Hydroplate Theory

[manumuskin]

Does anyone here follow this theory?It can be read about athttp://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/index.htmlThe whole book is free online or you can order a hardbound copy which is well worth the price.This theory explains how the flood is responsible for earths present geology and the ice ages and many other phenomena that the uniformitarians can't explain or explain in a way bordering on rediculous.there is a five minute video on site that will give a quick overview of the theory and a more in depth series of videos by pastor kevin lea found herehttp://6000yearstory.ning.com/Hoping to discuss the theory here with anyone interested.At last a coherent creationist theory to answer the darwinists.Al

 

[Christina]

No I don't follow it .... The Bible never says the earth is 6000 years old ... This argument of the age of earth is IMHO a childish argument of men ... Gods Word is what we should be paying attention to and he foretold us all things .... Yet men continue on with their petty little debate.... Bible students that claim the earth is 6000 years old do so for one reason they are hung up on the idea if they accept an old earth they must also accept Darwin's Evolution ... Nothing could be further from the truth .... Evolution requires an interrupted period of time of millions of years ..... Gods own Words disprove this if one listens to God in proper context he himself proves that Evolution can not be possible the very verses men misinterpret are the ones that disprove Evolution ... There was no uninterrupted period of time ....God created the earth we do not know when its not told to us ...At some point after he created it ....The earth BECAME VOID he destroyed all that was here several verses show us this .... The earth is billions of years old ....Adam is 6000 years old but Adam is not the earth Now some man can come up with a theory about the flood explaining earth but its just a theory ...Does it explain how the light from stars millions of years away gets here ? or do we need to also claim the speed of light is wrong? Must we as Christians behave like children to claim all science is wrong rather than admit we misinterpreted scripture? That there is no debate about the age of the earth between religion and science ..And there is no uninterrupted period of time to make Evolution possible as the Darwin crowd uses as the very basis for their theory ...Lets hear God and leave the debate to those men lost in their own opinions ..Pay attention God is going to disclose a hidden Mystery to us 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: The heavens and the earth were of Old 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: The world that then was perished (and it became void) 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. The heavens and the earth, which are now (this rules out Noah flood as it had nothing to do with the heavens) are going to destroyed by fire ..... And then again God will make a New heaven and a new earth ... He did it before and he will do it again ...No big step for God only for the small minds of men .... Lets look at a another interpretation that is older and closer to the manuscripts 5 But it is hid from them willing this thing, that heavens were before, and the earth of water was standing by water, by God's word [that heavens were first, and the earth of water and by water being, or standing, together by God's word]; 6 by which [things] that same world cleansed, then by water perished. 7 But the heavens that now be, and the earth, be kept by the same word, and be reserved to fire into the day of doom and perdition of wicked men. [Forsooth the heavens that now be, and the earth, by the same word put again, be kept to fire into the day of doom and perdition of unpious men.] These verses disprove Evolution The very theory of Evolution depends on one basic fact .... That million of years had to be continuous and uninterrupted .... Gods word proves this was not the case ... But men would rather assume this is Noah's flood witch was never hid never a mystery ...And continue in their childish debates We have another study should you be interestedhttp://www.christianityboard.com/showthread.php?t=71

 

[Martin W.]

Does anyone here follow this theory?It can be read about athttp://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/index.htmlThe whole book is free online or you can order a hardbound copy which is well worth the price.This theory explains how the flood is responsible for earths present geology and the ice ages and many other phenomena that the uniformitarians can't explain or explain in a way bordering on rediculous.there is a five minute video on site that will give a quick overview of the theory and a more in depth series of videos by pastor kevin lea found herehttp://6000yearstory.ning.com/Hoping to discuss the theory here with anyone interested.At last a coherent creationist theory to answer the darwinists.Al

Thanks Al.I have always felt that good science always fit well with young earth creation.I appreciate the link to the online book and have read about 30 pages so far.Talk laterMartin W.

