Stephen said:
Well hello again Stephen,
Still preaching rapture and unfounded allegations against Pastor Murray and the dreaded SERPENT SEED,
gasp, gasp teaching. :-* ;D
God's message on flying away to save our soul
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Well hello again Stephen,
Still preaching rapture and unfounded allegations against Pastor Murray and the dreaded SERPENT SEED,
gasp, gasp teaching. :-* ;D
"I resent your remarks and personal attacks and will report them
I havent a prejuticed bone in my body. you believe everything you read on the web ?What you cant prove your points in scripture so you attack.. You prove me wrong with your man made doctrines... Cant be done Gods Word is truth"
>Members of Murray's followers all do resent exposure
>And I can prove ..... what you say is not possible
>I would suggest that you move away from what you are following and to seek the Lord and His truth revealed in the prophetic scriptures
I havent a prejuticed bone in my body. you believe everything you read on the web ?What you cant prove your points in scripture so you attack.. You prove me wrong with your man made doctrines... Cant be done Gods Word is truth"
>Members of Murray's followers all do resent exposure
>And I can prove ..... what you say is not possible
>I would suggest that you move away from what you are following and to seek the Lord and His truth revealed in the prophetic scriptures
;D Knock yourself out Stephen. Post tons of incorrect, biased, character defamation of someone you know NOTHING ABOUT except through eyes blinded by the love of rapture. The belief of rapture is nothing more than a tomb for the dead.....
- Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Stephen said:
I call an ace an ace and a spaid a spaid here, and im correct in calling you a nut because anyone who would go out of his way to spread rumors and lies about one another and lies about the body of christ is certaily a nut, the bible makes it clear not to jugde and you have to cause division within the body of christ. Matthew 7:3, Matthew 7:4, and Matthew 7:5.
Not mere rumors about Murray .... but facts
I would suggest that you investigate just what you are following for you own sake
2timothy
4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
I would suggest that you investigate just what you are following for you own sake
2timothy
4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Stephen said:
Ok you think that pastor murray is such a false teacher i dare you to prove one single lie that the man has said without using links or information refrences. I will go one step further than that i dare you to find me that the word rapture even exists in the bible. Because you know something you cant do it and i doubt you even listen to pastor murrays program enough to judge anything.
With all due respect, if you're going to post a Christian hate-site's trash, CB will have to pass on that. It's a really sad statement of faith that some have nothing better to do than sit around cataloging information and assassinating the character of folks whom they don't agree with.
Any more junk like that will be removed. Thanks.
Any more junk like that will be removed. Thanks.
SwampFox said:
Well im sorry for adding fuel to the fire here swampfox but pastor murray is my trusted preacher and i get very sensitive when people throw rumors and lies around about the man that simply arnt true, Proverbs 20:19
Stephen said:
If you could read, you would have noticed that I said first AND second thes. You just don't understand what Paul wrote. Try this: Why did Paul say, "and now you know?" (2 Thes 2:6)
Coop
"Any more junk like that will be removed. Thanks."
>Go ahead and remove the "junk" .... thanks
>You have serprent seed posters on your forum and this movement is a documented cult
>Good luck with your forum .... and I would say that you are contributing to the teaching of false doctrines of demons which is strictly prohibited by the scriptures
>Learn something about these things before you make errors in your evaluations as a moderator .... CB should not pass on this one for sure
>Go ahead and remove the "junk" .... thanks
>You have serprent seed posters on your forum and this movement is a documented cult
>Good luck with your forum .... and I would say that you are contributing to the teaching of false doctrines of demons which is strictly prohibited by the scriptures
>Learn something about these things before you make errors in your evaluations as a moderator .... CB should not pass on this one for sure
Someone asked the question on a program this morning....."do the Kenites realize they are Kenites?" The answer was...."no, not all of them and they too can be saved." They have to get over pride and hate but they can be saved. God is longsuffering and full of mercy.
It's documented? Really? So your few websites (which, by the way anyone can start for as little as free or a few dollars a month on up) document a heretic and should themselves be taken as gospel? I would let the credibility of the man who stewarded over what God has seen fit to give him and grown from next to nothing speak for itself over a few websites that have absolutely nothing better to do than condemn other Christians who they don't agree with. When the only business is haranguing others and performing character assassination, perhaps the self-proclaimed titles are about as empty as they often sound.
We already have an accuser day and night, we don't need others by his side. We need salt!
Can't help but be reminded of the first part of John 8 here.
We already have an accuser day and night, we don't need others by his side. We need salt!
Can't help but be reminded of the first part of John 8 here.
Uh oh steven
I looked on the web Guess what you have a false doctrine
and guess it must be true its all over the web many people know its false
The Rapture—A Popular but False Doctrine!
The rapture, often called "the blessed hope," is sadly more hoax than hope, even though the man who started it had no intention of deceiving anyone. You need to know what the Bible actually says!
by Cecil E. Maranville
The rapture is widely taught and believed in Christianity today. Popular books and movies spin themes around this doctrine that essentially teaches Christ will come back twice, first coming only into the atmosphere to snatch believers away to heaven for several years; then actually returning to set foot on the earth.
We live in a time when most are content to get their knowledge of religion secondhand, preferably through dramatic presentations, including stage, screen and novels.
But you cannot afford to neglect your personal responsibility to prove the truth!
Those willing to take a careful look at the Bible will see that the rapture theory doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of God's Word.
The rapture was popularized in the 1970s by Hal Lindsey's writings (The Late Great Planet Earth, etc.) and more recently by Jim Jenkins and Tim LaHaye in their Left Behind fictional books and films. But where did the idea of the rapture originate?
