Contrary to popular belief, the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity is not only true, but it was copied-over into the Koran, on numerous occasions.In order to demonstrate this fact, let’s direct our attention to one of the quintessential Koranic ayahs used by Muslims as evidence against the Biblical Trinity, 4.171, and see exactly what the intended message really is.4.171 contains a veritable gold mine of Biblical concepts, however, for this study we will concentrate on examining what it states regarding The Trinity. 4.171… يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على اللهإلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول اللهوكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا باللهورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما اللهإله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly his what in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.The key term utilized is the word “thalathatun”.Defining the term…ثلثة = “thalathatun”“thalathatun” definition:A noun of a number. Three. It is said that when it means the things numbered, not the amount of the number, it is imperfectly decl., being regarded as a proper name. It comes from the root “thalatha” (tha-lam-tha), which means he took the third of the goods, or property, of the people, or company of men; to take a third part of a thing. He made twelve to be thirteen. A third, a third part or portion.References:An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 347 - 349The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 83 – 84Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 40Occurrences of “thalathatun” in the Koran: 2 Locations: 4.171, 18.22 Per the classic definition; the things being numbered, are regarded as a proper name. Well…what is being numbered in 4.171…?Let’s look…It is clear from the text that Jesus is both Mary’s and (in this case) “allah’s” Son.Same as copied from the Holy Bible.Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word.Same as copied from the Holy Bible.Furthermore, the “allah” of the Koran is shown to have a Spirit which is also imputed into Jesus.Same as copied from the Holy Bible.Thus….we have just witnessed three elements of “allah”.Now...look what is stated next…“…Refrain from saying: "Three..."Why should we not say that “allah” is three when we were just told of three elements that pertain to him….?Here’s why…Because…“allah (is) one allah” Thus…it is crystal clear that not only does this ayah (among other things) proclaim the Biblical Trinity – but it also is an admonishment to refrain from stating that “allah” is the result of a proper name that emanates from counted things! Now we can understand that the authors who penned this ayah indeed understood the concept of the Biblical Trinity.
Holy Trinity confirmed as truth in Koran...
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You said: Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word.Well, since you said that- you must agree with: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Red_Letters88;57257)
You said: Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word.Well, since you said that- you must agree with: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Yes...
You said: Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word.Well, since you said that- you must agree with: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Yes...
(apple pie;57306)
(Red_Letters88;57257)
You said:Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word.Well, since you said that- you must agree with:John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Yes...Well I'm glad to hear that you believe that Christ is God. I'm sure you can agree with...Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
(Red_Letters88;57257)
You said:Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word.Well, since you said that- you must agree with:John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Yes...Well I'm glad to hear that you believe that Christ is God. I'm sure you can agree with...Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
tomwebster
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(apple pie;57067)
...The Messiah Jesus[/U], Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, ...It is clear from the text that Jesus is both Mary’s and (in this case) “allah’s” Son....Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word....Because…“allah (is) one allah”....
One problem, allah is NOT the name of GOD!
...The Messiah Jesus[/U], Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, ...It is clear from the text that Jesus is both Mary’s and (in this case) “allah’s” Son....Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word....Because…“allah (is) one allah”....
One problem, allah is NOT the name of GOD!
(tomwebster;57309)
(apple pie;57067)
...[/u]The Messiah Jesus[/u], Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, ...It is clear from the text that Jesus is both Mary’s and (in this case) “allah’s” Son....Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word....Because…“allah (is) one allah”....
One problem, allah is NOT the name of GOD!That's true too. ... YHVH
(apple pie;57067)
...[/u]The Messiah Jesus[/u], Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, ...It is clear from the text that Jesus is both Mary’s and (in this case) “allah’s” Son....Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word....Because…“allah (is) one allah”....
One problem, allah is NOT the name of GOD!That's true too. ... YHVH
(tomwebster;57309)
One problem, allah is NOT the name of GOD!
