Most Christians are familiar with the historical account of Joseph... being sold into slavery, ultimately for his betterment and that of his family.In any case, it's often that a non-Christian, or a non-believer in God questions God's goodness, merely because of circumstance. I love this story that I once heard, and I am going to RETYPE IT as best I can recall it.-----------------------------A man who found a horse was approached by his neighbor as is their custom, and the neighbor asked, “So, what’s new?”“Well,” said the man who found a horse, "I found a horse! This horse just came up at our farm. He has no markings, rides great, and nobody has even tried to claim him!" "Oh, that’s GOOD!," said the Neighbor. "How do you know?..." asked the man who found a horse...Next day…The next day the neighbor approached the man who found a horse, as was their custom, and asked, “So, what’s new?”“Well,” said the man who found a horse, “you remember that horse we found? Well, it kicked my son off and my son broke both of his legs.”"Oh, that’s BAD!," said the Neighbor. "How do you know?..." asked the man who found a horse...Next day…The next day the neighbor approached the man who found a horse, as was their custom, and asked, “So, what’s new?”“Well,” said the man who found a horse, “you may remember that horse I found that kicked my son off and broke my son’s legs? Well, I’ll tell you what… as you may recall, we are at war up north, and when the king came to recruit men, my boy was only allowed to stay at home because of his broken legs. He doesn’t have to go to war!”"Oh, that’s GOOD!," said the Neighbor. "How do you know?..." asked the man who found a horse...Next day…The next day the neighbor approached the man who found a horse, as was their custom, and asked, “So, what’s new?”“Well,” said the man who found a horse, “You remember my son, how after he broke his legs could not go to war? Well, we won the war easily. The enemy gave up without a fight, and now all my neighbors who had sons that faught are rich with the plunder and wages from war, and none of them even had a scratch on them. But, we get nothing because my son could not go to war”"Oh, that’s BAD!," said the Neighbor. "How do you know?..." asked the man who found a horse...Next day…The next day the neighbor approached the man who found a horse, as was their custom, and asked, “So, what’s new?”“Well,” said the man who found a horse, “You remember my son who broke his legs, couldn’t go to war, and then did not receive income or plunder from the war? Well, I’ll tell you what happened. Some raiders who heard of the recent wealth in town came in stole all the warriors money! Not only that… many of them were beaten very very badly. But, we were unharmed because my son had broken legs and therefore didn’t’ to war, and we had no wealth to take! We were unharmed because of this.”"Oh, that’s GOOD!," said the Neighbor. "How do you know?..." asked the man who found a horse...Next day…The next day the neighbor approached the man who found a horse, as was their custom, and asked, “So, what’s new?”“Well,” said the man who found a horse, “You remember my son… he broke his legs on that horse, and he couldn’t’ go to war, so he didn’t get any money, but then we were not harmed by the raiders? Well, the beatings the raiders gave, so I heard, were not as bad as I thought. Just a few bruises here and there, no real major injuries, and the raiders were caught! Now the king has taken SEVEN TIMES the wealth that was stolen and given it back to the soldier and their families! We, still have nothing new accept this horse we found.”"Oh, that’s BAD!," said the Neighbor. "How do you know?..." asked the man who found a horse...Next day…The next day the neighbor approached the man who found a horse, as was their custom, and asked, “So, what’s new?”“Well,” said the man who found a horse, “You remember all that has been going on… and how the raiders came in, stole the wealth from war, and then the king returned it seven fold? Well, the money that was taken from the Raiders apparently contained some sort of curse! Every single one of the families who has touched the money is now dreadfully ill, and some have died! But, we remain the same as the day we found the horse. Other than my son’s broken legs, nobody is sick here.”"Oh, that’s GOOD!," said the Neighbor. "How do you know?..." asked the man who found a horse...….And it goes on… and on…The point is that circumstance WILL NEVER tell you when things are “good” or when things are “bad.” God has determined our outcome, and someday we will be amazed to see how he took care of us every day, from the very beginning—regardless of what seemed to be.Do not worry about what you will eat, or drink, or wear. Jesus said that even the heathens seek after these things, but your HEAVENLY FATHER KNOWS what you have need of before you ask.
