Also repeated in Mark 13:14.My Bible (TEV), has in brackets at the end of the verse "Note to the reader: understand what this means!)Okay I'm scared because I don't know what this means. Any help amoung the "enlightened" out there?
Help with Mathew 24:15 (The Aweful Horror)
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(EGR;36699)
Also repeated in Mark 13:14.My Bible (TEV), has in brackets at the end of the verse "Note to the reader: understand what this means!)Okay I'm scared because I don't know what this means. Any help amoung the "enlightened" out there?
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:The abomination is the anti-christ...Satan. The word "anti-christ" was mistranslated and should be "instead of christ," for that is what he will be. He is coming instead of Christ but few are being taught that fact. Instead they believe he will come to terrorize the world. He comes in peacefully and prosperously in the role of Christ and the world will believe him. When they do then they will have taken the mark of the beast which just means to believe his deceit.
He is the abomination standing in the place of Christ (where it ought not) and when that happens his (Satan's) tribulation has begun. Most won't know it is a tribulation at all but .........believe him not. In other words...Let the reader understand. We MUST understand that the fake comes first. You MUST NOT take the mark of the beast! :naughty:......Whirlwind
Also repeated in Mark 13:14.My Bible (TEV), has in brackets at the end of the verse "Note to the reader: understand what this means!)Okay I'm scared because I don't know what this means. Any help amoung the "enlightened" out there?
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:The abomination is the anti-christ...Satan. The word "anti-christ" was mistranslated and should be "instead of christ," for that is what he will be. He is coming instead of Christ but few are being taught that fact. Instead they believe he will come to terrorize the world. He comes in peacefully and prosperously in the role of Christ and the world will believe him. When they do then they will have taken the mark of the beast which just means to believe his deceit.
Whirlwind is exactly right Daniel wrote of this Abomination of Desolation it takes place at the mid point of Satan's tribulation period it will be Antichist(instead of Christ standing in the holy of holies declaring himself to be god. Anichrist comes in the 5th/6th trump of Rev. The True Christ will not return until the 7th trump. Antichrist comes first just as Whirlwind has said
"whirlwind" pretty much covered it but I want to add something."he" in Dan.9:27 is the little horn or SatanDan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Note the word "overspreading" Dan.9:27, this means (wings of deceit).Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)Note the word "see" Matt.24:15, it means (actual perception).The reason I bring this to your attention is because I preceive the wings of deceit now. Satan is not here yet but his spirit is.I was curious as to why you said "The Aweful Horror"?Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. heed G991 blepō (blep'-o) A primary verb; to look at (literally or figuratively): - behold, beware, lie, look (on, to), perceive, regard, see, sight, take heed. Compare G3700.
Jesus said a generation would not pass until this desolation would come to pass. Jerusalem was totally destroyed about 40 years later, just as he said. Tradition says the Jewish Christians fled to the hills and not a single Christian died. And on Mt Zion (in Jerusalem) only a few buildings are left standing, one a small Church that tradition has contains the same room where Jesus first gave Himself to His Disciples and where they later gathered and the Spirit came upon them.
Well, if the evil one comes in my time. Imma goin to get my sword. I dont care if i get killed trying to take the piece of crap out. I HATE SATAN, (oh please lord let me beat the crap out of him or get a few whacks in). Ok im calm now, I just really really hate satan with a passion. The piece of crap keeps ruining God and Christ's perfect world.
Thanks everyone. I'm new to the sriptures, so I appreciate the insights. Good words of warning hey? Wayne, I used the terms "Aweful Horror" as that is exactly the way it is in my Bible (T.E.V.). The section is also Titled "The Aweful Horror"
(kentots;36858)
Well, if the evil one comes in my time. Imma goin to get my sword. I dont care if i get killed trying to take the piece of crap out. I HATE SATAN, (oh please lord let me beat the crap out of him or get a few whacks in). Ok im calm now, I just really really hate satan with a passion. The piece of crap keeps ruining God and Christ's perfect world.