True.The term "allah" has never been a name of the true Biblical God.However, this did not stop the authors of the Koran from dressing-up the pagan moon-god "allah" with deity already ascribed unto Jesus Christ...I think that we can all agree that the Koranic "allah" is a false god.The interesting thing is that the Koran even confirms the concept of the Holy Trinity....with the god "allah" attempting to slip into the picture...
One problem, allah is NOT the name of GOD!
True.The term "allah" has never been a name of the true Biblical God.However, this did not stop the authors of the Koran from dressing-up the pagan moon-god "allah" with deity already ascribed unto Jesus Christ...I think that we can all agree that the Koranic "allah" is a false god.The interesting thing is that the Koran even confirms the concept of the Holy Trinity....with the god "allah" attempting to slip into the picture...
(apple pie;57328)
I think that we can all agree that the Koranic "allah" is a false god.The interesting thing is that the Koran even confirms the concept of the Holy Trinity....with the god "allah" attempting to slip into the picture...
Ah ok, Apple Pie- I see your stance on this. When I first just gazed over your original post I thought you were just another muslim telling us about our "false doctrines." But now I have clearly read and understand what you have shared. Interesting information, God bless.
I think that we can all agree that the Koranic "allah" is a false god.The interesting thing is that the Koran even confirms the concept of the Holy Trinity....with the god "allah" attempting to slip into the picture...
Ah ok, Apple Pie- I see your stance on this. When I first just gazed over your original post I thought you were just another muslim telling us about our "false doctrines." But now I have clearly read and understand what you have shared. Interesting information, God bless.
(apple pie;57067)
Contrary to popular belief, the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity is not only true, but it was copied-over into the Koran, on numerous occasions.In order to demonstrate this fact, let’s direct our attention to one of the quintessential Koranic ayahs used by Muslims as evidence against the Biblical Trinity, 4.171, and see exactly what the intended message really is.4.171 contains a veritable gold mine of Biblical concepts, however, for this study we will concentrate on examining what it states regarding The Trinity. 4.171… يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على اللهإلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول اللهوكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا باللهورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما اللهإله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly his what in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.The key term utilized is the word “thalathatun”.Defining the term…ثلثة = “thalathatun”“thalathatun” definition:A noun of a number. Three. It is said that when it means the things numbered, not the amount of the number, it is imperfectly decl., being regarded as a proper name. It comes from the root “thalatha” (tha-lam-tha), which means he took the third of the goods, or property, of the people, or company of men; to take a third part of a thing. He made twelve to be thirteen. A third, a third part or portion.References:An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 347 - 349The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 83 – 84Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 40Occurrences of “thalathatun” in the Koran: 2 Locations: 4.171, 18.22 Per the classic definition; the things being numbered, are regarded as a proper name. Well…what is being numbered in 4.171…?Let’s look…It is clear from the text that Jesus is both Mary’s and (in this case) “allah’s” Son.Same as copied from the Holy Bible.Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word.Same as copied from the Holy Bible.Furthermore, the “allah” of the Koran is shown to have a Spirit which is also imputed into Jesus.Same as copied from the Holy Bible.Thus….we have just witnessed three elements of “allah”.Now...look what is stated next…“…Refrain from saying: "Three..."Why should we not say that “allah” is three when we were just told of three elements that pertain to him….?Here’s why…Because…“allah (is) one allah” Thus…it is crystal clear that not only does this ayah (among other things) proclaim the Biblical Trinity – but it also is an admonishment to refrain from stating that “allah” is the result of a proper name that emanates from counted things! Now we can understand that the authors who penned this ayah indeed understood the concept of the Biblical Trinity.
First at all that translation of the verse 4:171 in the above quote is false. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (‘Be’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you.For Allah is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All* Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs”[al-Nisa’ 4:171] In this verse Allah referred to ‘trinity and incarnation, and forbade both of these beliefs. He states that the Messiah is only “a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (‘Be’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him”. And He says, “so believe in Allaah and His Messengers”, then He says, “Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you”.
