Yes, but it's grossly inaccurate to say that Christians don't put effort into their relationship with God, or that them going through an outward ritual demonstrating their love of God is automatically a bad thing.
FAITH OR RELIGION?
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Riverwalker
Active Member
I quite agree. Its just a question of which comes first....God's love or our work
Even the scripture which is most used to say we are not saved by works, tells us we ARE saved to them
Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Even the scripture which is most used to say we are not saved by works, tells us we ARE saved to them
Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Some people may call themselves Christians but you aren't until you choose Jesus and then you're born again. Being 'baptised' as an infant doesn't count apart from in the beliefs of some religions.
I did not say anything about being baptized as an infant. Nor do I think being baptized as a infant makes you a Christian and am actually very opposed to such ideas.
Still, I find the "faith versus religion" thing to be a misleading idea.
Let's role with an example: Sally is 22 and comes to Christ, having accepting Him and her Lord & Savior. Before now, Sally's friend group was ... very worldly. They actively oppose her trying to live a Christian life and a lot of those friendships end of terminating. Which is really hard on Sally-- yes, it's worth it, but it does hurt and there's always that temptation to go back to her old life. On a good note though: her local church congregation is there for her and she finds much support. Sally is also decides to be baptized, publically displaying her love of Christ.
Is Sally faithful or religious? Both: she does have out displays of her faith, she does have to put effort in, but she also does have that deep relationship with Christ.
Good point @Jane_Doe22 , perhaps I should change the name of the thread to 'Relationship or Religion'.
A true and loving relationship with Jesus or a following a set of religious rules.
But again, a person whom undertakes outward rituals could also have a relationship with Christ -- ideally every believer's baptism should be that, for example. So that's not really an versus thing either.
You could say "things doing out of love of Christ versus not".
I agree with you @Jane_Doe22 , of course they can, but what my thread is about are the ones who have religion and go through the motions without having the deep, life-giving relationship with Jesus.
Ok.
I've just seen lots of folks whom criticize ANY outward display of faith (like a believers baptism) as being "that's religion-- it stands in the way of a real relationship with Christ" or "oh, going to church and fellowship with believers is only religion- it stands in the way of real relationships with Christ".
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friend, Grace And Peace Be Unto you:
(1) Yes, I agree that critics and judgers of others not
"measuring up to their standards" should not be!
a) They ignore the Biblical Fact That: "NONE of us measure up
to God's HOLY Standards!" (Romans 3 : 10-20, 3 : 23 KJB!)
b) Also Scripturally, they ignore God's Word About judging,
In HIS Truth Of Romans 14, Especially verses 8, 10-13, and:
Verse 19!:
"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for
peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."
Much Better Way, correct?
(2) Concerning a "Relationship With God," it is UNBiblical to teach that:
"man {seeking God} develops that "Relationship With Him!" It is Actually
The Other Way Around!
a) Only one thing "stands in the way," of An Eternal Relationship, and that
is the UNrepentant heart the UNbeliever! CHRIST Died For ALL, and ALL
who humbly bow the knee Before Him, believing with ALL their heart,
Actually Perform:
God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:
(a1) believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)
a2) Results: all sins Forgiven, Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
--------- God Establishes This Eternal "Relationship!" {NOT men}
b) Next, This Is What we develop, "growing In God's Wonderful GRACE!"
Since ALL "HIS children that HE Begat" are:
"...Called Into Fellowship With HIS SON, our LORD JESUS CHRIST!..."
-------------------- (1 Corinthians 1 : 9 KJB!), again Simply:
(b1) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE thy neighbor as thyself!"
(Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)
(b2) "Study" HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, for "Approval!"
(2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)
Eternal Fellowship Results: reward, ruling, and reigning With CHRIST!
-----------------------------
3) IF you wish: FULL "baptisms" study is here: 13 Bible baptisms
Precious friend: Please Be Very Richly Blessed, and edified!
I understand to a certain extent why Christians want to emphasize the relational aspect of our walk with God.
But Christianity is a religion. Somebody already quoted the verse about religion that is pure and undefiled.
The world wants to make religion into this evil word. Part of that is their hatred of God and their desire to not submit to His authority.
But Christianity is a religion. Somebody already quoted the verse about religion that is pure and undefiled.
The world wants to make religion into this evil word. Part of that is their hatred of God and their desire to not submit to His authority.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I like the word, spirituality. It's inclusive of the meaning of faith and it also encompasses the relationship the individual Christian, now returned and moving past the barrier between us and Abba father, has in the embrace of the holy spirit.
"Religion" , for me sounds clinical, rather than personal. Like a subject heading instead of a consciousness.
Yipe-O fix, to clinical.
I would agree spirituality the unseen will and power of God that works in the born again believer yoked with him . The idea of sign gifts has no place in matters of faith the unseen eternal .Signs represent the temporal as that seen.
Not the kind of religion by which we could seek His aproval .
Jesu said it an evil generation the generation of Adam no faith that does seek after them in oreder to wonder never coming to the end of faith the salvation of our souls.
Taodeching
Active Member
My faith in God, Christianity is my Religion. Many corners of Christianity just like the world want to redefine words but the truth is Christianity is Religion
I would agree no such things as no religion (belief, faith ) Imagining will not make it disappear.