 

[manumuskin]

I see we have a gap theorist above.been there, done that.I'm just brash enough now to believe that God might actually be able to be taken at his word and when he gives us geneaologies that go back 4000 years from Jesus he might have done that for a reason,so that we would have a timeline to go by and wouldn't have to contrive silly theories about billions of years which is nothing but an excuse for evolutionists who will claim that anything can happen on it's own given enough time which is a bunch of crap also.The Hydroplate theory actually does account for a worldwide flood and that verse about replenishing the earth when gone back to the hebrew just means "to fill" the earth not to re fill it.Nice to see your going to read it Martin before criticsizing it.I can critiscize the gap theory because i actually used to believe it.will be waiting your judgement call.Al

 

[manumuskin]

[Now some man can come up with a theory about the flood explaining earth but its just a theory ...Does it explain how the light from stars millions of years away gets here ? or do we need to also claim the speed of light is wrong? Must we as Christians behave like children to claim all science is wrong rather than admit we misinterpreted scripture? That there is no debate about the age of the earth between religion and science ..And there is no uninterrupted period of time to make Evolution possible as the Darwin crowd uses as the very basis for their theory ...Lets hear God and leave the debate to those men lost in their own opinions ..Pay attention God is going to disclose a hidden Mystery to us THE SPEED OF LIGHT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW LONG IT ACTUALLY TOOK TO GET HERE BECAUSE WHEN gOD CREATED THE HEAVENS HE CREATED LIGHT AS WELL AND WHEN HE STRETCHED THEM OUT HE STRETCHED THE LIGHT WITH THE REST.THATS WHY IT'S REDSHIFTED,BECAUSE IT IS STRETCHED NOT BECAUSE IT IS RUSHING AWAY FROM US IN ALL DIRECTIONS(WHICH IT IS TOO) BUT BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY STRETCHED AND HENCE HAS BEEN IN ALL THE UNIVERSE FROM THE BEGINNING. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: The heavens and the earth were of Old 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: The world that then was perished (and it became void)THIS REFERS TO THE FLOOD,NOT SOMETHING BEFORE IT 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. The heavens and the earth, which are now (this rules out Noah flood as it had nothing to do with the heavens) are going to destroyed by fire ..... And then again God will make a New heaven and a new earth ... He did it before and he will do it again ...No big step for God only for the small minds of men .... Lets look at a another interpretation that is older and closer to the manuscripts 5 But it is hid from them willing this thing, that heavens were before, and the earth of water was standing by water, by God's word [that heavens were first, and the earth of water and by water being, or standing, together by God's word]; 6 by which [things] that same world cleansed, then by water perished. 7 But the heavens that now be, and the earth, be kept by the same word, and be reserved to fire into the day of doom and perdition of wicked men. [Forsooth the heavens that now be, and the earth, by the same word put again, be kept to fire into the day of doom and perdition of unpious men.] These verses disprove Evolution The very theory of Evolution depends on one basic fact .... That million of years had to be continuous and uninterrupted .... Gods word proves this was not the case ... But men would rather assume this is Noah's flood witch was never hid never a mystery ...And continue in their childish debates We have another study should you be interestedhttp://www.christianityboard.com/showthread.php?t=71[/QUOTE]

 

[manumuskin]

the heavens were of old, and the earth [/B]standing out of the water and in the water: The heavens and the earth were of Old 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: The world that then was perished (and it became void) 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. The heavens and the earth, which are now (this rules out Noah flood as it had nothing to do with the heavens) are going to destroyed by fire ..... And then again God will make a New heaven and a new earth ... He did it before and he will do it again ...No big step for God only for the small minds of men .... Lets look at a another interpretation that is older and closer to the manuscripts 5 But it is hid from them willing this thing, that heavens were before, and the earth of water was standing by water, by God's word [that heavens were first, and the earth of water and by water being, or standing, together by God's word]; 6 by which [things] that same world cleansed, then by water perished. 7 But the heavens that now be, and the earth, be kept by the same word, and be reserved to fire into the day of doom and perdition of wicked men. [Forsooth the heavens that now be, and the earth, by the same word put again, be kept to fire into the day of doom and perdition of unpious men.] These verses disprove Evolution The very theory of Evolution depends on one basic fact .... That million of years had to be continuous and uninterrupted .... Gods word proves this was not the case ... But men would rather assume this is Noah's flood witch was never hid never a mystery ...And continue in their childish debates We have another study should you be interestedhttp://www.christianityboard.com/showthread.php?t=71

I HADN'T GOT TO THAT STUDY YET BUT HAD SEEN IT.NOW THAT i'VE LOOKED AT IT I OF COURSE DON'T BY IT.GAP THEORY THROUGH AND THROUGH AND i'M NOT GOING BACK THERE.aL

