He will punish her idols! ???

[Karl Peters]

Jer 51:52 “Therefore behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD,
“When I will punish her idols,
And the mortally wounded will groan throughout her land.

Can you "punish" a piece of stone that someone picked up and shaped into an idol?

Even if you "punish" a piece of wood that is shaped, decorated, and made into an idol, would that be fair since the piece of wood did not have a choice in the matter?

So what is with the above verse? God is fair is He not? And maybe somehow, perhaps in some way, God could punish a rock or piece of wood that was made into an idol, but even then how could He say he is fair and just?

Or perhaps He was referring to something, or someone else as an idol?

When a man picks up a stone or piece of wood and shapes it into something, then starts to worship what he shaped, why did he do that? Is it not obvious to anyone that a stone of piece of wood, no matter how you shape it or think of it, is still just a stone or piece of wood! So where did that silly thinking come from?

We - an especially Christians - should understand that the Holy Spirit, nor even the angels who serve the Lord are not the only spirits around. Now my Lord does not think like me, and is far smarter than I can even imagine, but that does not me that He does not make sense!! I have never found Him to be that way, even when it does fully make sense to me. If I spend some time with Him, He explains Himself.

So is not the idols, He is going to punish, those evil spirits behind the thinking of the man who makes an idol out of a piece of wood? That is what I am hearing. Which is to say that if we don't pay attention to the Lord our God Jesus Christ, we could wind up getting deceived by any number of evil spirits and not even understand that is happening!

I remember the time when the Lord was talking to me and saying, "Karl, men are not all that smart but they are smarter than animals. So a man would not just hit his hand or head into that wall..." (I was looking at a wall at the time) "..., because the man would know it would hurt him! But men do hit their hands and heads into a wall at times! Who gets them thinking that way?"

It does not make sense to use your hands to make an idol, and it does not make sense to think of it as a god! And that might as well be like hitting you hands and head against a wall, for all the good it will do you. Indeed, it will hurt you because it will keep you from seeking the One True God!

He asked me to cover this, but since this is a "Christian" forum I believe I am supposed to cover the idols of Christians. Even for Christians, anything you make into a god which is not God is an idol!

For example, if you put a little Jesus figurine up and pray to it, you have made it a god - an idol!

Now the fact that you have a little Jesus figurine does not mean you prayed to it and started making it your god, but if you are praying to it, then you are making it your god - your idol!

So don't get me wrong - if a person has a string of beads and that string of beads reminds them to seek the Lord their God but is not thinking the beads are their god so as to speak to them, then I am not saying they made an idol out of them. Still, maybe it is not such a good idea to have your little figurines and beads, because do they not give opportunity to the devil? Still, that is not my choice and I don't mean to say not to have them, though perhaps God would command us not to have them. Do we listen to Him? Then He can cover it with us.

What I am going cover most is the Bible, and it being made into an idol!

One day, while coming back from talking to a pastor at my church, the Lord started saying- "Quad god! Quad god! Quad god!"

I responded to Him by saying, "Lord, what are you telling me?"

He answered by saying, 'Karl, there are those making Me to be Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and the Holy Bible!"

The Scriptures are important to read and study, and indeed the first words I heard from my Lord were, "Read Your Bible", so I do that! Yet I don't pray to the Bible! I don't think the Bible is God talking to me! And so I don't preach the Bible!! So I would never raise the Bible up and say something like, 'I am going to preach the Word', and thereby meaning I was going to preach the Bible!!

The Holy Spirit once told me, "Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Bible. We use the Bible to preach the Lord!"

Another time I was told, "What a person preaches is their god!"

And I can not tell you the number of times I have seen a person from behind the podium saying that they are going to preach the Word, and they meant their Bible!!

Ok - even the best of us blow in the wind at times - meaning we get blow around in our faith by those evil spirits. And we might call them religious spirit if they are making it about the things of our religion, like the Bible, Jesus figures, or some beads, instead of actually making it about Jesus Christ our Lord, the KING OF KINGS who is over the Kingdom of God!

So we can preach the King, Jesus Christ - the Kingdom of God which He rules over so that preaching the Kingdom of God is preaching Him and His rule, and we can preach the gospel (the good news) which is we can personally get to know God through His Son whose name is called "The Word of God" and who is God! And we can use the Bible to do that, but we don't preach the Bible - that paper from wood with ink on it!

Jn 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

That is how the gospel is preached in the gospel of John. That Jesus Christ is the Word, that He came down out of heaven and took on flesh, walked with men, died on the cross for our sins, rose again and sits on the throne of God as King over the Kingdom of God which is in our midst, so that we find the Word of God (Jesus and what He has to say to us) near us, even in our mouths and heart, because His Holy Spirit is sent with His words and we His sheep hear those words of God personally!

Yet notice that the "darkness did not comprehend it!

