how to discern the false

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brodav9

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in 1Tim. 4:1 we se that many will depart from thhe faith.
There are some things that can help a Christian to avoid this.
Jesus said in Matt. 24: and Lk. 21 that he that endures to the end shall be saved. Matt. 10:22

The biggest---BIGGEST-- thing we have to do is love God. He is more important to us than money and things
If you love someone you will endure their faults. Dads and moms don't for the most part get rid of children. They do the best they can to help them and that is love also.
Jesus love is the ultimate. He died for us. We will lay down our lives for him if need be.

Peter really paid dearly when he said he didn't know the man when was asked when they arrested Jesus.
Judas sold Jesus for money, he realized how important Jesus was and threw down the money. it was his guilt that killed himself.

So the first and most important part is do we love him. We will then be his faithful and loyal followers. We are not called to be puppets but true heart believers who God is going to bless and do great things for now and through all eternity.

If you haven't had a real encounter with God through Jesus. All you have to do is tell him you love him and need him to reveal himself to you. He is in full anticipation more than you know to do that. You have my prayers to join with you in that. nxt time more helps to discernment.
 

brodav9

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One of the biggest deceptions is for a thing to appear Christian. Satan quoted the word of God to Jesus in Matt. 4: One thing that is important, which some say today we don;t need doctrine. To know doctrine is critical to knowing the true from the false.
In many years now people have said to me the Lord told me this or that, if he did it would line up with the word. One man said to his church people---he was married but the Lord wanted him to get a sister pregnant because he was going to be used by God as a prophet. The people in that church thought it was wonderful.
1Cor 14:10 their are many voices. We must make sure we know which.
1Tim. 4:1 some shall depart from the faith, that is how important it is to know the truth about many things.
liberty Baptist church school teaches that it is okay to blaspheme the Holy Spirit in this age of grace. tape ministry tape 4.
 

layhoma

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A few weeks back at Church service a guest speaker goes by the name " Bono " and introduced his rather unorthodox ways of preaching through some music mixed with rock n roll and new age themes. I left the service within the start of the first 5 minutes, went home and wrote to my Pastor: (Original Copy Below)

Dear Greg:

I would like to voice my opinion about the evening service we had tonight. I hope I will not give you any sense of judgement because what I am about to write I write out of love for all my Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

I would also like to make clear I'm not a legalist, nor a stuck up traditional Christian who has no room in my heart to explore new ways or avenues to worship God. I'm into Praise and Worship.

Though I'm a Baptist, but I don't regard myself associate with any denomination, technically speaking because I believe all denominations, or perhaps religion, only serve as vehicle as mean but not an end to reach God.[/background]
[
That said, the first thing that struck me tonight is the cover page of the evening itinerary. It has a Yin Yan symbol on it. The symbol represents Taoism in Chinese culture and they are considered a religious sect. In other words, the symbol is closely tied with occultism. [


Please open attachments:
Then open the link: http://www.thewatchman.co.za/More%20Symbols.html

The service started with some Rock N Roll music, which is fine in my opinion but when I started to sing the lyrics, I find the meaning of the song highly questionable. Somehow in my heart I felt unease. But when our "Guest Speaker" started playing the second song,

Grace is a girl...
trying to jump out of Karma, Karma, Karma......

Footnote* Christians don't believe in Karma
Footnote2* Try to read between the lines in the lyrics. There is some fishy connotations.


I started having goose bumps and my spirit tells me to leave immediately. Never had I experienced such discomfort in your church in my many years of attendance. I knew my spirit of discernment was in red alert. I walked out and went across the street trying to think over what happened and what went wrong. Am I being paranoid ? I ask myself. Then I saw one of your deacon came out and jumped into a taxi (without naming anyone in specific). Then a father of two walked out and I had this urge to approach them to ask if they were too having a difficult time coping with the night's worship. He said to me " Every time I set foot and started worshiping there was this feeling of joy and excitement but not tonight". I asked no more because I didn't want to be a whistle blower but just want to see if people who walked out share the same feelings as mine. My heart was not at peace until I prayed for forgiveness to Jesus

In my humble opinion Greg, you may agree to disagree, but I think we have invited a guest in tonight that preached the Gospel not of God of our Bible, not Yahweh nor the Great " I AM", but of a different god or entity. I don't have a theology degree but I have been prepared and kept up to date on the subject of spiritual warfare and I truly pray that I am wrong, if not, our guest speaker may have brought along some unwelcome spirits into our Church.