Contrary to popular belief, the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity is not only true, but it was copied-over into the Koran, on numerous occasions.In order to demonstrate this fact, let’s direct our attention to one of the quintessential Koranic ayahs used by Muslims as evidence against the Biblical Trinity, 4.171, and see exactly what the intended message really is.4.171 contains a veritable gold mine of Biblical concepts, however, for this study we will concentrate on examining what it states regarding The Trinity. 4.171… يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على اللهإلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول اللهوكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا باللهورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما اللهإله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly his what in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.The key term utilized is the word “thalathatun”.Defining the term…ثلثة = “thalathatun”“thalathatun” definition:A noun of a number. Three. It is said that when it means the things numbered, not the amount of the number, it is imperfectly decl., being regarded as a proper name. It comes from the root “thalatha” (tha-lam-tha), which means he took the third of the goods, or property, of the people, or company of men; to take a third part of a thing. He made twelve to be thirteen. A third, a third part or portion.References:An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 347 - 349The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 83 – 84Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 40Occurrences of “thalathatun” in the Koran: 2 Locations: 4.171, 18.22 Per the classic definition; the things being numbered, are regarded as a proper name. Well…what is being numbered in 4.171…?Let’s look…It is clear from the text that Jesus is both Mary’s and (in this case) “allah’s” Son.Same as copied from the Holy Bible.Observe that Jesus (The Messiah) is not merely “allah’s messenger; but he is also “wa” his Word.Same as copied from the Holy Bible.Furthermore, the “allah” of the Koran is shown to have a Spirit which is also imputed into Jesus.Same as copied from the Holy Bible.Thus….we have just witnessed three elements of “allah”.Now...look what is stated next…“…Refrain from saying: "Three..."Why should we not say that “allah” is three when we were just told of three elements that pertain to him….?Here’s why…Because…“allah (is) one allah” Thus…it is crystal clear that not only does this ayah (among other things) proclaim the Biblical Trinity – but it also is an admonishment to refrain from stating that “allah” is the result of a proper name that emanates from counted things! Now we can understand that the authors who penned this ayah indeed understood the concept of the Biblical Trinity.
First at all that translation of the verse 4:171 in the above quote is false. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (‘Be’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you.For Allah is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All* Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs”[al-Nisa’ 4:171] In this verse Allah referred to ‘trinity and incarnation, and forbade both of these beliefs. He states that the Messiah is only “a Messenger of Allah and His Word, (‘Be’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him”. And He says, “so believe in Allaah and His Messengers”, then He says, “Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you”.
Shame on those (atheists excepted) who say that Allah is a false God since by doing that they are denying the very Existence of God. English translation of the word "Allah" is "Deity". The fact is that Allah (Arabic), YHWH (Hebrew), God (English), Prabhu (Hindi), Khuda (Urdu), Rabb (Punjabi), etc are all the names of One Almighty in different languages. We all worship same God except when a person from some polytheist belief starts worshipping a certain idol or human-being etc. Otherwise it´s the same. For example if were to believe that Allah is not the same Deity in Whom Jesus believed then let me tell you that billions of English speaking people are not believing The Right Deity as they believe in a "God" which is an English word whereas Jesus believed in YHWH.Allah isn´t any Islamic God, but it´s the Arabic word to mention Him. Muhammad didn´t invent any new God. What if Arabs believed in an unseen Allah before Islam as well? Islam is the religion chosen by God for His people, not that the religion itself found a new God.I hope that helped!