Aha, I say these things as well, because we ALL should indeed hate Satan with a passion. But I say this for a different reason...Anyway, we won't know him by his look, because angels does indeed look like a man, but we shall know him by when.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
Well, if the evil one comes in my time. Imma goin to get my sword. I dont care if i get killed trying to take the piece of crap out. I HATE SATAN, (oh please lord let me beat the crap out of him or get a few whacks in). Ok im calm now, I just really really hate satan with a passion. The piece of crap keeps ruining God and Christ's perfect world.
Aha, I say these things as well, because we ALL should indeed hate Satan with a passion. But I say this for a different reason...Anyway, we won't know him by his look, because angels does indeed look like a man, but we shall know him by when.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
(DrBubbaLove;36854)
Jesus said a generation would not pass until this desolation would come to pass. Jerusalem was totally destroyed about 40 years later, just as he said. Tradition says the Jewish Christians fled to the hills and not a single Christian died. And on Mt Zion (in Jerusalem) only a few buildings are left standing, one a small Church that tradition has contains the same room where Jesus first gave Himself to His Disciples and where they later gathered and the Spirit came upon them.
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Christ said;There shall not be left here one stone upon another, yet you say this happened in (70 A.D.). Then you quote traditions of men.Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Christ said;Now learn the parable of the fig tree, and I suggest you do so.
Jesus said a generation would not pass until this desolation would come to pass. Jerusalem was totally destroyed about 40 years later, just as he said. Tradition says the Jewish Christians fled to the hills and not a single Christian died. And on Mt Zion (in Jerusalem) only a few buildings are left standing, one a small Church that tradition has contains the same room where Jesus first gave Himself to His Disciples and where they later gathered and the Spirit came upon them.
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. Christ said;There shall not be left here one stone upon another, yet you say this happened in (70 A.D.). Then you quote traditions of men.Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Christ said;Now learn the parable of the fig tree, and I suggest you do so.
Thanks Wayne for your concern,Am not sure how ALL of the temple and most all of the city and all inhabitants being utterly and completely destroyed does not fulfill a prophecy which only mentions the temple and it's buildings. My reference is actually a first century secular source that mentions a Roman general I think it, observing the destruction of the city and noting they were standing near a few small buildings and a small Church (Christian implied) adding that it "allegedly" contained the room in question. There is no question even from that account that ALL of the temple (and most of the city) is utterly destroyed (with much blood).In any case and regardless if one believes this account, whether or not there were any surviving structures any where in the city does not invalidate or validate the prediction. What did happen to the temple and is recorded in this same account mentioning the "room" does validate the prophecy.Before we can comment on the validity of a historical account or in traditions, we should first consider what it says and what it does not say. Also when someone says "tradition" rather than "fact" it generally means something which is believed to be true but we cannot empirically prove it today.BTW, The same Church is again mentioned in the second century as surviving after Rome destroys the city a second time. That God would protect the room where Jesus first offered Himself to man seems fitting to me, as does the idea that Christians living in the city at the time were also protected. If it seems right to you not to believe this tradition, we cannot argue against it but also could not understand why it would seem wrong for these things to be believed true.My point was there are many ways of looking of these scriptures/prophecies that do not have every word applying to events in our future or needing our understanding as having every word to apply to something in our future. Some of it may indeed ALSO apply to future events, but in that regard a better lesson for me and applicable to my life RIGHT NOW is knowing that God is patient, but eventually will remove/allow us to fall fully into our desires (sin) and the result can be our utter destruction. And from the tradition that not a single Christian life was lost in that destruction that Israel called upon themselves, we can also know that God is faithful to those who turn to Him.
(DrBubbaLove;36968)
Thanks Wayne for your concern,Am not sure how ALL of the temple and most all of the city and all inhabitants being utterly and completely destroyed does not fulfill a prophecy which only mentions the temple and it's buildings.
I guess one that relies on man's wisdom would not have eyes that see or ears that hear.Learn the parable of the fig tree, or don't.
Thanks Wayne for your concern,Am not sure how ALL of the temple and most all of the city and all inhabitants being utterly and completely destroyed does not fulfill a prophecy which only mentions the temple and it's buildings.
I guess one that relies on man's wisdom would not have eyes that see or ears that hear.Learn the parable of the fig tree, or don't.