God is good, 100% of the time, every single day.
- Thread starter treeoflife
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I've heard this story before, and appreciate hearing it again! It's so true, and such a valuable lesson!
This reminds me of a song by Confederate Railroad called:"Daddy Never was the Cadillac Kind". The punch line is that the man was poor, but he always had enough for his family. He didn't have all these demands of God.I like the song because it shows that money doesn't matter --- your relationship with God is the only thing that matters.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoQUJlsNu_4
(RaddSpencer;50038)
[...] Your relationship with God is the only thing that matters.
Absolutely. I keep hearing people sick and tired of their place on earth, complaining about how hard they have it. Please, hard? We're living in America, the land of the FREE. Obviously this is the land of God, which lets us practice the free will He has given to us in full. But we have gays and liberals and flag-burning hippies questioning what they're given. God has a plan for everyone. Children who die young, or who are sick? There's a reason, just have faith. Who knows, maybe their death curtails some great tragedy that would have been brought upon us. This is why it gets me all riled up when people have so much "faith" in "science". If someone isn't meant to get sick, then God will cure them.
[...] Your relationship with God is the only thing that matters.
Absolutely. I keep hearing people sick and tired of their place on earth, complaining about how hard they have it. Please, hard? We're living in America, the land of the FREE. Obviously this is the land of God, which lets us practice the free will He has given to us in full. But we have gays and liberals and flag-burning hippies questioning what they're given. God has a plan for everyone. Children who die young, or who are sick? There's a reason, just have faith. Who knows, maybe their death curtails some great tragedy that would have been brought upon us. This is why it gets me all riled up when people have so much "faith" in "science". If someone isn't meant to get sick, then God will cure them.
(Lot'sLot)
Children who die young, or who are sick? There's a reason, just have faith. Who knows, maybe their death curtails some great tragedy that would have been brought upon us.
Yes, I'm sure every infant who dies in childbirth or starves to death was a fascist dictator just waiting to happen.(Lot'sLot)
This is why it gets me all riled up when people have so much "faith" in "science". If someone isn't meant to get sick, then God will cure them.
Are you seriously suggesting that we should stop researching medicine because God wants sick people to die anyways?Something smells like a troll.
Children who die young, or who are sick? There's a reason, just have faith. Who knows, maybe their death curtails some great tragedy that would have been brought upon us.
Yes, I'm sure every infant who dies in childbirth or starves to death was a fascist dictator just waiting to happen.(Lot'sLot)
This is why it gets me all riled up when people have so much "faith" in "science". If someone isn't meant to get sick, then God will cure them.
Are you seriously suggesting that we should stop researching medicine because God wants sick people to die anyways?Something smells like a troll.
(Lunar;51726)
Yes, I'm sure every infant who dies in childbirth or starves to death was a fascist dictator just waiting to happen.Are you seriously suggesting that we should stop researching medicine because God wants sick people to die anyways?Something smells like a troll.
I have a friend. He is a Christian. Their first child was unborn... died before his wife could give birth. There are thousands of Christians like him. There are also thousands of non-Christians like Him. The Bible tells us of many faithful who struggled through pain--namely Jesus Himself. Though unjust, though it doesn't seem fair... it is part of life, and God who offers ETERNAL LIFE is good all the time.It is not circumstance that determines God's goodness. God is good all the time, period. Whether we, in our wickedness, choose to see His goodness or believe Him is another thing. But He remains good regardless. He will bring us to an expected end. Eternal life is much more valuable than any struggle or injustice we may experience in this life, which is physical and perishing. Jesus gives us real life.
Yes, I'm sure every infant who dies in childbirth or starves to death was a fascist dictator just waiting to happen.Are you seriously suggesting that we should stop researching medicine because God wants sick people to die anyways?Something smells like a troll.