So does this make sense to you? If you don't understand that we can personally speak to Jesus Christ back and forth, via His Holy Spirit, so that He is really and truly our Lord, but instead think you have to have an 'idol', even a Jesus figurine, set of beads, or the Bible in your hands to hear from Him, then you have an idol!! Which is to say that you have a evil spirit of darkness making you do a silly thing!

 

[Illuminator]

Jer 51:52 “Therefore behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD,
“When I will punish her idols,
And the mortally wounded will groan throughout her land.

Can you "punish" a piece of stone that someone picked up and shaped into an idol?

Even if you "punish" a piece of wood that is shaped, decorated, and made into an idol, would that be fair since the piece of wood did not have a choice in the matter?

So what is with the above verse? God is fair is He not? And maybe somehow, perhaps in some way, God could punish a rock or piece of wood that was made into an idol, but even then how could He say he is fair and just?

Or perhaps He was referring to something, or someone else as an idol?

I'm no theologian, but I think this is a case of anthropomorphism, a 50 cent word that gives human attributes to God because God cannot be described in human terms.

The attribution of human characteristics, emotions, and situations to God. Israel's faith in God found concrete expression in anthropomorphic language. Anthropomorphisms occur in all parts of the OT. God is described as having eyes (Am 9.3; Sir 11.12), ears (Dn 9.18), hands (Is 5.25), and feet (Gn 3.8; Is 63.3). He molds man out of the dust, plants a garden, takes His rest (Gn 2.3, 7–8). He speaks (Gn 1.3; Lv 4.1), listens (Ex 16.12), and closes the door of Noah's ark (Gn 7.16); He even whistles (Is 7.18). Other expressions credit God with human emotions: He laughs (Ps 2.4), rejoices (Zep 3.17), becomes angry (1 Chr 13.10), disgusted (Lv 20.23), regretful (Jer 42.10), and revengeful (Is 1.24). Very frequently He is declared to be a jealous God (Ex 20.5; Dt 5.9).​

​

Such language reflects the Semitic belief that the spiritual and physical realms are not mutually exclusive. The Hebrews, little inclined toward philosophical abstraction, were helped by anthropomorphisms better to understand God's living presence among them.​

Anthropomorphism (in the Bible) | Encyclopedia.com

ANTHROPOMORPHISM (IN THE BIBLE) The attribution of human characteristics, emotions, and situations to God. Israel's faith in God found concrete expression in anthropomorphic language. Anthropomorphisms occur in all parts of the OT. God is described as having eyes (Am 9.3; Sir 11.12), ears (Dn...

www.encyclopedia.com

I don't think punishing idols is literal.

 

[amadeus]

Jer 51:52 “Therefore behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD,
“When I will punish her idols,
And the mortally wounded will groan throughout her land.

Can you "punish" a piece of stone that someone picked up and shaped into an idol?

Even if you "punish" a piece of wood that is shaped, decorated, and made into an idol, would that be fair since the piece of wood did not have a choice in the matter?

So what is with the above verse? God is fair is He not? And maybe somehow, perhaps in some way, God could punish a rock or piece of wood that was made into an idol, but even then how could He say he is fair and just?

Or perhaps He was referring to something, or someone else as an idol?

When a man picks up a stone or piece of wood and shapes it into something, then starts to worship what he shaped, why did he do that? Is it not obvious to anyone that a stone of piece of wood, no matter how you shape it or think of it, is still just a stone or piece of wood! So where did that silly thinking come from?

We - an especially Christians - should understand that the Holy Spirit, nor even the angels who serve the Lord are not the only spirits around. Now my Lord does not think like me, and is far smarter than I can even imagine, but that does not me that He does not make sense!! I have never found Him to be that way, even when it does fully make sense to me. If I spend some time with Him, He explains Himself.

So is not the idols, He is going to punish, those evil spirits behind the thinking of the man who makes an idol out of a piece of wood? That is what I am hearing. Which is to say that if we don't pay attention to the Lord our God Jesus Christ, we could wind up getting deceived by any number of evil spirits and not even understand that is happening!

I remember the time when the Lord was talking to me and saying, "Karl, men are not all that smart but they are smarter than animals. So a man would not just hit his hand or head into that wall..." (I was looking at a wall at the time) "..., because the man would know it would hurt him! But men do hit their hands and heads into a wall at times! Who gets them thinking that way?"

It does not make sense to use your hands to make an idol, and it does not make sense to think of it as a god! And that might as well be like hitting you hands and head against a wall, for all the good it will do you. Indeed, it will hurt you because it will keep you from seeking the One True God!

He asked me to cover this, but since this is a "Christian" forum I believe I am supposed to cover the idols of Christians. Even for Christians, anything you make into a god which is not God is an idol!