(Wayne Murray;37001)
I guess one that relies on man's wisdom would not have eyes that see or ears that hear.Learn the parable of the fig tree, or don't.
So you are suggesting that my saying the tradition that all the Christians in the city that fled to the hills before the city was destroyed is somehow an indication that they did not see or understand the prophecies of what was about to happen and that they just happened to have all fled to the hills as Daniel suggested just by coincidence and were all saved. That is an odd way of looking at this tradition Wayne. Signs from prophecy are meant for people to read. Giving an example of people reading them and then taking heed should not be seen as example of someone not seeing or hearing. Actually quite the opposite.
I guess one that relies on man's wisdom would not have eyes that see or ears that hear.Learn the parable of the fig tree, or don't.
So you are suggesting that my saying the tradition that all the Christians in the city that fled to the hills before the city was destroyed is somehow an indication that they did not see or understand the prophecies of what was about to happen and that they just happened to have all fled to the hills as Daniel suggested just by coincidence and were all saved. That is an odd way of looking at this tradition Wayne. Signs from prophecy are meant for people to read. Giving an example of people reading them and then taking heed should not be seen as example of someone not seeing or hearing. Actually quite the opposite.
(DrBubbaLove;37012)
So you are suggesting that my saying the tradition that all the Christians in the city that fled to the hills before the city was destroyed is somehow an indication that they did not see or understand the prophecies of what was about to happen and that they just happened to have all fled to the hills as Daniel suggested just by coincidence and were all saved. That is an odd way of looking at this tradition Wayne. Signs from prophecy are meant for people to read. Giving an example of people reading them and then taking heed should not be seen as example of someone not seeing or hearing. Actually quite the opposite.
You can read it for yourself.Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
So you are suggesting that my saying the tradition that all the Christians in the city that fled to the hills before the city was destroyed is somehow an indication that they did not see or understand the prophecies of what was about to happen and that they just happened to have all fled to the hills as Daniel suggested just by coincidence and were all saved. That is an odd way of looking at this tradition Wayne. Signs from prophecy are meant for people to read. Giving an example of people reading them and then taking heed should not be seen as example of someone not seeing or hearing. Actually quite the opposite.
You can read it for yourself.Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
(Wayne Murray;37015)
You can read it for yourself.Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Ok, we must be having difficulty communicating.Exactly which part of the tradition I mentioned; where is mentions that nothing was left of the temple AND ALL Christians had fled to the hills, which part of that are you suggesting refutes what Jesus said would happen? The way I read that verse and the tradition is that it happened EXACTLY as both Jesus and Daniel said it would. I am failing to see where you have a problem with that. Do you not believe the temple was utterly destroyed around 70AD? Or is it that you do not think these scriptures have anything to do with that event? Or is it that you have trouble believing any part of the city or it's burbs was left standing?
You can read it for yourself.Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Ok, we must be having difficulty communicating.Exactly which part of the tradition I mentioned; where is mentions that nothing was left of the temple AND ALL Christians had fled to the hills, which part of that are you suggesting refutes what Jesus said would happen? The way I read that verse and the tradition is that it happened EXACTLY as both Jesus and Daniel said it would. I am failing to see where you have a problem with that. Do you not believe the temple was utterly destroyed around 70AD? Or is it that you do not think these scriptures have anything to do with that event? Or is it that you have trouble believing any part of the city or it's burbs was left standing?
(DrBubbaLove;37017)
Ok, we must be having difficulty communicating.Exactly which part of the tradition I mentioned; where is mentions that nothing was left of the temple AND ALL Christians had fled to the hills, which part of that are you suggesting refutes what Jesus said would happen? The way I read that verse and the tradition is that it happened EXACTLY as both Jesus and Daniel said it would. I am failing to see where you have a problem with that. Do you not believe the temple was utterly destroyed around 70AD? Or is it that you do not think these scriptures have anything to do with that event? Or is it that you have trouble believing any part of the city or it's burbs was left standing?
One stone upon another. Is that difficult to grasp?