I have a friend. He is a Christian. Their first child was unborn... died before his wife could give birth. There are thousands of Christians like him. There are also thousands of non-Christians like Him. The Bible tells us of many faithful who struggled through pain--namely Jesus Himself. Though unjust, though it doesn't seem fair... it is part of life, and God who offers ETERNAL LIFE is good all the time.It is not circumstance that determines God's goodness. God is good all the time, period. Whether we, in our wickedness, choose to see His goodness or believe Him is another thing. But He remains good regardless. He will bring us to an expected end. Eternal life is much more valuable than any struggle or injustice we may experience in this life, which is physical and perishing. Jesus gives us real life.
(treeoflife;52429)
Though unjust, though it doesn't seem fair... it is part of life, and God who offers ETERNAL LIFE is good all the time.
That's simply reassertion, not argument. God is good all the time...except when he allows evil to happen! Regardless of the payoff at the end, allowing evil is not as good as forbidding evil.
Though unjust, though it doesn't seem fair... it is part of life, and God who offers ETERNAL LIFE is good all the time.
That's simply reassertion, not argument. God is good all the time...except when he allows evil to happen! Regardless of the payoff at the end, allowing evil is not as good as forbidding evil.
(Lunar;52494)
That's simply reassertion, not argument. God is good all the time...except when he allows evil to happen! Regardless of the payoff at the end, allowing evil is not as good as forbidding evil.
So you know what good is more than the maker of good, and the one who makes the difference between good and evil?Just know that there are many who have struggled through much worse things than many can imagine, yet they die believing that God is good. Yet others, change their mind at the drop of the at, or every strong wind that knocks them overWho is right? Is it possible the person who thinks God is not good, because of pain or circumstance, is actually evil for thinking that, and that God's goodness is bigger than our immediate gratification in this lifetime?
That's simply reassertion, not argument. God is good all the time...except when he allows evil to happen! Regardless of the payoff at the end, allowing evil is not as good as forbidding evil.
So you know what good is more than the maker of good, and the one who makes the difference between good and evil?Just know that there are many who have struggled through much worse things than many can imagine, yet they die believing that God is good. Yet others, change their mind at the drop of the at, or every strong wind that knocks them overWho is right? Is it possible the person who thinks God is not good, because of pain or circumstance, is actually evil for thinking that, and that God's goodness is bigger than our immediate gratification in this lifetime?
(treeoflife;52769)
So you know what good is more than the maker of good, and the one who makes the difference between good and evil?Just know that there are many who have struggled through much worse things than many can imagine, yet they die believing that God is good. Yet others, change their mind at the drop of the at, or every strong wind that knocks them overWho is right? Is it possible the person who thinks God is not good, because of pain or circumstance, is actually evil for thinking that, and that God's goodness is bigger than our immediate gratification in this lifetime?
You've completely ignored the point.Good life + good afterlife > Bad life + good afterlife.Since evil is the absence of good, and there is more good in the first scenario than the second scenario, and since the second scenario is the one that God has caused to happen, then God has necessarily allowed evil to exist.Actually, it's even worse than that, since for the vast majority of the world the scenario is bad life + bad afterlife. That's a LOT of evil, but God allows that to happen, too.
So you know what good is more than the maker of good, and the one who makes the difference between good and evil?Just know that there are many who have struggled through much worse things than many can imagine, yet they die believing that God is good. Yet others, change their mind at the drop of the at, or every strong wind that knocks them overWho is right? Is it possible the person who thinks God is not good, because of pain or circumstance, is actually evil for thinking that, and that God's goodness is bigger than our immediate gratification in this lifetime?
You've completely ignored the point.Good life + good afterlife > Bad life + good afterlife.Since evil is the absence of good, and there is more good in the first scenario than the second scenario, and since the second scenario is the one that God has caused to happen, then God has necessarily allowed evil to exist.Actually, it's even worse than that, since for the vast majority of the world the scenario is bad life + bad afterlife. That's a LOT of evil, but God allows that to happen, too.
(Lunar;52777)
You've completely ignored the point.Good life + good afterlife > Bad life + good afterlife.Since evil is the absence of good, and there is more good in the first scenario than the second scenario, and since the second scenario is the one that God has caused to happen, then God has necessarily allowed evil to exist.Actually, it's even worse than that, since for the vast majority of the world the scenario is bad life + bad afterlife. That's a LOT of evil, but God allows that to happen, too.
