Free Grace Theology

[GracePeace]

Dear GracePeace,
Christ, who is the manifestation of God's Grace, will not rest until He has saved all mankind. He saves mankind by the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. In the end, Christ will save all mankind just as the prophets foretold.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Restated by Paul:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Joe

I want to talk with a FGT about FGT.
You are not FGT.
I am not interacting with your views here (Universalism, etc).

 

[Bob Estey]

I recently spoke with some people who described themselves as "Free Grace".

Does anyone here know anything about "Free Grace"?

They would deny all the passages that "look" like they're talking about loss of salvation had anything to do with salvation. They would even say you could lose your faith and be saved! LOL!

My question is : if, in Free Grace, you can lose your faith and still be saved, what on earth does save?

Jesus saves.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Some reject the fact that free gifts, as grace, can come with conditions and one must meet the condition and continue to meet the condition in order to have the free gift....

Jn 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

One must initially hear and believe to initially receive the free gift of everlasting life and one must keep on hearing and believing (present tense) to keep on having the free gift of everlasting life.

You say "One must initially hear and believe to initially receive the free gift of everlasting life and one must keep on hearing and believing to keep on having the free gift of everlasting life".

This doesn't make any sense at all, you claim that the gift is "free', then you add a bunch of conditions, none of those are found in the bible. We should never add conditions, which God never gave

 

[Lambano]

I recently spoke with some people who described themselves as "Free Grace".

Does anyone here know anything about "Free Grace"?

They would deny all the passages that "look" like they're talking about loss of salvation had anything to do with salvation. They would even say you could lose your faith and be saved! LOL!

Okay; you made me look it up. From Wikipedia Free Grace Theology, here's a summary of what "Free Grace Theology" believes, pretty much in their own words. (I didn't realize J. Vernon McGee, Watchman Nee, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll et. al. were proponents of this theology.) I don't see anything in there about maintaining salvation after "losing faith" because "Confidence" based on God's faithfulness has "Faith" built into it by definition. What, then, is your opponent's definition of "losing faith"? Rejecting Christ while maintaining trust in God?

Belief	Explanation
Faith alone	God declares a person righteous by faith in Christ (imputed righteousness) regardless of works accompanying faith either before or after. John 3:14–17 compares believing in Jesus to the Israelites looking upon the bronze serpent in the wilderness for healing from deadly venom (Numbers 21).
Relationship differs from intimacy	A permanent relationship with God as Father and the believer as a child begins by faith alone. When someone believes, there is a "new birth" and this spiritual birth cannot be undone. However, the familial relationship does not guarantee fellowship; intimacy with God requires obedience.
Justification differs from sanctification	Justification before God is a free unconditional gift by faith alone but sanctification requires obedience to God. Sanctification of all Christians is not guaranteed. Only final glorification of all Christians to a sinless state is guaranteed (Romans 8:30; Philippians 2:12).
Eternal security	Once a person has believed in Jesus Christ as God and Savior that person spends eternity with God regardless of subsequent behavior. God's eternal acceptance is unconditionally given. Belonging to God's family is a permanent and irrevocable gift (Romans 11:29).
Assurance of salvation	Confidence of spending eternity with God is possible for every Christian since God justifies through faith alone and provides eternal security.
Rewards and discipline	All Christians will undergo judgment by Christ based upon their works and degree of conformity to Christ's character (or lack thereof). This is called the judgment seat or Bema Seat of Christ, where Christians are rewarded based on obedience to God through faith. This judgment does not concern heaven or hell but rewards (payment for service) or temporary punishment. God's familial acceptance of his children is unconditionally given. However, God's payments of eternal honor, riches, and positions of authority are only given for children who obediently served God. Good parents discipline their children and will not approve behavior that is detrimental. Neither will God approve sinful behavior that leads to destructive consequences (Hebrews 12:5–11).

