Forgiving others

[WHO ME]

When I was first saved I believed in eternal security but later I saw verses like
Matt 6:14-15 and didnt believe that anymore

If you forgive men their trespassess against you your Heavenly Father will also forgive you....

If you dont forgive men their trespassess neither will your Father forgive your trespasses...

Only believers have a heavenly Father.

I use to hate my stepmother and wanted to buy about 15 feet of spark plug wire plug one end into the coil and other into the gas tank fill neck with a spark plug on it... but years later I read these verses and if I didnt forgive her as a believer I wasnt going to be forgiven by my Father.

Can someone who believes osas explain how this wont lose someone their salvation if they dont forgive others?

Using the above verses only....

And yes I forgave her and now even love her

 

[quietthinker]

When I was first saved I believed in eternal security but later I saw verses like
Matt 6:14-15 and didnt believe that anymore

If you forgive men their trespassess against you your Heavenly Father will also forgive you....

If you dont forgive men their trespassess neither will your Father forgive your trespasses...

Only believers have a heavenly Father.

I use to hate my stepmother and wanted to buy about 15 feet of spark plug wire plug one end into the coil and other into the gas tank fill neck with a spark plug on it... but years later I read these verses and if I didnt forgive her as a believer I wasnt going to be forgiven by my Father.

Can someone who believes osas explain how this wont lose someone their salvation if they dont forgive others?

Using the above verses only....

And yes I forgave her and now even love her

It's helpful understanding Hebrew literary expression. Jesus was saying this in your quoted text.....

1 If you forgive others you will also know/ understand/ believe that you have been forgiven.
2 If you don't forgive others you will loose the ability to believe/ understand God has forgiven you.

Harbouring unforgiveness places us on enemy territory. Maintaining this position will erode our trust/ faith in God's forgiveness of us.

 

[WHO ME]

Quitethinker said: If you forgive others you will also know/ understand/ believe that you have been forgiven.
2 If you don't forgive others you will loose the ability to believe/ understand God has forgiven you

WHO ME replies: but thats Not what it says, it clearly says if YOU DONT FORGIVE and not know understand or believe... you added stuff that isnt there.... clearly it stats if you dont forgive others their trespasses your Father wont forgive you yours.... nothing to do with what you added....

 

[WHO ME]

So we will see below if you dont forgive others you wont be forgiven.

Matt 18:21-35
21) peter ask Jesus how many times he should forgive others who sin against him
22) 7x70
23) jesus then is going to give us an example on this subject with how the kingdom in heaven works
24) the servant owes the king
25) the servant cant pay
26) the servant falls down and worships the king
27) the king forgives the servant
28) the forgiven servant now wants another servant to pay him
29) servant ask to be FORGIVEN
30) the forgiven servant Wont FORGIVE HIM
34) the king is mad and Now the forgiven servant who didnt forgive others is thrown into prison and is Now unforgiven
35) so LIKEWISE shall my Father who is in Heaven will do also to you IF YOU DO NOT FORGIVE thy brother who trespassed against you...


So we see that when someone sins against you after you are forgiven and you dont forgive them, your forgiveness will be taken away, this is how both heaven and God the Father works

 

[Armour of God]

So we will see below if you dont forgive others you wont be forgiven.

Matt 18:21-35
21) peter ask Jesus how many times he should forgive others who sin against him
22) 7x70
23) jesus then is going to give us an example on this subject with how the kingdom in heaven works
24) the servant owes the king
25) the servant cant pay
26) the servant falls down and worships the king
27) the king forgives the servant
28) the forgiven servant now wants another servant to pay him
29) servant ask to be FORGIVEN
30) the forgiven servant Wont FORGIVE HIM
34) the king is mad and Now the forgiven servant who didnt forgive others is thrown into prison and is Now unforgiven
35) so LIKEWISE shall my Father who is in Heaven will do also to you IF YOU DO NOT FORGIVE thy brother who trespassed against you...


