JesusIsFaithful
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- Feb 24, 2015
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I did mention it was Hiram in my opening post, but was just shortening the phrasing. In my ESV bible it says "king of Tyre," not Hiram, so in any case, I get what you're saying. As far as the fallen angel, I was only speaking of Hiram (king of Tyre). Was he not a fallen angel that was cast out of God's place and burned to ashes?
Fallen angels cannot die. They were never in a terrestrial state to die in. The second death is an eternal death in the lake of fire and so in that sense, they do not really die there in their fallen celestial state either.
Speaking of kings, what actually happened to king David? Some things I've looked up in the bible about him are confusing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Peter or one of the other apostles write that king David did not ascend into heaven? However, there seems to be some controversy from what I've looked up about whether anyone gets immediately gets judged and goes to heaven upon death. I was reading some passages that suggest there is sort of an intermediate area called Abraham's Busom or something, I haven't memorized many things yet, so could it be that David was sent there because he would be forgiven?
1 Samuel 28th chapter at this link shows where the O.T. saints were waiting as Jesus describes it as Abraham's bosom in a parable and yet on teh cross, He addressed it as Paradise where He would meet one of the thieves there that day. The reference at that link has King Saul sinning against God by asking a medium to call up the spirit of the prophet Saul from beneath the earth.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+28&version=KJV
So Abraham's bosom as being across that great chasm or gulf from hell was beneath the earth, but after His resurrection, in leading the captivity captive, Paradise is in the third Heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
I believe Paul was referring to the apostle John from the event which he had written the Book of Revelations from as led by the Lord to do.
I understand that, and pardon me for the term "mis-translation," but from what I've read, it's only used in the King James version which uses it. I read it was translated with a Latin term that fit closest to the Hebrew word, so apparently wasn't the best choice of words to use. That's all I know, but like I said, I'm saying nothing here with any authority or qualification. Just mentioned it to convey that in researching this subject, it seems that people who are supposed to be highly knowledgeable theologians seem to have their own spin on things which further confuses the subject.
Just sharing what I believe why Lucifer was added was to clarify the morning star as written in that verse.
Yes, the Garden of Eden was another interesting aspect of Ezekiel that I mentioned. First of all, it seems it must not have been destroyed by the great flood because wasn't Noah's era like 2000 years before Hiram I? If Adam and Even were kicked out, then later on Hiram kicked out, then who still dwells in the Garden of Eden with God? It would seem that the Garden of Eden still exists, or is there somewhere in the bible that says it's no more? If the flood wiped out all living things, then that wouldn't mean that it would have wiped out Eden because after Adam and Eve, only God and angels could be there correct?
I believe it was a reference to metaphorically show the closeness of God with Hiram in the post flood world with the earlier time as it was in the Garden of Eden with God in walking with Adam and Eve. I do not believe it was meant to convey that Hiram was there in Eden, but how close God was with Hiram until iniquity was found in him.