How to choose a correct church to go to?

[lastsecman]

You need to go directly to ask the pastor of the church on their viewpoint about salvation

Some pastors think that once you receive salvation, which is to admit that Jesus Christ is Lord and that he died on the cross for all of people's sins, afterwards salvation becomes permanent, you won't be able to lose the salvation no matter what.
Such pastors won't really seriously take care and lead the believers in the church, he would concentrate his centre more on the comfort and security of his life.


Some pastors are not sure wether they have salvation or not, they think that people's salvation need to be gained by trying very hard, which is people need to have very good deeds and must be very very pure in thoughts and morals, only then could they have the very slim chance of not being judged by God to the eternal hellfire after their death.
Though such pastors very responsibly takes care of the believers in the church, yet because they don't have the peace of eternal life in their hearts themselves, therefore they are also not able to lead most people into the peace of eternal life.


The right pastor's viewpoint on eternal life should be,
'Eternal life comes from the redemption of Lord Jesus Christ on the cross. But people need to hold on to this salvation given to us by God by obeying and carrying out his commandments.'

Jesus had also warned people:

Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

The prophets Jesus talked about here are people who lead others to God, therefore pastors of churches can be counted as one of them.
The fruit Jesus talked about here are the behaviours/ actions of people.

 

[lastsecman]

Sorry, corrections to add to above article...

Some pastors are not sure wether they have salvation or not, they think that people's salvation need to be gained by trying very hard. This means during their lifetime they need to rely on Lord Jesus' power and leading to become someone very pure in morals and thoughts, and to become someone with many kind deeds, only then could they have more chance of not being thrown into hellfire by God in their judgement after death. This means that they think that the redemption by Lord Jesus on the cross forgave only the sins they had committed before they came to know the Lord, other sins committed by them after that would have to rely on their own efforts of intently doing the Lord's work and obeying his commandments to make themself right with God for their redemption.
Though such pastors very responsibly takes care of the believers in the church, yet because they don't have the peace of eternal life in their hearts themselves, therefore they are also not able to lead most people into the peace of eternal life.

 

[timf]

Can we know for sure that we are saved and going to heaven‭?

Jesus says that there will be many to whom he will say,‭ "‬I never knew you‭"‬.‭ ‬We also see Jesus telling the Pharisees,‭ "‬you are of your father the devil‭"‬.‭ ‬There have been,‭ ‬are,‭ ‬and will continue to be people who are mistaken about their‭ "‬salvation‭" ‬and the status of their relationship with God.‭

The question becomes,‭ "‬How can we be sure‭"?

The Bible says both that we can‭ "‬know‭" ‬we are saved‭ (‬1‭ ‬John‭ ‬5:13‭)‬,‭ ‬and that we should examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith‭ (‬2‭ ‬Corinthians‭ ‬13:5‭)‬.‭ ‬This is not a contradiction.‭ ‬The Bible tells us that there is uncertainty and can be certainty.‭ ‬The Bible also tells us to persevere.‭ ‬To the theologian this apparent ambiguity is something he must resolve and explain.‭ ‬As a result,‭ ‬there are many doctrines of various denominations that are promulgated more for their tidiness than their accuracy.

We might want to consider that the lack of Biblical specificity is not an error,‭ ‬but rather the desire of God that we derive our assurance of salvation directly from Him.‭ ‬God may want us unsure and ill at ease until we mature in faith and grow in the image of Christ and closer to Him.

Some religious experts offer measurement standards such as having been baptized,‭ ‬saying a particular prayer,‭ ‬having taken Jesus‭ "‬into your heart‭"‬,‭ ‬or made Jesus Lord of your life as the criteria to guarantee that one is saved.

