Hell Fire

[kcnalp]

This is Gehenna. If you go to the old testament and read the passage that Jesus is quoting you'll see that it is on the earth and it is corpses, dead bodies, that are burning, not living souls or spirits.

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.1
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. (Isa. 66:22-24 KJV)

As you can see, it is carcases or dead bodies that are burning.

JW?

 

[Renniks]

To get Forgiveness , “ Turn to God( repent ) with Faith in Jesus Christ “ I have done that. Trump has not. He calls God a Liar......
God says, “ ALL have sinned and fallen short”.........Trump says he has never done anything That would make him obligated to ask forgiveness for....
Folks, you don’t got any more LOST than a person that fails to see and admit that they are Lost and need a Savior ....Christianity 101.
Now that we are getting close to the day where this Orange Stain will be ejected from an office he was never Fit for, I notice he sprinkles the word “ God” in there every now and then in his speeches to placate and fool a naive “ church world” . You ever notice he never talks about Jesus, though? There is good reason for that .Jesus is not IN Him.....Trump is a Cruel man who possesses a Black Heart... Christianity BEGINS when the Holy Spirit gives you a New, CONTRITE Heart That reveals to you that you are a Wretched , Lost Sinner That MUST have a Savior to get to Heaven..Trump thinks Christianity is “ Bull ****” and proves it with His evil “ Fruit” every day.....
Never forget that Fidel Castro claimed to be a “ Christian” also.....he is in Hell today ,of course . Trump will be joining ol’ Fidel unless God “ opens his heart “ so that trump will hear and Believe the Gospel and ask Gid to save him......no signs of that happening yet....regardless of how many times he poses in front of a church with an upside- down Bible......truly a “ CringeWorthy” moment....

How does a thread about hell get turned into just another Trump thread?
I don't claim to know whose going to hell, because I'm not God...

 

[Getitright]

I think that it is the Eternal Lake of Fire, and Jesus' continuous usage of the phrase 'eternal punishment' that compels most exegetes to accept the doctrine of eternal condemnation. I think that you created a false predicate by asserting that it is the word aion, that most have derived the principle of hell from. Hades and Sheol, to me, are the grave, the place where the physically dead await for Judgement Day. They are asleep and not animated, dormant. It is ghenna that denotes hell, which is the realm of eternal punishment (mental and self-inflicted, no flames),

I didn't say the doctrine was derived from the word aion. I said it came from Greek philosophy. However, when one believes that the wicked will burn forever, and they see the word aion tied to this burning they define aion as forever. According to Jesus the aion will end, thus it cannot mean forever. I agree that Hades and sheole are the grave. You say the physically dead are in Hades or sheole. I agree that the dead go there. However, I'm not sure what you believe happens at that point. You say they await judgment day. What is the state of their being.

I believe that when one dies they return to the dust as God said. They are dead. Their breath returns to God and the body returns to dust. They cease to exist until the Resurrection.

 

[kcnalp]

I didn't say the doctrine was derived from the word aion. I said it came from Greek philosophy. However, when one believes that the wicked will burn forever, and they see the word aion tied to this burning they define aion as forever. According to Jesus the aion will end, thus it cannot mean forever. I agree that Hades and sheole are the grave. You say the physically dead are in Hades or sheole. I agree that the dead go there. However, I'm not sure what you believe happens at that point. You say they await judgment day. What is the state of their being.

I believe that when one dies they return to the dust as God said. They are dead. Their breath returns to God and the body returns to dust. They cease to exist until the Resurrection.

They cease to exist?

 

[Getitright]

It sure isn't physical death. So it must be spiritual death.
t
Same here.

Luke 15:24 (NKJV)
24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'

You're assuming that spiritual death is a thing without proving it. It's a metaphor, a figure of speech. Paul uses this metaphor a lot.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
(Rom. 7:8-11 KJV)

Here Paul talks about being alive before he knew the Law, but when the Law came sin slew him. He surely didn't die literally because he wrote the letter. Surely he wasn't spiritually alive and then spiritually dead, and the was spiritually alive again. Surely sin didn't kill him. NO, it's a metaphor, a figure of speech. He just means that when he understood the Law he became aware of sin and came under the condemnation of the Law

 

[Getitright]

JW?

no, Christian who does serious study of the Scriptures, but that's irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[kcnalp]

You're assuming that spiritual death is a thing without proving it. It's a metaphor, a figure of speech. Paul uses this metaphor a lot.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
(Rom. 7:8-11 KJV)

Here Paul talks about being alive before he knew the Law, but when the Law came sin slew him. He surely didn't die literally because he wrote the letter. Surely he wasn't spiritually alive and then spiritually dead, and the was spiritually alive again. Surely sin didn't kill him. NO, it's a metaphor, a figure of speech. He just means that when he understood the Law he became aware of sin and came under the condemnation of the Law

It's a Biblical doctrine. Sinners are dead but still alive.

