The Father is a witness

[TonyChanYT]

Numbers 23:

19a God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind.

The LORD spoke of himself as a witness in Jeremiah 29:

23 because they have done an outrageous thing in Israel, they have committed adultery with their neighbors’ wives, and they have spoken in my name lying words that I did not command them. I am the one who knows, and I am witness, declares the LORD.

Jesus says in John 8:

17 In your Law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. 18 I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.”

testifies
μαρτυρεῖ (martyrei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 3140: To witness, bear witness, give evidence, testify, give a good report. From martus; to be a witness, i.e. Testify.

Jesus was a human person and witness. The Father is not a human person but a witness/testifier. Jesus counted it as two people or two witnesses.

When we label the Father as a person, we are no longer talking about the Father per se but an anthropomorphic version of him. When we label the Father as a witness, we are not anthropomorphizing God the Father.

See also The Holy Spirit is a witness.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Numbers 23:


The LORD spoke of himself as a witness in Jeremiah 29:


Jesus says in John 8:


testifies
μαρτυρεῖ (martyrei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 3140: To witness, bear witness, give evidence, testify, give a good report. From martus; to be a witness, i.e. Testify.

Jesus was a human person and witness. The Father is not a human person but a witness/testifier. Jesus counted it as two people or two witnesses.

When we label the Father as a person, we are no longer talking about the Father per se but an anthropomorphic version of him. When we label the Father as a witness, we are not anthropomorphizing God the Father.

See also The Holy Spirit is a witness.

If I read you right, you're saying that the Trinitarian Persons are another discussion, but the fact that there are 2 witnesses are represented as if God is represented anthropomorphically alongside Jesus as a man? It is a little difficult for me, but as far as I can tell it sounds right.

I would add this much, that God wants us to assume He is the origin of His Word. "I say, therefore you should believe." God's Word is self-verifiable and contains its own authority. Man can question all kinds of things that appear negligible to the weakened human senses. But we may not question God if He intends to state something frankly to us. He will judge us by what He speaks into our conscience.

So if God speaks a word, as such, to our conscience, and Jesus makes an identical claim, then in effect we have two separate sources of testimony, God's Word, emanating from the Father, and Jesus' Word. God's Word is emanating from the Father outside of Creation, and God's Word can likewise emanate from Jesus' mouth inside of Creation. Am I close or far off the mark?

 

[Wrangler]

When we label the Father as a person, we are no longer talking about the Father per se but an anthropomorphic version of him.

No. A person is a being. These terms are synonymous. Man is a human being. God is the Supreme Being.

From Definition of BEING
3
: a living thing
sentient beings

a mythical being

especially : PERSON

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus counted it as two people or two witnesses.

Again, no. In John 8:17-18, Jesus counted God as a person AND a witness.

 

[TonyChanYT]

If I read you right, you're saying that the Trinitarian Persons are another discussion,

Right. I am glad that you see that

but the fact that there are 2 witnesses are represented as if God is represented anthropomorphically alongside Jesus as a man?

Right.

It is a little difficult for me, but as far as I can tell it sounds right.

Great

I would add this much, that God wants us to assume He is the origin of His Word. "I say, therefore you should believe." God's Word is self-verifiable and contains its own authority. Man can question all kinds of things that appear negligible to the weakened human senses. But we may not question God if He intends to state something frankly to us. He will judge us by what He speaks into our conscience.

Right.

So if God speaks a word, as such, to our conscience, and Jesus makes an identical claim, then in effect we have two separate sources of testimony, God's Word, emanating from the Father, and Jesus' Word.

Right.

God's Word is emanating from the Father outside of Creation, and God's Word can likewise emanate from Jesus' mouth inside of Creation. Am I close or far off the mark?

So far so good. God bless you