hellohi everybody! im new to this forum and i registered just so that i could reply to this post.apple pie, my friend, your translation of:wala taqooloo thalathatunis wrong.wa=andla=no/donttaqooloo= call/ saythalathatuhun= threeas you can see it says DONT say threeironically your first translation of "wala" in "wala taqooloo AAala Allahi" was correct but in the second one wala somehow magically turned into "and certainly"id just like to say please re-check it yourself (and all other good christians who read this)im sure we all no its not good to spread false news.hope you all read this!Malik_________________________________________________________ god is ONE and to say otherwise would be stupid. to say he came out of a womans womb would be ridiculous. to say so would mean he had a mother (goddess?), grandparents? and the list goes on..jesus was created the same way adam was created, the same way earth was created: "BE!(allah says) and it is"
(Red_Letters88;57332)
Ah ok, Apple Pie- I see your stance on this. When I first just gazed over your original post I thought you were just another muslim telling us about our "false doctrines." But now I have clearly read and understand what you have shared. Interesting information, God bless.
Hi RL,Thanks for your input...
Ah ok, Apple Pie- I see your stance on this. When I first just gazed over your original post I thought you were just another muslim telling us about our "false doctrines." But now I have clearly read and understand what you have shared. Interesting information, God bless.
Hi RL,Thanks for your input...
(Truth_Teller;57340)
First at all that translation of the verse 4:171 in the above quote is false. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion,
“Alkitabi” refers to the Holy Bible. Thus, this is not limited to just Christians – as had to be artificially inserted into the text of your rendering.
nor say of Allah aught but the truth.
There were no periods, punctuation, or diacritical markings in the original Arabic. Thus, it is improper to have a period after ‘The truth’ – which is actually an epithet applying the Jesus Christ, as thus… يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على اللهإلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول اللهوكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا باللهورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما اللهإله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his son, truly his what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.Here is the classic definition for “innama”…إنما = “innama”“innama” definition:According to the grammarians, it is a compound of “inna” and “ma”, which latter prevents the former’s having any government: it imports restriction: it imports the restriction of that which it precedes to that which follows it. In other words, it is used to particularize, or specify, or distinguish a thing from other things: it affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it, and denies it in relation to other things. Some say that it does not import restriction, but only corroboration of an affirmation, because it is a compound of the corroborative “inna” and the redundant “ma” which restrains the former from exercising government, and that it has no application to denote negation implied in restriction. It therefore seems that it is susceptible of both these meanings, bearing one or the other according as this or that suits the place. Rendered as “only”, verily. References:An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 103 – 111; 118A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 285The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 35A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 11The classic definition quite clearly states that “innama” affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it.Thus, “alhaqqi” (i.e. The Truth), is the “thing” that is being related to Jesus – which is mentioned after it.Hence, “The truth is only Jesus Christ”…
The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah
The words “no more than” do not appear in the Arabic.Hence, this is more abrogation of the text by Muslims in order to make it fit with the Islamic paradigm.
and His Word, (‘Be’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers.
This is not a creation ayah.You will not find “be” and “created” anywhere in this ayah.Jesus was not created. Even 3.59 tells us this.
Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you.
The word “Trinity” does not exist in ancient Arabic…hence, the need to artificially insert it into the text…
For Allah is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son.
The words “far exulted is he above having” do not appear in the Arabic – hence more abrogation of your original scripture.This ayah actually confirms in the affirmative that Jesus Christ is the Son.
To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All* Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs”[al-Nisa’ 4:171]
To whom…..?
In this verse Allah referred to ‘trinity and incarnation, and forbade both of these beliefs. He states that the Messiah is only “a Messenger of Allah
False.The word used is “illa” which places Jesus Christ in a class all by Himself.
First at all that translation of the verse 4:171 in the above quote is false. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion,
“Alkitabi” refers to the Holy Bible. Thus, this is not limited to just Christians – as had to be artificially inserted into the text of your rendering.
nor say of Allah aught but the truth.