Genesis 2:17 (NKJV)
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Well they didn't die physically, the died spiritually.

 

[Getitright]

They cease to exist?

Yes, they cease to exist until the Resurrection. It's pretty clear in Scripture if we just let the Scriptures speak. Gen 2:7 tells us what a man is.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

God formed the man from the dust of the earth. So we know what a man consists of. Then God breathed His breath or spirit of life into the man and a transformation took place. The man became a living soul. This shows us that a living soul consists of the man and the breath or spirit of life from God. We're told that when a man dies, the breath or spirit of life from God returns to God and the man returns to the dust.

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (Eccl. 12:7 KJV)

In the garden God told Adam he was dust and to dust he would return.

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen. 3:19 KJV)

Man returns to the dust until the resurrection when God will once again put His breath or spirit of life into the man and he will live again.

 

[kcnalp]

Yes, they cease to exist until the Resurrection. It's pretty clear in Scripture if we just let the Scriptures speak. Gen 2:7 tells us what a man is.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

God formed the man from the dust of the earth. So we know what a man consists of. Then God breathed His breath or spirit of life into the man and a transformation took place. The man became a living soul. This shows us that a living soul consists of the man and the breath or spirit of life from God. We're told that when a man dies, the breath or spirit of life from God returns to God and the man returns to the dust.

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (Eccl. 12:7 KJV)

In the garden God told Adam he was dust and to dust he would return.

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen. 3:19 KJV)

Man returns to the dust until the resurrection when God will once again put His breath or spirit of life into the man and he will live again.

The rich man died but was very much alive.

being in torments
he cried
I am tormented in this flame
you are tormented

Luke 16:22-26 (NKJV)
22 The rich man also died and was buried.
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

 

[Getitright]

It's a Biblical doctrine. Sinners are dead but still alive.

Genesis 2:17 (NKJV)
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Well they didn't die physically, the died spiritually.

It's not a Biblical doctrine. It's an assumed doctrine. The other passage you posted and this one say nothing about a spiritual death. You're simply imposing that on the text. Like this passage, I suppose your argument is that since Adam didn't die in that 24 hour period it must mean that he died some other way. Thus spiritual death. However, maybe there's another understanding, one that fits with the Scriptures. In the Bible a prophetic day is 1000 years. David said,

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.1 (Ps. 90:4 KJV)

Peter, when responding to the question of Christ's delay alluded to this passage when he said,

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Pet. 3:8 KJV)

A day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and God told Adam he would die in the day he ate from the tree. Adam lived 970 years, thus he died in the day he ate from the tree.

This is both the ancient Jewish and early Christian understanding of this passage.

Ancient Jewish understanding. Book of Jubilees

29. And at the close of the nineteenth jubilee, in the seventh week in the sixth year thereof, Adam died, and all
his sons buried him in the land of his creation, 8 and he was the first to be buried 9 in the earth. 30. And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony
p. 56
of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day that ye eat thereof ye will die." 1 For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.

Early Christian understanding. Irenaeus, Against Hereies, Book 5, Chapter 23.

For by summing up in Himself the whole human race from the beginning to the end, He has also summed up its death. From this it is clear that the Lord suffered death, in obedience to His Father, upon that day on which Adam died while he disobeyed God. Now he died on the same day in which he did eat. For God said, “In that day on which ye shall eat of it, ye shall die by death.” The Lord, therefore, recapitulating in Himself this day, underwent His sufferings upon the day preceding the Sabbath, that is, the sixth day of the creation, on which day man was created; thus granting him a second creation by means of His passion, which is that [creation] out of death. And there are some, again, who relegate the death of Adam to the thousandth year; for since “a day of the Lord is as a thousand years,” he did not overstep the thousand years, but died within them, thus bearing out the sentence of his sin. Whether, therefore, with respect to disobedience, which is death; whether [we consider] that, on account of that, they were delivered over to death, and made debtors to it; whether with respect to [the fact that on] one and the same day on which they ate they also died (for it is one day of the creation); whether [we regard this point], that, with respect to this cycle of days, they died on the day in which they did also eat, that is, the day of the preparation, which is termed “the pure supper,” that is, the sixth day of the feast, which the Lord also exhibited when He suffered on that day; or whether [we reflect] that he (Adam) did not overstep the thousand years, but died within their limit, — it follows that, in regard to all these significations, God is indeed true. For they died who tasted of the tree; and the serpent is proved a liar and a murderer, as the Lord said of him: “For he is a murderer from the beginning, and the truth is not in him.”[
Early Church Fathers - – Ante-Nicene Fathers: The Writings of the Fathers Down To A.D. 325.

