Focus On The Family

[Grailhunter]

I don't think Paul was the only disciple that preached to the Gentiles. As mentioned, Peter a Jew came to realize that the Gentiles were included before Paul.

You are right, Paul had his group. Peter joined him and there were others that were mentioned. But other than Peter none of the other 12 are mentioned in his ministry.

 

[Grailhunter]

Paul did not come along until around 3 to 5 years after Christ left. Many Gentiles were saved before Paul came along. So, the message was already inclusive of Gentiles. Paul was appointed the disciple to the Gentiles as the one who officially taught the Gentiles how the gospel applied to them.

That would be of interest to me. Show the scriptures of Gentiles being converted before Paul's conversion.

 

[Grailhunter]

In some ways the other disciples were also preachers to the Gentiles all nations in that their audience were non-Jews and they had to adjust the gospel accordingly. I don't think they would have lasted very long insisting that foreigners get circumcised. But they could relate to Christ dying and resurrecting to save them.

It is not going to hurt my feeling if the scriptures say the twelve Apostles preached the gospel to Gentiles. I can tell you that scholars do not think so......You are going to have to show me in scripture.

 

[Grailhunter]

What Paul preached was not some secret. It was the truth of the gospel that all knew, and the other disciples would have realized this like Peter did.

Lets see, we have James, not one of the twelve Apostles and John and Jude to reference so did they say anything about Yeshua being the substitution for sin, redemption from sin, reconciliation, propitiation, justification, adoption into the family of God?
Paul lists the sins that can prevent you from inheriting the kingdom of God.....Did anyone else?

 

[PeterAndroz]

I don't think Paul was the only disciple that preached to the Gentiles. As mentioned, Peter a Jew came to realize that the Gentiles were included before Paul.

Paul did not come along until around 3 to 5 years after Christ left. Many Gentiles were saved before Paul came along. So, the message was already inclusive of Gentiles. Paul was appointed the disciple to the Gentiles as the one who officially taught the Gentiles how the gospel applied to them.

But the gospel was already inclusive in that the holy spirit came upon whoever heard and accepted the simple gospel that Christ died and was resurrected to save us. Peter realized this well before Paul came along.

If the other disciples went to faraway places outside the Roman empire where Judaism was not prominent then there was no pressure to focus on the Jews. The other disciples would have adjusted the gospel according to the audience.

In some ways the other disciples were also preachers to the Gentiles all nations in that their audience were non-Jews and they had to adjust the gospel accordingly. I don't think they would have lasted very long insisting that foreigners get circumcised. But they could relate to Christ dying and resurrecting to save them.

What Paul preached was not some secret. It was the truth of the gospel that all knew, and the other disciples would have realized this like Peter did.

Its only we hear more about Peter, James and Paul because they hung around the place where it all began and this was really the head office where the official teachings came from. Because this is where Jesus came from.

It's no longer an issue today since ALL believers ARE equal
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
.................
And how are believers today saved & sealed ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Grailhunter]

It's no longer an issue today since ALL believers ARE equal
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
.................
And how are believers today saved & sealed ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Great scriptures, but none say you can sin all you want and still go to Heaven. Heaven full of evil? This does not even pass the common sense test. Yeshua the God of sin?

 

[PeterAndroz]

Great scriptures, but none say you can sin all you want and still go to Heaven. Heaven full of evil? This does not even pass the common sense test. Yeshua the God of sin?

So you no longer sin ?

 

[Grailhunter]

So you no longer sin ?

Before we go on I want to make something clear.
Although I know that a Christian can sin their way to Hell. And I am sure there not going to be a bunch of evil in Heaven. How absurd an idea. You are at the heavenly banquet table and you look over and a guy is pouring ketchup on some's arm because he is cannibal.

But people to think that I believe salvation is easily lost. Be good and do good the best you can and ask forgiveness for the rest. It is Yeshua that will judge and He will be judging Christians.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10

 

[PeterAndroz]

Before we go on I want to make something clear.
Although I know that a Christian can sin their way to Hell. And I am sure there not going to be a bunch of evil in Heaven. How absurd an idea. You are at the heavenly banquet table and you look over and a guy is pouring ketchup on some's arm because he is cannibal.

But people to think that I believe salvation is easily lost. Be good and do good the best you can and ask forgiveness for the rest. It is Yeshua that will judge and He will be judging Christians.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10

We all continue to sin in some way.
""For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ ""
- JSOC - for believers SAVED by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 Gospel
....
Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...
+++
The other Apostles agreed & knew who taught who
Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,....
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
++++
What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++
How are believers 'today' saved, sealed, justified, made righteous ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
++++
The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
++++
Your 'deeds'/works/behavior/performance only decide your eternal rewards/loss
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[Grailhunter]

We all continue to sin in some way.
""For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ ""
- JSOC - for believers SAVED by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 Gospel
....
Who did Christ select as the Apostle & Minister to the Gentiles ?
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, ...
Rom 11:13
For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles...
Rom 15:16
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God...
+++
The other Apostles agreed & knew who taught who
Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles,....
Gal 2:7
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
++++
What is the role of an Apostle/Minister ?
To teach THEIR audience.
BUT NOW there are NO SEPARATE audiences ALL are equal :-
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Col 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
++++
How are believers 'today' saved, sealed, justified, made righteous ?
By the SAVING Gospel that applies today.
Gal 1:11-12
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:1-4
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
++++
The PERFORMANCE conditions :-
Titus 3:
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Rom 3:
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
++++
Your 'deeds'/works/behavior/performance only decide your eternal rewards/loss
Rom 14:10
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
1 Cor 3:10-15
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
2 Cor 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

You did this before and yes I have agreed with you that Paul was chosen to minister to the Gentiles.
These are all great scriptures but nothing to say you can sin all you want and still go to Heaven.
Christianity in a moral belief. Yeshua is a moral God. Salvation is not a license to sin. Heaven will not be full of evil.

 

[stevesonthebay]

You are right, Paul had his group. Peter joined him and there were others that were mentioned. But other than Peter none of the other 12 are mentioned in his ministry.

Many gentiles were saved before Paul came along. It is the Holy spirit and not Paul or any disciple.

 

[Grailhunter]

Many gentiles were saved before Paul came along. It is the Holy spirit and not Paul or any disciple.

That would be a great thing. Now show the scriptures that say that.

 

[PeterAndroz]

You did this before and yes I have agreed with you that Paul was chosen to minister to the Gentiles.
These are all great scriptures but nothing to say you can sin all you want and still go to Heaven.
Christianity in a moral belief. Yeshua is a moral God. Salvation is not a license to sin. Heaven will not be full of evil.

Conc :-
Paul does not teach that a sealed believer can become UNsealed

 

[Grailhunter]

Conc :-
Paul does not teach that a sealed believer can become UNsealed

I gave you a bunch of scriptures that clearly say that sin can send a Christian to Hell. Are you saying a sealed Christian can go to Hell. Hug that seal when you are in Hell.