I and The Father are One

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ByGraceThroughFaith

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ego kai ho patros hen hesmen” (John 10:30). Which literally translated reads: “I and the Father, one we are”.

Is Jesus here speaking only of “unity of will and purpose” with The Father, as some suppose? That the Greek “hen”, does have this meaning, is clear from the Prayer of Jesus in John chapter 17, where He says, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”. Here Jesus is speaking of the “unity” of believers, with themselves, and in their relation to the Lord, as He and His Father “one”. And the Apostle Paul tells the Philipian Church, “Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind” The precise meaning must be determined from the context where the word is being used.

We must look at the entire context in which Jesus uses the words: “ego kai ho patros hen hesmen”. In verse 28 Jesus says, "and I give them eternal life, and in no wise shall they perish forever" (Greek text). John 1:4 informs us the Jesus is the “source” of life, “in Him was life”. There is another reading of this verse, which is probably the original. Instead of “ζωὴ ἦν”, (was life, in the imperfect tense); we have “ζωὴ ἐστιν” (is life, the present, continuance tense). Both are from around the 2nd century A.D. The use of the “imperfect” tense in the Greek, does not always speak of “past action”, as in our English “was”, this can be misleading. In the Greek, it does also have the meaning of, “an incomplete action”, one that is still in its course, and not yet completed. It is like saying, was/is. In Acts 3:15, Jesus is called the "archegos of life" (Prince, KJV). The meaning is, “first cause, originator, author”, of all life. It is as the “Author” of all life, that Jesus is able to “give eternal life” to all those who believe in Him for their salvation. This would be impossible if Jesus Himself is not Almighty God, but, as some suppose, a mere created being! Jesus then goes on to say in this verse, “And not anyone shall snatch them out of My hand”. The life of the believer is completely “secure” in the Protective Power of the Lord Jesus Christ. These words spoken by Jesus here, are spoken by Yahweh of His People in Deuteronomy, “See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.” (32:39). Again, in the Prophet Isaiah we read, “Also henceforth I am He; there is none who can deliver from my hand; I work, and who can turn it back?” (43:13). It is very clear from what Jesus says in John 10:28, and what we read from what Yahweh says in these passages in the Old Testament, that He means Absolute Power and Protection and Authority. Revelation 3:7, speaks of just this of Jesus, “...Who opens and no one will shut, Who shuts and no one opens.”. Further to this, in John 10:29, Jesus goes on to say, "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand"

That the Father was “greater” than Jesus Christ during His Incarnation, is evident from a few passages (Luke 2:52, 24:26; John 5:19, 14:28, 17:5; Philippians 2:5-11; Hebrews 2: 7, 9, etc). However, this “greatness” is not in the Essential Nature in the Godhead, where the Three Persons are 100% coequal.

Verse 30 which follows on from this, is where Jesus speaks of His “Essential Unity” with His father.

The Greek here is very important. Jesus as the speaker, “I”, distinguishes Himself from “THE Father”, where the definite article in the Greek, “ho [the]” is used with “pater [Father]”. That the Father and Son are NOT one and the same PERSON, is evident from the use of the masculine plural, “hesmen [WE are]”, which is impossible if only ONE PERSON was meant. Then, we have the neuter singular, “hen [one]”, which again shows that ONE PERSON cannot be meant, which would have required the masculine “heis”, which is not the case. The use of the neuter singular “hen”, is to show the “UNITY” of the ESSENCE or NATURE, of God the Father and God the Son.

