Eze 38 and 39 - When

[Truth7t7]

You affirm your opinion. Fine

And your opinion is a dispensationism dream4

 

[Truth7t7]

Correct

king David is a member of the Household of God

King David is dead in the spiritual awaiting the second coming and resurrection?

 

[Truth7t7]

It does not teach that. The bible has Christ returning, not using fire to kill, doesn't kill everyone, and a Millennium happening after his Coming.

Your claim is a fabricated dream

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

 

[Truth7t7]

Using today's geography doesn't cut it. For example mountains will be flattened, land masses like islands move, and etc. There is a new river and valley around Jerusalem for example. So it is possible that a new sea could form in that time or etc etc
We also do not know trucks will operate then. Maybe some change such as an EMP could render them useless.
We do not know that all people fleeing will go east do we? You see there is a lot of speculation in your position.

Your response is a self driven fairy tail

 

[Truth7t7]

He will rule with us. That includes ol king David.

Dream On, When Jesus Returns Its Fire Time (The End)

 

[ewq1938]

Your claim is a fabricated dream

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

No, he doesn't. Rev 19 refutes your unscriptural claim as NO FIRE is used nor is there a final judgment.

 

[dad]

King David is dead in the spiritual awaiting the second coming and resurrection?

The dead in Christ shall arise. The believers also of the old testament will receive new bodies as believers today will. Of course David is alive today. He is not on earth and has not received his eternal body yet. We go to be with God when we die you know? That does not mean we yet have a body like Jesus has, physically raised from the dead. But we are alive and well and in a spiritual body until we do. In the case of those dead in Christ, for example, that happens when we meet Jesus in the air. The dead and we that are alive all go up to receive our new eternal bodies and be with Him forever that way.

 

[dad]

Dream On, When Jesus Returns Its Fire Time (The End)

No use arguing about that. There will be some fire then. But not total destruction of the planet on which He and us will rule of course.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I had always considered the chapters to refer to a time near the start of the last seven years. The northern invasion and intervention from God. Taking a quick review of the prophesy yesterday, I noticed that the prophesy ends when Jesus returns, it seems.


Ezekiel 39:29
Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.

This is not a thread to doubt or debate whether the end time prophesy will happen. It will. No debate possible as far as I am concerned. What we can look at here is timing. One commentator said something like how it is possible if not likely that the terrorist invasion of Israel Oct 7 was a prelude to or first stage of a larger invasion to come from the north. He thought that Eze 38 and 39 was possibly started already. (to his credit he left the possibility open that it was not)

So the question arises what is in the prophesy that pinpoints it to any time before the very end when He returns?

Ezekiel 39:22
So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.

To place the invasion before the time all Israel gets saved in the end when they see Him whom they pierced and repent would mean we have the verse above fulfilled before the nation is saved. Right?
I do not think the nation repents and accepts Jesus before the very end.

Going back further in Eze 39 we see that it also is after Jesus returns.

Ezekiel 39:9
And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

In Eze 38 we see this
Ezekiel 38:23
Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord .

That does not sound like the Tribulation period. Maybe someone can show it does?

Further back in Eze 38 we see this

Ezekiel 38:20

So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.



This also seems to speak of the great shaking in the very end when mountains come down at His presence! How could that be this year or any other time than the very end of the tribulation?



Even back in Eze 37, the time is set and clear.
Ezekiel 37:23
Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 37:24
And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.



That is certainly after Jesus returns and they are saved.



So-can anyone make a case that the invasion is some time other than the end of the tribulation? I can't remember why I used to think it was, probably I just took people's word for it.

Of course it is before Jesus returns and even before the 7year tribulation begins. You must include Ez. 39 as well for that is part of the prophesy. Here is why it happens pre-tribulation.

1. This Gog invasion has limited people invading Israel. Armageddon has the armies of the world.

2. Russia is destroyed and a revival breaks out in Israel.

3. Israel burns the weapons of war for fuel for 7 years, that would require them burning into the millenial kingdom.

4. God says it will happen in the latter years (38:8) not when Jesus returns.

5. when Jesus returns, Israel has fled the land of Israel for its lives as per REv. 12 and Matt. 24. Israel in Ez. 38 is dwelling in the land.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, he doesn't. Rev 19 refutes your unscriptural claim as NO FIRE is used nor is there a final judgment.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

 

[Truth7t7]

3. Israel burns the weapons of war for fuel for 7 years, that would require them burning into the millenial kingdom.

Ezekiel 39:9-10 was a war fought long ago with "Wooden" weapons of warfare, bows, arrows, shields, spears

Your suggestion that it's a "Future" war is laughable, real big smiles

(Historical Events Fulfilled)

Ezekiel 39:9-10KJV
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.

 

[6 Stories]

That makes a lot of sense. The invasion is more or less a part of the final battle of Armageddon. Lots to think about there.

Thanks dad!