 

[HammerStone]

Not interested in young earth, sorry.I hold in my hand right now an artifact that dates back 9,000 years. I picked it up myself, removed it from the ground, and had it dated. That alone debunks this absurd exegetical notion that the Earth is 6,000 or so years old.I have many problems with modern science. I have many problems with people who selectively take data to fit their own biased concepts. I tend not to listen to those people, because they never really say much worth anything. Instead, those people want to push their theories. They like to cause strife and seek divisions.I'm definitely not interested in that. The entire theory is based off calculating the genealogy of Adam which does come to roughly 6,000 years. However, that remains completely ignorant of what is stated in the verses prior to these that are spoken with the exact same authority. God did not create this world to deceive some into believing the Earth is older than it is. God doesn't deceive, that's the hallmark of the other guy.

 

[Christina]

or[/I] standing, together by God's word]; 6 by which [things] that same world cleansed, then by water perished. 7 But the heavens that now be, and the earth, be kept by the same word, and be reserved to fire into the day of doom and perdition of wicked men. [Forsooth the heavens that now be, and the earth, by the same word put again, be kept to fire into the day of doom and perdition of unpious men.] These verses disprove Evolution The very theory of Evolution depends on one basic fact .... That million of years had to be continuous and uninterrupted .... Gods word proves this was not the case ... But men would rather assume this is Noah's flood witch was never hid never a mystery ...And continue in their childish debates We have another study should you be interestedhttp://www.christianityboard.com/showthread.php?t=71

[/QUOTE] Oh really the speed of light has nothing to do with it [SIZE=+1][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Supernova 1987A proves the speed of light has been constant for 170,000 years.[/SIZE] If the speed of light has changed, then 1. the rates of radioactive decay will also have changed. 2. the energy of radiation emitted by an atom will change. In 1987 a star in the Large Magellanic Cloud exploded. Or rather, the light from the explosion reached earth. Nine months later astronomers discovered a ring of gas with a diameter of 1.37 light years around the former star. They also discovered the characteristic gamma ray emission of Co-57 and Co-56. These gamma rays had the same energy that we observe in an earth laboratory. This means that the speed of light was the same as it is today when the star exploded. Theoretical models of a supernova said that the decay of radioactive Co-56 and Co-57 would power the light given off by the supernova gases. The light curve has decayed at precisely the half-life as we measure in our labs for Co-56 and Co-57. This further confirms that the speed of light was the same as today when the star exploded. The time it took the light to travel from the supernova to the ring allows us to measure the size of the gas ring shown above. Knowing this and the angular size of the ring as seen in a telescope gives us a distance of 170,000 light years to the star. Thus, since the distance to the supernova can be trigonometrically determined, the speed of light has been constant for the past 170,000 years. Chilish argument of men I notice you have no scripture and base your entire conclusion on one theroy of a man Another man has a differnt theroy so the christain is left to chose one man over the other or claim all science is wrong except the one man they chose to believe ...I honestly dont care which man anyone choose to believe ... I will believe God Who never says the earth is 6000 years old scripture says differnt ... When one stops trying to read traditoions of men into it.

 

[manumuskin]

and i suppose tyou were there 9000 tears ago when this artifact was formed???gee do i remember asking for an arguement at the beginning of this thread? No, I just remember asking if their was anyone here who followed the hydroplate theory.so far I'v only found one person who is not too narrow minded to read it.Everyone else seems to want to suck up to the darwinist drivel that passes for (psuedo) science.The flood trashed any dating methods you may be relying on since none of those rocks were even around that long ago.Didn't paul say something about those who would like to remove God from their knowledge? Or maybe it was Peter but it's there anyway.thats all this is about is the lie of darwinism claiming the earth was so old that evolution would be possible.You take your theory and try to make the facts support it,some people just love to argue,I've argued this with my best friend for the past 28 years and I'm worn out.he is an aetheist,darwinist who spouts the same old earth crap you guys are.I'haven't changed him and he hasn't changed me and I fear all three of us here will soon enough come to the same conclusions about each other only the funny part is i take it you two actually claim to believe the word of God supports your conclusions.At least my Bud is not hypocritical enough to resort to a God he doesn't believe in to back him up.Al