Well, we know that God allows evil to exist obviously. You said God necessarily allows evil to exist. Did you mean unnecessarily? You could have said either one and I sincerely don't know which one you intended, but thought you might have meant *unnecessary*, since it would be silly to make an arguement against something that you thought was necessary.Anyhow, I think the problem many people have is that they try to judge a parade from a lawnchair (so to speak). Somewhere in the middle of the parade, a float chatches fire and they have to put it out with fire extinguishers. The float is decomissioned and rolled asside for the duration of the parade. You say, "What a terrible parade that was."God is watching it from a helicopter. If we want a full view of what is actually happening, we need God's perspective. We need to be able to see the parade from beginning to end.But, it doesn't stop there. Not only is God in a helicopter with a better view (where we need to be), but God also had the ability to stop the float from catching fire if He wanted. But, He didn't stop it from catching fire. He could have even caused it. We simply believe that in God's sovereignty, knowing ALL things and haveing ALL power, God allowed this "evil" to happen because it would utlimately mean more GOOD in the end. That is the point. We believe and trust in God's goodness, regardless of what appears to be, He is good all the time. Somehow, regardless of what appears to be, something much much better is happening, and it is only a matter of time and patience before God reveals the truth of the matter, and shows us how good He really is. You also have to understand, there is no arguement you can make against this faith, because no matter the "evil", we always choose to trust that God is good, and there is a reason for everything. I say this with all sincerity. I could lose all my children, my wife, and all that I have, be left with nothing, left to die, tortured to death... and going into eternity, God would show Himself to be good.It's not just a happy feeling... we know this to be true. There is a reason for everything, and God will show Himself perfectly good in the end.You say that a lot more will be having a bad afterlife. I don't personally believe that. I believe that God's gift of salvation through Christ has paid for all sin, every sin, of all kinds. There is only one sin a person can commit that would be held against them (and thereby hold all of their other sins against them)... that is the sin of rejecting Christ for their atonement. I believe there are going to te *a lot* more people in heaven then I have found many people, Christians included, generally think.
You've completely ignored the point.Good life + good afterlife > Bad life + good afterlife.Since evil is the absence of good, and there is more good in the first scenario than the second scenario, and since the second scenario is the one that God has caused to happen, then God has necessarily allowed evil to exist.Actually, it's even worse than that, since for the vast majority of the world the scenario is bad life + bad afterlife. That's a LOT of evil, but God allows that to happen, too.
Well, we know that God allows evil to exist obviously. You said God necessarily allows evil to exist. Did you mean unnecessarily? You could have said either one and I sincerely don't know which one you intended, but thought you might have meant *unnecessary*, since it would be silly to make an arguement against something that you thought was necessary.Anyhow, I think the problem many people have is that they try to judge a parade from a lawnchair (so to speak). Somewhere in the middle of the parade, a float chatches fire and they have to put it out with fire extinguishers. The float is decomissioned and rolled asside for the duration of the parade. You say, "What a terrible parade that was."God is watching it from a helicopter. If we want a full view of what is actually happening, we need God's perspective. We need to be able to see the parade from beginning to end.But, it doesn't stop there. Not only is God in a helicopter with a better view (where we need to be), but God also had the ability to stop the float from catching fire if He wanted. But, He didn't stop it from catching fire. He could have even caused it. We simply believe that in God's sovereignty, knowing ALL things and haveing ALL power, God allowed this "evil" to happen because it would utlimately mean more GOOD in the end. That is the point. We believe and trust in God's goodness, regardless of what appears to be, He is good all the time. Somehow, regardless of what appears to be, something much much better is happening, and it is only a matter of time and patience before God reveals the truth of the matter, and shows us how good He really is. You also have to understand, there is no arguement you can make against this faith, because no matter the "evil", we always choose to trust that God is good, and there is a reason for everything. I say this with all sincerity. I could lose all my children, my wife, and all that I have, be left with nothing, left to die, tortured to death... and going into eternity, God would show Himself to be good.It's not just a happy feeling... we know this to be true. There is a reason for everything, and God will show Himself perfectly good in the end.You say that a lot more will be having a bad afterlife. I don't personally believe that. I believe that God's gift of salvation through Christ has paid for all sin, every sin, of all kinds. There is only one sin a person can commit that would be held against them (and thereby hold all of their other sins against them)... that is the sin of rejecting Christ for their atonement. I believe there are going to te *a lot* more people in heaven then I have found many people, Christians included, generally think.