If someone asks me if they are saved,‭ ‬I try to help them by using measurement criteria from the Bible.‭ ‬For example,‭ ‬the Bible is foolishness to those that are perishing,‭ "‬Do you think the Bible is foolish‭?"‬.‭ ‬The Bible says that people will know that we are Christians by the love we have for each other,‭ "‬Do you have love for other Christians‭?" ‬We have been sealed with the Holy Spirit,‭ "‬Do you discern His presence‭?" ‬The Christian is supposed to be in a process of becoming like Jesus,‭ "‬Are you becoming like Jesus‭?"‬.

For the person who is not comforted by such questions,‭ ‬I suggest that he put more work into knowing his Savior,‭ ‬the Bible,‭ ‬and surrendering himself to Jesus.‭ ‬Often it is worldly attachments and walking in the flesh that prevent a person from growing closer to his Lord and thus able to draw certainty of salvation.

Our modern organizational religious systems have lost the personal touch.‭ ‬They will often tell someone to be assured because they have met the established criteria and are thus saved.‭ ‬The relational component of Christianity comes in when an older and wiser Christian brother or sister can show a younger one how to draw closer to Jesus and gain the assurance they seek directly from Him who saved them.‭ ‬Christians do not need to fight over what they feel is the most accurate doctrinal statement.‭ ‬They need to encourage those whose faith is weak and walk is distant to draw closer to their Lord and draw their certainty directly from Him who loves them.

 

[Duckybill]

Anyone who goes to a church seeking God is making a terrible mistake. Read the Bible.

Psalm 119:105 (ESV)
[sup]105 [/sup]Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.

 

[lastsecman]

Currently following the just believing way without fear of not following all of God's commandments, feels good, so I guess the whole post I posted above would be wrong. So! If anyone had read it just ignore it, apologies!

 

[veteran]

Can we know for sure that we are saved and going to heaven‭?

Jesus says that there will be many to whom he will say,‭ "‬I never knew you‭"‬.‭ ‬We also see Jesus telling the Pharisees,‭ "‬you are of your father the devil‭"‬.‭ ‬There have been,‭ ‬are,‭ ‬and will continue to be people who are mistaken about their‭ "‬salvation‭" ‬and the status of their relationship with God.‭

The question becomes,‭ "‬How can we be sure‭"?

The Bible says both that we can‭ "‬know‭" ‬we are saved‭ (‬1‭ ‬John‭ ‬5:13‭)‬,‭ ‬and that we should examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith‭ (‬2‭ ‬Corinthians‭ ‬13:5‭)‬.‭ ‬This is not a contradiction.‭ ‬The Bible tells us that there is uncertainty and can be certainty.‭ ‬The Bible also tells us to persevere.‭ ‬To the theologian this apparent ambiguity is something he must resolve and explain.‭ ‬As a result,‭ ‬there are many doctrines of various denominations that are promulgated more for their tidiness than their accuracy.

We might want to consider that the lack of Biblical specificity is not an error,‭ ‬but rather the desire of God that we derive our assurance of salvation directly from Him.‭ ‬God may want us unsure and ill at ease until we mature in faith and grow in the image of Christ and closer to Him.

Some religious experts offer measurement standards such as having been baptized,‭ ‬saying a particular prayer,‭ ‬having taken Jesus‭ "‬into your heart‭"‬,‭ ‬or made Jesus Lord of your life as the criteria to guarantee that one is saved.

If someone asks me if they are saved,‭ ‬I try to help them by using measurement criteria from the Bible.‭ ‬For example,‭ ‬the Bible is foolishness to those that are perishing,‭ "‬Do you think the Bible is foolish‭?"‬.‭ ‬The Bible says that people will know that we are Christians by the love we have for each other,‭ "‬Do you have love for other Christians‭?" ‬We have been sealed with the Holy Spirit,‭ "‬Do you discern His presence‭?" ‬The Christian is supposed to be in a process of becoming like Jesus,‭ "‬Are you becoming like Jesus‭?"‬.

For the person who is not comforted by such questions,‭ ‬I suggest that he put more work into knowing his Savior,‭ ‬the Bible,‭ ‬and surrendering himself to Jesus.‭ ‬Often it is worldly attachments and walking in the flesh that prevent a person from growing closer to his Lord and thus able to draw certainty of salvation.

