Guidelines for Revelation

[Axehead]

http://biblia.com/books/kjv/Lu6.16Part I - Guidelines for Revelation, today.

Many think that Apostolic Revelation since Jesus' time has continued and therefore this continuiing "revelation" is equal with revelation given the Apostles and Prophets. Is there new revelation given each century through men that is on the same level of authority as Scripture? This is what I want to delve into, in this thread.

Is there any word of man today on the same level of authority as God?

Is revelation continued or completed?

What are the guidelines for the Church, today?

Mormonism has developed by "angelic" revelation.

They say, "IN the BIBLE is contained the Word of God. We believe in the principle of continuous revelation."

This belief opens them to revelation from "angels".

Are there men today that God speaks through as He did with Prophets and Apostles?

The Sanhedrin hadn't given Him authority and wanted to know where He got His authority from?

Jesus said, "From heaven."

Manifested Sons (cult) say "The Word is dead." They raised prophecy to the level of Divine authority. They say that modern day prophets can speak scripture (new scripture) and it is not to be judged. "The Bible is good, but Revelation is better."

Divine Revelation has come through two sources:
1. Prophets
2. Apostles
a. Luke and Jude were approved apostolically.

3. Who is Jude (Greek: Judas)? What evidence is there in verse 1 and 17? The best theory is that Jude was the half-brother of Jesus, since he describes himself in verse 1 (evidence) as the "brother of James" whom we know to be Christ's half-brother (Mt. 13:55; Acts 1:14; 1 Co. 9:5; Gal. 1:19). This Jude (or Judas) is referred to in Mark 6:3. He could not be Judas the apostle (Luke 6:16).

Acts 1:21-23 Apostle
Act 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Act 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

These were the qualifications for appointing a new Apostle to take Judas Iscariot's place.

Apostles had to have an encounter with Christ and to have sat directly under His teachings.

However, and it can only be personal opinion, but I believe God had Paul in mind.
1. He saw the Lord personally
2. His call (1 Cor 15:9) For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
3. Not sent by men. - But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal 1:11-12)


Only 12 Apostles (first 12) sent from God including Paul. Today's apostles are sent from men and do not have the same qualifications or level of authority (establishing "new" revelation).

PAUL
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

There is No man today that has the same level of authority or qualifications of the Apostles.

Prophets and Apostles are on the same level of authority. Prophets received a revelation still in progress while Apostles received the completed revelation.

Does this remind you of anything, today?

Eze 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

Jer 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the (false) prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

Jer 23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the (false) prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

Two Levels of Authority

1. High level of revelation coming from God / Holy Scriptures
2. Lower level of revelation - That each believer has to understand revelation. How hearts/spirit are enlightened or illuminated to truth, already revealed.

Two Levels of Prophets

1. The OT Prophets speak the Word of God. Authority is inherent with the CALL of GOD. We do not have this authority today. There is the call of God today, but not on men to formulate new scripture or truths outside of the Bible.

2. Lower level of authority today. Prophets speak to edify the Body of Christ. (1 Cor 14:2-3).

Axehead

 

[Trekson]

Hi Axehead, Hmmm. A very interesting topic!

I do agree with this statement you made: "There is No man today that has the same level of authority or qualifications of the Apostles."
However, I don't believe prophetic revelations ended with the Book of Revelation. Daniel tells us that in the latter days “knowledge will increase“. I'm open to the possibility that some of that knowledge could come from some latter day prophets.

As was discussed in another topic, I believe… Acts 2:17-18 -
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy .

…is still ongoing. I admit that with all the so-called “revelations” out there, I’m generally skeptical about their validity, yet still open to the possibility some of them are from God, or will be in the near future, only time will tell. I believe the visions and dreams of the above verse are implying things dealing with future events.


You also made this statement: “Prophets and Apostles are on the same level of authority. Prophets received a revelation still in progress while Apostles received the completed revelation.”

I’m not sure I agree with that one. Not all the apostles rec’d the completed Revelation if you’re considering the Book of Revelation to be included. That was only given to John after the rest of them were dead. If you’re talking the gospel in general, than Paul was shown things the other apostles weren’t, except for possibly Peter

Paul, Peter and John all had prophetic points in some of their letters that seemed to be outside the scope of what Christ revealed to them while He was on earth and differed from what was already revealed in the OT.


I’d like to hear what other people thing as well.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Axehead,

I really don't know if I agree with the statement you've posted, because the message never depends on the messenger, except as they relay the message God has given them.