 

[GracePeace]

Okay; you made me look it up. From Wikipedia Free Grace Theology, here's a summary of what "Free Grace Theology" believes, pretty much in their own words. (I didn't realize J. Vernon McGee, Watchman Nee, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll et. al. were proponents of this theology.) I don't see anything in there about maintaining salvation after "losing faith" because "Confidence" based on God's faithfulness has "Faith" built into it by definition. What, then, is your opponent's definition of "losing faith"? Rejecting Christ while maintaining trust in God?

Belief	Explanation
Faith alone	God declares a person righteous by faith in Christ (imputed righteousness) regardless of works accompanying faith either before or after. John 3:14–17 compares believing in Jesus to the Israelites looking upon the bronze serpent in the wilderness for healing from deadly venom (Numbers 21).
Relationship differs from intimacy	A permanent relationship with God as Father and the believer as a child begins by faith alone. When someone believes, there is a "new birth" and this spiritual birth cannot be undone. However, the familial relationship does not guarantee fellowship; intimacy with God requires obedience.
Justification differs from sanctification	Justification before God is a free unconditional gift by faith alone but sanctification requires obedience to God. Sanctification of all Christians is not guaranteed. Only final glorification of all Christians to a sinless state is guaranteed (Romans 8:30; Philippians 2:12).
Eternal security	Once a person has believed in Jesus Christ as God and Savior that person spends eternity with God regardless of subsequent behavior. God's eternal acceptance is unconditionally given. Belonging to God's family is a permanent and irrevocable gift (Romans 11:29).
Assurance of salvation	Confidence of spending eternity with God is possible for every Christian since God justifies through faith alone and provides eternal security.
Rewards and discipline	All Christians will undergo judgment by Christ based upon their works and degree of conformity to Christ's character (or lack thereof). This is called the judgment seat or Bema Seat of Christ, where Christians are rewarded based on obedience to God through faith. This judgment does not concern heaven or hell but rewards (payment for service) or temporary punishment. God's familial acceptance of his children is unconditionally given. However, God's payments of eternal honor, riches, and positions of authority are only given for children who obediently served God. Good parents discipline their children and will not approve behavior that is detrimental. Neither will God approve sinful behavior that leads to destructive consequences (Hebrews 12:5–11).

They say you can deny Christ, worship other things, do human sacrifices, and still be saved.

 

[Lambano]

They say you can deny Christ, worship other things, do human sacrifices, and still be saved.

Then they have some idiosyncratic theology, not "Free Grace" theology.

[Edit: I was thinking about it some more. Take a look at this quote:

A permanent relationship with God as Father and the believer as a child begins by faith alone. When someone believes, there is a "new birth" and this spiritual birth cannot be undone.

What do FGTs believe about the "New Birth" (or "spiritual regeneration", to use more classical Reformed nomenclature)? Do they believe a Born-Again CAN permanently deny Christ or worship other things? How much is human responsibility and how much is God's sovereign power at work in the believer?]

 

[Lambano]

Jesus saves.

I saw this graffito back in my college days:

 

[Bob Estey]

I saw this graffito back in my college days:

I've sort of lost track of hockey. How are my Blues doing?

 

[Lambano]

I've sort of lost track of hockey. How are my Blues doing?

Meh. They missed the playoffs last year.

The Avs won the Stanley Cup back in '22. When I texted my buddy in Colorado to congratulate him, he said, "Oh, they won? All anybody here wants to talk about is the Broncos' quarterback situation."

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You say "One must initially hear and believe to initially receive the free gift of everlasting life and one must keep on hearing and believing to keep on having the free gift of everlasting life".

This doesn't make any sense at all, you claim that the gift is "free', then you add a bunch of conditions, none of those are found in the bible. We should never add conditions, which God never gave

Jn 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

This verse, not me, made hearing and believing conditions in order to have everlasting life. It's those who will not hear and/or not believe being the ones who will not receive the free gift of everlasting life, Jn 3:18

 

[Christian Soldier]

Jn 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

This verse, not me, made hearing and believing conditions in order to have everlasting life. It's those who will not hear and/or not believe being the ones who will not receive the free gift of everlasting life, Jn 3:18

Wow, how blind are you. How is John 5:24 a condition to being saved. Christ didn't say I command you to hear Me and believe in Me or I will not save you, that's ridiculous.