Our modern organizational religious systems have lost the personal touch.‭ ‬They will often tell someone to be assured because they have met the established criteria and are thus saved.‭ ‬The relational component of Christianity comes in when an older and wiser Christian brother or sister can show a younger one how to draw closer to Jesus and gain the assurance they seek directly from Him who saved them.‭ ‬Christians do not need to fight over what they feel is the most accurate doctrinal statement.‭ ‬They need to encourage those whose faith is weak and walk is distant to draw closer to their Lord and draw their certainty directly from Him who loves them.

I like that very much how you put it. Good witness.

 

[Prentis]

If I had one thing to say to someone who wanted to know which church to go to I would say... Pray! :)

I think if we follow our own opinions, beliefs, and doctrinal stances we end up just going where WE think we should go... But if we seek the Lord and he brings us where HE wants us, THEN we'll learn something and move forward in our walk with the Lord!

Follow the Spirit! The Letter kills but the Spirit gives life!!!

Blessings to you all, and nice to be here ;)

 

[tomwebster]

Find a church that teaches God's Word chapter by chapter and line by line and stay with it.

 

[Duckybill]

Find a church that teaches God's Word chapter by chapter and line by line and stay with it.

A huge problem is that most go to church seeking God rather than studying His Word first, and thereby fall prey to Satan. They might as well draw names from a hat.

 

[Prentis]

Find a church that teaches God's Word chapter by chapter and line by line and stay with it.

Hmm... Interesting... I was thinking about what you said and I'm just wondering, wouldn't it be easy to fool ourselves and go to a church that teaches it how WE understand it? You know, if WE are the ones doing the choosing, isn't the church going to be, so to speak, in OUR image? I think that's why we have so many divisions and denominations, everyone goes according to their own understanding!

Which rings a bell... "Walk not by your own understanding"!

Don't get me wrong, the word of God is true, but here's my take on it: seek the Spirit's guidance FIRST and then let the word CONFIRM the guidance so that you know if it really was the Spirit. I would say we don't follow the word, we follow the Spirit, but the word is a good way of confirming which spirit it is we are following.

Just my two cents :)

Blessings...

A huge problem is that most go to church seeking God rather than studying His Word first, and thereby fall prey to Satan. They might as well draw names from a hat.

I think you make an important point. We can't just go anywhere where they have a bible and believe what they say... As you say, we might as well draw names from a hat! Ok, we'll go by Mr. A's understanding! Not good...

But I would push it one step further. Reading the Bible is good, but I think we need to follow the living word, the Lord Jesus Christ. Seek his guidance in prayer, seek the Spirit, and let the scriptures confirms what he tells you.

I think otherwise we could turn into hollow shells... Not being full of the Spirit of the Lord. The letter of the law can't give life to your inner man, only the Spirit can, and so we need to be guided of the Spirit. If we are guided of the Spirit, the Word of the Lord will indeed be in agreement! :)

Blessings

 

[tomwebster]

Hmm... Interesting... I was thinking about what you said and I'm just wondering, wouldn't it be easy to fool ourselves and go to a church that teaches it how WE understand it? You know, if WE are the ones doing the choosing, isn't the church going to be, so to speak, in OUR image? I think that's why we have so many divisions and denominations, everyone goes according to their own understanding!

Which rings a bell... "Walk not by your own understanding"!

Don't get me wrong, the word of God is true, but here's my take on it: seek the Spirit's guidance FIRST and then let the word CONFIRM the guidance so that you know if it really was the Spirit. I would say we don't follow the word, we follow the Spirit, but the word is a good way of confirming which spirit it is we are following.

Just my two cents :)

....

If a pastor/teacher is teaching Scripture line on line and word on word you will not have a problem. You also wants someone that teaches you how to study, giving you the proper tools. I would not attend a church that doesn't stay in God's Word. The small portion of a verse you quoted is typical of someone that does not study Scripture verse by verse but depends on proof texting. Where is that phrase found, do you know?