There were no periods, punctuation, or diacritical markings in the original Arabic. Thus, it is improper to have a period after ‘The truth’ – which is actually an epithet applying the Jesus Christ, as thus… يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على اللهإلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول اللهوكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا باللهورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما اللهإله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his son, truly his what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.Here is the classic definition for “innama”…إنما = “innama”“innama” definition:According to the grammarians, it is a compound of “inna” and “ma”, which latter prevents the former’s having any government: it imports restriction: it imports the restriction of that which it precedes to that which follows it. In other words, it is used to particularize, or specify, or distinguish a thing from other things: it affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it, and denies it in relation to other things. Some say that it does not import restriction, but only corroboration of an affirmation, because it is a compound of the corroborative “inna” and the redundant “ma” which restrains the former from exercising government, and that it has no application to denote negation implied in restriction. It therefore seems that it is susceptible of both these meanings, bearing one or the other according as this or that suits the place. Rendered as “only”, verily. References:An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 103 – 111; 118A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 285The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 35A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 11The classic definition quite clearly states that “innama” affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it.Thus, “alhaqqi” (i.e. The Truth), is the “thing” that is being related to Jesus – which is mentioned after it.Hence, “The truth is only Jesus Christ”…
The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah
The words “no more than” do not appear in the Arabic.Hence, this is more abrogation of the text by Muslims in order to make it fit with the Islamic paradigm.
and His Word, (‘Be’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers.
This is not a creation ayah.You will not find “be” and “created” anywhere in this ayah.Jesus was not created. Even 3.59 tells us this.
Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you.
The word “Trinity” does not exist in ancient Arabic…hence, the need to artificially insert it into the text…
For Allah is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son.
The words “far exulted is he above having” do not appear in the Arabic – hence more abrogation of your original scripture.This ayah actually confirms in the affirmative that Jesus Christ is the Son.
To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All* Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs”[al-Nisa’ 4:171]
To whom…..?
In this verse Allah referred to ‘trinity and incarnation, and forbade both of these beliefs. He states that the Messiah is only “a Messenger of Allah
False.The word used is “illa” which places Jesus Christ in a class all by Himself.
(Truth_Teller;57342)
Shame on those (atheists excepted) who say that Allah is a false God since by doing that they are denying the very Existence of God. English translation of the word "Allah" is "Deity". The fact is that Allah (Arabic), YHWH (Hebrew), God (English), Prabhu (Hindi), Khuda (Urdu), Rabb (Punjabi), etc are all the names of One Almighty in different languages. We all worship same God except when a person from some polytheist belief starts worshipping a certain idol or human-being etc. Otherwise it´s the same. For example if were to believe that Allah is not the same Deity in Whom Jesus believed then let me tell you that billions of English speaking people are not believing The Right Deity as they believe in a "God" which is an English word whereas Jesus believed in YHWH.Allah isn´t any Islamic God, but it´s the Arabic word to mention Him. Muhammad didn´t invent any new God. What if Arabs believed in an unseen Allah before Islam as well? Islam is the religion chosen by God for His people, not that the religion itself found a new God.I hope that helped!
Completely and utterly false.The "allah" as revealed in the Koran is Satan.The term "allah" itself is fully rooted in pagan Arab idol worship including the new moon and the great serpent.
Shame on those (atheists excepted) who say that Allah is a false God since by doing that they are denying the very Existence of God. English translation of the word "Allah" is "Deity". The fact is that Allah (Arabic), YHWH (Hebrew), God (English), Prabhu (Hindi), Khuda (Urdu), Rabb (Punjabi), etc are all the names of One Almighty in different languages. We all worship same God except when a person from some polytheist belief starts worshipping a certain idol or human-being etc. Otherwise it´s the same. For example if were to believe that Allah is not the same Deity in Whom Jesus believed then let me tell you that billions of English speaking people are not believing The Right Deity as they believe in a "God" which is an English word whereas Jesus believed in YHWH.Allah isn´t any Islamic God, but it´s the Arabic word to mention Him. Muhammad didn´t invent any new God. What if Arabs believed in an unseen Allah before Islam as well? Islam is the religion chosen by God for His people, not that the religion itself found a new God.I hope that helped!