So we see that when someone sins against you after you are forgiven and you dont forgive them, your forgiveness will be taken away, this is how both heaven and God the Father works

That's just one reason why I don't believe OSAS.
I don't even believe the salvation process is done until we actually die and meet God.
That's why I never say "I'm saved", past tense, as if it's already a done deal.
The salvation process will be finalised in the future, after death, out of this world

 

[WHO ME]

Peter who knows how hebrew literary expression works, yet he ask Jesus how this is to be handled in the future....

 

[Armour of God]

Peter who knows how hebrew literary expression works, yet he ask Jesus how this is to be handled in the future....

Anyway I see your new here.
Welcome to the forum. I hope you like it
May Gods peace and grace be with you

 

[quietthinker]

Quitethinker said: If you forgive others you will also know/ understand/ believe that you have been forgiven.
2 If you don't forgive others you will loose the ability to believe/ understand God has forgiven you

WHO ME replies: but thats Not what it says, it clearly says if YOU DONT FORGIVE and not know understand or believe... you added stuff that isnt there.... clearly it stats if you dont forgive others their trespasses your Father wont forgive you yours.... nothing to do with what you added....

The Gospel tells us that God has forgiven all our sins....the whole planet. This good news now goes out to all.
The final result individually is determined by ones relationship with others. (see the story of the sheep and goats....Matt. 25:31-46)

 

[WHO ME]

That's just one reason why I don't believe OSAS.
I don't even believe the salvation process is done until we actually die and meet God.
That's why I never say "I'm saved", past tense, as if it's already a done deal.
The salvation process will be finalised in the future, after death, out of this world

Yes..
Philippians 2:12 salvation, why do we have to Work it out with fear and trembling?

If salvation is a done deal, why oh why would I have to work it out with fear?

To Work it out sounds like its a work in progress

 

[WHO ME]

The Gospel tells us that God has forgiven all our sins....the whole planet. This good news now goes out to all.
The final result for individually is determined by ones relationship with others. (see the story of the sheep and goats....Matt. 25:31-46)

Yes but you must forgive others or that forgivness you have recieved thru Christ will be taken away by the Father...seems you missed matt 18:21-35 above which says the same results as matt 6:14-15

 

[WHO ME]

Anyway I see your new here.
Welcome to the forum. I hope you like it
May Gods peace and grace be with you

Thank you Sir

 

[WHO ME]

Notice how Matt 18:21-35 that Jesus is the King who forgives.... remember this is how heaven works and what God the Father will do to you...

 

[WHO ME]

Obviously in Luke 6:37
If you Dont judge you wont be judged.
If you judge you will be judged
If you Dont condemn you wont be condemned
If you condemn you will be condemned
if you forgive you shall be forgiven...
if you dont forgive you wont be forgiven

 

[Lambano]

I don't even believe the salvation process is done until we actually die and meet God.

Ahh, there's core of the problem. What does it mean to be "saved", what happens, and when does it happen?

I once saw an analysis of how sozo (the Greek verb "to save") is used in the New Testament, and sometimes it's a Perfect tense (past event, done deal), sometimes it's aorist (no time reference, typically used for the past tense), sometimes it's a present tense, and sometimes it's spoken in the future tense. It would be easy enough to look it up in Blue Letter Bible, if anyone was interested. Which one applies at any given time depends on the person's circumstances.

The net is, you're not going to find assurance that way, and I'm pretty God did it that way on purpose. And I can think of some good reasons having to do with human psychology as to WHY He would do it that way. We're just going to have to both trust Jesus all the way to the end to save us while obeying what He said about forgiving others and living a life commensurate with salvation. Trust and obey.