 

[veteran]

I think you make an important point. We can't just go anywhere where they have a bible and believe what they say... As you say, we might as well draw names from a hat! Ok, we'll go by Mr. A's understanding! Not good...

But I would push it one step further. Reading the Bible is good, but I think we need to follow the living word, the Lord Jesus Christ. Seek his guidance in prayer, seek the Spirit, and let the scriptures confirms what he tells you.

I think otherwise we could turn into hollow shells... Not being full of the Spirit of the Lord. The letter of the law can't give life to your inner man, only the Spirit can, and so we need to be guided of the Spirit. If we are guided of the Spirit, the Word of the Lord will indeed be in agreement! :)

Blessings

Not trying to take sides here, but..., Christ Jesus is The Living Word of God. This is why The Bible is not just some old manuscript of history, but a Living Document FROM The Holy Spirit speaking through God's chosen witnesses. Those in Christ Jesus are to mature with both Bible understanding AND guidance by The Holy Spirit at the same time. One is not to be preferred over the other. That's why such phrases as "the letter of the law" is the wrong phrase to use when speaking of God's Word, for It is not just about the law.

2 Tim 3:15-17
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(KJV)

 

[martinlawrencescott]

Can we know for sure that we are saved and going to heaven‭?

Jesus says that there will be many to whom he will say,‭ "‬I never knew you‭"‬.‭ ‬We also see Jesus telling the Pharisees,‭ "‬you are of your father the devil‭"‬.‭ ‬There have been,‭ ‬are,‭ ‬and will continue to be people who are mistaken about their‭ "‬salvation‭" ‬and the status of their relationship with God.‭

The question becomes,‭ "‬How can we be sure‭"?....

Thank you timf, that is very wise. I needed to hear that.

 

[Holy Pursuit]

Not trying to take sides here, but..., Christ Jesus is The Living Word of God. This is why The Bible is not just some old manuscript of history, but a Living Document FROM The Holy Spirit speaking through God's chosen witnesses. Those in Christ Jesus are to mature with both Bible understanding AND guidance by The Holy Spirit at the same time. One is not to be preferred over the other. That's why such phrases as "the letter of the law" is the wrong phrase to use when speaking of God's Word, for It is not just about the law.

2 Tim 3:15-17
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(KJV)

Hi Veteran :)

I "think" Prentis, and please correct me if I am wrong Prentis, means that the Word and the Spirit work together to teach us. Without the Holy Spirit, leading us into all truth as we read His Word, then we are simply reading words on a page, which would mean living in the Letter of the Law and not the Spirit. The Spirit is what makes the Word living. Then when we receive His Truth, we go and live out the reality of the Word through the Spirit.

Again, Prentis if this is not what you mean, please correct me in your thinking.

 

[Prentis]

Hi Veteran :)

I "think" Prentis, and please correct me if I am wrong Prentis, means that the Word and the Spirit work together to teach us. Without the Holy Spirit, leading us into all truth as we read His Word, then we are simply reading words on a page, which would mean living in the Letter of the Law and not the Spirit. The Spirit is what makes the Word living. Then when we receive His Truth, we go and live out the reality of the Word through the Spirit.

Again, Prentis if this is not what you mean, please correct me in your thinking.

Yes! Thanks Holy Pursuit, you said it better than I could.

If we are trying to know where we should go, should we not pray? Is not the Spirit leading?

The word is very important... But if you go by the word, you might just read "Go to a street called Straight" this morning.... And then try and find a street called Straight :lol:
(It's in Acts if you're wondering)

Only you'd be missing the point. Ananias, who was sent to 'Straight street' was sent by the Spirit while in prayer. No, he did not find 'Go to a street called straight' in the scriptures, that was only written later. The point I'm making is that too often we don't follow the Spirit! The Bible is a book meant to teach us to follow the Spirit and the Lord. It is the story of others who have. We must enter the same experience!