As you can see, we have a perfectly logical and Biblical interpretation that doesn't impose on the text

 

[DNB]

So, what's wrong? I can back it all up with Scripture.

My point was your impetuousness to condemn those who don't agree with you.
Claiming that their views will send them to hell. This whole forum is to assess each other's view and decide what is orthodox or heterodoxy. You put forth you argument, as we all do, but you jump to the radical conclusion without warrant.

 

[DNB]

I didn't say the doctrine was derived from the word aion. I said it came from Greek philosophy. However, when one believes that the wicked will burn forever, and they see the word aion tied to this burning they define aion as forever. According to Jesus the aion will end, thus it cannot mean forever. I agree that Hades and sheole are the grave. You say the physically dead are in Hades or sheole. I agree that the dead go there. However, I'm not sure what you believe happens at that point. You say they await judgment day. What is the state of their being.

I believe that when one dies they return to the dust as God said. They are dead. Their breath returns to God and the body returns to dust. They cease to exist until the Resurrection.

I believe, like yourself, dust to dust ashes to ashes upon physical death (or the time it takes to decompose). But the spirit persists in a dormant state, asleep is the common Biblical term or euphemism, that is most analogous to the ontological state of those who await Judgement Day.
But, eternality is referring to post-resurrection. I believe that both the saved and unsaved will exist eternally after Judgement day. One will enter the Kingdom of Christ, the other will be sent to hell, ghenna, Lake of Fire, ...or call it what you like.

 

[Getitright]

The rich man died but was very much alive.

being in torments
he cried
I am tormented in this flame
you are tormented

Luke 16:22-26 (NKJV)
22 The rich man also died and was buried.
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

This is a parable, and it's not about life after death. It's judgment against the leadership of Israel. Remember the parable of the vine dressers? In that parable Jesus described the Jewish leadership and they perceived that He spoke of them. This parable is the same. Take note of the details. Notice the Rich Man is dressed in purple and fine linen, he fared sumptuously, he had 5 brothers. The Levitical priesthood wore purple and fine linen and they fared sumptuously. Levi, the head of the tribe of Levi, from which the Levitical priesthood came, had 5 brothers.

The Rich Man was Jew and expected that his birth as the seed of Abraham would gain him access to the kingdom of God. However, what we see in this parable is not the Rich Man being embraced by Abraham, but Lazarus. The word Lazarus is the Greek form of the Hebrew Eleazor. El-eazor means God help. Here is a quote from Isaiah, who do you suppose this is referring to?

5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.
6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.(Isa. 50:5-7 KJV)

Consider the details of the parable.

The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is also a judgment of the priesthood and their destruction. Who was Jesus talking to? The Pharisees. The Rich Man was a Jew. The priesthood was Jewish. The Rich Man had five brothers. Levi, the tribe of the priesthood, had five brothers. The Rich Man was dressed in purple and fine linen. The priesthood ruled over Israel as both king and priest and wore purple and fine linen. The Rich Man fared sumptuously. The priesthood fared sumptuously.

What about Lazarus? Lazarus is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Eleazar which means, God help. God helped Jesus. Lazarus had come to the Rich Man, a Jew. Jesus had come to the Jews. Lazarus was covered in sores. At the cross Jesus was covered in sores. The dogs licked Lazarus' sores. Lazarus was rejected by the Rich Man but accepted by the dogs. The Jews referred to the Gentiles as dogs. Jesus was rejected by the Jews but accepted by the Gentiles. Lazarus was carried away by angels. Jesus was carried away by angles. Lazarus was carried to his father Abraham. Jesus was carried to His father God. Lazarus was embraced by Abraham. Jesus was embraced by God. Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom. Is Abraham's bosom a place located down in the earth? There is nothing in Scripture to suggest any such thing. Abraham's bosom is mentioned elsewhere in Scripture though. Hagar was in Abraham's bosom, and she was alive, not dead.