I am in no position to propose but may I share with you what others would do in a different church if such an incident would have occurred. The leader would lead a team and pray for forgiveness and use the authority God has invested in them through Jesus and cleanse the church for anything left behind unclean. I think I have said more than enough. Please accept my sincere apology if I sounded dogmatic or a little too unorthodox. But withholding information is just as guilty as spreading the wrong information. I trust you would know what's best.

In Christ

First of all, I googled the group "Bono" and there were plenty of articles, half accuse him of spreading the wrong gospel and half were for it. These articles were just references to let me see who I am dealing with. My judgement was not depended on rumors or testimonies from a few groups of critics but rather my fist hand witness in his service of ministry that night.

Long story short my pastor return an email, " Bono is very well known in the Christian community and even was commended by Billy Graham. The service left me rather conflicted but most of those conflicts were resolved by his very clear sermon that exalted Jesus Christ."

*My thought* "Watch out that no one deceives you, For many will come in my name...and will deceive many."(Mat 24:4-5).
"For false Christ's (messiahs) and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect, if that were possible" (verse 24).

So how does one discern a false prophet ? Can't answer you because everyone has different tricks up their sleeves. They could start quoting scriptures on spiritual warfare but fail how to unlock the secrets of how to applying them in real life. As for I, I will look for inconsistency in one's preaching. My first sign of warning was noticing this band using an occult symbol on the evening service itinerary, second, there were many new age themes such as Karma, using strange metaphors like 'Grace is a girl' in music lyrics regardless if the name Jesus was in it as well, third, I felt no joy in his preaching, last but not least, the feeling of my spirit in distress, yearning to get out from the hall. I've been in many churches but never had I felt and hear so clear from the Holy Spirit that this is not right! Make no mistake, I did not trust my feelings but by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that I was partaking a worship that is not aiming toward the Almighty.

What I learned: I read many books and read a good many scriptures of how wolves dressed in sheep's' skin but nothing is more precious than on a practical field trip. Unpleasant but it was a privilege Jesus had prepared for me to open my eyes to see how meticulous the enemy is and how they launch an assault in subtlety to our churches.

FYI: Feedback from the Pastor: 75 attendee that night and 15 left the service prematurely.

Blessings
 

biggandyy

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How to discern the false? That is easy; know the true doctrine so well that when a false teaching pops up it is instantly recognized as something else than the truth of the scripture.
 

layhoma

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How to discern the false? That is easy; know the true doctrine so well that when a false teaching pops up it is instantly recognized as something else than the truth of the scripture.

If it was that easy there wouldn't be so many disagreement among Christians in interpreting certain scriptures. Yes the Words of God are infallible. But we are not infallible so therefore sometimes we misinterpret the truth or take the words out of context and twisted the meaning even without having any ill intention.

The enemy often mix the gospel with half truth and half lies ( Just like the devil )and many flocks are often swayed by their cunning deceits.

Blessings!
 

biggandyy

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Is that Satan's fault or ours that we are so easily swayed by the idle chat of mere men? Too quick are most to ascribe to Satan what quite easily falls neatly in the lap of our humanity; pride, laziness, arrogance, and sloth.
 

Episkopos

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People who become convinced of something they read in the bible...then formulate an opinion on it...should be equally ready to question their certainty when another verse destroys or tempers the logic of the previously held opinion.

Truth is always the resolution of a tension between two seemingly incompatible ideas. But we must not solve the tension by expalining it away...but rather let God do so through His word. :)

In other words the bible interprets itself. But one must use all the verses..not just a selection of verses that support a position.
 

biggandyy

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The above is merely a common example of crass skepticism... being a skeptic for the sake of being skeptical. It has no more place in critical thinking than does crass hedonism.
 

brodav9

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When the Lord caused me to understand that there was a gift discernment of spirits , It became clear that our natural human discernment is limited. No criticism intended here, it really makes a difference that the Holy Spirit causes us to see clearly. In Rom. 8: even our prayers can be imperfect. That is why the Holy Spirit helps us to pray according to the will of God.

Judges and jury aren't always right--know what I mean. So we really need the Spirit to guide us in decisions. Not to negate the fact that as much as the word of God we learn the more accurate knowledge we have for each situatioin. Jesus says the Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. We have to have strength to even endure staying on the prayer path to overcome our minds straying towards other things. Devil tries to keep us busy.