 

[Christina]

[quote name='manumuskin;74141]and i suppose tyou were there 9000 tears ago when this artifact was formed???gee do i remember asking for an arguement at the beginning of this thread? No' date=' I just remember asking if their was anyone here who followed the hydroplate theory.so far I'v only found one person who is not too narrow minded to read it.Everyone else seems to want to suck up to the darwinist drivel that passes for (psuedo) science.The flood trashed any dating methods you may be relying on since none of those rocks were even around that long ago.Didn't paul say something about those who would like to remove God from their knowledge? Or maybe it was Peter but it's there anyway.thats all this is about is the lie of darwinism claiming the earth was so old that evolution would be possible.You take your theory and try to make the facts support it,some people just love to argue,I've argued this with my best friend for the past 28 years and I'm worn out.he is an aetheist,darwinist who spouts the same old earth crap you guys are.I'haven't changed him and he hasn't changed me and I fear all three of us here will soon enough come to the same conclusions about each other only the funny part is i take it you two actually claim to believe the word of God supports your conclusions.At least my Bud is not hypocritical enough to resort to a God he doesn't believe in to back him up.Al[/QUOTE'] I see so you have no answers all science is then wrong ...So you fall back on insults and throwing out the dreaded Darwin word somehow thinking that proves you right ..... I have already said and showed you Gods Word disproves Darwin but what do you care what God says ... Im Glad you found all your answers in a mans theroy your certanily not alone. Sorry if you came to a Bible study site to push your book of men and we argue back with Gods Word an your insulted......... 11Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: 12And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

 

[Martin W.]

AlWalt Brown has done an excellent job presenting his case and I appreciate him making his book available online for free. Every christian should consider his science. I am also going to order the hardcopy of his book.I have always leaned toward a young earth with a worldwide flood and Walt provides ample evidence of this possibility. But I would like to make it clear to everybody that my foundations come from the Genesis record , the flood of Noah , and the words of Jesus on these subjects. If they are not accurate , we are all in trouble.I still do not have an opinion on the hydroplate theory Al. I have skimmed thru it and want to re-read it again carefully before commenting.I got sidelined reading about the life and background of Dr Brown ..... that alone was very interesting.Talk laterMartin W.

 

[Christina]

So every Christian should take this mans word over Gods? Gen.1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. So if you say the earth is 6000 years old from this verse then so must the heavens be you can not have it both ways ..If one is old or young they must both be ..so if you claim a young earth there is only one logical conclusion the heavens are also young therefore as I said, one must then accept all science and all scientists are wrong......... except this theory and one man is right ... The speed of light must then also be wrong and all physics wrong all astronomy wrong everything about the heavens and earth is wrong ? Supernova 1987A proves the speed of light has been constant for 170,000 years. . In 1987 a star in the Large Magellanic Cloud exploded. Or rather, the light from the explosion reached earth. Nine months later astronomers discovered a ring of gas with a diameter of 1.37 light years around the former star. They also discovered the characteristic gamma ray emission of Co-57 and Co-56. These gamma rays had the same energy that we observe in an earth laboratory. This means that the speed of light was the same as it is today when the star exploded. Thus, since the distance to the supernova can be trigonometrically determined, the speed of light has been constant for the past 170,000 years. So we are to throw out all common sense, all science, all Gods Word and every Christian should read a theory of a man ? Thanks but,No thanks....

 

[Martin W.]

So every Christian should take this mans word over Gods?

Are you asking us to only accept your doctrines to the exclusion of all others?Have you ever read where God stated he created the heavens , light , stars and starlight?Have you ever read the many times God states he stretched out the heavens?Do you think it is possible that God could have stretched out the heavens and the stars in an instant ..... and to our measurements they look like billions of light years away?Do you think Jesus could create wine out of water in an instant ..... even though we know it takes a lot longer? Or do you require a gap theory to explain the wine making?Would it really bother you if the earth was indeed young? If so why?I would be very interested to compare your credentials with those of Dr. Walt Brown. That way , if I was to follow the teachings of men , I would know who best to follow.Many thanks for your considerationMartin WJust want to make sure I have not misunderstood you.