Ok, we must be having difficulty communicating.Exactly which part of the tradition I mentioned; where is mentions that nothing was left of the temple AND ALL Christians had fled to the hills, which part of that are you suggesting refutes what Jesus said would happen? The way I read that verse and the tradition is that it happened EXACTLY as both Jesus and Daniel said it would. I am failing to see where you have a problem with that. Do you not believe the temple was utterly destroyed around 70AD? Or is it that you do not think these scriptures have anything to do with that event? Or is it that you have trouble believing any part of the city or it's burbs was left standing?
One stone upon another. Is that difficult to grasp?
What is difficult to grasp is your point, not the scripture.So you are saying that if you were with someone standing in a temple, who then went outside and you pointed out to him all the beautiful buildings of that temple using the words for temple and not the entire city, then he told you that every stone you see here on top of another stone shall be thrown down; that you would automatically assume from those words that this individual meant the entire city and was not referring to only the temple and temple buildings you had just pointed out. So that unless EVERY STONE in the ENTIRE surrounding city were over also thrown down, you could not accept that what that person had said 40 years earlier had come true at all. Forget for the moment that we know parts of the city with stones on top of stones exist today and that those stacked stones predate Jesus time, still say that this is a very odd way to look at these verses. Why take the view that only a total destruction of the entire city would fulfill Jesus’ prediction? Why is that the only possible meaning of that verse? What is the clue from those words that only total destruction of every building in Jerusalem would fit? The army did indeed destroy much more than the temple and it’s buildings, but even their own records indicate they INTENTIONALLY left pieces of the fortress standing.Had they only destroyed the temple and it’s buildings, why would that not at least fulfill Jesus’ Words? If someone foretold the TOTAL devastation of Hiroshima in similar terms, are we to mock them by claiming it did not really happen because we can show them pictures of structures still standing, some partial structures even near ground zero? To me making such distinction is trivial; really splitting hairs and it mocks the person making the prediction.If it is not a clue from scripture itself, then are we to trust the words of men telling us that ONLY a total destruction of everything in and around the city would fit this passage?Is the reason to take such a stand on this verse ONLY to be able to claim the tradition I mentioned is a complete fabrication? Is a Holy place and Christians heeding God’s Word/ prior Warnings and being spared by God for "seeing and hearing"; is that such a revolting notion to believers, that we should seek any means to refute that it could have actually happened?BTW the tradition is not that any Christian took refuge in that Church, they fled to the hills as the prophets suggested they should. Nor does the tradition indicate that the Church was totally undamaged, just that the officers stood between it and few other buildings looking over the destruction of the city (the location is apparently the second highest in the city and was the army's command center for the siege of the temple was in this area).Can we explain how we could see God sparing a Holy place and the Christians that fled to the hills as a bad thing?
Thanks for answering all my questions Wayne,One more time.Mat 24:1 ¶ And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple. (2) And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.Unless it is pointed out, people often forget that the original writing had no verses or numbers. Long before cut and paste, writers actually wrote in complete sentences and paragraphs, with sentences in the same paragraph following one after another and there actually being a connection between one sentence and the next. A new paragraph signified a new idea though it could be connected to the prior. People tend to speak that way too so it is good that most people write that way.
Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."This will happen on "the day of the Lord". God will shake the earth and send fire and brimstone upon it. The earthquakes will flatten the cities to where not one stone will stand upon another. Those two great mountains will shake, and the mount of Olives will split. All prophecies concerning Christ return include Mount Zion, and the Mount of Olives will be fulfilled. This is where Christ's feet will touch the earth, when He returns.When Jesus and His disciples were departing out of Jerusalem before he would be delivered up to be crucified, they asked Him what it would be like at His second coming. Matthew 24:2 "And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things [Temple buildings]? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."Sure the city of Jerusalem has been destroyed from time to time, but there are still many stones stacked upon each other from the original construction. A simple trip to Jerusalem reveals that, for the wailing wall is one of the most popular markings of that city. Before that time another temple shall be built, and the Antichrist shall rule from that spot.Then at the seventh trumpet, and Jesus Christ's return there will be a great shaking that will level the city of Jerusalem. At that shaking not one stone will be left upon another. Yet God will make a way of escape for his elect on that day. Then the "east gate", the one facing the "sun to the temple" will open a way of escape for God's people. That way will be there, and this destruction is not to be feared by one of God's elect.
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