Holocaust Remembrance Day

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Webers_Home

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Were I a Jew, I would not want the world to remind me of the way my
people were treated in the middle of last century because it's such a national
embarrassment.

It's a matter of historical record that Nazi death camps were populated not
only with Jews; but also with Poles, Romani, Soviet civilians, Soviet
prisoners of war, the disabled, homosexual men, and political and religious
opposition. Yes, Jews were there, but they don't own it. In point of fact,
Jewish prisoners amounted to barely half.

But one has to ask: How is it that Yhvh's people were caught up in it at all?
Where was God during the Holocaust? Why didn't He step in and do
something for His chosen people? The answer to that question is actually
very simple and it's on public display for all the world to see at Lev 26:14
38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-69. In other words: it was God's wishes
that His people undergo mistreatment during the middle of the last century.
Surprised? Well; you're not alone. The prophet Habakkuk couldn't believe his
ears when God told him of a pending invasion by the fierce Chaldeans that
God himself would expedite.

†. Hab 1:12 . . Are You not from everlasting, O Lord, my God, my Holy One?
We shall not die. O Lord, You have ordained them for judgment, and, O
Mighty God, You have established them for correction.

It made sense to Habakkuk that God would come down on the Chaldeans;
but no sense to him at all that God would come down on His own chosen
people. But anybody who has read the Old Testament can attest that God
came down on His own people quite often; and just as often quite cruelly.
Why? Because according to the covenant that God agreed upon with Yhvh's
people as per Deut 19:9-15, He is morally obligated to both cause, and to
allow, bad things to happen to them. There are numerous blessings that
He's morally obligated to fulfill too; so the covenant isn't all one-sided; viz:
obedience accrues blessings; while disobedience accrues curses.

A covenant is essentially a contract. Well; if God were to fail to fulfill His end
of the agreement; then He would be in breach of contract; which is not only
unethical, but also uncivil. God is, after all, very jealous of His integrity. So
He pretty much has no choice but to cause, and to allow, bad things to
happen to His people from time to time if only to protect His reputation.

Ironically, it's very possible that the generation taken by the Holocaust
wasn't the one responsible for their treatment due to Yhvh's statement
below:

†. Ex 34:6-7 . . Then Yhvh passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed:
Yhvh, Yhvh God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding
in loving-kindness and truth; who keeps loving-kindness for thousands, who
forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the
guilty unpunished: visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the
grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.

In other words: the plight of the Jews who perished in German death camps
could very well have been due to the impiety of Jews who lived several
generations prior to Hitler's time. What I'm talking about here isn't
unprecedented.

Take for example the Flood. No doubt quite a few innocent children drowned
in that event due to their parents' wickedness.

Ham's son Canaan was cursed because of his father's indiscretion in the
matter of Noah's nakedness.

How many innocent children perished in Sodom and Gomorrah?

During Moses' confrontation with Pharaoh, God moved against everything
that pertained to the man; including, but not limited to, his economy, his
land, his livestock, his citizens, his citizens' children, and his own children.

It's a very disturbing biblical fact of life that sometimes God gets back at the
parents by going after things that pertain to them.

God took the life of David's innocent little baby boy to get back at his father
for committing the capital crimes of premeditated murder and adultery.

Another example is located in the 16th chapter of Numbers where not just
the rebels were punished; but their entire families and all their belongings
were swallowed by a fissure that God opened in the ground beneath their
feet.

A close call is recorded in the book of Jonah. Had not the adults in Ninevah
changed their ways, something like 120,000 little children would have
perished; not to mention all the cattle. According to Jonah 4:11, taking out
children and dumb animals is not something that God enjoys. But there is a
mysterious element to absolute justice that apparently compels Him to do it.

The Flood, Ham's son Canaan, Sodom and Gomorrah, Pharaoh, David,
Korah, and Ninevah lead me to suspect that God's chosen people caught up
in the Holocaust weren't caught up as retribution for their own sins; but
rather; as retribution for the sins of past generations.

You know; the status of God's chosen people has its advantages; but also its
disadvantages; viz: the status of God's chosen people is not something to be
proud of; but rather, something to be afraid of because the covenant's God
is not the kind of judge influenced by favoritism. No; if anything, Yhvh's
people run the risk of being judged even more severely than Gentiles
because of their privileged position.

†. Amos 3:1-2 . . Hear this word that Yhvh has spoken against you, O
children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land
of Egypt, saying: You only have I known of all the families of the earth:
therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.



Buen Camino
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laid renard

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I know God hates sin, but I never really thought about HOW much He hates it. I mean for punishment to occur to generations on down....

I've known of this generational thing, but there is also generational blessings as well.