 

[ewq1938]

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

I see you didn't cite Rev 19, the passage that shows the killing done by Christ at the second coming. No fire is used.

You posted Malachi 3:2. Do you believe Jesus will kill people with soap? You highlighted fire (badly out of context). Why not highlight soap too?

 

[Davy]

I had always considered the chapters to refer to a time near the start of the last seven years. The northern invasion and intervention from God. Taking a quick review of the prophesy yesterday, I noticed that the prophesy ends when Jesus returns, it seems.


Ezekiel 39:29
Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.

This is not a thread to doubt or debate whether the end time prophesy will happen. It will. No debate possible as far as I am concerned. What we can look at here is timing. One commentator said something like how it is possible if not likely that the terrorist invasion of Israel Oct 7 was a prelude to or first stage of a larger invasion to come from the north. He thought that Eze 38 and 39 was possibly started already. (to his credit he left the possibility open that it was not)

So the question arises what is in the prophesy that pinpoints it to any time before the very end when He returns?

Ezekiel 39:22
So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.

To place the invasion before the time all Israel gets saved in the end when they see Him whom they pierced and repent would mean we have the verse above fulfilled before the nation is saved. Right?
I do not think the nation repents and accepts Jesus before the very end.

Going back further in Eze 39 we see that it also is after Jesus returns.

Ezekiel 39:9
And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

In Eze 38 we see this
Ezekiel 38:23
Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord .

That does not sound like the Tribulation period. Maybe someone can show it does?

Further back in Eze 38 we see this

Ezekiel 38:20

So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.



This also seems to speak of the great shaking in the very end when mountains come down at His presence! How could that be this year or any other time than the very end of the tribulation?



Even back in Eze 37, the time is set and clear.
Ezekiel 37:23
Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 37:24
And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.



That is certainly after Jesus returns and they are saved.



So-can anyone make a case that the invasion is some time other than the end of the tribulation? I can't remember why I used to think it was, probably I just took people's word for it.

Ezekiel 38 alignment of those specific nations is happening today, with Togarmah (modern Turkey) being the last holdout as an ally with Russia ("chief" prince).

The actual battle events of Ezekiel 38 and 39 are for the very 'last day' of this world when Lord Jesus returns on the "day of the Lord". That is the day when Peter showed God's consuming fire will burn man's works off this earth (2 Peter 3:10).

Per Zechariah 14, the "day of the Lord" is when Jesus returns to fight, and gathers His Church, and all go with Him to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, on earth. There He begins His future "thousand years" reign with His elect, on earth, at the "camp of the saints" of Rev.20.

Then Ezekiel 40 thru 47 is about the future Millennium of Christ's "thousand years" reign, with a Millennial sanctuary built on earth by Christ Jesus.

 

[Truth7t7]

The actual battle events of Ezekiel 38 and 39 are for the very 'last day' of this world when Lord Jesus returns on the "day of the Lord". That is the day when Peter showed God's consuming fire will burn man's works off this earth (2 Peter 3:10).

Your claim is "False"

The war seen below is "Historical" fought with "Wooden" weapons of warfare, bows, arrows, shields, spears, "Long Ago"

Will you now claim 2 Peter 3:10 is burning wooden weapons in the homes of Israel for 7 years?

Real Big Smiles!

Ezekiel 39:9-10KJV
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.

 

[Davy]

Your claim is "False"

And you are the man from Shinolah!

The war seen below is "Historical" fought with "Wooden" weapons of warfare, bows, arrows, shields, spears, "Long Ago"

Will you now claim 2 Peter 3:10 is burning wooden weapons in the homes of Israel for 7 years?

Real Big Smiles!

Ezekiel 39:9-10KJV
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.

Wooden weapons? Man how you confuse expressions for war!

So in the Ezekiel 40 thru 48 chapters that follow, Ezekiel was pointing to the PAST also???

I won't even try... to debate Bible with you, since you cannot even understand even little things like the battle of Armageddon on the last day of this world (which is what Ezekiel 38 & 39 are pointing to).

 

[Truth7t7]

So in the Ezekiel 40 thru 48 chapters that follow, Ezekiel was pointing to the PAST also???

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth, Is This True?​

As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

The temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived

Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.

 

[Truth7t7]

So in the Ezekiel 40 thru 48 chapters that follow, Ezekiel was pointing to the PAST also???

Ezekiel Chapters 47-48 Is The Eternal Kingdom, Dont Be Deceived​

Ezekiel Below Is (The Eternal Kingdom) Same River And Tree Of life, Same Fruit On The Tree, Same Leaves Of The Tree For Healing/Medicine, Same Gates Of New Jerusalem With The Names Of The 12 Tribes Of Israel

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Ezekiel 47:12KJV
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Revelation 22:1-2KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Eternal "New Jerusalem"

Ezekiel 48:31KJV
31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

Revelation 21:12KJV
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: