God's Chosen

[Rocky Wiley]

Are we God's chosen people?

[SIZE=12pt]Adam, which is not a name, it means man. God made a covenant with a man. Jesus said he was the first and he is the last in this covenant. In order words, he fulfilled man’s covenant with God. God had said you will be my people and I will be your God. Eden was the place where man and God first meet. Afterwards, God came to Abraham, a decentent of Adam, and announced him to be the father of faith. The place that Abrahan took Issac for a sacrifice, was the place where man and God would meet. Later Salomon would build the temple on that site. When Jesus came as the second Adam (sinless man), Heaven became the place where Jesus would reside and here on earth Christians were able to meet with Jesus (God) through the Holy Ghost.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
Gal3:7[SIZE=12pt] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:8[SIZE=12pt] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [/SIZE]saying,[SIZE=12pt] In thee shall all nations be blessed. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:9[SIZE=12pt] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:10[SIZE=12pt] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [/SIZE]is[SIZE=12pt] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:11[SIZE=12pt] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [/SIZE]it is[SIZE=12pt] evident: for, The just shall live by faith. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:12[SIZE=12pt] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:13[SIZE=12pt] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [/SIZE]is[SIZE=12pt] every one that hangeth on a tree: [/SIZE]
Gal 3:14[SIZE=12pt] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:15[SIZE=12pt] Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [/SIZE]it be[SIZE=12pt] but a man's covenant, yet [/SIZE]if it be[SIZE=12pt] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:16[SIZE=12pt] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:17[SIZE=12pt] And this I say, [/SIZE]that[SIZE=12pt] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:18[SIZE=12pt] For if the inheritance [/SIZE]be[SIZE=12pt] of the law, [/SIZE]it is[SIZE=12pt] no more of promise: but God gave [/SIZE]it[SIZE=12pt] to Abraham by promise. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:19[SIZE=12pt] Wherefore then [/SIZE]serveth[SIZE=12pt] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [/SIZE]and it was[SIZE=12pt] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:20[SIZE=12pt] Now a mediator is not [/SIZE]a mediator[SIZE=12pt] of one, but God is one. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:21[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]Is[SIZE=12pt] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:22[SIZE=12pt] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:23[SIZE=12pt] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:24[SIZE=12pt] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [/SIZE]to bring us[SIZE=12pt] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:25[SIZE=12pt] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:26[SIZE=12pt] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:27[SIZE=12pt] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:28[SIZE=12pt] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:29[SIZE=12pt] And if ye [/SIZE]be[SIZE=12pt] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Jesus was the ‘seed’ of Adam and Abraham. We Christians are the children of God and have the eternal life that God had initially given to Adam. This is why Jesus said “it is finished” for the covenant has been fulfilled.[/SIZE]

 

[Selene]

Isn't the covenant fulfilled when Christ rose from the dead rather than when He died at the cross? Christ's resurrection meant victory over death.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Isn't the covenant fulfilled when Christ rose from the dead rather than when He died at the cross? Christ's resurrection meant victory over death.

It could possibly be either. But his time here on earth as a man was complete.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Are we God's chosen people?