John 5:24 is a simple observation, you know like all the other observations. Observations are not commandments, I observe a bird flying because it's a bird, but I don't observe pigs flyi9nmg because they are pigs, how simple is it and you struggle with it. I'd hate to see how you deal with complicated scriptures.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Wow, how blind are you. How is John 5:24 a condition to being saved. Christ didn't say I command you to hear Me and believe in Me or I will not save you, that's ridiculous.

John 5:24 is a simple observation, you know like all the other observations. Observations are not commandments, I observe a bird flying because it's a bird, but I don't observe pigs flyi9nmg because they are pigs, how simple is it and you struggle with it. I'd hate to see how you deal with complicated scriptures.

You are ridiculously implying that one can refuse to hear Christ, refuse to believe Christ yet receive everlasting life anyway. Because hearing and believing are not imperative commands in this verse does not in anyway mean they are unnecessary in obtaining everlasting life.

Making both hearing and believing conditions to obtaining everlasting life therefore makes them both necessary to having everlasting life.

He that mixes batter and pours the batter onto a hot griddle shall have pancakes.

Mixing and pouring are not commands but they are necessary conditions that must be met in order to have pancakes for with no mixing and no pouring there would be no pancakes as with no hearing and no believing there would be no everlasting life. Are you going to ridiculously imply one can still have pancakes without batter being mixed and poured onto a hot griddle?

Jn 3;3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Since born again is not an imperative command here means one can be see the kingdom of God anyway apart from being born again? one can be saved anyway without being born again? No, being born again is being made a necessary condition that must be met in order to see the kingdom of God.

You're throwing plain common sense and basic logic out of the window.

 

[Christian Soldier]

You are ridiculously implying that one can refuse to hear Christ, refuse to believe Christ yet receive everlasting life anyway. Because hearing and believing are not imperative commands in this verse does not in anyway mean they are unnecessary in obtaining everlasting life.

Making both hearing and believing conditions to obtaining everlasting life therefore makes them both necessary to having everlasting life.

He that mixes batter and pours the batter onto a hot griddle shall have pancakes.

Mixing and pouring are not commands but they are necessary conditions that must be met in order to have pancakes for with no mixing and no pouring there would be no pancakes as with no hearing and no believing there would be no everlasting life. Are you going to ridiculously imply one can still have pancakes without batter being mixed and poured onto a hot griddle?

Jn 3;3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Since born again is not an imperative command here means one can be see the kingdom of God anyway apart from being born again? one can be saved anyway without being born again? No, being born again is being made a necessary condition that must be met in order to see the kingdom of God.

You're throwing plain common sense and basic logic out of the window.

Dear Sir, why are you denying the fact that you were born dead in your trespasses and sin. All of the conditions and requirements you have added require Gods grace and the gift of faith, before you can obey them.

You say that you don't need God, because you can change your sin nature and somehow manufacture a righteous good nature within yourself. I hate to break it to you, but you're fooling yourself, it's no use trying to convince me that a leopard can change his spots. You say he can but God said he can't so, with all due respect I must reject your private opinion.

A dead man doesn't hear God, so he can't obey someone he can't hear.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;​

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

You failed to consider that Nicodemus told Jesus that what Jesus said about being born again is ridiculous. Nicodemus said it's impossible to be born again, and Jesus capitulated and said "your right Nicodemus, this is impossible with men".

So there you have it, you have added conditions which Jesus Himself admitted are impossible for us to meet. So you're going against God Himself, with your ridiculous requirements for salvation.

But thank God Jesus said, these things are impossible for men, but nothing is impossible with God. So salvation is not in your hands, because you are dead and your best works and efforts and filthy stinking rags. Do you really think you will be saved by trying to wipe your sin away with filthy stinking rags???????

 

[GracePeace]

You're throwing plain common sense and basic logic out of the wwindow.

I blocked that user bc I found they weren't interested in following reason--there's no amount of reason you could use with them to persuade them of the truth, bc they're wedded to their own thoughts.