The Jews perfectly understood what Jesus meant, as they again took up stones to kill Him (verse 31). And, when Jesus asks them why they wanted to stone Him, they replied: “The Jews answered Him, saying, We do not stone You concerning a good work, but concerning blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself God.”. The Jews heard what Jesus said in these verses, and they understood that He was here claiming to be God. The meaning of verse 10 to these Jews, was more than simply a “unity of will and purpose”, because, as God's Representative on earth (which is what Jesus says in verses 34-36), Jesus here actually says that He was also of the same, “Authority and Power” of God. The Jews in the Old Testament, when they had their judges, who administrated on behalf of the Lord, are called “gods”, as in “representing” God on earth. Jesus, as THE Son of God, and Himself God, has a Higher Authority when on earth. This is also understood in chapter 5 of John's Gospel, when Jesus heals a man on the Sabbath Day, and the Jews wanted to kill Him for doing this (16). Jesus responds to their criticism, by saying, “But Jesus answered them, My Father works until now, and I work”. That He was not working on His own on the Sabbath, but His own Father (ο πατηρ μου), was also working with Him, on the Sabbath Day! These words enraged the Jews, who responded, “Because of this, therefore, the Jews were seeking the more to kill Him, for not only did He break the sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal to God”. Note that Jesus never objected to the accusations that the Jews made against Him, when they said that He “claimed” to be equal to the Father, and therefore God. If, as some suppose, that Jesus is no more than a “Good Teacher”, or, One Who merely, like the Prophets of the Old Testament, were no more than God’s Representative on earth, as the OT judges and Prophets were, then we can be very sure, that Jesus would have corrected their mistakes. This He never does, because He IS Almighty God.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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That is excellent whether you copied it from someone or it is your own exegesis. If it is the later, you must be a Pastor, not that this scholarly work shouldn't be shared on a forum like this, it's just that I don't see it. Normally we get the opinions from average lay people like myself. Most Pastors are too busy to devote time to the internet. Their service is hands-on personal with their congregation.
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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That is excellent whether you copied it from someone or it is your own exegesis. If it is the later, you must be a Pastor, not that this scholarly work shouldn't be shared on a forum like this, it's just that I don't see it. Normally we get the opinions from average lay people like myself. Most Pastors are too busy to devote time to the internet. Their service is hands-on personal with their congregation.

Thanks. All these studies are my own work over the past almost 40 years. I have always had an interest in the Holy Trinity which I find very much neglected and often times too shallow
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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Thanks. All these studies are my own work over the past almost 40 years. I have always had an interest in the Holy Trinity which I find very much neglected and often times too shallow
So you didn't go to school to learn Greek and how to execute scriptures? Or you just collected the exegesis morsels over the years? I look stuff up in the Greek, use Strongs Concordance sometimes but mainly rely on spiritual discernment.
Anyways that particular post could have been used to address some of these non-trinitarians on this forum. We try to give them scriptures and the meanings but it still isn't enough.
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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So you didn't go to school to learn Greek and how to execute scriptures? Or you just collected the exegesis morsels over the years? I look stuff up in the Greek, use Strongs Concordance sometimes but mainly rely on spiritual discernment.
Anyways that particular post could have been used to address some of these non-trinitarians on this forum. We try to give them scriptures and the meanings but it still isn't enough.

My Greek is self taught with the Lord's help and I have big collection of Greek New Testaments, grammars, lexicons and exegetical commentaries.
 

marks

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Is Jesus here speaking only of “unity of will and purpose” with The Father, as some suppose? That the Greek “hen”, does have this meaning, is clear from the Prayer of Jesus in John chapter 17, where He says, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”. Here Jesus is speaking of the “unity” of believers, with themselves, and in their relation to the Lord, as He and His Father “one”.

I agree with the others, an excellent presentation!

I think there is a little more in unity amongst believers though than in will and purpose, but that we are also made one as Jesus is one with the Father. I have to confess I often try to write with brevity to those who appear to know the Scriptures, but if you wish more explanation simply let me know.

I believe we are joined to God to share His life, so that as He lives eternally we come to share that, and in sharing His life with Him, this also means we are joined to each other by the same Spirit Who has joined to us.

That they may be one in us, members one of another, members of His body.

Much love!
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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I agree with the others, an excellent presentation!

