lets discuss this baptism that many of us Christians are completly unaware of.I will be honest with you . this other baptism i know nothing of.i have looked in my bible and . My bible says there is only one baptism.i Have checked with Jesus in my bible and He himself instituted only one Baptism a baptism of water and the Spiriti Have never seen where he said one has to have this other baptism A Spirit baptism . I have never read in my bible that it even exist's. and i never seen where Jesus commanded any one that they should have it .but he did Command water baptism and he did say that we should have that so we can receive the Holy Spirit.As long as we have that baptism THAT Jesus instituted we receive the Holy Spirit .The neat think about Jesus baptism at hiS WATER baptism we see he did receive the Holy Spirit IN A VISABLE fORM during it.and we heard God the Father say how pleased he was with his Son also.But we never hear God say that during any other kind of baptim but water baptism.and we never see Jesus partake of any other baptism either.if that baptism alone was good enough for Jesus isnt it good enough for us to?I guess the clincer is if Jesus would have wanted us to have any other baptism . He would have plainly said so. AS plain as his command was for water baptism in which we receive the Holy Spirit.Now if faith in Jesus our only savior from sin or if we could be strengthened in that faith by our own human minds There would be no need of the Holy Spirit. and no need for baptim.
holy spirit baptism.
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You are mistaken Jesus has one baptisim it is repentance and belief then you are baptised by the Holy spirit water is not nessary it is symbolic the water that John used did not baptise Jesus the Holy spirit in the form of a dove did his baptism came from above not below
(kriss;39632)
You are mistaken Jesus has one baptisim it is repentance and belief then you are baptised by the Holy spirit water is not nessary it is symbolic the water that John used did not baptise Jesus the Holy spirit in the form of a dove did his baptism came from above not below
the bible verses on baptim dont support your theory.and i go by the bible not peoples opinions.
You are mistaken Jesus has one baptisim it is repentance and belief then you are baptised by the Holy spirit water is not nessary it is symbolic the water that John used did not baptise Jesus the Holy spirit in the form of a dove did his baptism came from above not below
the bible verses on baptim dont support your theory.and i go by the bible not peoples opinions.
"Repent and be baptised every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). No water mentioned hereAfter Pencost Day water became symbolic Acts 1:5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.Before this we could only be baptied by the Father and the holy spiritand the Water represented the Son who was to come and replace it.You wanna show me where you think it says this water is nessary?
(kriss;39637)
"Repent and be baptised every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). No water mentioned hereYou wanna show me where you think it says this?
repent and be baptized.the verse does not say repent and then be baptized . Does it?do you understand the differance? if the bible said repnet and "then" bebaptized . we would know that there would be a time lapse between the two.there would be two distinct actions one apart from the other.how should i expalin it.?It just like this a Mormon thinks he can work his way to perfection that he has time to do it. and because of that no need for a savior from sin.Untill a christian points out but the bible does not say that you have time . it says "be" perfect as I the lord God am perfect.be meaning right now this instant. and if you cant do that you miss Gods mark and are damned to eternal darkness.your simply wrong their is no two distinct actions or time lapse the bible says repent and bebaptized.and thats why its also called a baptim of repentance.and further more there is no true repentance unless it is the holy Spirti work.now read all the verses on baptism especialy the one in titus.And you will see the holy Spirits is at work in baptim.
"Repent and be baptised every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). No water mentioned hereYou wanna show me where you think it says this?
repent and be baptized.the verse does not say repent and then be baptized . Does it?do you understand the differance? if the bible said repnet and "then" bebaptized . we would know that there would be a time lapse between the two.there would be two distinct actions one apart from the other.how should i expalin it.?It just like this a Mormon thinks he can work his way to perfection that he has time to do it. and because of that no need for a savior from sin.Untill a christian points out but the bible does not say that you have time . it says "be" perfect as I the lord God am perfect.be meaning right now this instant. and if you cant do that you miss Gods mark and are damned to eternal darkness.your simply wrong their is no two distinct actions or time lapse the bible says repent and bebaptized.and thats why its also called a baptim of repentance.and further more there is no true repentance unless it is the holy Spirti work.now read all the verses on baptism especialy the one in titus.And you will see the holy Spirits is at work in baptim.