(treeoflife;52796)
Well, we know that God allows evil to exist obviously. You said God necessarily allows evil to exist. Did you mean unnecessarily? You could have said either one and I sincerely don't know which one you intended, but thought you might have meant *unnecessary*, since it would be silly to make an arguement against something that you thought was necessary.
I meant "necessarily" in the sense that "it necessarily follows from this proof that God has allowed evil to happen."(treeoflife)
He could have even caused it. We simply believe that in God's sovereignty, knowing ALL things and haveing ALL power, God allowed this "evil" to happen because it would utlimately mean more GOOD in the end. That is the point.
If God is omnipotent, he could have caused the most good to happen without any evil occurring. Why should he need to engage in the human act of committing an evil for the greater good? God can cause good without any evil, so why doesn't he?Or to put it in other words, you claim that when we see "1x Evil" it is because God knows that it will eventually lead to "2x Good" - hence causing more good than evil in the end. But there is no reason why God could not have used "1x Good" instead of "1x Evil" to lead to "2x Good," because God is all-powerful. To say that he needed to commit an evil to achieve the greater good is to ascribe human limitations to him, and God is not human. So, he has deliberately chosen a path of more evil than he could have.(treeolife)
there is no arguement you can make against this faith, because no matter the "evil", we always choose to trust that God is good, and there is a reason for everything. I say this with all sincerity.
I'm not here to try to convince you of anything. I've no doubts about your own convictions. It's just curious that you admit that you'd stick to them no matter the evidence to the contrary.(treeoflife)
You say that a lot more will be having a bad afterlife. I don't personally believe that.
Well, since only ~2 billion people identify as Christians and the earth has 6.7 billion people, and since not everyone who merely claims to be a Christian will be saved, it certainly seems as though the majority of the world will have a bad afterlife. So unless you think Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus are somehow accepting Christ, I think you're quite stuck with this conclusion.
Well, we know that God allows evil to exist obviously. You said God necessarily allows evil to exist. Did you mean unnecessarily? You could have said either one and I sincerely don't know which one you intended, but thought you might have meant *unnecessary*, since it would be silly to make an arguement against something that you thought was necessary.
I meant "necessarily" in the sense that "it necessarily follows from this proof that God has allowed evil to happen."(treeoflife)
He could have even caused it. We simply believe that in God's sovereignty, knowing ALL things and haveing ALL power, God allowed this "evil" to happen because it would utlimately mean more GOOD in the end. That is the point.
If God is omnipotent, he could have caused the most good to happen without any evil occurring. Why should he need to engage in the human act of committing an evil for the greater good? God can cause good without any evil, so why doesn't he?Or to put it in other words, you claim that when we see "1x Evil" it is because God knows that it will eventually lead to "2x Good" - hence causing more good than evil in the end. But there is no reason why God could not have used "1x Good" instead of "1x Evil" to lead to "2x Good," because God is all-powerful. To say that he needed to commit an evil to achieve the greater good is to ascribe human limitations to him, and God is not human. So, he has deliberately chosen a path of more evil than he could have.(treeolife)
there is no arguement you can make against this faith, because no matter the "evil", we always choose to trust that God is good, and there is a reason for everything. I say this with all sincerity.
I'm not here to try to convince you of anything. I've no doubts about your own convictions. It's just curious that you admit that you'd stick to them no matter the evidence to the contrary.(treeoflife)
You say that a lot more will be having a bad afterlife. I don't personally believe that.
Well, since only ~2 billion people identify as Christians and the earth has 6.7 billion people, and since not everyone who merely claims to be a Christian will be saved, it certainly seems as though the majority of the world will have a bad afterlife. So unless you think Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus are somehow accepting Christ, I think you're quite stuck with this conclusion.