I don't mean to make a case for scripture to be added to. That was not my point. We do not desire God to stop speaking to us. Instead of being - as it were - at the trunk of the tree, we are now spread all over the world, and God can speak to every one of us.

Authority is inherent with the CALL of GOD. We do not have this authority today.

I would not link 'authority' to God's call itself, as much as to obedience to His call. The response of the one called makes all the difference to whether God's call is effective in their life - which would include their exercising the authority He has given to carry out His commands.

Even when the prophets received words from God, they did not necessarily write them down. We have some of what was said by God, because He told them to write it, too.

What are the guidelines for the Church, today?

This will be an interesting discussion!

 

[Axehead]

Hi Axehead, Hmmm. A very interesting topic!

I do agree with this statement you made: "There is No man today that has the same level of authority or qualifications of the Apostles."
However, I don't believe prophetic revelations ended with the Book of Revelation. Daniel tells us that in the latter days “knowledge will increase“. I'm open to the possibility that some of that knowledge could come from some latter day prophets.

I believe the Lord will progressively "unseal" or reveal to us in the latter days, what is already in Scripture. Not "NEW", extra-biblical revelation.

As was discussed in another topic, I believe… Acts 2:17-18 -

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy .

And we know that NT prophetic gifts are for the building up of the Body, not foretelling of future events which then become new scripture.

…is still ongoing. I admit that with all the so-called “revelations” out there, I’m generally skeptical about their validity, yet still open to the possibility some of them are from God, or will be in the near future, only time will tell. I believe the visions and dreams of the above verse are implying things dealing with future events.

God has been known to give us direction in dreams related to our future. Many have been given revelation in dreams that shed light on already written scripture. But no new Revelation on par with Scripture will be given. That has been completed.

You also made this statement: “Prophets and Apostles are on the same level of authority. Prophets received a revelation still in progress while Apostles received the completed revelation.”

I’m not sure I agree with that one. Not all the apostles rec’d the completed Revelation if you’re considering the Book of Revelation to be included. That was only given to John after the rest of them were dead. If you’re talking the gospel in general, than Paul was shown things the other apostles weren’t, except for possibly Peter

I am referring to the "revelation of Jesus Christ and His Gospel".

Paul, Peter and John all had prophetic points in some of their letters that seemed to be outside the scope of what Christ revealed to them while He was on earth and differed from what was already revealed in the OT.

They were revealed to them by the Spirit of Christ. This type of revelation which resulted in scripture is not being revealed to anyone, anymore.

I’d like to hear what other people thing as well.

Me too! And thanks for your contribution.


Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Trekson,

If you’re talking the gospel in general, than Paul was shown things the other apostles weren’t, except for possibly Peter

Paul, Peter and John all had prophetic points in some of their letters that seemed to be outside the scope of what Christ revealed to them while He was on earth and differed from what was already revealed in the OT.


I’d like to hear what other people thing as well.

We have to make sense of our Father's purpose in sending the Holy Spirit upon all who obey Him, taking into account all that Jesus explained of the Holy Spirit's ministry. There is 'fellowship' in the Holy Spirit which cannot be mistaken by those who know the Lord. But there is also plenty of room for charlatans to represent their revelations as having come from God.

 

[Axehead]

Hi Axehead,

I really don't know if I agree with the statement you've posted, because the message never depends on the messenger, except as they relay the message God has given them.

I appreciate the details that you bring. That is true. The messenger has to be obedient (against all opposition) and relay God's message. Otherwise, He may get a donkey to do His work.

I don't mean to make a case for scripture to be added to. That was not my point. We do not desire God to stop speaking to us. Instead of being - as it were - at the trunk of the tree, we are now spread all over the world, and God can speak to every one of us.

I would not link 'authority' to God's call itself, as much as to obedience to His call. The response of the one called makes all the difference to whether God's call is effective in their life - which would include their exercising the authority He has given to carry out His commands.

Even when the prophets received words from God, they did not necessarily write them down. We have some of what was said by God, because He told them to write it, too.

Totally agree.

Axehead

This will be an interesting discussion!

I hope so. I have not done Part II, yet. but I will give everyone time to "munch" on part I.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Axehead,

And we know that NT prophetic gifts are for the building up of the Body, not foretelling of future events which then become new scripture.

Some prophetic words do indeed foretell of future events. The case for adding them to scripture would be difficult to make, though.