And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. (Gen. 16:5 KJV)

Hagar was in an intimate relationship with Abram. From this we see that being in Abraham's bosom means to be in a close relationship with Abraham. Lazarus was in the bosom of his father. Jesus was in the bosom of His father.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (Jn. 1:18 KJV)


The Rich Man wanted Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers, that they would believe if one came from the dead. Abraham said no. He wouldn't send Lazarus back to the Jews. When Jesus resurrected He wouldn't show Himself to the Jews.

 

[kcnalp]

It's not a Biblical doctrine. It's an assumed doctrine. The other passage you posted and this one say nothing about a spiritual death. You're simply imposing that on the text. Like this passage, I suppose your argument is that since Adam didn't die in that 24 hour period it must mean that he dies some other way. Thus spiritual death. However, maybe there's another understanding, one that fits with the Scriptures. In the Bible a prophetic day is 1000 years. David said,

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.1 (Ps. 90:4 KJV)

Peter, when responding to the question of Christ's delay alluded to this passage when he said,

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Pet. 3:8 KJV)

A day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and God told Adam he would die in the day he ate from the tree. Adam lived 970 years, thus he died in the day he ate from the tree.

This is both the ancient Jewish and early Christian understanding of this passage.

Ancient Jewish understanding. Book of Jubilees

29. And at the close of the nineteenth jubilee, in the seventh week in the sixth year thereof, Adam died, and all
his sons buried him in the land of his creation, 8 and he was the first to be buried 9 in the earth. 30. And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony
p. 56
of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day that ye eat thereof ye will die." 1 For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.

Early Christian understanding. Irenaeus, Against Hereies, Book 5, Chapter 23.

For by summing up in Himself the whole human race from the beginning to the end, He has also summed up its death. From this it is clear that the Lord suffered death, in obedience to His Father, upon that day on which Adam died while he disobeyed God. Now he died on the same day in which he did eat. For God said, “In that day on which ye shall eat of it, ye shall die by death.” The Lord, therefore, recapitulating in Himself this day, underwent His sufferings upon the day preceding the Sabbath, that is, the sixth day of the creation, on which day man was created; thus granting him a second creation by means of His passion, which is that [creation] out of death. And there are some, again, who relegate the death of Adam to the thousandth year; for since “a day of the Lord is as a thousand years,” he did not overstep the thousand years, but died within them, thus bearing out the sentence of his sin. Whether, therefore, with respect to disobedience, which is death; whether [we consider] that, on account of that, they were delivered over to death, and made debtors to it; whether with respect to [the fact that on] one and the same day on which they ate they also died (for it is one day of the creation); whether [we regard this point], that, with respect to this cycle of days, they died on the day in which they did also eat, that is, the day of the preparation, which is termed “the pure supper,” that is, the sixth day of the feast, which the Lord also exhibited when He suffered on that day; or whether [we reflect] that he (Adam) did not overstep the thousand years, but died within their limit, — it follows that, in regard to all these significations, God is indeed true. For they died who tasted of the tree; and the serpent is proved a liar and a murderer, as the Lord said of him: “For he is a murderer from the beginning, and the truth is not in him.”[
Early Church Fathers - – Ante-Nicene Fathers: The Writings of the Fathers Down To A.D. 325.

As you can see, we have a perfectly logical and Biblical interpretation that doesn't impose on the text

Genesis 2:17 (NKJV)
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

Did they die the day they ate? Of course. God didn't lie. They were alive but dead. Just like the "second death" in Revelation. Death does not mean cease to exist.
Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I don't care if it's called "spiritual death" or not. Sinners are dead and alive.

 

[kcnalp]

My point was your impetuousness to condemn those who don't agree with you.
Claiming that their views will send them to hell. This whole forum is to assess each other's view and decide what is orthodox or heterodoxy. You put forth you argument, as we all do, but you jump to the radical conclusion without warrant.

You don't give examples of what they said and what I said because you have zero proof. Just your opinions.

 

[kcnalp]

This is a parable, and it's not about life after death. It's judgment against the leadership of Israel. Remember the parable of the vine dressers? In that parable Jesus described the Jewish leadership and they perceived that He spoke of them. This parable is the same. Take note of the details. Notice the Rich Man is dressed in purple and fine linen, he fared sumptuously, he had 5 brothers. The Levitical priesthood wore purple and fine linen and they fared sumptuously. Levi, the head of the tribe of Levi, from which the Levitical priesthood came, had 5 brothers.

The Rich Man was Jew and expected that his birth as the seed of Abraham would gain him access to the kingdom of God. However, what we see in this parable is not the Rich Man being embraced by Abraham, but Lazarus. The word Lazarus is the Greek form of the Hebrew Eleazor. El-eazor means God help. Here is a quote from Isaiah, who do you suppose this is referring to?