(Lunar;52836)
~2 billion people identify as Christians and the earth has 6.7 billion people, and since not everyone who merely claims to be a Christian will be saved, it certainly seems as though the majority of the world will have a bad afterlife. So unless you think Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus are somehow accepting Christ, I think you're quite stuck with this conclusion.
I believe it is sin that will keep men and women out of eternity in heaven. I also beleive that Jesus died for all of those sins. Name a sin, and Jesus died for it, no longer making sin an issue.I also believe there is but one sin a person can commit that would keep them out of heaven... that is blapheme of the Holy Spirit--rejecting Christ for the atonement of your sins.All I know is that God has died for sin, and that there is only one sin that will keep us from being a recipient of that grace. That sin is choosing to reject that grace, once offered by God's Spirit. I have done the math.
~2 billion people identify as Christians and the earth has 6.7 billion people, and since not everyone who merely claims to be a Christian will be saved, it certainly seems as though the majority of the world will have a bad afterlife. So unless you think Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus are somehow accepting Christ, I think you're quite stuck with this conclusion.
I believe it is sin that will keep men and women out of eternity in heaven. I also beleive that Jesus died for all of those sins. Name a sin, and Jesus died for it, no longer making sin an issue.I also believe there is but one sin a person can commit that would keep them out of heaven... that is blapheme of the Holy Spirit--rejecting Christ for the atonement of your sins.All I know is that God has died for sin, and that there is only one sin that will keep us from being a recipient of that grace. That sin is choosing to reject that grace, once offered by God's Spirit. I have done the math.
(treeoflife;52853)
I also believe there is but one sin a person can commit that would keep them out of heaven... that is blapheme of the Holy Spirit--rejecting Christ for the atonement of your sins.
Like I said - sheerly by virtue of the fact that they aren't Christians, at least 4.7 billion people today have committed the precise sin you just mentioned, which will keep them out of heaven.
I also believe there is but one sin a person can commit that would keep them out of heaven... that is blapheme of the Holy Spirit--rejecting Christ for the atonement of your sins.
Like I said - sheerly by virtue of the fact that they aren't Christians, at least 4.7 billion people today have committed the precise sin you just mentioned, which will keep them out of heaven.
(Lunar;52862)
Like I said - sheerly by virtue of the fact that they aren't Christians, at least 4.7 billion people today have committed the precise sin you just mentioned, which will keep them out of heaven.
Have they? I won't make any doctinal statement on the matter... but if a person hasn't heard or properly been given the gospel... how can they reject it? How can they commit that sin without an oppertunity? No sin... no condemnation. No condemnation... no hell. Jesus has once suffered for all sin, and this is the only thing to keep anyone out of heaven.
Like I said - sheerly by virtue of the fact that they aren't Christians, at least 4.7 billion people today have committed the precise sin you just mentioned, which will keep them out of heaven.
Have they? I won't make any doctinal statement on the matter... but if a person hasn't heard or properly been given the gospel... how can they reject it? How can they commit that sin without an oppertunity? No sin... no condemnation. No condemnation... no hell. Jesus has once suffered for all sin, and this is the only thing to keep anyone out of heaven.
(treeoflife;52867)
Have they? I won't make any doctinal statement on the matter... but if a person hasn't heard or properly been given the gospel... how can they reject it? How can they commit that sin without an oppertunity? No sin... no condemnation. No condemnation... no hell. Jesus has once suffered for all sin, and this is the only thing to keep anyone out of heaven.
Wait, so it's better that they don't hear the gospel, so they're guaranteed a spot in heaven?
Have they? I won't make any doctinal statement on the matter... but if a person hasn't heard or properly been given the gospel... how can they reject it? How can they commit that sin without an oppertunity? No sin... no condemnation. No condemnation... no hell. Jesus has once suffered for all sin, and this is the only thing to keep anyone out of heaven.
Wait, so it's better that they don't hear the gospel, so they're guaranteed a spot in heaven?
(Lunar;52876)
(treeoflife;52867)
Have they? I won't make any doctinal statement on the matter... but if a person hasn't heard or properly been given the gospel... how can they reject it? How can they commit that sin without an oppertunity? No sin... no condemnation. No condemnation... no hell. Jesus has once suffered for all sin, and this is the only thing to keep anyone out of heaven.