 

[banjo71]

What church should you go to? Let the Holy Spirit guide you.

When I was 21, I had a strong call in my life to find God. I gave up all and joined the church my family went to, and they still do. God seemed unreachable, because they were putting the responsibility of justification on my own shoulders. It was a works-righteousness church at the core of the elder belief, although since that's not biblical, they would never admit that's they way they taught. But it was the little things you noticed that clued you in that something was wrong. Ministers had to wear suits, and only blue or black, else they might draw attention to themselves. During baptism, you were to promise never to sin again. And wear your hair up, if you were female, like your grandma who passed away did. You couldn't host your own bible studies. Basically, you had to overcome your outward manifesting sins, and inner ones, if you were honest enough, before you could be baptized and be considered a believer, although they called you a "member" more often than a believer. You see where the priorities were?


I had to leave the church, as the Holy Spirit took me out. He shut doors and opened doors, shut more doors, and finally opened the door to the church I go to now. It's a church that preaches the unadulterated Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I would have never known about this church had not the Holy Spirit led the way.

I think it's ok to "try and figure out" what type of church you need to attend; but when it comes down to it, God will put you where you belong. Quoting out of "God's Love Letters to You" by Larry Crabb, he writes:

God says: I am the only true God. There is none other. When you don't like what I'm doing, there is no plan B. I brought you out to bring you in.

 

[Prentis]

PS. To veteran. When you hold the Bible, are you holding Jesus?

It might be important to note that when Paul writes that to Timothy (see veteran's post), he's refering to the Old Testament! The NT wasn't put together yet and it was just a bunch of letters and books scattered around ;)

When you take that into account, and then consider reading the Bible to be it, then logic says the Pharisees who read the scriptures should of been just like Jesus... But they weren't! We are to walk by the Spirit... It is possible to study much but never learn!

We are to become a living epistle! A living testimony!

 

[Prentis]

God says: I am the only true God. There is none other. When you don't like what I'm doing, there is no plan B. I brought you out to bring you in.[/b]

I like your approach! Thanks for sharing :)

Don't get me wrong, brothers and sisters, I'm not saying studying is bad. What I'm saying is this; you can't follow what YOUR own mind and YOUR own understanding gets from the scriptures. You have to follow the Spirit. God's ways are higher than our ways... The way of our mind and understanding is NOT the way of the Lord. Not by might and not by strength but by my Spirit says the Lord. It's a different realm, a different reality, a different life.

(It's in Proverbs by the way, tomwebster ;) )

Blessings in Christ to you all

 

[Holy Pursuit]

PS. To veteran. When you hold the Bible, are you holding Jesus?

It might be important to note that when Paul writes that to Timothy (see veteran's post), he's refering to the Old Testament! The NT wasn't put together yet and it was just a bunch of letters and books scattered around ;)

When you take that into account, and then consider reading the Bible to be it, then logic says the Pharisees who read the scriptures should of been just like Jesus... But they weren't! We are to walk by the Spirit... It is possible to study much but never learn!

We are to become a living epistle! A living testimony!

I hope it's ok to respond to this as well. I probably missed this point in your first post, and want to clarify. Are you stating you do not believe the NT is the Word of God? Just the OT is? Don't worry I won't attack you if that is what you are telling us. :)
But the way that I see it, God knows beginning to end, and although the NT was not written, God knew it would be and so when I read the verse veteran wrote, it means the written word, including the NT AND it means the Living Word. Also, in order for us to read the written Word, the Holy Spirit also must teach us through it, otherwise it would be simply the Letter of the Law. The entire written Word points us to the Word made flesh.

Can you please be more specific on your reasoning why you do not accept the NT as the written Word (with a capital "W")? :)
Thanks Prentis

 

[aspen]

Prentis I agree with you regarding the Bible

I think it is common for some people to confuse Gods word with God, himself