Grace or Law...are they really contradictory, or complimentary?

[mjrhealth]

Love is never conceited....and love is never rude.

And there are some who should take notice of that???

 

[IanLC]

Grace is the fulfillment of the Law! (Matthew 5:17)
The Law (Moses) Pointed to Grace (Jesus)! (Romans 10:4)
Grace took the Law and wrote it on the hearts of men through the Spirit! (2 Corinthians 3:3)

 

[lforrest]

What is greater the spirit that has given the law, or the law itself?
The Spirit, of course, is greater than the Law.

Why many christians still fixate on the law legalisticly instead of discerning the truth behind it is beyond me.

An analogy: (assuming you drive on the right side of the road) Your making a right turn on red after stopping, but crossed the line at the intersection first. You then get a ticket for doing so. You obeyed the spirit of the Law, which is traffic safety. Yet you broke the letter of it, which is to stop behind the line at the intersection. You got a ticket because the world is unjust, but God is Just.

 

[Barrd]

What is greater the spirit that has given the law, or the law itself?
The Spirit, of course, is greater than the Law.

Why many christians still fixate on the law legalisticly instead of discerning the truth behind it is beyond me.

An analogy: (assuming you drive on the right side of the road) Your making a right turn on red after stopping, but crossed the line at the intersection first. You then get a ticket for doing so. You obeyed the spirit of the Law, which is traffic safety. Yet you broke the letter of it, which is to stop behind the line at the intersection. You got a ticket because the world is unjust, but God is Just.

What is greater the spirit that has given the law, or the law itself?
The Spirit, of course, is greater than the Law.

Why many christians still fixate on the law legalisticly instead of discerning the truth behind it is beyond me.

An analogy: (assuming you drive on the right side of the road) Your making a right turn on red after stopping, but crossed the line at the intersection first. You then get a ticket for doing so. You obeyed the spirit of the Law, which is traffic safety. Yet you broke the letter of it, which is to stop behind the line at the intersection. You got a ticket because the world is unjust, but God is Just.

God is just.
People are not.

 

[brakelite]

It is glaringly obvious that within the faith community, as indicated by the responses in this thread, that there is a major problem in our core belief system if we cannot agree over such a basic a concept as obedience to God's commandments.It really is quite astonishing, and little wonder that people are looking for answers to life within Islam and Eastern mysticism rather than Christianity.This is to our shame and something we will answer to God for, if not now, certainly later. There is no excuse for being in error...we all have available to us the scriptures and vast libraries of information via the internet as well as the God given freedoms of speech and free association that we are partaking of here in this forum, thus again I say, we have no excuse, and must accept personal responsibility for our wrong thinking and the confusion which drives so many away.I will repeat what I wrote in the OP and ask the question...please...tell me how I am wrong in my conclusion: that is, that the purpose of God's recreating power is for enabling obedience. This is the experiential grace of God working in us that our lives may be in harmony with His laws. Thus there is most assuredly a harmony between grace and law...not a contradiction. ???

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Note that the carnal mind is not subject to God's laws...the carnal mind cannot obey God...it is in fact at war with God)
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(But note the very next word).....

9 But ....BUT....ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Do you really have the Spirit of God in you????

If you do, then.....

(Note this carefully.The born again Spirit filled believer in Christ is set in direct contradistinction to the carnal flesh minded unsaved unregenerated non-believer. The latter cannot obey God...but the former..what can He do??? Surely he can obey the law...he was even re-created for that very purpose!!!)