I was writing while you posted to me. Thanks for your replies. They are appreciated.

 

[Axehead]

Hi Axehead,

[/color]

Some prophetic words do indeed foretell of future events. The case for adding them to scripture would be difficult to make, though.

I was writing while you posted to me. Thanks for your replies. They are appreciated.

Np. Thank you. In my walk with God over the last 3 decades, I have had 3 dreams that warned me of future events. Two I obeyed and 1 I did not. If it wasn't for the mercy of God the 3rd one would certainly have come true and that would not have been good. These dreams were all personal and not for the Body and certainly not eligible as New Scripture.

Let's agree right now, there is absolutely NOTHING that is eligible as New Scripture, or on par with it, spoken or written.

Cults, however, are exempt from this agreement just by nature of how they operate.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

Let's agree right now, there is absolutely NOTHING that is eligible as New Scripture, or on par with it, spoken or written.

You're probably right. I don't know why I hesitate to agree with a more whole-hearted 'Amen'. I think I like the idea that God could still surprise us. But... that would not necessarily mean a word being added to the Bible we have now....

I feel as if that pronouncement is above my pay-grade! ;)

 

[Axehead]

You're probably right. I don't know why I hesitate to agree with a more whole-hearted 'Amen'. I think I like the idea that God could still surprise us. But... that would not necessarily mean a word being added to the Bible we have now....

I feel as if that pronouncement is above my pay-grade! ;)

God's Word to you personally, will be God's Word to you and thus it must be obeyed whether it has it's source in Scripture or not.

What I am trying to address is God's Word to someone personally, and how they would think it now becomes God's Word for everyone for all time in the same vein as Scripture is.

I may have to get even more explicit. I will wait for the comments from everyone to see if I do.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

What I am trying to address is God's Word to someone personally, and how they would think it now becomes God's Word for everyone for all time in the same vein as Scripture is.

Ahhh!

 

[veteran]

God's Word to you personally, will be God's Word to you and thus it must be obeyed whether it has it's source in Scripture or not.
....
Axehead

In other words, even though someone is MISINTERPRETING God's Word, they still MUST FOLLOW their MISINTERPRETATION.

That's an ignorant and backward idea of devils.

 

[Trekson]

Hi Axehead, Your words: What I am trying to address is God's Word to someone personally, and how they would think it now becomes God's Word for everyone for all time in the same vein as Scripture is.

I have seen this sort of thing happen. An example would be an alcoholic that has been delivered from his habit. Seeing as how this was a "sin that easily beset them", the Holy Spirit has impressed upon them to never under any circumstances drink again. They interpret this as a command from God that total abstination is a commandment that implies to everyone, when it doesn't.

In this circumstance, you really don't want to argue the point because than you would in a manner of speaking, be sinning via 1 Cor. 8:10-13 - " For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, won’t he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? [sup]11 [/sup]So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. [sup]12 [/sup]When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. [sup]13 [/sup]Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

I also agree with your statement: "I believe the Lord will progressively "unseal" or reveal to us in the latter days, what is already in Scripture. Not "NEW", extra-biblical revelation." ...but with the caveat that sometimes the "unsealing" can seem like new because it can take a direction we didn't expect.

 

[veteran]

Hi Axehead, Hmmm. A very interesting topic!

I do agree with this statement you made: "There is No man today that has the same level of authority or qualifications of the Apostles."
However, I don't believe prophetic revelations ended with the Book of Revelation. Daniel tells us that in the latter days “knowledge will increase“. I'm open to the possibility that some of that knowledge could come from some latter day prophets.

As was discussed in another topic, I believe… Acts 2:17-18 -
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy .

…is still ongoing. I admit that with all the so-called “revelations” out there, I’m generally skeptical about their validity, yet still open to the possibility some of them are from God, or will be in the near future, only time will tell. I believe the visions and dreams of the above verse are implying things dealing with future events.


You also made this statement: “Prophets and Apostles are on the same level of authority. Prophets received a revelation still in progress while Apostles received the completed revelation.”

I’m not sure I agree with that one. Not all the apostles rec’d the completed Revelation if you’re considering the Book of Revelation to be included. That was only given to John after the rest of them were dead. If you’re talking the gospel in general, than Paul was shown things the other apostles weren’t, except for possibly Peter

Paul, Peter and John all had prophetic points in some of their letters that seemed to be outside the scope of what Christ revealed to them while He was on earth and differed from what was already revealed in the OT.


I’d like to hear what other people thing as well.