[SIZE=12pt]Adam, which is not a name, it means man. God made a covenant with a man. Jesus said he was the first and he is the last in this covenant. In order words, he fulfilled man’s covenant with God. God had said you will be my people and I will be your God. Eden was the place where man and God first meet. Afterwards, God came to Abraham, a decentent of Adam, and announced him to be the father of faith. The place that Abrahan took Issac for a sacrifice, was the place where man and God would meet. Later Salomon would build the temple on that site. When Jesus came as the second Adam (sinless man), Heaven became the place where Jesus would reside and here on earth Christians were able to meet with Jesus (God) through the Holy Ghost.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
Gal3:7[SIZE=12pt] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:8[SIZE=12pt] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [/SIZE]saying,[SIZE=12pt] In thee shall all nations be blessed. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:9[SIZE=12pt] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:10[SIZE=12pt] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [/SIZE]is[SIZE=12pt] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:11[SIZE=12pt] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [/SIZE]it is[SIZE=12pt] evident: for, The just shall live by faith. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:12[SIZE=12pt] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:13[SIZE=12pt] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [/SIZE]is[SIZE=12pt] every one that hangeth on a tree: [/SIZE]
Gal 3:14[SIZE=12pt] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:15[SIZE=12pt] Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [/SIZE]it be[SIZE=12pt] but a man's covenant, yet [/SIZE]if it be[SIZE=12pt] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:16[SIZE=12pt] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:17[SIZE=12pt] And this I say, [/SIZE]that[SIZE=12pt] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:18[SIZE=12pt] For if the inheritance [/SIZE]be[SIZE=12pt] of the law, [/SIZE]it is[SIZE=12pt] no more of promise: but God gave [/SIZE]it[SIZE=12pt] to Abraham by promise. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:19[SIZE=12pt] Wherefore then [/SIZE]serveth[SIZE=12pt] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [/SIZE]and it was[SIZE=12pt] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:20[SIZE=12pt] Now a mediator is not [/SIZE]a mediator[SIZE=12pt] of one, but God is one. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:21[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]Is[SIZE=12pt] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:22[SIZE=12pt] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:23[SIZE=12pt] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:24[SIZE=12pt] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [/SIZE]to bring us[SIZE=12pt] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:25[SIZE=12pt] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:26[SIZE=12pt] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:27[SIZE=12pt] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:28[SIZE=12pt] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [/SIZE]
Gal 3:29[SIZE=12pt] And if ye [/SIZE]be[SIZE=12pt] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt] Jesus was the ‘seed’ of Adam and Abraham. We Christians are the children of God and have the eternal life that God had initially given to Adam. This is why Jesus said “it is finished” for the covenant has been fulfilled.[/SIZE]

If Adam had eternal life then there would be no purpose in barring the TREE of LIFE. Read closely God's response in Genesis. :)

 

[Rocky Wiley]

If Adam had eternal life then there would be no purpose in barring the TREE of LIFE. Read closely God's response in Genesis. :)

Adam wasn't barred until they had eaten of the tree of good and evil. God had told them they could eat of any except that one. We probably should assume they did not.

Thanks JB

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Adam wasn't barred until they had eaten of the tree of good and evil. God had told them they could eat of any except that one. We probably should assume they did not.

Thanks JB

Cheers RW. Here is the qualifier. :)

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.


Gen 2:15-16 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:


Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 

[Webers_Home]

[SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]JB_, on 13 Jul 2013 - 02:38 AM, said: If Adam had eternal life then there would be no[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]purpose in barring the TREE of LIFE.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]An interesting aspect of eternal life is that it's a species of life that's impervious to death. So[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]then, people who have it are impervious to the wages of sin.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]†. Rom 6:23 . . The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Lord.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The details of the story give the impression that Adam had not yet tasted the tree of life before[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]tasting the forbidden tree. So then, he was susceptible to death up to the moment that Eve handed[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]him a sample.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]According to Rev 22:2, the tree of life is an Rx meant to sustain life rather than to give life. So if[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Adam had been allowed access to the tree of life after tasting the forbidden tree; it's healing[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]properties would have made it impossible for him to die of natural causes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]All believers have eternal life. Note the grammatical tense of the "have" verb in the statements[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]below. It's present tense rather than future; indicating that believers have eternal life right now--[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]no delay and no waiting period.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]†. John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message, and trust in God who sent me, have[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]death into life.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]†. 1John 5:13 . .These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]that you may know that you have eternal life.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The possession of eternal life isn't optional; no, it's a must, because according to God's[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to eternal life relative to His son; people[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]lacking eternal life are quite christless.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]†. 1John 5:11-12 . . And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]is in His son. So whoever has God's son has this life; and whosoever does not have this life, does[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]not have His son.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Failure to accept the above statement as 100% true and reliable is tantamount to insinuating that[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]God is a person of questionable integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]†. 1John 5:10-12 . . Anyone who does not believe God insinuates that He's a liar, because he has[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]not believed the testimony God has given about His son.[/SIZE]

Buen Camino
[SIZE=medium]/[/SIZE]

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

[SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]JB_, on 13 Jul 2013 - 02:38 AM, said: If Adam had eternal life then there would be no[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]purpose in barring the TREE of LIFE.[/SIZE]



[SIZE=medium]The details of the story give the impression that Adam had not yet tasted the tree of life before[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]tasting the forbidden tree. So then, he was susceptible to death up to the moment that Eve handed [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]him a sample. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]So if... [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Adam had been allowed access to the tree of life after tasting the forbidden tree[/SIZE];[SIZE=medium] it[/SIZE]'[SIZE=medium]s healing [/SIZE]properties would have made it impossible for him to die of natural causes.