I like the fellow from Hong Kong post, my joy would be that you are in revival where your at. you have blessed me. looking for more fellowship with you. Ps. 91:1 may God protect you with this promise.
 

aspen

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Layhoma - did your pastor respond? I would have felt the same way you did. Surprisingly to many here, I tend to be traditional when it comes to church services and doctrine. Obviously I interpret scripture using a wider lens than most people here, but I do believe that scripture is inspired by God and everything in scripture is supposed to be there. I left the Presbyterian Church because it is too liberal. I do not like the idea of meeting together to experiment with Rekki or Buddhist teaching masquerading as christian. I do not believe that homosexuality or abortion or fornication or nontraditional forms of marriage should be accepted as ok in any Christian church - in fact, I am not sure if I believe divorced people should ever remarry - I know I will never do it. Finally, I am not ecumenical when it comes to nontrinitarian belief systems.

That was my conservative message of the day.
 

layhoma

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Layhoma - did your pastor respond? I would have felt the same way you did. Surprisingly to many here, I tend to be traditional when it comes to church services and doctrine. Obviously I interpret scripture using a wider lens than most people here, but I do believe that scripture is inspired by God and everything in scripture is supposed to be there. I left the Presbyterian Church because it is too liberal. I do not like the idea of meeting together to experiment with Rekki or Buddhist teaching masquerading as christian. I do not believe that homosexuality or abortion or fornication or nontraditional forms of marriage should be accepted as ok in any Christian church - in fact, I am not sure if I believe divorced people should ever remarry - I know I will never do it. Finally, I am not ecumenical when it comes to nontrinitarian belief systems.

That was my conservative message of the day.

Aspen:

I didn't expect people would take the time to read my lengthy post. I guess I owe it to everyone who wanted to know the full response from my Pastor. Bear in mind I am not finger pointing my Shepard for any wrongdoings but just sharing it because I know this would benefit those that may encounter similar cases in their churches. Know also that my pastor never had any previous engagements with our guest so he was just experimenting I supposed. Names changed for anonymity purpose.

Dear Jennie,

Sorry for my slow response, but I did want to collect my thoughts and talk to some of the other participants in the service about their impressions. There were 72 people there, about 15 or so left. I feel badly that we did not have a chance to preview the presentation and that we did not clearly describe the service in advance. I was out of town the week before and there was a mix-up. We will never do anything like this again and I appreciate your concerns.

Having said that, people I greatly respect spiritually thought the whole service was quite a stretching experience. There were about 20 people who were brand new, and they were quite excited because of the Bono and the U2 (and to be honest the Dutch) connection. The service left me rather conflicted but most of those conflicts were resolved by his very clear sermon that exalted Jesus Christ. Some of our more charismatic members really liked it, which surprised me. I thought they would respond as the leader you mentioned in another church.

He was a European pastor trying to relate to an Eastern audience and he overdid it with the ying/yang. The Karma thing was Bono attacking Karma and he was very clear that Karma was wrong and the Christian view of God’s grace shatters the false concept of karma. But again, I don’t think know enough about the concept of karma to bring it into a worship service. Billy Graham and other Christians have commended Bono and he speaks at seminaries and Christian schools all over for bringing Christ into his lyrics. Bono is claimed as a hero by Christians of all nationalities but he is a wild guy.

Union is a church that sometimes makes mistakes. I have had conversations with people who feel that something that has happened at Union that was to them spiritually unhelpful. I have had conversations with people who have come from what I think are good churches in town but did things that seem spiritually abusive. In some ways we are a refuge where people can grow in their faith with people who don’t always agree with them. One of the women there Sunday night was a militant atheist a year ago who has come to faith because she has met people at Union who have helped her answer some of her intellectual questions. A friend of hers talked to me yesterday and said we gave her the space and safety to ask some hard questions and did not judge her.

Again, I am sorry for the hurt this has caused and the last thing I want is to cause brothers and sisters to stumble. And I am confident that God uses even mistakes for his glory.

Thank you for your wise and Godly words.
 

Angelina

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So how does one discern a false prophet ? Can't answer you because everyone has different tricks up their sleeves. They could start quoting scriptures on spiritual warfare but fail how to unlock the secrets of how to applying them in real life. As for I, I will look for inconsistency in one's preaching. My first sign of warning was noticing this band using an occult symbol on the evening service itinerary, second, there were many new age themes such as Karma, using strange metaphors like 'Grace is a girl' in music lyrics regardless if the name Jesus was in it as well, third, I felt no joy in his preaching, last but not least, the feeling of my spirit in distress, yearning to get out from the hall. I've been in many churches but never had I felt and hear so clear from the Holy Spirit that this is not right! Make no mistake, I did not trust my feelings but by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that I was partaking a worship that is not aiming toward the Almighty.