I think there is a little more in unity amongst believers though than in will and purpose, but that we are also made one as Jesus is one with the Father. I have to confess I often try to write with brevity to those who appear to know the Scriptures, but if you wish more explanation simply let me know.

I believe we are joined to God to share His life, so that as He lives eternally we come to share that, and in sharing His life with Him, this also means we are joined to each other by the same Spirit Who has joined to us.

That they may be one in us, members one of another, members of His body.

Much love!

The unity between the Persons in the Godhead is essential. The unity between believers is not
 
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marks

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The unity between the Persons in the Godhead is essential. The unity between believers is not
Do we not have the same Spirit within us?

Are we not members of one another? Are we not one body?

God has done something fundamental, Jesus, the Firstborn of many brothers.

Much love!
 

Ronald David Bruno

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The unity between the Persons in the Godhead is essential. The unity between believers is not
That is a very good point. It makes me laugh thinking about the unity of Christians sometimes in forums, debating, arguing, calling each other names, even implying the other fella must not be saved since they can't discern the scriptures like they do - lol. And then you have the Catholics on one side and the Protestants on the another and within the Protestants, dozens of denominations, non-denominational, non-trinitarian and sometimes warring against and killing each other in the name of Jesus - a fine display of unity.
I guess we can say the Body of Christ is only spiritual, the flesh is not allowed inside?
 

Charlie24

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That is a very good point. It makes me laugh thinking about the unity of Christians sometimes in forums, debating, arguing, calling each other names, even implying the other fella must not be saved since they can't discern the scriptures like they do - lol. And then you have the Catholics on one side and the Protestants on the another and within the Protestants, dozens of denominations, non-denominational, non-trinitarian and sometimes warring against and killing each other in the name of Jesus - a fine display of unity.
I guess we can say the Body of Christ is only spiritual, the flesh is not allowed inside?

Would you include Paul into this? Is he guilty of your claims?

Acts 17:17

Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
 

Taken

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I and The Father are One
OP ^

ARE ONE. Amen!

The "Son and Father"
Did NOT "become Ajoined in Unity"...
They ARE One Lord God.


Glory to God,
Taken
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Would you include Paul into this? Is he guilty of your claims?
Well, I think the Apostles were a bit more filled with and empowered by the Holy Spirit than most of us. And also most of them lived with Jesus for three years, while completely giving up any worldly and fleshy things. This certainly made for an environment of unity.
They had their disagreements at times (when Paul rebuked Peter), but their mission was likened to a nuclear bomb - I'm just a fire-cracker.
But, don't get me wrong, I agree with scripture that says we are to be of one mind, in harmony, and we are, we do God's will with all our shortcomings and flaws. God works in us spiritually even though our flesh gets in the way.
 
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Charlie24

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Well, I think the Apostles were a bit more filled with and empowered by the Holy Spirit than most of us. And also most of them lived with Jesus for three years, while completely giving up any worldly and fleshy things. This certainly made for an environment of unity.
They had their disagreements at times (when Paul rebuked Peter), but their mission was likened to a nuclear bomb - I'm just a fire-cracker.

Paul and Barnabas had such fiery dispute that they parted ways. Talk about a fire-cracker, I believe Paul was so on fire for God that he got himself in a lot of trouble arguing at some times with the wrong folks, lol. I don't think he really cared, somewhat like some of us here.

But I'm not trying to argue about this, I'll save that for the ones who disagree with me..................... just kidding!
 

101G

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Addressing the OP,
Is Jesus here speaking only of “unity of will and purpose” with The Father, as some suppose?
well our Saviour put an end to any, “unity of will and purpose”, in this setting. John 14:7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him." (HOLD IT, NO MAN HAVE SEEN THE FATHER.... HAS THEY?) lets see,
John 14:8 "Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
John 14:9 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

HOW HAS THEY SEEN THE FATHER? answer, John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." lets back this up... John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." at the same time Jesus is on Earth, in flesh, he in heaven, the Spirit. Bingo, that right there eliminates any three person.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
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