How is it you people in seeking to reach to mystical/gnostic heights fail to see the plain meaning of the text. Have you not factored in that "mortality must put on immortality"... .

Talk about coming close to the cross and bypassing it to only end up in the pit.

 

[Pilgrimer]

Isn't the covenant fulfilled when Christ rose from the dead rather than when He died at the cross? Christ's resurrection meant victory over death.

I think perhaps you need to clarify what you mean by the New Covenant being "fulfilled."

The New Covenant was "instituted" at the Cross. Just as the Old Covenant was "initiated" by the sprinkling of blood (Hebrews 9:17-18), so too the New Covenant was initiated or instituted at the Cross by the shedding of the blood of Jesus.

The New Covenant is "fulfilled" (executed, brought to pass) for the believer when they receive Christ and enter into the New Covenant that was instituted at the Cross.

The resurrection was the proof or the guarantee of the fulfillment of the promises through Jesus.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

he was susceptible to death up to the moment that Eve handed[/size]

Paul tells us definitively when death came into the world, that it was the result of Adam's sin, not something inherent in creation from the beginning. Paul then juxtaposes death being brought about by one man (the first Adam) against the fact that the resurrection from the dead has likewise been brought about by one man, the second Adam, Jesus (1 Corinthians 15:21).

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Webers_Home]

.
JB_. on 13 Jul 2013 - 8:49 PM. said: Have you not factored in that
"mortality must put on immortality"

Eternal life and immortality are two entirely different aspects of existence.
For example; Jesus had eternal life.

†. John 5:26 . . Just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the
Son also to have life in himself

But he didn't obtain immortality until his resurrection.

†. Rom 6:9 . . For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead. he
cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.

Like Jesus; believers won't obtain immortality until after their resurrection.

†. Rom 8:22-25 . .We ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan
inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons-- the redemption of our
bodies. For in this anticipation we were saved. But anticipation that is seen is
no anticipation at all. Who looks forward for what he already has? But if we
look forward for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

In other words; the term immortality refers to the characteristics of a
supernatural body-- one that's impervious to death --while the term eternal
life refers to the characteristics of a divine nature-- also impervious to death.
If you can understand what human nature is; then you can understand what
divine nature is; and let me tell you: divine nature is the cat's meow. God's
wishes are incompatible with human nature; while divine nature is right at
home with them.

Pilgrimer. on 14 Jul 2013 - 06:35 AM. said: Paul tells us definitively
when death came into the world, that it was the result of Adam's sin. not
something inherent in creation from the beginning.

That might be what Paul tells you and the "we" for whom you presume to
speak; but it's not what Paul tells me.

†. Rom 5:12 . .Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man,
and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all
sinned

There are probably just as many interpretations of that statement as are the
number of its words; but the one that satisfies me goes like this:

Adam wasn't created a superman. He came into being a warm-blooded, air
breathing creature. In other words: had you smothered Adam prior to his
tasting the forbidden tree; he would have died. Had you severed Adam's
carotid artery and let him bleed out prior to his tasting the forbidden tree;
he would have died. Had you chopped off Adam's head prior to his tasting
the forbidden tree; he would have died. Had you crushed Adam with a
massive boulder prior to his tasting the forbidden tree; he would have died.
Had you cut out Adam's heart prior to his tasting the forbidden tree; he
would have died. In other words: it wasn't inconsequential death that Adam
introduced to the world; it was consequential death; viz: "death through sin"

Bottom line is: prior to Adam's tasting the forbidden tree; death was
possible; but not mandatory; now it's mandatory.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Pilgrimer]

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.

There are probably just as many interpretations of that statement as are the number of its words; but the one that satisfies me goes like this...

...Bottom line is: prior to Adam's tasting the forbidden tree; death was possible; but not mandatory; now it's mandatory.

When your interpretation of a passage contradicts what the words actually say then I believe you have a problem.