What are you talking about what space of time if you confess Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior repent of your sins you will be baptised by the Holy spirit thats it one baptism one God one religion it is you who are reading what is not there There is no water required to baptise anyone it is prefered as symbolic. It was the old way before Christ died for our sins Now we are saved by Grace through Jesus Christ
the Holy Spirit coming from God was on apostels but the Holy spirit through Christ was not avaiable until Pencost Day This was the change that John was speaking of that Baptism from that day forward. Christ was infact changing baptism from water to spirt(fire).God is a consuming fire it was after Christ died and was seated on the right hand of God that this baptism of the full God head (trinity) was possable this was the New baptism of spiit/fire
No where in scripture does it say any where that one must confess Jesus before baptism.And since it does say repent and be baptized WITH NO TIME LAPSE we Know the Holy Spirit is the one that is able in baptism to work repentance .And this agrees with the rest of the baptismal passages we find in scripture.About the holy spirit working in baptism.You did not think baptim was some great big thing you do for God did you that he should thank you?No once again God gets the glory it is he that works in Baptism for our good.now how do we know the "one baptism" Ephesians 4:5 talks about is water baptism ? Ephesians 5:25-27 IS THE ONLY BAPTISM MENTIONEDAND IT AGREES WITHTitus 3:5 taks about it also and 1 Peter 3:20-21
(horsecamp;39629)
lets discuss this baptism that many of us Christians are completly unaware of.I will be honest with you . this other baptism i know nothing of.i have looked in my bible and . My bible says there is only one baptism.i Have checked with Jesus in my bible and He himself instituted only one Baptism a baptism of water and the Spiriti Have never seen where he said one has to have this other baptism A Spirit baptism . I have never read in my bible that it even exist's. and i never seen where Jesus commanded any one that they should have it .but he did Command water baptism and he did say that we should have that so we can receive the Holy Spirit.As long as we have that baptism THAT Jesus instituted we receive the Holy Spirit .The neat think about Jesus baptism at hiS WATER baptism we see he did receive the Holy Spirit IN A VISABLE fORM during it.and we heard God the Father say how pleased he was with his Son also.But we never hear God say that during any other kind of baptim but water baptism.and we never see Jesus partake of any other baptism either.if that baptism alone was good enough for Jesus isnt it good enough for us to?I guess the clincer is if Jesus would have wanted us to have any other baptism . He would have plainly said so. AS plain as his command was for water baptism in which we receive the Holy Spirit.Now if faith in Jesus our only savior from sin or if we could be strengthened in that faith by our own human minds There would be no need of the Holy Spirit. and no need for baptim.
Hi, In Ephesians 4: 5, it says, "One baptism" Yet in Hebrews 6: 2, It mentions "The doctrine of baptisms". Note the word is in the plural, BAPTISMS. That is because the are three baptisms mentioned in the Bible.[1] there is the water baptism Acts 8: 36--38[2] Then there is The baptism into the body of Christ, 1 Corinthians 12:13, This is the "One baptism mentioned in Eph 4: 5, [This is when we are born again][3] Then there is the baptism in the Holy Ghost, Matthew 3: 11, Acts 1: 5, Acts 8:14--17, Acts, Acts 10: 44--48, with chapter 11: 16. Acts 19: 1--6,Note Paul's question in v 2, Paul said, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed". If we are Baptised in the Holy Ghost at the rebirth, Paul's question wouldn't have made any sense, He would have known we have. We receive the Holy Spirit at the rebirth, but there is a baptism into Him.please note, in Acts 1: 5, Jesus Himself said, "You shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost"
lets discuss this baptism that many of us Christians are completly unaware of.I will be honest with you . this other baptism i know nothing of.i have looked in my bible and . My bible says there is only one baptism.i Have checked with Jesus in my bible and He himself instituted only one Baptism a baptism of water and the Spiriti Have never seen where he said one has to have this other baptism A Spirit baptism . I have never read in my bible that it even exist's. and i never seen where Jesus commanded any one that they should have it .but he did Command water baptism and he did say that we should have that so we can receive the Holy Spirit.As long as we have that baptism THAT Jesus instituted we receive the Holy Spirit .The neat think about Jesus baptism at hiS WATER baptism we see he did receive the Holy Spirit IN A VISABLE fORM during it.and we heard God the Father say how pleased he was with his Son also.But we never hear God say that during any other kind of baptim but water baptism.and we never see Jesus partake of any other baptism either.if that baptism alone was good enough for Jesus isnt it good enough for us to?I guess the clincer is if Jesus would have wanted us to have any other baptism . He would have plainly said so. AS plain as his command was for water baptism in which we receive the Holy Spirit.Now if faith in Jesus our only savior from sin or if we could be strengthened in that faith by our own human minds There would be no need of the Holy Spirit. and no need for baptim.