The origin of the rapture theory
http://www.gnmagazine.org/wnp/wnp0809/rapture-false-doctrine.htm
I looked on the web Guess what you have a false doctrine
and guess it must be true its all over the web many people know its false
The Rapture—A Popular but False Doctrine!
The rapture, often called "the blessed hope," is sadly more hoax than hope, even though the man who started it had no intention of deceiving anyone. You need to know what the Bible actually says!
by Cecil E. Maranville
The rapture is widely taught and believed in Christianity today. Popular books and movies spin themes around this doctrine that essentially teaches Christ will come back twice, first coming only into the atmosphere to snatch believers away to heaven for several years; then actually returning to set foot on the earth.
We live in a time when most are content to get their knowledge of religion secondhand, preferably through dramatic presentations, including stage, screen and novels.
But you cannot afford to neglect your personal responsibility to prove the truth!
Those willing to take a careful look at the Bible will see that the rapture theory doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of God's Word.
The rapture was popularized in the 1970s by Hal Lindsey's writings (The Late Great Planet Earth, etc.) and more recently by Jim Jenkins and Tim LaHaye in their Left Behind fictional books and films. But where did the idea of the rapture originate?
The origin of the rapture theory
http://www.gnmagazine.org/wnp/wnp0809/rapture-false-doctrine.htm
This threads topic is about the Rapture/Catching away.. Why derail it with a debate on some such church.
People should deal with the topic at hand and put forward their points on it.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
People should deal with the topic at hand and put forward their points on it.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Christina said:
I see.
Your problem is with the Word Rapture. You can only see it as pre-trib Rapture.
For me the word Rapture simply means an event that happens upon the return of the Messiah Jesus. One that is not before the tribulation.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
lecoop said:
Glad too.
First things first. you quoted me as saying:
"Pre trib is an Entire man made doctrine we call Rapture it not about a verse or a Word it is and entire concept of secret comings and escape thats not written "
I did not say this. This quote is from christina not from me.
Ok now for my quote:
"why their [pretrib] doctrine is wrong"
I have posted my thoughts before on the Rapture in the prophecy section. I am happy to post them again here for you. I would hope that you would desist in using inflammatory terms such as "blowing smoke" in the future. It does not assist in creating a calm atmosphere.
I am a post-trib rapture believer. People tend to get overly passionate about their rapture timing beliefs which is sad because rapture timing should not be seen as a central doctrine of our faith. It is a disputable matter. We should not be straining at a gnat.
You asked for my input on the matter. Well i will post what i have posted on earlier threads related to rapture.
The Day of the Lord is the Day of the Messiah's Second Coming Jesus describes what will happen on that day. I will bold the words i wish you to take close note of.
Matthew 24
27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
So After the tribulation Jesus will return and gather the elect to Him.
There is another Rapture verse spoken of by Jesus that links the Day of the Lord to the Rapture.
Luke 17
29but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31" In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."
When will the Son of Man (Messiah Jesus) be revealed? At His second coming the Day of the Lord. Who will take the sleeping man and the woman grinding and the man working in the field? The angels sent out in Matthew 24 verse 21
It is also nice to note that Jesus revealed that this will be a world wide event because at the time of His return it will be day on one half of the world "In that day" and it will be night on the other half of the world "in that night"
Also this will be an event that will take place in a twinkling of an eye Paul reveals the rapture and its timing at the Last trumpet this scripture is probably the best rapture supporting scripture in the bible:
1 Corrinthians15:
49And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
Here Paul is saying that as we inhabit earthly bodies derived from dust so shall we inhabit new bodies changed and not made of dust. Paul goes on to explain why:
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
So the bodies that we inhabit cannot enter the Kingdom of God and also "corruption" dead bodies must also be changed also. Then Paul reveals a mystery:
51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
So Paul is saying that "we shall not all sleep" now I hope everyone can agree that he is talking about physical death here? Paul is saying not everyone will experience physical death. He goes on to say that "we shall all be changed" both the dead and the living "in a moment", now at this point it could be argued that both the dead and the living could be changed in a moment in time, but at different times. That is to say the moment is only referring to the time it takes to change, not at the same moment. But we read on and Paul states the moment will be. "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." So not only shall both the living and the dead be changed to inherit the Kingdom of God But they will both change at the same moment, at the last trumpet. As He goes on to say "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Paul goes on to explain it in more detail:
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory.
So here again we see Paul referring to the two states of being that the saints will be in at the time of the 1st Resurrection/Rapture "So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality," Dead saints and living saints caught up together in a twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet.
So from what we have read the first resurrection and the rapture (although different experiences for them that take part) will happen at the same instant in time at the last trumpet.
So now we go on to the next scripture this is the last trumpet revealed in the book of Revelation:
Revelation10
7but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
Now the sounding of the seventh Angel is the last of a series of seven trumpets in revelation. Note that the scripture says the "Mystery of God would be finished" now the coming of the Messiah has been described by scripture at a coming in the sky (a darkened sky) and all people will see Him. Now after this event there will be on ifs or buts about the Mystery of God because all will see that God is and who He is. Everyone will know from that moment on, there will be no Mystery left. As for the darkening of the sky this is described as happening beforehand on the sounding of the forth trumpet:
Revelation 8
12 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.
Now This brings up the belief in two resurrections. The resurrection of the saints that happens at the second coming and the resurrection of the rest of mankind at the end of the 1000 years for the great final Judgement. The Book of Revelation chapter 20 clearly states that their will be two distinct resurrections one at the return of the Messiah Jesus and another at the end of the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus:
Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
satanic Rebellion Crushed
(1) 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[2] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[3] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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