Free will vs predestination and our struggles

[Ernie]

Personally I believe I have seen examples of both throughout the Bible, but this isn't necessarily an argument or debate about which one is the correct doctrine.

I would like to know if you believe in complete pre destination/Calvinists doctrine, how do our deep fight and struggle of the mind/ decisions that seemingly happen every day happen? Isn't that our minds fighting ?(specifically speaking of myself)

We are told we are flesh and bone and fallen creatures, is it not ourselves putting up that fight daily? Am I under the wrong assumption that Calvinists believe that we ourselves have no input in being Holy or our fight towards Holiness?

 

[soberxp]

Personally I believe I have seen examples of both throughout the Bible, but this isn't necessarily an argument or debate about which one is the correct doctrine.

I would like to know if you believe in complete pre destination/Calvinists doctrine, how do our deep fight and struggle of the mind/ decisions that seemingly happen every day happen? Isn't that our minds fighting ?(specifically speaking of myself)

We are told we are flesh and bone and fallen creatures, is it not ourselves putting up that fight daily? Am I under the wrong assumption that Calvinists believe that we ourselves have no input in being Holy or our fight towards Holiness?

After coming into contact with many atheists, I discovered a problem: God’s words are something they cannot understand—at least under the premise of their free will. No matter how simply and clearly I explain God’s existence, God’s works, and God’s truth, most people reply to me first with, “I think you are very arrogant.” I answer, “That is not me being arrogant; rather, God’s thoughts are not on the same level as ours.” The contradiction is that they understood, yet they did not understand—because when the underlying program is called, their encapsulated package does not contain the book called the Bible. So I gave up the idea of so-called preaching the gospel to everyone. If a person does not read the Bible, what is the use?

It is like an author writing a novel with very profound meaning, but most readers cannot understand it. Many people only know the title of the novel, a small number of people understand the novel’s profound meaning, and some people do not know the novel at all.

So is this so-called predestination? Or is it a manifestation of free will?

 

[newnature]

Personally I believe I have seen examples of both throughout the Bible, but this isn't necessarily an argument or debate about which one is the correct doctrine.

I would like to know if you believe in complete pre destination/Calvinists doctrine, how do our deep fight and struggle of the mind/ decisions that seemingly happen every day happen? Isn't that our minds fighting ?(specifically speaking of myself)

We are told we are flesh and bone and fallen creatures, is it not ourselves putting up that fight daily? Am I under the wrong assumption that Calvinists believe that we ourselves have no input in being Holy or our fight towards Holiness?

Therefore, glorify God in your body, in Romans 12:1, bodies means the embodied life, the actual life, not the religious version of a person that exists in songs and prayers, but the person who wakes up tired, answers messages, eats, spends, reacts, works, desires, apologizes, forgives and obeys. A man prays for patience in the morning, then uses his mouth like a weapon by noon. A woman asks God for peace, then spends the night feeding the fear that is devouring her. A young believer asks for discernment, but keeps negotiating with the compromise God has already exposed. Paul’s first answer is not try a better thought, present your bodies. The crisis is divided surrender, a person wants God to calm the mind while the rest of life remains untouched, but Paul puts the whole self on the altar. Your eyes, because attention shapes affection. Your mouth, because words reveal what has filled the heart. Your hands, because love eventually has to become action. Your schedule, because time is one of the most honest forms of worship.

 

[soberxp]

We are told we are flesh and bone and fallen creatures, is it not ourselves putting up that fight daily? Am I under the wrong assumption that Calvinists believe that we ourselves have no input in being Holy or our fight towards Holiness?

1Cor 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

 

[newnature]

1Cor 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

Healthy examination walks the narrow road between promise believed, presence discerned, path confirmed, consider how those three hold together and consider what life looks like when that presence is real. When the New Testament wants to show whether living faith is present, it does not point to one dramatic moment, it points to a direction you can see in ordinary days. 1 John 2:3, John says, knowing him is shown in keeping his commandments, 1 John 3:14, passing from death to life is shown in loving the brothers, 1 John 4:7-8, loving as God loves flows from knowing God who is love. Three threads appear again and again, believing in Christ, obeying Christ, loving as Christ loves, not as three separate achievements, as one living movement toward him.

 

[BillTaylor]

After 36 3/4 years of study and teaching I have decided that both free will are in play with conditions we fail to consider. Elohime/God did not exist within this Time/Space Continuum before He created this for our use.

That's a mouth full of an opening. Let's look at some of that. Elohime can be seen working around us if we are Spiritually Open to that unseen dimension. We that have the Spirit living in our hearts can, however, suffer from not seeking answers.

I seek the influence of Ruah (Holy Spirit) in my life from thought to thought and is thoughtfully and prayerfully considered. The Creation we live in was created in a fashion similar to our own manors. Elohime was creating this to step into. He is not contained here as we are.

I have no idea what the Spirit Realm is like beyond what The Almighty has seen recorded in His Word but because He is true I know the two realms will coexist, one day.

Shalom

 

[pwg_jonathan]

Ernie, I'm with you on the daily fight. Whatever side of the debate someone lands on, the struggle in the mind feels very real, and I don't think that's something to be ashamed of. What helps me is that Paul holds both in one breath: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13). So the effort is ours, but we're not doing it alone. May God give you peace in the fight and the grace to keep taking the next small step toward him.