Hi, In Ephesians 4: 5, it says, "One baptism" Yet in Hebrews 6: 2, It mentions "The doctrine of baptisms". Note the word is in the plural, BAPTISMS. That is because the are three baptisms mentioned in the Bible.[1] there is the water baptism Acts 8: 36--38[2] Then there is The baptism into the body of Christ, 1 Corinthians 12:13, This is the "One baptism mentioned in Eph 4: 5, [This is when we are born again][3] Then there is the baptism in the Holy Ghost, Matthew 3: 11, Acts 1: 5, Acts 8:14--17, Acts, Acts 10: 44--48, with chapter 11: 16. Acts 19: 1--6,Note Paul's question in v 2, Paul said, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed". If we are Baptised in the Holy Ghost at the rebirth, Paul's question wouldn't have made any sense, He would have known we have. We receive the Holy Spirit at the rebirth, but there is a baptism into Him.please note, in Acts 1: 5, Jesus Himself said, "You shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost"
(horsecamp;39643)
No where in scripture does it say any where that one must confess Jesus before baptism.And since it does say repent and be baptized WITH NO TIME LAPSE we Know the Holy Spirit is the one that is able in baptism to work repentance .And this agrees with the rest of the baptismal passages we find in scripture.About the holy spirit working in baptism.You did not think baptim was some great big thing you do for God did you that he should thank you?No once again God gets the glory it is he that works in Baptism for our good.
What do you think I am saying???????You have to believe in Christ he is the only way then you must repent of your sins thats it I never said any of the stuff you are saying
No where in scripture does it say any where that one must confess Jesus before baptism.And since it does say repent and be baptized WITH NO TIME LAPSE we Know the Holy Spirit is the one that is able in baptism to work repentance .And this agrees with the rest of the baptismal passages we find in scripture.About the holy spirit working in baptism.You did not think baptim was some great big thing you do for God did you that he should thank you?No once again God gets the glory it is he that works in Baptism for our good.