The Romans passage says death entered the world through sin. The passage does not say that death was already in the world but Adam wasn't subject to it until he sinned. When your interpretation changes what the words actually say that's a misinterpretation, or also called error.

Besides, this "consequential" and "inconsequential" death idea is not Scriptural. The two kinds of death, and life, are spiritual death and life and physical death and life. When Adam sinned, the day he sinned, the moment he ate that fruit, he died spiritually. And every human being born from Adam has likewise been born spiritually dead. That's why we all sin, because "death passed upon all men, for that [reason] all have sinned."

And that's what is such good news about the Gospel, that through faith in Jesus, the Spirit of God reaches down into our deepest heart of hearts and raises up our dead spirit to life, and to everlasting life. The Scriptures use several different words for it; quicken, regeneration, born again, but all these terms refer to the same thing, the work of the Holy Spirit in those of us who were dead in our sins who have been raised up to life in the spirit, everlasting life, which we have now. And this everlasting spiritual life that we have been given as a gift from God is a down payment on the immortality of our bodies which we will one day inherit on the day of judgment at the 2nd Coming of Jesus.

So bottom line, that's what it's all about, and that is why it is absolutely necessary to come to God through Jesus, because it is in Jesus that we experience that spiritual resurrection without which men remain dead in their sins.

That interpretation satisfies me because that's the Gospel.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Pilgrimer, on 14 Jul 2013 - 7:56 PM, said: When your interpretation of a
passage contradicts what the words actually say

You mean: what you believe they actually say. Well; I do not agree with
what you believe them to actually say. I agree with what I believe them to
actually say.

Pilgrimer, on 14 Jul 2013 - 7:56 PM, said: Besides, this "consequential" and
"inconsequential" death idea is not Scriptural.

Maybe you don't believe this "consequential" and "inconsequential" death
idea is Scriptural; but I do.

Pilgrimer, on 14 Jul 2013 - 7:56 PM, said: The two kinds of death, and life,
are spiritual death and life and physical death and life. When Adam sinned,
the day he sinned, the moment he ate that fruit, he died spiritually.

He also died physically in a way so obvious that it's easily overlooked. Adam
lost his perpetual youth and began to age. Yes, the aging process is a
walking death. A pretty good illustration of the fatal effects of the aging
process is one I borrowed from TheTerminator starring Arnold
Schwarzenegger. It's said of a terminator that it can't be bargained with, it
can't be reasoned with, it doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear, and it
absolutely will not stop-- ever! --until you are deceased.

It's often been argued that God's death threat at Gen 2:15-17 wouldn't have
resonated in Adam's thinking had the man not seen dead birds and animals
in the garden on a regular basis; and I think that argument is quite
accurate. In other words; I do not believe Adam understood God to mean he
would die spiritually; but rather, physically, because that was the kind of
death with which Adam would have been familiar.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Rex]

When your interpretation of a passage contradicts what the words actually say then I believe you have a problem.

The Romans passage says death entered the world through sin. The passage does not say that death was already in the world but Adam wasn't subject to it until he sinned. When your interpretation changes what the words actually say that's a misinterpretation, or also called error.

Besides, this "consequential" and "inconsequential" death idea is not Scriptural. The two kinds of death, and life, are spiritual death and life and physical death and life. When Adam sinned, the day he sinned, the moment he ate that fruit, he died spiritually. And every human being born from Adam has likewise been born spiritually dead. That's why we all sin, because "death passed upon all men, for that [reason] all have sinned."

And that's what is such good news about the Gospel, that through faith in Jesus, the Spirit of God reaches down into our deepest heart of hearts and raises up our dead spirit to life, and to everlasting life. The Scriptures use several different words for it; quicken, regeneration, born again, but all these terms refer to the same thing, the work of the Holy Spirit in those of us who were dead in our sins who have been raised up to life in the spirit, everlasting life, which we have now. And this everlasting spiritual life that we have been given as a gift from God is a down payment on the immortality of our bodies which we will one day inherit on the day of judgment at the 2nd Coming of Jesus.

So bottom line, that's what it's all about, and that is why it is absolutely necessary to come to God through Jesus, because it is in Jesus that we experience that spiritual resurrection without which men remain dead in their sins.

That interpretation satisfies me because that's the Gospel.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Very nice