Still, as much as I LOVE God, He confuses me. I don't even try to understand Him anymore. His ways are so much more higher than mine. I sometimes think even when we are finally with Him and are like Him, that I still won't be able to totally understand Him. But then again who wants a God that is not higher than them ?


Very interesting read Webers_Home, thank you. I knew there were other nationalities that were killed in these camps, but I did not know that they made up as much as half. And I also did not know that the disabled and homosexuals were included as well. I guess Hitler saw disabilities as something that he could erase himself. :rolleyes:
And the homosexuals.... I thought they kept a lower profile decades ago. Surprising.

Sometimes I feel safe in God's arms. But sometimes the world just feels like one big scary place.

Also, I get angry when I hear of the ignorance of some who say the Holocaust never happened. I guess all that film footage was from a movie huh ?

So in closing, when we remember the Holocaust on this day, we should walk away with the importance of the repercussions of disobedience. Sobering.


God Bless ~
 

Webers_Home

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when we remember the Holocaust on this day, we should walk away
with the importance of the repercussions of disobedience.
I fully agree; because if God would lower the boom on "My people" then it's
to be expected that He would lower the boom on Christ's people too.

†. Rom 11:20-22 . . Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but
you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not
spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Behold then the
kindness and the severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you,
God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be
cut off.

†. 1Cor 10:11-12 . . Now these things happened to them as an example,
and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages
have come. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.



Buen Camino
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Webers_Home

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The word "holocaust" is derived from a combination of Greek words
indicating, some say, a ritual animal sacrifice.

That's an appropriate meaning seeing as how a number of Jews sincerely
believe that the deaths of six million of their fellows via German atrocities
during the second world war satisfied Isaiah's prophecy in the 53rd chapter.
A rabbinic interpretation of that chapter proposes, in so many words, that
the Jews' fate at the hands of Hitler's minions accomplished the
salvation of the world.

The interpretation is a bit involved so I won't go into it here; but suffice it to
say that the interpretation provides, for some, the only rational explanation
as to why Yhvh stood by and did nothing to prevent so many of His
own people from being needlessly executed by Nazi mad men.

There are astute Bible scholars of the opinion that the Jewish genocide of the
last century was only a taste of one to come in the future when a political
figure, known by just about everybody as the anti-Christ, will target the
Jews with another mass extinction. They say his won't be confined to Europe
like the last one, but will encompass the whole world so that Jews won't be
safe anywhere on the planet.

Those scholars also believe that the present State of Israel isn't permanent;
but that the Jews will be conquered and lose control of their homeland all
over again. I don't know for myself whether those scholars are right, but if
they are, then it would appear that the Jews' future at this point in time is
looking mighty grim, to say the least.



Buen Camino
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laid renard

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Oh wow. I gotta look up that chapter tomorrow. Do you really think this is going to happen again ?

It's late and it was a long day at work. Plus I'm sick. Ugh.

Bible study time is going to be interesting tomorrow !

Not making light of this situation, just excited that my concentration is slowly returning to me.

God bless !!!
 

Webers_Home

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FAQ: Is the world supposed to believe it was the Jews' own fault that they
were rounded up like cattle, stripped of their dignity, their property, their
wealth, and their possessions, enslaved, starved, deprived of basic human
necessities, tortured, subjected to Frankensteinian medical experiments,
worked to death, and gassed, shot, and incinerated by the millions?

A: If the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Deut
29:9-15 is binding; then the Jews' are definitely at fault for what happened
to them. There's really no mystery to this: it's all laid out in black and white
at Lev 26:14-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-69.

It's okay to pity the Jews; but I am confident that letting them off the hook
would make God look unreliable at honoring His commitments. No; when
God makes an agreement with somebody; he keeps it. Human beings can't
be trusted to keep their word; but you will never find God in breach of
contract. The upside to the Holocaust is that it provides the world proof
positive that it can count on God to make good on whatever He says.

Supposing I'm right; that there was no one to blame for the Holocaust but
the Jews themselves? If so; then what might they have done to deserve it?

Well; you'd be surprised how few Jews it takes to ruin it for all the rest. For
example the incident at Ai in the 7th chapter of Joshua. The disobedience of
one insignificant Jewish man-- just one --caused God to stop assisting
Joshua's army in battle. As a result, 36 men were needlessly killed in action;
and ultimately capital punishment was inflicted upon not only the
disobedient man himself, but also his sons and his daughters. God's
accusation? "Israel has sinned" (Josh 7:11)

See that? God didn't accuse the man of sin; no; He accused Israel. In other
words: in that particular incident; the sin of just one Jew under Joshua's
command became the sin of all the Jews under his command; viz: the whole
kit and caboodle-- lock, stock, and barrel.

In another Old Testament incident; God lowered the boom on 70,000 Jews.
What did they do to deserve it? Absolutely nothing. The sin of just one
Jewish man caused their deaths. King David had broken the covenant that
Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Deut 29:9-15 and taken a
census. As a result; those 70,000 Jews went to their deaths through no fault
of their own; it was all on David.