If this thread is an attempt to try and prove our Lord's Book of Revelation is all past history, then I do not buy into that baloney at all. If it's to try dissuade brethren away from study of Revelation for the end time events to today, I don't buy into that baloney either.

Revelation comes to us (Christ's Church) directly from our Lord Jesus Christ via His servant John, as written in Rev.1:1. Enough said on its Source then.


It's easy to know that our Lord's Book of Revelation has events in it that ONLY those living in the last generation on earth would truly understand. In Rev.11 with the bodies of God's two witnesses laying dead in the plaza in Jerusalem, and all peoples 'seeing' them, that points to today's satellite technology. How far would we have to go back in history to where that wouldn't be understood in today's technology context?

The Book of Revelation has direct parallels to many prophecies first given in the Books of God's OT prophets. So it's benign to push Revelation into some new prophetic design apart from those prophets also. What our Lord Jesus was doing was giving us some more details of what He first gave through the OT prophets about the end of this present world and His second coming. His second coming was first written of back in Zechariah 14, which has direct NT parallels.

The problem many brethren have with trying to understand Revelation is how they have not first done their homework in the Old Testament Books of the prophets. I see no valid reason to repeat basic math lessons within a class on Calculus. So I see no reason why our Lord would have to repeat Himself all over again in Revelation with the earlier details He gave in the OT prophets. And that's many's problem in studying Revelation, they're trying to grope through Calculus prior to understanding basic math.

 

[Pelaides]

If this thread is an attempt to try and prove our Lord's Book of Revelation is all past history, then I do not buy into that baloney at all. If it's to try dissuade brethren away from study of Revelation for the end time events to today, I don't buy into that baloney either.

Revelation comes to us (Christ's Church) directly from our Lord Jesus Christ via His servant John, as written in Rev.1:1. Enough said on its Source then.


It's easy to know that our Lord's Book of Revelation has events in it that ONLY those living in the last generation on earth would truly understand. In Rev.11 with the bodies of God's two witnesses laying dead in the plaza in Jerusalem, and all peoples 'seeing' them, that points to today's satellite technology. How far would we have to go back in history to where that wouldn't be understood in today's technology context?

The Book of Revelation has direct parallels to many prophecies first given in the Books of God's OT prophets. So it's benign to push Revelation into some new prophetic design apart from those prophets also. What our Lord Jesus was doing was giving us some more details of what He first gave through the OT prophets about the end of this present world and His second coming. His second coming was first written of back in Zechariah 14, which has direct NT parallels.

The problem many brethren have with trying to understand Revelation is how they have not first done their homework in the Old Testament Books of the prophets. I see no valid reason to repeat basic math lessons within a class on Calculus. So I see no reason why our Lord would have to repeat Himself all over again in Revelation with the earlier details He gave in the OT prophets. And that's many's problem in studying Revelation, they're trying to grope through Calculus prior to understanding basic math.

These are going to be the last 2 prophets .clothed in sackcloth,they will be hated by most of mankind.

 

[Axehead]

In other words, even though someone is MISINTERPRETING God's Word, they still MUST FOLLOW their MISINTERPRETATION.

That's an ignorant and backward idea of devils.

Bless you, too, Veteran! There is the written word and the word that He speaks to us by His Spirit and they are always in agreement.

Axehead

If this thread is an attempt to try and prove our Lord's Book of Revelation is all past history, then I do not buy into that baloney at all. If it's to try dissuade brethren away from study of Revelation for the end time events to today, I don't buy into that baloney either.

Well, if you actually read the OP, you would not be asking that question.

That makes the rest of your post irrelevant. Go back and read the OP.

Axehead

Hi Axehead, Your words: What I am trying to address is God's Word to someone personally, and how they would think it now becomes God's Word for everyone for all time in the same vein as Scripture is.

I have seen this sort of thing happen. An example would be an alcoholic that has been delivered from his habit. Seeing as how this was a "sin that easily beset them", the Holy Spirit has impressed upon them to never under any circumstances drink again. They interpret this as a command from God that total abstination is a commandment that implies to everyone, when it doesn't.

In this circumstance, you really don't want to argue the point because than you would in a manner of speaking, be sinning via 1 Cor. 8:10-13 - " For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, won’t he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? [sup]11 [/sup]So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. [sup]12 [/sup]When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. [sup]13 [/sup]Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

I also agree with your statement: "I believe the Lord will progressively "unseal" or reveal to us in the latter days, what is already in Scripture. Not "NEW", extra-biblical revelation." ...but with the caveat that sometimes the "unsealing" can seem like new because it can take a direction we didn't expect.

