the blessings that God brings to the earth.

It is said that some suffer fewer blows in their punishment, and other more blows in their punishment. I don't view this as an ongoing punishment, but rather, a one-time punishment in settling them in some sort of condition for serving the Lord eternally, though in a diminished, distant capacity.

Some will be further removed from the Lord, and some may suffer a diminished capacity to do good, constructive work. Others may be able to do satisfactory work, with a measure of contentment, though without the blessing of God's close presence. The continuing existence of their Sin Nature, as well as their partial separation from the Lord's presence is what causes the endless depression, in my view.

It may be much like the present world with its endless sense of depression and futility. This is not torturous punishment, but a punishment that establishes a person's permanent status as a sinner separated from God. It is thus a "torment," and not a "torture." I don't think God "tortures." Purely my speculation....
 
  • Like
Reactions: TonyChanYT

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,556
981
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
New International Version, Matthew 25:


Do these two uses of "eternal" carry the same meaning? If yes, what does it mean?

They are the same Greek word, so I think they carry the same meaning.

Eternal life is immortal life.

The key question is this: What is eternal punishment?

Eternal punishment is the opposite of eternal life. The punishment is eternal death, i.e., annihilation or the absence of life, Revelation 20:


Conscious punishment or suffering over an infinite period of existence makes little physical sense. To be conscious, you need a life or a breadth from God (Genesis 2:7). In other words, conscious torment over an infinite time is a form of eternal life. (See Ray Butterworth.)

My translation:


See also Does the Bible teach conscious torment over an infinite period?.
You are getting close to the truth on this, we have to understand what is meant that the wicked perish and sin is no more..
 

Logikos

Active Member
Jan 4, 2024
340
76
28
54
Tomball, TX
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
New International Version, Matthew 25:


Do these two uses of "eternal" carry the same meaning? If yes, what does it mean?

They are the same Greek word, so I think they carry the same meaning.

Eternal life is immortal life.

The key question is this: What is eternal punishment?

Eternal punishment is the opposite of eternal life. The punishment is eternal death, i.e., annihilation or the absence of life, Revelation 20:


Conscious punishment or suffering over an infinite period of existence makes little physical sense. To be conscious, you need a life or a breadth from God (Genesis 2:7). In other words, conscious torment over an infinite time is a form of eternal life. (See Ray Butterworth.)

My translation:


See also Does the Bible teach conscious torment over an infinite period?.
Death does not mean to no longer exist. Death is a separation. If your soul/spirit separates from your body, you are physically dead. If your soul/spirit is separated from God, you are spiritually dead.

As for for whether the lost are punished forever is not a question that can be answered by look at the Greek words used in the text because whichever side of that debate you're on is going to determine your preferred interpretation of those words. A better way of determining the answer is by looking at the results that one doctrine has over the other. You might say that you can make a judgement of the tree by examining the fruit thereof.

People who deny that Hell is forever, almost always deny the deity of Christ. There are exceptions, but the two are very much related because if the problem that Christ's death fixed is a finite problem then there's no need for it to have been God dying on that cross.

Indeed, it is precisely the fact that it was God who died and rose from the dead in victory over sin and death that we know that the issue is one of infinite magnitude. Otherwise, God could have simply created a being of sufficient, but yet finite value, to use as the propitiating sacrifice. But that wouldn't do! God's own life was the only coin noble enough to pay the debt and to satisfy the demands of justice.

Thus, to under estimate the magnitude of Hell is to under estimate the trouble one is in because of sin. In turn, this leads to a rejection of the very gospel itself. For, if you do not believe that Jesus is God (John 1:1-14), you will die in your sin! (John 8:24).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TonyChanYT