I can't imagine what just one Jew would have to do in order to bring about
the deaths of six million of his fellows; but if a whole bunch of them
throughout Europe were breaking the covenant all at the same time, I guess
that could become a sort of force-multiplier.

That's pretty scary when you think about it because more than fifty percent
of the Jews living in the State of Israel right now today are hiloni (secular).
In my estimation, that's easily enough covenant-breaking Jews all in one
place for God to justify bringing down the whole country; and then if you
combine those with the number of covenant-breaking Jews around the rest
of the world, including the USA; now you can appreciate just how insecure
Israel's future really is. In point of fact, that might help explain why Israel
hasn't had a moment's peace; but instead has been in a constant state of
war since its inception back in 1948.



Buen Camino
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DPMartin

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If one is a Jew, one wouldn’t be embarrassed to be reminded, and if you where in touch with the rest of the world you would know that the Jewish community doesn’t want the world to forget what it is capable of doing to the Jews and any other disenfranchised group of people.

Also, who has the right to say anything about what Israel deserves or doesn’t deserve? Especially when it comes to their relationship with the Lord THEIR God. Note it is the Lord God the Almighty who is Creator of Heaven and earth that has chosen to associated Himself with the Children of Israel. Therefore it is His place to say what it is they, deserve.

 
If one is confused about the Way God does, that maybe because one doesn’t value what God values. Most who are confused about God’s Ways when His People suffer this or that, value the fulfillment of their own desires. Hence God values the fulfillment of His Heart, therefore who agrees to what is in the Heart of God?
 

Webers_Home

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Webers_Home said:
The upside to the Holocaust is that it provides the world proof-positive that
it can count on God to make good on whatever He says.
That may not be a comforting thought for people on the road to hell; but for
those of us who have bought into the cross for safety from the wrath of God,
it's the best news ever.

†. John 3:14-15 . . And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; that whoever believes in Him may
have eternal life.

The incident to which Jesus referred is on record at Num 21:4-9. Long story
short; Yhvh's people got to angrily complaining about the quality of the food
that God was providing them for nourishment on their journey; so He taught
them a lesson by sending a swarm of poisonous snakes amongst them; and
those snakes were extremely lethal. The only cure for their venom was a
likeness of the snakes that God instructed Moses to construct and hoist aloft
on a pole where everyone who looked to it was spared certain death.

That's a pretty good picture of the cross. Trust Jesus and his crucifixion to
protect you from the wrath of God and you will be protected. Fail to trust
him and his crucifixion; and you won't be protected. Simple as that. You
have God's word on it.

†. John 3:34 . . He whom God has sent speaks the words of God

†. John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things

which I have heard of Him.

†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent
me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should
speak.

†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.



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Webers_Home

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DPMartin said:
If you where in touch with the rest of the world you would know that the
Jewish community doesn’t want the world to forget what it is capable of
doing to the Jews.
It would be much better for everyone if the Jewish community didn't want
the world to forget what Yhvh is capable of doing to the Jews as per
Lev 26:1438, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-69.

It's frequently asked that if true that the Jews, as a people, brought the
Holocaust upon themselves in accordance with the language of the covenant
that their ancestors agreed upon as per Deut 29:9-15; then why don't
they own up to it instead of always going about playing the victim and acting
so indignant?

Well; sad to say: the Jewish people, on the whole, are famous for their
stubbornness; not only in the Bible; but in real life too. It's actually quite
systemic. Finding a Jew who will admit they are wrong-- wrong about
anything --is like searching for the Loch Ness monster and the lost city of
Atlantis. The average rank and file Jew is so defensive, so reactive, so
obtuse, so stiff-necked, so adamant, so self-righteous, so arrogant, and so
infected with a chosen-people superiority complex; that they simply cannot
tolerate criticism; not even criticism coming straight from the mouth of the
very God with whom they boast an elite association.

†. Isa 58:1 . . Cry loudly, do not hold back; raise your voice like a trumpet,
and declare to My people their transgression, and to the house of Jacob their
sins.

†. Zech 7:11-14 . . But they refused to pay attention, and turned a stubborn
shoulder and stopped their ears from hearing. And they made their hearts
like flint so that they could not hear the law and the words which Yhvh of
legions had sent by His spirit through the former prophets. Therefore great
wrath came from Yhvh of legions. And it came about that just as He called
and they would not listen, so they called and I would not listen— testifies
Yhvh of legions.

Daniel's confession in this regard is well worth the read at Dan 9:2-16. In

point of fact, Moses was fed up with them right from the get-go.

†. Deut 9:24 . .You have been rebellious against the Lord from the day I knew
you.


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