For example, if you put a little Jesus figurine up and pray to it, you have made it a god - an idol!

Now the fact that you have a little Jesus figurine does not mean you prayed to it and started making it your god, but if you are praying to it, then you are making it your god - your idol!

So don't get me wrong - if a person has a string of beads and that string of beads reminds them to seek the Lord their God but is not thinking the beads are their god so as to speak to them, then I am not saying they made an idol out of them. Still, maybe it is not such a good idea to have your little figurines and beads, because do they not give opportunity to the devil? Still, that is not my choice and I don't mean to say not to have them, though perhaps God would command us not to have them. Do we listen to Him? Then He can cover it with us.

What I am going cover most is the Bible, and it being made into an idol!

One day, while coming back from talking to a pastor at my church, the Lord started saying- "Quad god! Quad god! Quad god!"

I responded to Him by saying, "Lord, what are you telling me?"

He answered by saying, 'Karl, there are those making Me to be Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and the Holy Bible!"

The Scriptures are important to read and study, and indeed the first words I heard from my Lord were, "Read Your Bible", so I do that! Yet I don't pray to the Bible! I don't think the Bible is God talking to me! And so I don't preach the Bible!! So I would never raise the Bible up and say something like, 'I am going to preach the Word', and thereby meaning I was going to preach the Bible!!

The Holy Spirit once told me, "Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Bible. We use the Bible to preach the Lord!"

Another time I was told, "What a person preaches is their god!"

And I can not tell you the number of times I have seen a person from behind the podium saying that they are going to preach the Word, and they meant their Bible!!

Ok - even the best of us blow in the wind at times - meaning we get blow around in our faith by those evil spirits. And we might call them religious spirit if they are making it about the things of our religion, like the Bible, Jesus figures, or some beads, instead of actually making it about Jesus Christ our Lord, the KING OF KINGS who is over the Kingdom of God!

So we can preach the King, Jesus Christ - the Kingdom of God which He rules over so that preaching the Kingdom of God is preaching Him and His rule, and we can preach the gospel (the good news) which is we can personally get to know God through His Son whose name is called "The Word of God" and who is God! And we can use the Bible to do that, but we don't preach the Bible - that paper from wood with ink on it!

Jn 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

That is how the gospel is preached in the gospel of John. That Jesus Christ is the Word, that He came down out of heaven and took on flesh, walked with men, died on the cross for our sins, rose again and sits on the throne of God as King over the Kingdom of God which is in our midst, so that we find the Word of God (Jesus and what He has to say to us) near us, even in our mouths and heart, because His Holy Spirit is sent with His words and we His sheep hear those words of God personally!

Yet notice that the "darkness did not comprehend it!

So does this make sense to you? If you don't understand that we can personally speak to Jesus Christ back and forth, via His Holy Spirit, so that He is really and truly our Lord, but instead think you have to have an 'idol', even a Jesus figurine, set of beads, or the Bible in your hands to hear from Him, then you have an idol!! Which is to say that you have a evil spirit of darkness making you do a silly thing!

I essentially agree with your words. Remember with them also the case of Nehushtan:

Nu 21:7	Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
Nu 21:8	And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Nu 21:9	And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Then several hundred years later see the actions of King Hezekiah:

2ki 18:3	And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did.
2ki 18:4	He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brazen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

 

[Cassandra]

What I am going cover most is the Bible, and it being made into an idol!

One day, while coming back from talking to a pastor at my church, the Lord started saying- "Quad god! Quad god! Quad god!"

I responded to Him by saying, "Lord, what are you telling me?"

He answered by saying, 'Karl, there are those making Me to be Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and the Holy Bible!"

Quad God? Really?
I have no idea how the Bible could be worshiped. The Words of God and of Christ are preserved within it. So 200 years ago and today, we can read what Christ said.

 

[Karl Peters]

Quad God? Really?
I have no idea how the Bible could be worshiped. The Words of God and of Christ are preserved within it. So 200 years ago and today, we can read what Christ said.

If a person thinks that the Scriptures will give them eternal life, and it making them a god! - an idol!

And that is what Jesus told the Jews they were doing!!

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life

So there were people who gave god like attributes to the Sacred Writings (Scriptures)

Now people get stubborn and they then refuse to consider the obvious - that inanimate object can not perform task the only God can perform - and that is called idolatry.

Yet if someone becomes so stubborn and simply deny the obvious, what spirit are they hearing from?

And since there is nothing new under the sun, we should understand that it is likely to done today. A person could think that their reading the Bible is going to save them. They could think that the reading of the Scriptures is God talking to them, when it is only reading what was written some thousand of years ago.

Now if we have understanding the battle with the dark forces of this world, and the fact that there are more with us than against us, including the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS - then we would understand that demons (those dark evil spiritual forces) would be lying to us, and that the Holy Spirit with the King and the Kingdom of God would not be lying to us but rather explaining to us what is going on around us!