Completely and utterly false.The "allah" as revealed in the Koran is Satan.The term "allah" itself is fully rooted in pagan Arab idol worship including the new moon and the great serpent.
(MalikFarooqi;57348)
hellohi everybody! im new to this forum and i registered just so that i could reply to this post.apple pie, my friend, your translation of:wala taqooloo thalathatunis wrong.wa=andla=no/donttaqooloo= call/ saythalathatuhun= threeas you can see it says DONT say threeironically your first translation of "wala" in "wala taqooloo AAala Allahi" was correct but in the second one wala somehow magically turned into "and certainly"id just like to say please re-check it yourself (and all other good christians who read this)im sure we all no its not good to spread false news.hope you all read this!Malik
Point well taken brother Malik...I have corrected it as thus...يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على اللهإلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول اللهوكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا باللهورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما اللهإله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan4.171 You The Book's family, do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and they say not "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his son, truly his what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.Thus, there still is no change in meaning for this ayah.This ayah clearly states what the Biblical Trinity is not....it is not three...even though three separate things were just listed...Father...Son...Spirit...Seems pretty clear that the authors of this ayah understood the concept of the Biblical Trinity.Thanks...
hellohi everybody! im new to this forum and i registered just so that i could reply to this post.apple pie, my friend, your translation of:wala taqooloo thalathatunis wrong.wa=andla=no/donttaqooloo= call/ saythalathatuhun= threeas you can see it says DONT say threeironically your first translation of "wala" in "wala taqooloo AAala Allahi" was correct but in the second one wala somehow magically turned into "and certainly"id just like to say please re-check it yourself (and all other good christians who read this)im sure we all no its not good to spread false news.hope you all read this!Malik
Point well taken brother Malik...I have corrected it as thus...يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على اللهإلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول اللهوكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا باللهورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما اللهإله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan4.171 You The Book's family, do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and they say not "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his son, truly his what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.Thus, there still is no change in meaning for this ayah.This ayah clearly states what the Biblical Trinity is not....it is not three...even though three separate things were just listed...Father...Son...Spirit...Seems pretty clear that the authors of this ayah understood the concept of the Biblical Trinity.Thanks...
It is really sad that anyone would try to prove a false teaching, using a pagan book.When you start with a false premise and try to use superstition to prove it is always a looser.
(apple pie;57370)
Completely and utterly false.The "allah" as revealed in the Koran is Satan.The term "allah" itself is fully rooted in pagan Arab idol worship including the new moon and the great serpent.
See for yourself that even your artificial God, Jesus Christ, also used the word Allah:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c4Sj_GRZ_o&feature=relatedAmazing!!!
Completely and utterly false.The "allah" as revealed in the Koran is Satan.The term "allah" itself is fully rooted in pagan Arab idol worship including the new moon and the great serpent.
See for yourself that even your artificial God, Jesus Christ, also used the word Allah:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c4Sj_GRZ_o&feature=relatedAmazing!!!
(Truth_Teller;57408)
See for yourself that even your artificial God, Jesus Christ, also used the word Allah:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c4Sj_GRZ_o&feature=relatedAmazing!!!
Not only did the producers of this clip steal segments from a motion picture, but they also have their definitions completely backwards.They state that “Ahmad” means “the praised one” – when, in fact, “praised one” is the classic lexical definition for “Muhammad”.They state that “Muhammad” means “the most praised” – when, in fact, “one worthy of praise” is the classic lexical definition for “Ahmad”.The only thing that they got right was that the two words share the same Arabic root. Further, lexically and contextually, both words are referring to the Biblical Jesus Christ.
See for yourself that even your artificial God, Jesus Christ, also used the word Allah:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c4Sj_GRZ_o&feature=relatedAmazing!!!