What do you think I am saying???????You have to believe in Christ he is the only way then you must repent of your sins thats it I never said any of the stuff you are saying
(Alanforchrist;39651)
Hi, In Ephesians 4: 5, it says, "One baptism" Yet in Hebrews 6: 2, It mentions "The doctrine of baptisms". Note the word is in the plural, BAPTISMS. That is because the are three baptisms mentioned in the Bible.[1] there is the water baptism Acts 8: 36--38[2] Then there is The baptism into the body of Christ, 1 Corinthians 12:13, This is the "One baptism mentioned in Eph 4: 5, [This is when we are born again][3] Then there is the baptism in the Holy Ghost, Matthew 3: 11, Acts 1: 5, Acts 8:14--17, Acts, Acts 10: 44--48, with chapter 11: 16. Acts 19: 1--6,Note Paul's question in v 2, Paul said, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed". If we are Baptised in the Holy Ghost at the rebirth, Paul's question wouldn't have made any sense, He would have known we have. We receive the Holy Spirit at the rebirth, but there is a baptism into Him.please note, in Acts 1: 5, Jesus Himself said, "You shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost"
Alan there is one baptism it changed after Acts there is only one Your idea of three is in error it acomplishes these three things but is oneYou must believe in Christ and repent of your sins to receive the Holy spirit and become a member of the body of Christ One baptisim
Hi, In Ephesians 4: 5, it says, "One baptism" Yet in Hebrews 6: 2, It mentions "The doctrine of baptisms". Note the word is in the plural, BAPTISMS. That is because the are three baptisms mentioned in the Bible.[1] there is the water baptism Acts 8: 36--38[2] Then there is The baptism into the body of Christ, 1 Corinthians 12:13, This is the "One baptism mentioned in Eph 4: 5, [This is when we are born again][3] Then there is the baptism in the Holy Ghost, Matthew 3: 11, Acts 1: 5, Acts 8:14--17, Acts, Acts 10: 44--48, with chapter 11: 16. Acts 19: 1--6,Note Paul's question in v 2, Paul said, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed". If we are Baptised in the Holy Ghost at the rebirth, Paul's question wouldn't have made any sense, He would have known we have. We receive the Holy Spirit at the rebirth, but there is a baptism into Him.please note, in Acts 1: 5, Jesus Himself said, "You shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost"
Alan there is one baptism it changed after Acts there is only one Your idea of three is in error it acomplishes these three things but is oneYou must believe in Christ and repent of your sins to receive the Holy spirit and become a member of the body of Christ One baptisim
(Alanforchrist;39651)
Hi, In Ephesians 4: 5, it says, "One baptism" Yet in Hebrews 6: 2, It mentions "The doctrine of baptisms". Note the word is in the plural, BAPTISMS. That is because the are three baptisms mentioned in the Bible.[1] there is the water baptism Acts 8: 36--38[2] Then there is The baptism into the body of Christ, 1 Corinthians 12:13, This is the "One baptism mentioned in Eph 4: 5, [This is when we are born again][3] Then there is the baptism in the Holy Ghost, Matthew 3: 11, Acts 1: 5, Acts 8:14--17, Acts, Acts 10: 44--48, with chapter 11: 16. Acts 19: 1--6,Note Paul's question in v 2, Paul said, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed". If we are Baptised in the Holy Ghost at the rebirth, Paul's question wouldn't have made any sense, He would have known we have. We receive the Holy Spirit at the rebirth, but there is a baptism into Him.please note, in Acts 1: 5, Jesus Himself said, "You shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost"
There are 3 person's yet one God .and yes all 3 baptisms are found in one baptism. so Ephesians 4:5 is true .that same baptism the one Jesus commanded and instituted . Mathew 28:18-20in it we recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38 New birth in Chris Titus 3:5 and WE are now clothed with Christ Galatians 3:26. though the bible seems like it is OFTEN contradictory it is not ; what seems untrue is true . there are very many other paradox's in the bible also.
Hi, In Ephesians 4: 5, it says, "One baptism" Yet in Hebrews 6: 2, It mentions "The doctrine of baptisms". Note the word is in the plural, BAPTISMS. That is because the are three baptisms mentioned in the Bible.[1] there is the water baptism Acts 8: 36--38[2] Then there is The baptism into the body of Christ, 1 Corinthians 12:13, This is the "One baptism mentioned in Eph 4: 5, [This is when we are born again][3] Then there is the baptism in the Holy Ghost, Matthew 3: 11, Acts 1: 5, Acts 8:14--17, Acts, Acts 10: 44--48, with chapter 11: 16. Acts 19: 1--6,Note Paul's question in v 2, Paul said, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed". If we are Baptised in the Holy Ghost at the rebirth, Paul's question wouldn't have made any sense, He would have known we have. We receive the Holy Spirit at the rebirth, but there is a baptism into Him.please note, in Acts 1: 5, Jesus Himself said, "You shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost"
There are 3 person's yet one God .and yes all 3 baptisms are found in one baptism. so Ephesians 4:5 is true .that same baptism the one Jesus commanded and instituted . Mathew 28:18-20in it we recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38 New birth in Chris Titus 3:5 and WE are now clothed with Christ Galatians 3:26. though the bible seems like it is OFTEN contradictory it is not ; what seems untrue is true . there are very many other paradox's in the bible also.