Amen, Trekson.

These are going to be the last 2 prophets .clothed in sackcloth,they will be hated by most of mankind.

HELLOOOO! We are not talking about the Book of Revelation.

:blink: :wacko: :huh:

 

[veteran]

Bless you, too, Veteran! There is the written word and the word that He speaks to us by His Spirit and they are always in agreement.

Axehead

Possibly, you didn't mean it the way you said it. But you did imply that very idea, which of course is wrong.

There's a major difference between understanding Scripture up to a point where some things are not still clear, vs. a misunderstanding even in the simple parts of Scripture many have today. Those with misunderstanding should be shown their error by those called and given to know, not just allowed to continue to believe their error is right.

Well, if you actually read the OP, you would not be asking that question.

That makes the rest of your post irrelevant. Go back and read the OP.

About as irrelevant as your original OP with trying to bring in all sorts of un-Biblical ideas to apply to Revelation, including the idea of Mormonism!

YOUR SUPPOSED GUIDELINE FOR REVELATION IS A HUGE JOKE.

 

[Episkopos]

http://biblia.com/books/kjv/Lu6.16Part I - Guidelines for Revelation, today.

Many think that Apostolic Revelation since Jesus' time has continued and therefore this continuiing "revelation" is equal with revelation given the Apostles and Prophets. Is there new revelation given each century through men that is on the same level of authority as Scripture? This is what I want to delve into, in this thread.

Is there any word of man today on the same level of authority as God?

Is revelation continued or completed?

What are the guidelines for the Church, today?

Mormonism has developed by "angelic" revelation.

They say, "IN the BIBLE is contained the Word of God. We believe in the principle of continuous revelation."

This belief opens them to revelation from "angels".

Are there men today that God speaks through as He did with Prophets and Apostles?

The Sanhedrin hadn't given Him authority and wanted to know where He got His authority from?

Jesus said, "From heaven."

Manifested Sons (cult) say "The Word is dead." They raised prophecy to the level of Divine authority. They say that modern day prophets can speak scripture (new scripture) and it is not to be judged. "The Bible is good, but Revelation is better."

Divine Revelation has come through two sources:
1. Prophets
2. Apostles
a. Luke and Jude were approved apostolically.

3. Who is Jude (Greek: Judas)? What evidence is there in verse 1 and 17? The best theory is that Jude was the half-brother of Jesus, since he describes himself in verse 1 (evidence) as the "brother of James" whom we know to be Christ's half-brother (Mt. 13:55; Acts 1:14; 1 Co. 9:5; Gal. 1:19). This Jude (or Judas) is referred to in Mark 6:3. He could not be Judas the apostle (Luke 6:16).

Acts 1:21-23 Apostle
Act 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Act 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

These were the qualifications for appointing a new Apostle to take Judas Iscariot's place.

Apostles had to have an encounter with Christ and to have sat directly under His teachings.

However, and it can only be personal opinion, but I believe God had Paul in mind.
1. He saw the Lord personally
2. His call (1 Cor 15:9) For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
3. Not sent by men. - But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal 1:11-12)


Only 12 Apostles (first 12) sent from God including Paul. Today's apostles are sent from men and do not have the same qualifications or level of authority (establishing "new" revelation).

PAUL
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

There is No man today that has the same level of authority or qualifications of the Apostles.

Prophets and Apostles are on the same level of authority. Prophets received a revelation still in progress while Apostles received the completed revelation.

Does this remind you of anything, today?

Eze 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

Jer 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the (false) prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

Jer 23:26 How long shall this be in the heart of the (false) prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

Two Levels of Authority

1. High level of revelation coming from God / Holy Scriptures
2. Lower level of revelation - That each believer has to understand revelation. How hearts/spirit are enlightened or illuminated to truth, already revealed.

Two Levels of Prophets

1. The OT Prophets speak the Word of God. Authority is inherent with the CALL of GOD. We do not have this authority today. There is the call of God today, but not on men to formulate new scripture or truths outside of the Bible.

2. Lower level of authority today. Prophets speak to edify the Body of Christ. (1 Cor 14:2-3).

Axehead

We must be careful brother when speaking in absolutes. Has God given you the apostolic authority (like the early apostles) to deny that any other apostolic voice (after yours) is false?

