God's Sovereignty & Free Will

[LC627]

Romans 8:29 - For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

I believe that the sovereignty of God and man's free will are harmonized. I also believe in predestination with one clear position: God's foreknowledge. God knew everything that would happen before a single day of creation had passed. God's foreknowledge in no way causes Him to be responsible for the actions of man. Many people have a hard time accepting that God knew everything before time started and yet still created knowing that there would be evil and suffering. Let me first say, I feel your pain. I understand. We must also understand that we will not know every mystery of God's will or purpose. God having foreknowledge does not mean He is responsible for the actions / choices of man.

God in His foreknowledge knew who would love Him and His Son and would devote their lives to Him just as God knew who would not.

Was it unfair of God to create the world knowing that many would be lost? I do not believe so. I believe we must ask, why should those who would come to Christ miss out on the great blessings of Heaven on the basis that many would refuse to believe? It was not unfair of God because He is not the one who is responsible for the choices of individuals. We must give an account of our life before God, we must answer for what we did. God desires that all be saved, it is important to realize that even God doesn't get what He desires.

Foreknowledge = Predestination​

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Romans 8:29 - For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

I believe that the sovereignty of God and man's free will are harmonized. I also believe in predestination with one clear position: God's foreknowledge. God knew everything that would happen before a single day of creation had passed. God's foreknowledge in no way causes Him to be responsible for the actions of man. Many people have a hard time accepting that God knew everything before time started and yet still created knowing that there would be evil and suffering. Let me first say, I feel your pain. I understand. We must also understand that we will not know every mystery of God's will or purpose. God having foreknowledge does not mean He is responsible for the actions / choices of man.

God in His foreknowledge knew who would love Him and His Son and would devote their lives to Him just as God knew who would not.

Was it unfair of God to create the world knowing that many would be lost? I do not believe so. I believe we must ask, why should those who would come to Christ miss out on the great blessings of Heaven on the basis that many would refuse to believe? It was not unfair of God because He is not the one who is responsible for the choices of individuals. We must give an account of our life before God, we must answer for what we did. God desires that all be saved, it is important to realize that even God doesn't get what He desires.

Foreknowledge = Predestination​

‘Foreknow’: could it mean what it says which is that God foreknew those that are His and weaved them into His plan of redemption for His purpose and glory.

Romans 11:2-4 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, [3] Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. [4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

So how does that fit in with ‘free will’ and man chooses? Hasn’t God already chosen those He ‘foreknew’ from the foundation of the world. And if He ‘foreknew’ those that are His, how could they ever hear the dreaded words of Luke 13:27
[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7:23
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Psalm 6:8
[8] Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the Lord hath heard the voice of my weeping.

 

[LC627]

‘Foreknow’: could it mean what it says which is that God foreknew those that are His and weaved them into His plan of redemption for His purpose and glory.

Romans 11:2-4 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, [3] Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. [4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

So how does that fit in with ‘free will’ and man chooses? Hasn’t God already chosen those He ‘foreknew’ from the foundation of the world. And if He ‘foreknew’ those that are His, how could they ever hear the dreaded words of Luke 13:27
[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7:23
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Psalm 6:8
[8] Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the Lord hath heard the voice of my weeping.

God did foreknow and through His foreknowledge He predestined. He knew who would believe, this is why He was able to choose those in Christ before the foundation of the world. It is mysterious and something we can't and may I add, won't fully understand with our minds. When it comes to free will, I believe that humans are free in action and thought but not free in spiritual condition. It is very clear that mankind is a slave to sin and depraved but it is also true that I make many choices throughout the day where I can reason and decide how I want to choose my conduct. I can choose to curse or I can choose to praise God, I can choose to help someone or neglect them, etc.

 

[bbyrd009]

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

2 Corinthians 12:2-4
[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. [3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth [4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God having foreknowledge does not mean He is responsible for the actions / choices of man.

Romans 8:28
[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Doesn’t that mean even our worst mistakes and supposed failures: God works all things together for the good of them who are called according to His purpose? How then is God not responsible for the actions He uses and turns to good for His purpose?

 

[bbyrd009]

ya, oops

2 Corinthians 12:2-4
[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. [3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth [4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

?

well, "whether in or out of body, he could not tell."
1Boasting is necessary. It is not profitable, but I will move on to visions and revelations of the Lord.
5I will boast about this person, but not about myself, except of my weaknesses.

imo Paul is referring to himself, "14 years ago," having a vision; not saying that he died and went to heaven, as he is careful to clarify. Not even admitting to it being him, but going right into his thorn.

kind of hard to interpret through our lens, as an admission like that would be received differently then than now. But lying was punishable by death then, it just changes the whole dynamic imo.

so what comes off now as false humility would not have been perceived then, i don't think; not many today would consider "boasting" about a vision, for instance; that would not be much of a boast today, like it would have then

 

[LC627]

Romans 8:28
[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Doesn’t that mean even our worst mistakes and supposed failures: God works all things together for the good of them who are called according to His purpose? How then is God not responsible for the actions He uses and turns to good for His purpose?

I'm a firm believer that God can use anything for good, even the worst of our mistakes. You made a good point in your reply, "our mistakes", something we have done wrong. God is perfect in nature and character and makes no mistakes.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ya, oops

well, "whether in or out of body, he could not tell."
1Boasting is necessary. It is not profitable, but I will move on to visions and revelations of the Lord.
5I will boast about this person, but not about myself, except of my weaknesses.

imo Paul is referring to himself, "14 years ago," having a vision; not saying that he died and went to heaven, as he is careful to clarify. Not even admitting to it being him, but going right into his thorn.

kind of hard to interpret through our lens, as an admission like that would be received differently then than now. But lying was punishable by death then, it just changes the whole dynamic imo.

so what comes off now as false humility would not have been perceived then, i don't think; not many today would consider "boasting" about a vision, for instance; that would not be much of a boast today, like it would have then

Agree. I was going to mention the Revelation of Jesus Christ given to John also. Where John said he looked and saw a door open in Heaven but that only proves what you pointed out pertaining to Paul’s ‘vision’. John was in Spirit. Makes one consider what all we will be capable of in spirit: Revelation 5:5
[5] And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

John ‘in Spirit’... wept and spoke as in the body.