 

[WHO ME]

In philippians 2:12 paul tells them to work out their salvation as if they havent attained it yet... but 3:10-12 he is talking about the Resurrection of the dead which would be a future event, he would first die then Christ would come to gather His bride and paul like us will be resurrected..... he says "if by any means I MIGHT attain it, Not that I have already attained it either were already perfect but I follow after, If that I May apprehend that"... thanks Captian obvious... doesnt make sense that paul was letting us know that hadnt happened yet to him since hes still here on earth writing to the phillipians.. could it be that paul is also working out his salvation with trembling and fear?

While I havent given these verses much thought before today this seems only to make sense that way..... ah ah Captian

 

[David Lamb]

Yes but you must forgive others or that forgivness you have recieved thru Christ will be taken away by the Father...seems you missed matt 18:21-35 above which says the same results as matt 6:14-15

I would say rather that if a person doesn't forgive others, that is an indication that they were not saved to start with. Forgiving others is part of the "good works" mentioned in Ephesians 2:

(Eph 2:8 NKJV) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
(Eph 2:9) not of works, lest anyone should boast.
(Eph 2:10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We don't do good works (including forgiving others) in order to become saved, but because we are saved.

 

[WHO ME]

Ahh, there's core of the problem. What does it mean to be "saved", what happens, and when does it happen?

I once saw an analysis of how sozo (the Greek verb "to save") is used in the New Testament, and sometimes it's a Perfect tense (past event, done deal), sometimes it's aorist (no time reference, typically used for the past tense), sometimes it's a present tense, and sometimes it's spoken in the future tense. It would be easy enough to look it up in Blue Letter Bible, if anyone was interested. Which one applies at any given time depends on the person's circumstances.

The net is, you're not going to find assurance that way, and I'm pretty God did it that way on purpose. And I can think of some good reasons having to do with human psychology as to WHY He would do it that way. We're just going to have to both trust Jesus all the way to the end to save us while obeying what He said about forgiving others and living a life commensurate with salvation. Trust and obey.

I see it that if you stay the course your salvation is good to go...
2timothy 4:7 paul stats

I have fought the good fight I have finnished My course, I have Kept the faith...As our example

Paul also says in hebrews 10:26 For if we wilfully sin there is NO MORE sacrifice for our sins....

He ends it at 10:39 But we are NOT of them who draw back to destruction..
(The good news is that if you ask forgivness and start back doing Gods will you are good to go again)
So while you stay the course you have a sacrifice for your sins but if you fall away that sacrifice Ends and those who do fall away draw back to destruction...

The good news is you just repent and start doing Gods works and your good to go, but if not (hebrews 10:27) but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation...

10:38 the Just (saved) shall live by Faith BUT if any man Draws back my soul shall have no pleasure in Him


Pretty clear to me osas isnt true

 

[WHO ME]

I would say rather that if a person doesn't forgive others, that is an indication that they were not saved to start with.

That makes no sense... because if that same man does forgive hes forgiven.... unbelievers or the unsaved cant forgive and be forgiven be God, they would first have to be saved for that to work correct?

 

[WHO ME]

(Eph 2:8 NKJV) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
(Eph 2:9) not of works, lest anyone should boast.

We don't do good works (including forgiving others) in order to become saved, but because we are saved.

James 2:24 ye see then how that by works a man is Justified and Not by faith alone

Grace thru faith and you are saved, but James is talking about the saved believers walk which occurs after grace thru faith... faith without works is dead. Your alive faith which saved you thru grace has now during your walk Died because you have no works.

2:14 he has faith but no works.. can faith save him? His faith is dead... rememeber james is talking about after grace thru faith.

What does it profit if a man has no works?

 

[WHO ME]

2:26 James also compares faith without works being dead the same as the body without the spirit being dead....

The body without the spirit is what an unbeliever has... nothing

People need to realize that after you are saved you must do Gods will or works or your faith becomes dead.... once you do you will see that once saved always saved is wrong....

When your faith is DEAD you have to know you have nothing for God to grow.. but repent of it and start doing Gods works and stay the course