Very well discerned brother...God had given you a few clues in understanding of the spirit behind that service. I hope that this experience does not totally close doors to inviting other ministries to your Church...as that would be a shame. This situation could be used to strengthen your Church in an area, which it may or may not be lacking in...eg: Prayer Team, prior to the invite, leading up to and during the service...

So how does one discern a false prophet ?
In regards to personal prophecy: A prophet can only prophesy what is already known in your own heart. A clear Indicator is usually received by a check [a quickening, an unction, a prompting] in your spirit [confirming - yes, this is true or no, not true] by the Holy Spirit. :)

Shalom!!!
 

aspen

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Thanks for posting the respond from your pastor. It sounds like he is a thoughtful person who realized that things got out of hand; however, I would still be a bit concerned.
 

brodav9

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Sometimes it can be a good person who makes a mistake. I remember my prophesy mistake many years ago. Instead of saying about Jonah, in the belly of a whale, I made the mistake of saying a whale of a belly. Didn't realise having even saying that. It brought the house down, everyone was laughing histerically. I asked next to me what isa everyone laughing about? My mistake in that case kind of blessed me because many people were made happy.

We have not been given a spirit of fear, but of power ,love, and a sound mind. It is so important that we take a offer to share before the Lord. That is the only hope the N.T. church has for receiving brethren who want to share their gift. All flesh preaching profits little.
We must know the word and be like Bereans to take it home and study it to se if it is from God.
 

brodav9

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Another way of growing as a discerning is to watch for the motive. Many will buy a book by a minister when he raises a new topic. It is under my notice that the subjects are really of a new born again christian level. The new sheep are more than others wanting to be fed fresh bread. They are not taught in the churches because to be a person with a level of discernment may catch the preacher in his tricks. I like what Jesus said---- he knew man and what was in man.

Watch this---- if you have a preacher and money is involved, pray first. God will lead you. very few know they must give account if they give money to a false preacher. They are participating in their evil deeds. 2Jn. 1:11.

When we help the enemy against the kingdom by supporting them we have been poor stewards of God's money.

Sometimes it takes little to see something is wrong. I remember going to a seminar meeting and asking to play bass for one of the meetings. as it was different churches there. I was told to talk to the bass player and ask. he was angry and rude, and made me feel as though I was stupid for asking. I left him and was thinking what kind of a person is this. I was just offering to be a blessing and had played in other places the same way. Is it possible that he wasn't a Christian and others reasons for being a participant. I forgive and have no hard feelings toward him. Don't know him anyway.

Paul mentions people in Corinthians where they were not discerning the Lord's body when they took communion, some came in drunk also. They drank real wine then. The people we are around should be known by their fruits. They should be seen as having a life of love, righteousness, and good.

it is disturbing to meet people who appear fruitful and find them living a hypocritical lie when not there in church. People blame God for this and say they don't want Christ. It isn't God's fault. He cannot make people walk in righteousness and truth. It is a matter of the heart.
 

brodav9

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in Rom. 16:17 we see it saying mark them which cause divisions.

God just blessed me with a professional music sound man. He knew his stuff. the person I bought my equipment from didn't even know how to set it up. He did however tell me wrong things which could have damiaged it. The man who helped me was so good he told me he would do some things for me----no labor charge and split one long cord into two to make to cables I needed.

As I look at that from a spiritual analogy perspective, I see something very important. How much we need Christians to pay the cost of finding truth about all subjects of the bible. To be accurate and good at sharing them with others----know their stuff. New members should stay excited and do what they can---study pray, etc. Paul studued 3 years before he preached the gospel.

What is a division?? it is a false belief which is opposed to the truth. They are closed minded and will not change . They don't care for truth. Sometimes their motives are wrong and not care for God's glory.

They are like a football player who is running the wrong way towards the opponents goal. They are scoring for the devil and not God's team. Only the Holy Spirit can produce real fruit in us. Love must be genuine, if not it is a mushy false thing just to win members. God stopped a lot of false when he said one must walk the straight and narrow path. Other paths are flesh and are also called wood, hay, stubble.

We are should produce good fruit and that must be God given. fruit of the Spirit is not our fruit. it is ours only because God gives it to us. That is why it is called the fruit of the Spirit. I suppose some who cause divisions would say that fruit is not for today also.

Is winning souls bearing fruit?? No it is not fruit it is service. To serve is for one to be united with God to share his good news. It is God doing the work in the heart of a sinner, we don't win them to Christ , it is Christ working through us to win them. That is why we say Jesus saved me , not I accepted Christ. Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw --all men unto me. In prayer he says the Spirit indeed is willing but the flesh is weak.