5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.
6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.(Isa. 50:5-7 KJV)

Consider the details of the parable.

The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is also a judgment of the priesthood and their destruction. Who was Jesus talking to? The Pharisees. The Rich Man was a Jew. The priesthood was Jewish. The Rich Man had five brothers. Levi, the tribe of the priesthood, had five brothers. The Rich Man was dressed in purple and fine linen. The priesthood ruled over Israel as both king and priest and wore purple and fine linen. The Rich Man fared sumptuously. The priesthood fared sumptuously.

What about Lazarus? Lazarus is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Eleazar which means, God help. God helped Jesus. Lazarus had come to the Rich Man, a Jew. Jesus had come to the Jews. Lazarus was covered in sores. At the cross Jesus was covered in sores. The dogs licked Lazarus' sores. Lazarus was rejected by the Rich Man but accepted by the dogs. The Jews referred to the Gentiles as dogs. Jesus was rejected by the Jews but accepted by the Gentiles. Lazarus was carried away by angels. Jesus was carried away by angles. Lazarus was carried to his father Abraham. Jesus was carried to His father God. Lazarus was embraced by Abraham. Jesus was embraced by God. Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom. Is Abraham's bosom a place located down in the earth? There is nothing in Scripture to suggest any such thing. Abraham's bosom is mentioned elsewhere in Scripture though. Hagar was in Abraham's bosom, and she was alive, not dead.

And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. (Gen. 16:5 KJV)

Hagar was in an intimate relationship with Abram. From this we see that being in Abraham's bosom means to be in a close relationship with Abraham. Lazarus was in the bosom of his father. Jesus was in the bosom of His father.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (Jn. 1:18 KJV)


The Rich Man wanted Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers, that they would believe if one came from the dead. Abraham said no. He wouldn't send Lazarus back to the Jews. When Jesus resurrected He wouldn't show Himself to the Jews.

It's not a parable. It's about real people who lived. You do err.

 

[Getitright]

I believe, like yourself, dust to dust ashes to ashes upon physical death (or the time it takes to decompose). But the spirit persists in a dormant state, asleep is the common Biblical term or euphemism, that is most analogous to the ontological state of those who await Judgement Day.
But, eternality is referring to post-resurrection. I believe that both the saved and unsaved will exist eternally after Judgement day. One will enter the Kingdom of Christ, the other will be sent to hell, ghenna, Lake of Fire, ...or call it what you like.

I believe that the breath or spirit is not man but rather is something of God Himself. This breath or spirit returns to God. I don't see anything in Scripture about a human spirit. From what I see in Genesis man is literally dust that is animated by the breath or spirit (same word) of God. This breath or spirit is what gives man life and any abilities that he has. Scripture tells us that it is God's breath or spirit that gives us understanding. We are told that we live as long as the breath or spirit of God is in us. As an analogy, I use a computer. You can build a great computer but it does nothing until you supply electricity to it. The electricity is not part of the computer but it will animate it. Likewise, man is the computer. Like the computer needs the electricity to come alive man needs the breath or spirit of God to come alive. This is why I say the man ceases to exist when God's breath or spirit returns to Him. The only thing left is the body that returns to dust.

 

[Getitright]

It's not a parable. It's about real people who lived. You do err.

No it's not. I asked you earlier and you didn't answer. Have you ever seen dead people conversing?

 

[kcnalp]

No it's not. I asked you earlier and you didn't answer. Have you ever seen dead people conversing?

You never read about Abraham, Moses and Lazarus in the Bible? They are real people. Are you denying eternal punishment in fire? Well no, I haven't seen dead people conversing. I haven't been there. Have you?

 

[Getitright]

Genesis 2:17 (NKJV)
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

Did they die the day they ate? Of course. God didn't lie. They were alive but dead. Just like the "second death" in Revelation. Death does not mean cease to exist.
Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I don't care if it's called "spiritual death" or not. Sinners are dead and alive.

Sorry, you don't get to make up your own definitions. Death means the cessation of life. Here is Webster's definition.

a permanent cessation of all vital (see VITAL sense 2a) functions : the end of life

No one is alive but dead in a literal sense. That is only possible figuratively, such a metaphor. To be alive and dead literally at the same time is a logical contradiction and not possible. A basic Law of logic states that two opposing things cannot both be true at the same time. Thus someone who is said to be dead, is dead, unless is it used in a metaphorical sense.

You know, one of the most troubling things I find is how Christians will redefine words to fit what they believe rather than changing what they believe to fit what is stated.