Wait, so it's better that they don't hear the gospel, so they're guaranteed a spot in heaven?Not exactly true either. It sounds like a hpocritical statement to me.
(treeoflife;52867)
Have they? I won't make any doctinal statement on the matter... but if a person hasn't heard or properly been given the gospel... how can they reject it? How can they commit that sin without an oppertunity? No sin... no condemnation. No condemnation... no hell. Jesus has once suffered for all sin, and this is the only thing to keep anyone out of heaven.
Wait, so it's better that they don't hear the gospel, so they're guaranteed a spot in heaven?Not exactly true either. It sounds like a hpocritical statement to me.
(thesuperjag;52881)
Not exactly true either. It sounds like a hpocritical statement to me.
Well, that is what I am getting from treeoflife's post. The only way for someone to go to hell, according to him, is to first hear the gospel properly, and then reject it. If they do not hear the gospel properly, and hence never reject it, they will go to heaven.If this is true, then, in order to maximize the number of people going to heaven, we should never preach the gospel to anyone, because that would put them in the only conceivable situation that would send them to hell. If the gospel isn't preached to anyone, they can't reject it, and thus they will all go to heaven.That all sounds a little crazy to me.
Not exactly true either. It sounds like a hpocritical statement to me.
Well, that is what I am getting from treeoflife's post. The only way for someone to go to hell, according to him, is to first hear the gospel properly, and then reject it. If they do not hear the gospel properly, and hence never reject it, they will go to heaven.If this is true, then, in order to maximize the number of people going to heaven, we should never preach the gospel to anyone, because that would put them in the only conceivable situation that would send them to hell. If the gospel isn't preached to anyone, they can't reject it, and thus they will all go to heaven.That all sounds a little crazy to me.
(Lunar;52882)
Well, that is what I am getting from treeoflife's post. The only way for someone to go to hell, according to him, is to first hear the gospel properly, and then reject it. If they do not hear the gospel properly, and hence never reject it, they will go to heaven.If this is true, then, in order to maximize the number of people going to heaven, we should never preach the gospel to anyone, because that would put them in the only conceivable situation that would send them to hell. If the gospel isn't preached to anyone, they can't reject it, and thus they will all go to heaven.That all sounds a little crazy to me.
To me, it is a mystery. All I know is that we ARE SAVED if we have believed in our heart that Jesus is Lord, receiving His payment for our sins that was done as a perfect sacrifice for us. Jesus paid for ALL SINS accept the unforgivable sin He spoke of -- the blapheme of the Holy Spirit who brings us to Christ. If you reject His gift, and refuse to trust Him for it, then you cannot go to heaven. If you receive Him, not only are you guaranteed eternity in Heaven with Him, but you can live NOW on earth, a fuller and better SPIRITUAL life, and begin putting your treasure in heaven. We can learn to walk by faith, right now, on earth, before we are in heaven.As far as rejecting goes... we know you have at this point only rejected Christ. Whether you like the fact that you have been given the Gospel of not is something you can think about later, but I guarantee you will happy that you believed on Him if you should do so. Otherwise, I say that without a doubt, should you die before receiving Him, you will absolutely not be in heaven. He paved the way, and even gave you a car to travel on it and a person to drive you there. You just have to get it and trust Him to get you where you need to go. If you don't, you will be left behind.
Well, that is what I am getting from treeoflife's post. The only way for someone to go to hell, according to him, is to first hear the gospel properly, and then reject it. If they do not hear the gospel properly, and hence never reject it, they will go to heaven.If this is true, then, in order to maximize the number of people going to heaven, we should never preach the gospel to anyone, because that would put them in the only conceivable situation that would send them to hell. If the gospel isn't preached to anyone, they can't reject it, and thus they will all go to heaven.That all sounds a little crazy to me.