So the devils might talk to us about the Bible and lie. Also our Lord might talk to us about the Bible and not lie!!

And since thinking the Scriptures are God talking to you, is a lie, because they are in fact what those thousands of years ago and wrote down as instructed, for all people to read, and so are not God speaking to you! However God could and does speak, so He might and would be expected to talk to us about the Bible, but not through the Bible but through His Holy Spirit.

So the obvious lie, and obvious making the Bible an idol, comes across by people thinking the reading their Bible is God speaking to them, as opposed to hearing that voice in words that we find in our mouth and heart as where we find God speaking to us.

Therefore, those who lift up a Bible and say that they are going to preach the Word, meaning the Bible, are just like those religious Jews that Jesus spoke to as recorded in John 5. And the person explaining that we find the Word of God we preach near us, in our mouth and hearts, are those who are hearing from the Lord our God Jesus Christ, as the Word of God/Lord, via His Holy Spirit. Which is what those like Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, John all wrote! Did we not read the Scriptures and see what was written?

Go through these verse to realize that not once did any of these Scripture refer to someone reading the Scriptures - but rather they all meant they hear from the Lord via the Holy Spirit! They listened to the Lord, and they did not call the reading of the Scriptures have the Word of the Lord/God speaking to them!! Or a person can just deny the Lord speaking to them and stubbornly reject Him!

Gen 15: 1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying,
Num 15:31 ‘Because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment,
1 Sam 15:10 Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel, saying,
2 Sam 7:4 But in the same night the word of the LORD came to Nathan, saying,
2 Sam 24:11 When David arose in the morning, the word of the LORD came to the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying,
1 Kins 6:11 Now the word of the LORD came to Solomon saying,
1 Kings 3:19 “For so it was commanded me by the word of the LORD, saying, ‘You shall eat no bread, nor drink water, nor return by the way which you came.'”
1 Kings 21:17 Then the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying,
2 Kings 20:4 Before Isaiah had gone out of the middle court, the word of the LORD came to him, saying,

So I go to church and find a different "Word of God" being preached, and that is reading the Bible as opposed to hearing Him come to us saying! Yet they try and tell me they are going by and matching up to the Bible when clearly that is not true!! They are lying, and where did they get those lies?

They don't sound like those men of God who wrote these things:

2 Ch 11:12 But the word of the LORD came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,

Is 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, You rulers of Sodom;
Give ear to the instruction of our God, You people of Gomorrah.

Does the above verse really mean we should "Hear" and "Give ear" or does it mean that we need to read?

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up, But they have revolted against Me.

Obviously, Isaiah meant to actually hear and give ear (not eye) to the Lord, because he explained the Lord speaks!! And also something abut His people revolting against Him! Who are those people? Is it not those who don't hear and give ear, but perhaps are reading the Scriptures thinking in they they have eternal life? Yes it is those people!! They have made an idol out of their Bible, and are so stubborn as to not even be willing to go and reason with the Lord themselves, by listening to Him and hearing from Him!!

And it becomes clear who those people are, doesn't it?

Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.

Obviously, reading the Scriptures is not the same thing as actually reasoning back and forth with Him! That actually are truly requires speaking to Him and also hearing His responses to you!!

Still there were/are a stubborn people, are they not?

Deut 9:13 “The LORD spoke further to me, saying, ‘I have seen this people, and indeed, it is a stubborn people.
Neh 9:16 “But they, our fathers, acted arrogantly; They became stubborn and would not listen to Your commandments.
Is 46:12 “Listen to Me, you stubborn-minded, Who are far from righteousness.
Jer 5:23 ‘But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart; They have turned aside and departed.

Do His people today (Christians) not realize that He still speaks this way today also about them, in general?

He once asked me to go to Ezek 3. and told me to read. And as a read I also heard Him speaking to me saying very similar words, though not exactly, because He personalized them to me. And the words He personalized to me were life the below verse.

Ezek 3:7 yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate.

He told me personally that He was sending me to a people who were not going to be willing to listen to Me, because they were not willing to listen to Him!!! They pretend obedience to Him, but do not listen to Him. So because they do not listen to HIm the Scriptures, those orderly writings, made line upon line, that they read a littel here and there, is the Word of God to them, instead of Him who speaks!! And because of that they stumble, are snared and are taken captive by the dark evil forces of this world - even those religious spirits!

Is 28:23 Give ear and hear my voice, Listen and hear my words.

Is 28: 12,13 He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,” And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen
So the word of the LORD to them will be, “Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,” That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

Yes - they made an idol out of their Bible and became a captive of the demonic spirits!

So I write and write, in hopes they will understand and actually turn to Him and give ear to Him, and listen!! Otherwise hell awaits them!