 

[Christina]

Well it only bothers me for one reason God never says it men do I have shown scripture to back me up and theres more should one ever chose to listen to God over men .... So you think God streched out the heavens and it only appears its light years away I could say the same perhaps he created the earth in an instant an made it appear to be billions of years old... only problem is these are guess's and never said in fact God says differnt .... I dont mind what you believe but this is a Bible study site therefore I am stating what Gods Word says and I really do not care what men or their traditions say .... You are free to think whatever you want but the differance is with us God never states how old the World is ..He does state it was before, it is now, and it will be again. That there is nothong new under the sun what was will be ...

 

[Christina]

By the way Martain why is it so important for you to belive the earth is young ?? When Gods very words disproves any evolution theroys ...why then is it you must have a young earth ...

 

[Martin W.]

I have a question for those who think we have have a 6,000,000,000 year old earth that can be proven by geological study.Where do you find the evidence of a worldwide flood within the strata? The huge catastrophe of a global flood would certainly leave a huge marker in the strata layers. To get around the problem you must relegate the Genesis Creation record to mythology , The flood of Noah to mythology , the words of Jesus about the flood to mythology.Once you have got rid of the requirement of evidence of a flood within the layers of strata , you will have no further problems.At that point you are a secular geologist. A secular geologist has never been qualified to debate the methods used by The Creator. You are on the wrong forum.The creation scientist will see evidence of a world wide flood as the possible cause of much of the geological layers. And he does not have to violate scientific laws to do so. Science started out because Christian men were curious about methods used by The Creator . Very few people use this approach in modern day. When they do they stick out like a sore thumb and are ridiculed from all sides including many Christians.Who's side are you on?

 

[Christina]

I dont think you understand an old earth perhaps that why you need to believe a young earth ... An old earth has nothing to do with Noahs flood ... God created the earth lets say 6 billion years ago (for argument sake only )....He then made it void .... the hebrew says it became void ..(something that does not exsist can not become something else) It never went away the earth became void of anything for perhaps millions of years disproving evolution the earth became void (the before) Then God said let there be light this was the first day of creation of this age (the now ) this age is now this age is only some 6000 years and happens exactly how scripture says including the flood its the age the now age thats 6000 years old not the earth itself And there will be a 3rd age in the future that will last for eteranity he did it before he will do it again as you say no big thing for God .... That is the hid thing the mystery he tells us about in 2 Peter ....

 

[Martin W.]

By the way Martain why is it so important for you to belive the earth is young ?? When Gods very words disproves any evolution theroys ...why then is it you must have a young earth ...

I do not require a young earth. It really would not matter to me except the brief information given to us in the bible tends to indicate a young earth and a recent worldwide flood.It is the secular world who require an old earth. We do not. Nor do we have an explanation how he created Adam & Eve in a very short time and they were adults. We either have faith in the original short Genesis record , or we put our faith in the secular theory that requires billions of years for nothing to become everything.This same Creator and his Son claim some instant in the future he will resurrect the dead with new bodies , that is just as hard to grasp as the fact he created our world in 6 days.None of us should be apologists for A Creator who can get things done quickly. None of us should require he take billions of years to do anything. Yet we do.And we do so , not to please ourselves , not to please our Creator , but to please the secular world around us. Think about it.

 

[Christina]

The secular world requires an uninterrupted billions year old earth But God says he made it become void therefore nothing existed for an unknown period of time So the secular world is wrong .... But equally wrong are the religions who insist on a young world they have as little if not less proof than the secular world ... Do you not see so both sides of this men's argument is wrong which is why they still argue they are both wrong .... Neither side listens to God they are to busy trying to disprove each other .... Only God is right ....Old earth made voidnew(young) age God says there was an age before No flesh man existed just some creatures we call dinosaurs, some ape creatures we call neanderthal ...(who by the latest research have no human DNA) because they were not men but creatures just as we always knew .... Then God made the earth void ...empty ..... for how long we are not told .... then he created the now age God did not create flesh man until the 6th day of creation ... Which is why no missing link will ever be found it doesnt exist..... there was a void earth between ape like neanderthal creatures/dinosaurs ...... and the first day of our creation week (the now age)

 

[manumuskin]

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the theory.I see your a retired detective so you should be good at weeding out the chaff so to speak.I am no scientist but am of a scientific mind and the theory as a whole seems sound to me if of course the starting assumptions are correct.I'm sure there are errors in a theory so encompassing but it does seem to explain much.al