To me, it is a mystery. All I know is that we ARE SAVED if we have believed in our heart that Jesus is Lord, receiving His payment for our sins that was done as a perfect sacrifice for us. Jesus paid for ALL SINS accept the unforgivable sin He spoke of -- the blapheme of the Holy Spirit who brings us to Christ. If you reject His gift, and refuse to trust Him for it, then you cannot go to heaven. If you receive Him, not only are you guaranteed eternity in Heaven with Him, but you can live NOW on earth, a fuller and better SPIRITUAL life, and begin putting your treasure in heaven. We can learn to walk by faith, right now, on earth, before we are in heaven.As far as rejecting goes... we know you have at this point only rejected Christ. Whether you like the fact that you have been given the Gospel of not is something you can think about later, but I guarantee you will happy that you believed on Him if you should do so. Otherwise, I say that without a doubt, should you die before receiving Him, you will absolutely not be in heaven. He paved the way, and even gave you a car to travel on it and a person to drive you there. You just have to get it and trust Him to get you where you need to go. If you don't, you will be left behind.
(treeoflife;52889)
I say that without a doubt, should you die before receiving Him, you will absolutely not be in heaven. He paved the way, and even gave you a car to travel on it and a person to drive you there. You just have to get it and trust Him to get you where you need to go. If you don't, you will be left behind.
Not trying to bash christianity here but you only see the step towards accepting God as rational because you have done it yourself.For us atheists it's hard since you say we should have faith, why faith in your god? Why should we trust goatfarmers from two thousand years ago and not the roman ecclisarchy or the Hindu?They all require a leap of faith, the question is which leap to take, if I anger your God I go to hell but if I anger the God or Gods of any other religion they will let me burn in hell.How do I know which God (if any) is real and I should rightfully submit to?I'm not trying to make fun of your beliefs I am just lost in a pantheon of several Gods and religions and they all seem to want to see me burn in a lake of fire if I do not submit to them.
I say that without a doubt, should you die before receiving Him, you will absolutely not be in heaven. He paved the way, and even gave you a car to travel on it and a person to drive you there. You just have to get it and trust Him to get you where you need to go. If you don't, you will be left behind.
Not trying to bash christianity here but you only see the step towards accepting God as rational because you have done it yourself.For us atheists it's hard since you say we should have faith, why faith in your god? Why should we trust goatfarmers from two thousand years ago and not the roman ecclisarchy or the Hindu?They all require a leap of faith, the question is which leap to take, if I anger your God I go to hell but if I anger the God or Gods of any other religion they will let me burn in hell.How do I know which God (if any) is real and I should rightfully submit to?I'm not trying to make fun of your beliefs I am just lost in a pantheon of several Gods and religions and they all seem to want to see me burn in a lake of fire if I do not submit to them.
(Shornaal;52891)
Not trying to bash christianity here but you only see the step towards accepting God as rational because you have done it yourself.For us atheists it's hard since you say we should have faith, why faith in your god? Why should we trust goatfarmers from two thousand years ago and not the roman ecclisarchy or the Hindu?They all require a leap of faith, the question is which leap to take, if I anger your God I go to hell but if I anger the God or Gods of any other religion they will let me burn in hell.How do I know which God (if any) is real and I should rightfully submit to?I'm not trying to make fun of your beliefs I am just lost in a pantheon of several Gods and religions and they all seem to want to see me burn in a lake of fire if I do not submit to them.
I understand your delima. It seems to be a real problem. Nevertheless, there is only one God. Seek to know Him. Love Him and obey.
Not trying to bash christianity here but you only see the step towards accepting God as rational because you have done it yourself.For us atheists it's hard since you say we should have faith, why faith in your god? Why should we trust goatfarmers from two thousand years ago and not the roman ecclisarchy or the Hindu?They all require a leap of faith, the question is which leap to take, if I anger your God I go to hell but if I anger the God or Gods of any other religion they will let me burn in hell.How do I know which God (if any) is real and I should rightfully submit to?I'm not trying to make fun of your beliefs I am just lost in a pantheon of several Gods and religions and they all seem to want to see me burn in a lake of fire if I do not submit to them.
I understand your delima. It seems to be a real problem. Nevertheless, there is only one God. Seek to know Him. Love Him and obey.
Similar threads
