Ham, Noah's son

[ROS777]

Many Christian churches do not teach the complete word of God, so it's the salvation message over and over and over and do not teach chapter by chapter, verse by verse.Here's a truth: Ham, Noah's son uncovered his Father's nakedness.Do you know what that means?It does not mean that he saw his father naked.It does mean that he had sex with his Father's wife.To check the truth out read: Leviticus 18:8

 

[Christina]

You are so very right Ros thanks for that post on a subject rarely discussed and often misunderstood and misinterpreted

 

[ROS777]

Thank you Kriss. I was brought up in a church that didn't make the Bible understandable; so a lot of people believe that Adam and Eve ate an apple or fig in the garden. They will fight for their belief that the serpent was a snake.There is so much they don't know.... and I'm still learning! Today I studied and learned about the demon possessed man in Luke. It was fantastic!! But then again one has to want to learn, that's the hitch.

 

[Christina]

It is amazing some times how little those that teach either don't know or don't want to teach Gods word in depth.It is more of that feel good doctrine repent and salvation now give me your money doctrines. People are so often just taught the baby milk and never get into the meat of the word. That means for those of you who are not familiar with Hebrew Idioms the easy stuff or the fluff and not the hard or tougher things.Just as Ros so kindly pointed out above with Ham uncovering his fathers nakedness

It does not mean that he saw his father naked.It does mean that he had sex with his Father's wife.

This is a Hebrew idiom.Idioms are figures of speech that mean something different than what the words literally say for instance some English idiom's woulds be "Its raining cats and dogs" "I hit the ceiling" or "He kicked the bucket" none of the above mean what the literal words say.There are hundreds of Idioms in the Greek and Hebrew and many used in the bible but to learn these idioms requires getting into the meat(tougher stuff) of Gods word,and that as you have said requires a desire to learn

 

[kkboldt]

(ROS777;3972)
Many Christian churches do not teach the complete word of God, so it's the salvation message over and over and over and do not teach chapter by chapter, verse by verse.Here's a truth: Ham, Noah's son uncovered his Father's nakedness.Do you know what that means?It does not mean that he saw his father naked.It does mean that he had sex with his Father's wife.To check the truth out read: Leviticus 18:8
Hi, Yes, I believe this to be correct, however, why did Noah curse "Canaan, and not Ham" specifically?Kim

 

[crooner]

Kriss and Roz,What impact do these two different beliefs in the apple or sex with the devil have on salvation or the gospel. is it enough difference to be so divided over? I see good Christians on both sides of this story. What is the end result?

 

[Christina]

(kkboldt;25627)
Hi, Yes, I believe this to be correct, however, why did Noah curse "Canaan, and not Ham" specifically?Kim
Genesis 9:25 "And he said, "Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall be unto his brethren."What did this verse say? He [Noah] said, "cursed be Canaan". It says that Noah said, and not God, for it is Noah doing the talking. This old man was just getting up from an drunken binge, and has an hang-over, when he cursed Canaan, and not Ham. Canaan had just been conceived, and the embryo had just been formed inside Noah's wife. It was the act that Noah cursed.Genesis 9:26 "And he said, "Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant."This is still Noah doing the talking, and not God.

 

[Christina]

(crooner;25628)
Kriss and Roz,What impact do these two different beliefs in the apple or sex with the devil have on salvation or the gospel. is it enough difference to be so divided over? I see good Christians on both sides of this story. What is the end result?
I need more )But No these are not a a matter of Salvation or to be largely divided overThe important thing we agree on here is that Christ came through the Bloodline of Adam and that Satan has always wanted to destroy Christ any way he can. No matter which plan for that destruction you believe isnt that important. The only thing that matters here is we know that Satan will come first pretending to be christ. We need to prepare for whats to come more than be divided over what happened in the past.If you cant make the apple sex thing fit put it on the shelf its not that majorhope that answers your question

 

[crooner]

Thanks KrissI find the sex story fasinating. I have read it and havent come to a definate conclusion.I have always wondered if something was missing, but need to look at all the scripture that is being explained in the Strongs. I enjoy your discussions on the subject enormisly.Crooner

 

[Jon-Marc]

Where in the scripture about Noah and Ham does it actually state that Ham had sex with his mother? I've heard that before, but no one has actually PROVED it. It does say that when Noah awoke and knew what his son had done unto him (Noah) that he cursed Ham's children. That verse does NOT say that Ham had sex with his mother. I can live with that interpretation, but I need proof that it actually happened, and not some opinion about some obscure verse taken out of context from another book and applied to Noah and Ham.

 

[Jordan]

Genesis 9:23 - And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.That's prove that Ham had sex with his mother.For more prove is this...Genesis 9:18 - And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.Genesis 9:22 - And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[Shelli]

(Jon-Marc;25696)
Where in the scripture about Noah and Ham does it actually state that Ham had sex with his mother? I've heard that before, but no one has actually PROVED it. It does say that when Noah awoke and knew what his son had done unto him (Noah) that he cursed Ham's children. That verse does NOT say that Ham had sex with his mother. I can live with that interpretation, but I need proof that it actually happened, and not some opinion about some obscure verse taken out of context from another book and applied to Noah and Ham.
The proof is in the Hebraic idiom.

 

[Christina]

Shelli is right here Jon marc its a figure of speech Hebrew had figures of speech the same as we do in English they are called idioms as Shelli saidIts like today if you like something or its alright with you you might say thats "cool" you do mean its cold "its cool" is a figure of speech

 

[Jon-Marc]

I don't say "cool"; I still say "neat".

None of those verses say that Ham had sex with his mother. I don't read anything but English and sometimes don't do that very well. :study: I also don't read between the lines very well to see what isn't there. We will just have to agree to disagree. :bible:

 

[Christina]

Theres nothing to disagree on Jon it is common knowledge not a point of contentionTo uncover your fathers nakedness literally means to have sex with the fathers wife in this case that would be his motheryou cant disagree with a statement of fact thats why its called an idiom thats what it is