(horsecamp;39655)
There are 3 person's yet one God .and yes all 3 baptisms are found in one baptism. so Ephesians 4:5 is true .that same baptism the one Jesus commanded and instituted . Mathew 28:18-20in it we recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38 New birth in Chris Titus 3:5 and WE are now clothed with Christ Galatians 3:26. though the bible seems like it is OFTEN contradictory it is not ; what seems untrue is true . there are very many other paradox's in the bible also.
There are three persons yet one God? Where in the world is that in scripture?Doesn't that make 3 Gods? How do you get 3 persons but one God out of that? Let me ask you this. God is omnipresent, right? He is everywhere. He is a spirit. The heavens cannot contain Him, right? Now Stephen saw the Son of God standing at the right hand of God. Tell me where the right hand of God is if God is everywhere? Where is the left hand of God? Where is the top head of God? Where is the feet of God? How is the Son of God standing at the right hand of God? Or does this mean something else, perhaps a deeper revelation.
There are 3 person's yet one God .and yes all 3 baptisms are found in one baptism. so Ephesians 4:5 is true .that same baptism the one Jesus commanded and instituted . Mathew 28:18-20in it we recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38 New birth in Chris Titus 3:5 and WE are now clothed with Christ Galatians 3:26. though the bible seems like it is OFTEN contradictory it is not ; what seems untrue is true . there are very many other paradox's in the bible also.
There are three persons yet one God? Where in the world is that in scripture?Doesn't that make 3 Gods? How do you get 3 persons but one God out of that? Let me ask you this. God is omnipresent, right? He is everywhere. He is a spirit. The heavens cannot contain Him, right? Now Stephen saw the Son of God standing at the right hand of God. Tell me where the right hand of God is if God is everywhere? Where is the left hand of God? Where is the top head of God? Where is the feet of God? How is the Son of God standing at the right hand of God? Or does this mean something else, perhaps a deeper revelation.
Here is scripture proving that there is one God.For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.now notice what the next verse says.And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.the first verse states that the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are one, and the next verse says the spirit, the water, and the blood, these three AGREE in one. Why didn't the first verse say: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three agree in one?
(kriss;39654)
Alan there is one baptism it changed after Acts there is only one Your idea of three is in error it acomplishes these three things but is oneYou must believe in Christ and repent of your sins to receive the Holy spirit and become a member of the body of Christ One baptisim
Are you saying that you don't believe the Bible anymore.I have given you scripture, you have given pure speculation.
Alan there is one baptism it changed after Acts there is only one Your idea of three is in error it acomplishes these three things but is oneYou must believe in Christ and repent of your sins to receive the Holy spirit and become a member of the body of Christ One baptisim
Are you saying that you don't believe the Bible anymore.I have given you scripture, you have given pure speculation.
(Alanforchrist;39700)
Are you saying that you don't believe the Bible anymore.I have given you scripture, you have given pure speculation.
No I believe the Bible is 100% Gods Word its the absoulte truth I dont believe in your interptations of scripture. Let me ask you are there contradictions in Gods Word??? If not how can it say there is one baptisim and also that ther are three baptisims ??? Either God word is contradicting itself or you are misreading what it says I say there are no contradictions in Gods Word so if you think there are you are wrong not the Word. So its your job to figure out where you are going wrong.
Are you saying that you don't believe the Bible anymore.I have given you scripture, you have given pure speculation.
No I believe the Bible is 100% Gods Word its the absoulte truth I dont believe in your interptations of scripture. Let me ask you are there contradictions in Gods Word??? If not how can it say there is one baptisim and also that ther are three baptisims ??? Either God word is contradicting itself or you are misreading what it says I say there are no contradictions in Gods Word so if you think there are you are wrong not the Word. So its your job to figure out where you are going wrong.