So why is there such antagonism against God's laws? ( After arguing with me on this you can go on to that other discussion site and continue your fight to reinstate the Ten Commandments to the local court house wall. :wacko:

 

[Barrd]

It is glaringly obvious that within the faith community, as indicated by the responses in this thread, that there is a major problem in our core belief system if we cannot agree over such a basic a concept as obedience to God's commandments.It really is quite astonishing, and little wonder that people are looking for answers to life within Islam and Eastern mysticism rather than Christianity.This is to our shame and something we will answer to God for, if not now, certainly later. There is no excuse for being in error...we all have available to us the scriptures and vast libraries of information via the internet as well as the God given freedoms of speech and free association that we are partaking of here in this forum, thus again I say, we have no excuse, and must accept personal responsibility for our wrong thinking and the confusion which drives so many away.I will repeat what I wrote in the OP and ask the question...please...tell me how I am wrong in my conclusion: that is, that the purpose of God's recreating power is for enabling obedience. This is the experiential grace of God working in us that our lives may be in harmony with His laws. Thus there is most assuredly a harmony between grace and law...not a contradiction. ???

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Note that the carnal mind is not subject to God's laws...the carnal mind cannot obey God...it is in fact at war with God)
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(But note the very next word).....

9 But ....BUT....ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Do you really have the Spirit of God in you????

If you do, then.....

(Note this carefully.The born again Spirit filled believer in Christ is set in direct contradistinction to the carnal flesh minded unsaved unregenerated non-believer. The latter cannot obey God...but the former..what can He do??? Surely he can obey the law...he was even re-created for that very purpose!!!)

So why is there such antagonism against God's laws? ( After arguing with me on this you can go on to that other discussion site and continue your fight to reinstate the Ten Commandments to the local court house wall. :wacko:

Oh, my precious brother! I had a mouthful of juice when I read that last line...do you have any idea what a mess you caused?

But you are quite right, of course.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

See? Jesus agrees with you, too.

 

[mjrhealth]

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments

Yes if you love Him you will Love all as He commanded.

In all His Love

 

[Barrd]

Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

By keeping these commandments, you are loving God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul. If you wish to keep the first great commandment, you must keep these commandments.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


By keeping these commandments, you are loving your neighbor as yourself. If you wish to keep the second commandment, you must keep these commandments.


The guy who asked this question was a Jewish lawyer. Certainly, he knew the Ten Commandments. His question was meant to trap Jesus into saying something against the law...but Jesus neatly side stepped his little trap with an answer that summed up the entire Decalogue.

 

[mjrhealth]

By keeping these commandments, you are loving your neighbor as yourself. If you wish to keep the second commandment, you must keep these commandments.

Oh how you have it so wrong. the law cannot make you love anyone. It is love that fullfills the law it is not the law that makes one love.

Do you know why God created teh world?? because of His love for man,
And why did He create man, because of love,
Why did He put man into an earthen vessel, becuase of Love, he knew what we where going to do and he needed a way to save us..
Do you know why he gave teh Jews teh law, because of love, he wanted to show mankind that no matter how hard we work at it we cannot make Him love us more than He already does,
Do you know why he allowed the gentiles to come to Him by grace alone by faith, because he wanted to show the Jews there was a better way,
You know His commandnments to Love that is how we fullfill teh law, we are not and never where under the law.
Love doesnt need the Law to do good, nor to do whats right.
Do you know why we have grace

This Bit

Luk 7:42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

There is this bit..

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

So why is it that you insist on laying stumbling blocks before men, things that keep men from God, that makes a mockery of his free gift of grace.

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal_5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

In all his Love

 

[Raeneske]

Now let me whisper in your ear:

1Co 13:4 Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

(Notice how I replaced that word "charity" with "love")

What else does love not do?
Love is never conceited....and love is never rude.

Of course, we are all still stuck in these flesh bodies...and we still do get frustrated with one another, and sometimes we let that creep into the posts that we type.
I'm certainly not perfect in that regard

But with God's help, and a couple of precious brothers as my example, I am working on it.

And I am praying for you, too. You're too good a guy to give in to your temper. When we do such things, we bring shame to Christ's church...

I don't think I was angry responding to anyone, but thank you! You are very right. We need to strive to be more and more like Christ!

Here is a wonderful thing God has shown me. Look at His law, and try to carry out the opposite of sin Each and every single point, and you will be amazed at what you see!