Not only did the producers of this clip steal segments from a motion picture, but they also have their definitions completely backwards.They state that “Ahmad” means “the praised one” – when, in fact, “praised one” is the classic lexical definition for “Muhammad”.They state that “Muhammad” means “the most praised” – when, in fact, “one worthy of praise” is the classic lexical definition for “Ahmad”.The only thing that they got right was that the two words share the same Arabic root. Further, lexically and contextually, both words are referring to the Biblical Jesus Christ.
(Truth_Teller;57428)
That doesn´t matter here. We are discussing about Allah here.
الله = “allah”“allah” definition:Written with the disjunctive alif, meaning God, i.e. the only true god, according to the most correct of the opinions respecting it. It is a proper name to the Being who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all of the attributes of perfection; a proper name denoting the true god (TA), comprising all the excellent divine names; a unity comprising all of the essences of existing things; the “al” being inseparable from it; not derived. It comes from the root “ilaha”, which means he served, worshipped, or adored; to adore, worship, deify any one, call any one god. He was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course. An object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him that takes it as such. It signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon.References:An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 82 - 83The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 28 - 29Key points:• Observe the revealing definition for “allah”, that is given by Lane...“i.e. the only true god”• Lane is referencing a very specific example in his definition by his illustrated example (i.e.)• It is abundantly clear that he is referencing a “god” (lower case) to represent the “allah” of the Koran• To re-enforce the fact that the “allah” of the Koran is no more than a “god”, and to erase any notion of error, Lane repeats his very same remarks a few lines farther down in his lexical definition for “allah”, by referencing a separate entry – this time from the legendary “Ta’j el-‘Aroos” (TA)• (TA; ) “a proper name denoting the true god, comprising all the excellent divine names; a unity comprising all the essence of existing things”• Further, “allah” is derived from the root “ilaha”, which means “he was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course”• This would hardly seem a logical definition for true deity• “ilaha” also means “an object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him who takes it as such”…which signifies idolatry as mentioned in Revelation• “ilaha” also signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moonClearly…The Triune Creator God of the Holy Bible is the true God.The god of the Koran is no more than a pagan Arab god dressed-up to look like the Biblical God.
That doesn´t matter here. We are discussing about Allah here.
الله = “allah”“allah” definition:Written with the disjunctive alif, meaning God, i.e. the only true god, according to the most correct of the opinions respecting it. It is a proper name to the Being who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all of the attributes of perfection; a proper name denoting the true god (TA), comprising all the excellent divine names; a unity comprising all of the essences of existing things; the “al” being inseparable from it; not derived. It comes from the root “ilaha”, which means he served, worshipped, or adored; to adore, worship, deify any one, call any one god. He was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course. An object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him that takes it as such. It signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moon.References:An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 82 - 83The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 28 - 29Key points:• Observe the revealing definition for “allah”, that is given by Lane...“i.e. the only true god”• Lane is referencing a very specific example in his definition by his illustrated example (i.e.)• It is abundantly clear that he is referencing a “god” (lower case) to represent the “allah” of the Koran• To re-enforce the fact that the “allah” of the Koran is no more than a “god”, and to erase any notion of error, Lane repeats his very same remarks a few lines farther down in his lexical definition for “allah”, by referencing a separate entry – this time from the legendary “Ta’j el-‘Aroos” (TA)• (TA; ) “a proper name denoting the true god, comprising all the excellent divine names; a unity comprising all the essence of existing things”• Further, “allah” is derived from the root “ilaha”, which means “he was, or became, confounded, or perplexed, and unable to see his right course”• This would hardly seem a logical definition for true deity• “ilaha” also means “an object of worship or adoration; i.e. a god, a deity; anything that is taken as an object of worship or adoration, according to him who takes it as such”…which signifies idolatry as mentioned in Revelation• “ilaha” also signifies the goddess; and particularly the serpent; because it was a special object of worship of some of the ancient Arabs; or the great serpent; and the new moonClearly…The Triune Creator God of the Holy Bible is the true God.The god of the Koran is no more than a pagan Arab god dressed-up to look like the Biblical God.
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