This is one of those doctrines I stay away from discussing, because I am still struggling with scripture foundation. But.....I am going to throw this out there for thought. Water baptism has been practiced since Leviticus (water cleansing), also the pagans practiced it. Knowing this....When John came on the scene and started baptizing in water, they did not question his element of baptism(water). This is because it was a cleansing ritual of the dispensation of the Law. Jesus was fulfilling the Law by being baptized in water. But just like all the rituals that were replaced and fulfilled in Jesus, so was baptism. There were a lot baptisms spoken of in the Bible...John's baptism, baptized unto Moses etc. But all were a picture of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Now that is the one baptism-the Holy Spirit's in the name of Jesus Christ. Yes, they still baptized in water, but it was just a ritual, not an element for salvation.In Mark 1:8 It seems like the water baptism was replaced by Spirit baptism.
Very good thoughts Setfree I do believe you nailed this one Hallelujah we are on the same page here
(horsecamp;39655)
There are 3 person's yet one God .and yes all 3 baptisms are found in one baptism. so Ephesians 4:5 is true .that same baptism the one Jesus commanded and instituted . Mathew 28:18-20in it we recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38 New birth in Chris Titus 3:5 and WE are now clothed with Christ Galatians 3:26. though the bible seems like it is OFTEN contradictory it is not ; what seems untrue is true . there are very many other paradox's in the bible also.
Where did you get that idear from?? I will show you why you are wrong.[1] you said, we receive the Holy Spirit in Matt 28: 18--20, If that is true, Then Paul and God got it wrong in Acts 10: 44--48, They were saved,[Baptised into the body of Christ] Baptised in the Holy Ghost, But were not baptised in water yet.[2] We are renewed by the Holy Ghost at the rebirth, But there is a different experience called, The baptism in the Holy Ghost.Acts 8: 14--17, Please note, They were saved [Baptised into the body of Christ] But they were not baptised in the Holy Ghost. "TWO DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES.Acts 9:17, Ananias said, "Brother Saul". Then he was filled with the Holy Ghost, Bible scollars agrees that Paul was converted In v 6: when he said,"Lord, what wilt thou have me to do" [He was baptised into the body of Christ], But not in the Holy Ghost or water.Acts 19, 1--6, They were Disciples, [baptised into the body of Christ] But were not baptised in the Holy Ghost, until v6:.Please note, v2, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed"If we are baptised in the Holy Ghost at the rebirth [Born of the Spirit] then why would Paul ask that question. The reason he asked,was, Because it is a different experinece.
There are 3 person's yet one God .and yes all 3 baptisms are found in one baptism. so Ephesians 4:5 is true .that same baptism the one Jesus commanded and instituted . Mathew 28:18-20in it we recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38 New birth in Chris Titus 3:5 and WE are now clothed with Christ Galatians 3:26. though the bible seems like it is OFTEN contradictory it is not ; what seems untrue is true . there are very many other paradox's in the bible also.
Where did you get that idear from?? I will show you why you are wrong.[1] you said, we receive the Holy Spirit in Matt 28: 18--20, If that is true, Then Paul and God got it wrong in Acts 10: 44--48, They were saved,[Baptised into the body of Christ] Baptised in the Holy Ghost, But were not baptised in water yet.[2] We are renewed by the Holy Ghost at the rebirth, But there is a different experience called, The baptism in the Holy Ghost.Acts 8: 14--17, Please note, They were saved [Baptised into the body of Christ] But they were not baptised in the Holy Ghost. "TWO DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES.Acts 9:17, Ananias said, "Brother Saul". Then he was filled with the Holy Ghost, Bible scollars agrees that Paul was converted In v 6: when he said,"Lord, what wilt thou have me to do" [He was baptised into the body of Christ], But not in the Holy Ghost or water.Acts 19, 1--6, They were Disciples, [baptised into the body of Christ] But were not baptised in the Holy Ghost, until v6:.Please note, v2, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed"If we are baptised in the Holy Ghost at the rebirth [Born of the Spirit] then why would Paul ask that question. The reason he asked,was, Because it is a different experinece.
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