 

[dragonfly]

Hi veteran,

I think revelation with a capital r because it was in the title line, could be open to misunderstanding, but hopefully you're clearer now?

There's a major difference between understanding Scripture up to a point where some things are not still clear, vs. a misunderstanding even in the simple parts of Scripture many have today. Those with misunderstanding should be shown their error by those called and given to know, not just allowed to continue to believe their error is right.

I know this is close to your heart, and it's good to know God has put some people on to the case. Although I don't usually attempt to explain the book of the Lord's Revelation to the apostle John, there are many other misunderstandings to deal with.

During research for a reply in The Narrow Way, (Pelaides post which says some people believe when the bridegroom came for the 10 virgins, they were all going to become his wife - and he's serious!) I came across this website, on which it would be interesting to get your thoughts, seeing it uses the Jewish marriage procedure as a template for the end times (as well as explaining very briefly some other symbolism).

http://www.opendoorministrieswv.org/ancientjewishwedding.html Especially from step ten, after the tribulation has been mentioned.

(Compare with http://ohr.edu/1087) In the second link there is no end-time reference at all. It's only about the marriage procedure.)

 

[veteran]

Hi veteran,

I think revelation with a capital r because it was in the title line, could be open to misunderstanding, but hopefully you're clearer now?

Our Lord's Book of Revelation is relevant to this topic, because some here are against the idea that the Book of Revelation is about events all the way to the end of this present world. I don't think I need ot point out who those are here that have that false belief. So maybe you're not seeing that bigger picture here, yet.

I know this is close to your heart, and it's good to know God has put some people on to the case. Although I don't usually attempt to explain the book of the Lord's Revelation to the apostle John, there are many other misunderstandings to deal with.

During research for a reply in The Narrow Way, (Pelaides post which says some people believe when the bridegroom came for the 10 virgins, they were all going to become his wife - and he's serious!) I came across this website, on which it would be interesting to get your thoughts, seeing it uses the Jewish marriage procedure as a template for the end times (as well as explaining very briefly some other symbolism).

http://www.opendoorm...ishwedding.html Especially from step ten, after the tribulation has been mentioned.

(Compare with http://ohr.edu/1087) In the second link there is no end-time reference at all. It's only about the marriage procedure.)

One of their quotes from 'Open Door Ministries':

"We truly believe God is calling the Bride of Christ back to the Jewish roots of
Christianity."

Problem is, Christianity is NOT from any such Jewish roots.

The religion of the Jews is Judaism, a system that only began after Judah's Babylon captivity with the traditions of the Jews from the Babylonian Talmud. That system ADDED to the laws given through Moses which our Lord Jesus and His Apostles rebuked. The orthodox unbelieving Jews aren't even following the original religion handed down through Moses with the Old Covenant. They can't, because God caused the 2nd temple to be destroyed. And under Christ He brought the end for the need of the Levitical priesthood, end of sacrifices, etc.

So the Christian should be well aware of what they're trying to do with attempting to establish the false idea that Christianity originated from "Jewish roots". That's their first step towards a Judaizer attempt to establish authority over Christ's Church, the SAME battle Apostle Paul had to put up with in his day (Galatians 2 about "false brethren unawares brought in").

Nowhere in God's Word are we His Church called His Bride. I'm familiar with the old Israelite wedding tradition, but our Lord Jesus only used us in relation as servants bid to the wedding feast per His parable of the wedding in Matt.22.

The Bride in Scripture is put for the New Jerusalem...

Rev 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
(KJV)

Rev 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
(KJV)

John 3:29
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth Him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
(KJV)


Even John the Baptist showed this difference when he placed himself as "the friend of the bridegroom", our Lord Jesus representing the "bridegroom". The New Jerusalem is the Bride which The Bridegroom has. This is also shown in Isaiah 62 about Jerusalem redeemed. In Ezekiel 16 God married Jerusalem.

However, in 2 Cor.11 Paul pulled from Isaiah 54 about us being a chaste virgin espoused to one Husband (Christ). But a closer study in Isaiah 54 reveals the subject of Jerusalem being spoken about in marriage. Our Lord Jesus referred to us as virgins in His parable of Matt.25, so that's where men's traditions have taken this idea from.

Yet the purpose for the applicatiion of the wedding feast today is a totally different matter, for it is being used to TRY and displace the Scripture ORDER of the end time events. This is why if you'll notice they always try to bring that wedding feast topic in where it has no place in the Scripture.