We must come to the place where Jn. 16:13 the Spirit will guide us to all truth. Acts 20:27 the whole counil was know and declared by Paul. it is al in the N.T. we have to just find it. division is the false which tries to divide the saints. it is popular for the wicked false preachers to come in and proclaim division. Some do it to draw disciples away unto themselves for their abuse.
 

brodav9

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remember truth can be twisted. A certain minister says we should not even talk to others about things that we think are wrong in the church. Talking about things wrong in the church is differentiated by whether we think they are wrong or if they really are wrong. Even while they were speaking, they mention things like you can find fault with everything if you look for it. There is a difference in what is error or heresy. errors are mistakes. heresy of coarse can be a mistake but it is harmful also. A Shepherd is called to protect the sheep so they must be willing to hear all issues. deception works on things that are grey.

example blue green is green.---but also blue. that example was to show how we must understand that all things are not clear and visible in every case. We as humans must be tolerant and intolerant, but over the right stuff.

Without the word and the Holy Spirit's help there would be Kaos.. Churches without the Spirit are in Kaos.

answer to question---why is it when I go to church nobody shakes my hand or not talk to me. one reason is because that is the way to keep peace because people want to argue and find fault. Discernment was meant to be a gift so we can be protected and know we are going in the right direction. there is no time for foolishness and opposition to Christ and his word. It slows down the life of the body of Christ.

We are to be powerful standing supporters of the kingdom of God. He is the author of our faith as well as others. His kingdom will be built and have no spot , wrinkle, or blemish in it. Some don't care for they are out to please themselves. Sorry but the church don't need them. We can only love and pray for them.
In Moses time God opened the ground to swollow up the rebellious, today they are welcome to come and hold us up.

Woe be unto those who cause others to fall or quit. God didn't pull us out of the fire so we could push others in. We have all the power we need to hold up Moses hands, speaking spiritually there. we hold up each other. We can cause others to raise their hands in praise----just get them happy about Jesus amen.
 

brodav9

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Ethics is a must for a Christian. They will also bless them. When you know what is ethical----which is 75% or more of our new life, you can always weigh any action according to a law of ethics.
example: it was said in the past that it is wonderful if miss America is a Christian. That she wins as a testimony that God makes her win because she is a Christian.

miss America is seen world wide and not just here. Now when she gets up in front of everyone in a bathing suit tight enough to show her endowments is that ethical.
She produces the lustful glance in many men. You can see things bulging and other personal things that they don't even see. A pair of white tight pants on a woman
show more than panty lines. I see everything and have to look quickly away. I'm not trying to be difficult here. I think highly of pretty women who dress and look proper and attractively. If we look at the situation we will see other Christian women in the contest who lost and does that mean God failed them. That's the thing the world thinks because they always look for faults. That there issue shows that we must put away sin to attract the world to the holy Lamb.

There are many,many other ethics but they fall into just a few topic headings. I will put them soon in my blog. my memo system will help you see and remember them. It is a issue between God and man and not people what ethics apply. We must give account to God alone. That protects us from legalists and debaters.
 

martinlawrencescott

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I like hearing what you have to say Brodav. Would you please go to my study on deuteronomy 21:1-9 and tell me what you have to say? I wasn't sure if we were on the same page when you gave us your parable. There are certain issues on Christ and attonement that I believe are being revealed as we speak. I have a feeling as wierd as this sounds that there is going to be a second attonement, having to do specifically with the death of Christ.
 

brodav9

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sorry to keep you waiting. Where may I find your Deut. study? To answer your question on atonement. There is only one atonement. Yom Kippur is the Jewish atonement, but it is no longer in effect. In Heb. 9:13 and 10:4 we see this where the O.T. way is done away in Christ.
Thank you for your kind words and all my reason for forums is based on loving other people, even the brethren. God bless.

Your right. Jesus is not the heifer ever only a lamb. it is stated in the end time a heifer that is perfect shall be offered. The Jews have never seen a perfect heifer until recent years. it was said it had one slight mark, but may be good. It was to soon anyway and later that perfect one will come. The cities of refuge refer to us in the shadow. Lk.4 Jesus came to be our refuge and haven of rest by faith. We run to him for protection and forgiveness.

Very important to be careful of Messianic Jews. They have a wonderful understanding of the bible but come short in a few areas.
Many speak of being filled with the Spirit but deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Just to make you think, a axe is a strong occult symbol also. You can easily find that through web searching. Note no mention in Eph.6 armor. No offence implied here my brother.