I will raise them on the last day.

[Douggg]

No, the first resurrection speaks of the bodily resurrection of Christ alone, who is the first resurrection of the physically dead to never die again.

The "first to be resurrected" to never die again was Christ, three days after the cross. Agreed.

Differently, "the first resurrection" of Revelation 20:5 will be the great tribulation martyred saints, who will be witnesses of gospel of salvation in Christ.

The resurrection of 1Th 4:15-18 speaks of the physically dead returning with Christ as spiritual body and resurrecting the dead in Christ first, followed by those who are still alive being caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air in our changed physical body of immortal & incorruptible flesh.

1Thessalonians 4:15-18 refers to the resurrection/rapture event that will take place before the great tribulation begins.

When Jesus returns to end the great tribulation, those who took part in resurrection/rapture event earlier will return with Jesus as the bride of Christ in Revelation 19:7-14.
.

 

[David in NJ]

More on Revelation 5:10:

Revelation 5:10

• "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Answer:

And indeed the saints "DID" reign as Kings On Earth. All of them, even as we do today. The statement is already true, not "will be true in the future." We have already been made Kings and Priests unto God, and are already living and reigning on earth. And have been since the cross instituted the millennial reign of Christ's kingdom on earth. When Christ said my Kingdom is not of this world, He wasn't kidding, He was expounding on the scriptures.

Revelation 1:5-6

• "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
• And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Hath made!! Not "will make." We ALREADY reign with Him on Earth as Kings and Priests in the Kingdom as we preach the Gospel to the world!

Revelation 1:9

• "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Not will, but Christ already has a Kingdom, and has already made us reign as Kings and Priests in this Kingdom of God, right here on earth.

1st Peter 2:9

• "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

In the Greek, Royal Priesthood is the exact same as Kingdom of Priests. In fact, this verse is directly related to the Exodus 19:6, Kingdom of Priests passage. The Kingdom Of God on earth has already been established!

Luke 17:20-21

• "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
• Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

Looking for an observable or physical Kingdom of Christ on earth is futile, even as Christ so plainly illustrated! His Kingdom Does Not come in such a manner so that it can be physically observed by man, because it is a Spiritual Kingdom which is WITHIN YOU...where you are "MADE ALIVE" in Christ! You has made king and priest in His Kingdom when you were born again! An invisible kingdom more powerful and glorious than any Kingdom that could be observed on earth, ever could be!

shall reign is future = "shall"

shall​

verb​

shəl,
ˈshal

past should
shəd,
ˈshu̇d ; present singular and plural shall
Synonyms of shall
auxiliary verb
1
a
—used to express what is inevitable or seems likely to happen in the future
we shall have to be ready
we shall see
b

 

[David in NJ]

Amill believes the same thing. In the Amill Mill marriages and babies are born to replenish the existant 'old' 'original' earth. (Amill teaches we are in the Mill now, and have been for a very long time so all the saints living and dying and having babies on this old Earth yet they somehow all that is ok in their belief system but it's wrong if anyone else believes the same thing!)

wisdom prevails

 

[amigo de christo]

wisdom prevails

Regulators and contenders for the true faith mount up . We have an all out invasion of not just a harlot
BUT THE HARLOT . and that HO has come to decieve all . so preach JESUS to the final breath .

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Twinkling of an eye - you don't understand?

Are you an adult capable of having an adult discussion without just making one liner comments that aren't clear as to what you're intending to say?

You think 1 Corinthians 15:52 supports your false belief in soul sleep somehow? Explain why.

Do you understand the context of 1 Corinthians 15:52?

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So, in this passage, Paul starts out by contrasting the natural body with the spiritual body and indicates that the natural body that dies will be raised as a spiritual body. So, the context of this passage is in relation to people's bodies in particular. Then, in verse 50 Paul start talking about something that will happen in the future when believers inherit the kingdom of God. Paul makes it clear that the kingdom of God will not be inherited by people with mortal flesh and blood bodies, but rather with immortal and incorruptible bodies. So, the meaning of "in the twinkling of an eye" relates to the fact that when the last trumpet sounds the bodies of believers will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from natural, mortal bodies to spiritual, immortal bodies. So, this has nothing to do with people's souls or spirits and whether or not people are conscious after physical death. It only refers to what will happen to our bodies.

 

[David in NJ]

Amen! This is correct. When we were born again, we experienced the first resurrection in Christ—our spirit was made alive! Spiritually, we are now living forever, even though we remain in this fleshly body. This is why we are reigning with Christ right now on Earth, as kings and priests of His Kingdom, preaching the Gospel.

Philippians 1:22-23

• "But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
• For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:"

The Word of God declares that “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” Where is the Lord? Is He in the grave? In “soul sleep” like those who did not partake in the first resurrection (being born again)? In limbo? No! The Lord is in the Kingdom of Heaven, and that is where our soul immediately goes when we depart from our earthly body—to continue reigning with Him.

Many fail to realize that when Christ speaks of someone who has “died,” He is speaking from a heavenly perspective. From the human view, the person has died—but in God’s view, that person lives on! Christ is not saying, “He’s dead now, but will live later.” No—if you die, you are already alive and had been since you were born again!

Let me repeat this truth: on Earth, your fleshly body will die, but your spirit—already alive in Christ—simply transferred instantly to Heaven, continuing to reign with Him. Your spirit simply moves from the body into the presence of the Lord.

This is not the “resurrection,” because that already occurred—the first resurrection—when we were made alive in Christ while still living in the flesh. Selah!

2nd Corinthians 5:6-8

• "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
• (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
• We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

Also note that when Christ returns, any Christians who are still “alive and remain” on the earth will experience a miraculous transformation. In an instant—“in the twinkling of an eye”—their sin-cursed, fleshly bodies will be changed or removed instantly - - in that moment, their “made alive” spirit will be fully revealed in glory before the messengers from heaven coming down to gather them up to meet the Lord in the air, as the world watches, Matthew 24:31. For flesh and blood cannot enter heaven with the Lord.

1Co 15:52
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

i am with you Brother on most of your post and also give out a HalelluYAH with you.

We have been raised and seated in CHRIST - Amen
Did you know that is a MARRIAGE Contract

We rule and reign wiith CHRIST - TODAY in this aspect = His Word is Truth and the Truth sets us FREE from condemnation.
We also have been given authority(only in His Name) to tread on serpents and scorpions(symbolic) of evil spirits and temptation.

That all being TRUE = we are not reigning on earth - yet!!!

But very soon, we will = only at His 2nd Coming

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

shall reign is future = "shall"

shall​

verb​

shəl,
ˈshal

past should
shəd,
ˈshu̇d ; present singular and plural shall
Synonyms of shall
auxiliary verb
1
a
—used to express what is inevitable or seems likely to happen in the future
we shall have to be ready
we shall see
b

It is not necessarily the case that the word shall only refers to something that happens in the future.

For example, let's say, in relation to anyone who ever believes in Christ, that we shall all be born again. By making that statement am I only referring to 1) people who are born again in the future or am I talking about 2) anyone who has ever been born again, anyone who is born again now and anyone who will be born again in the future? The latter, right? So, the word shall can refer to something happening in the present and the future rather than only the future.

Look at this verse...

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Is this verse only talking about people who shall reign in life in the future "by one, Jesus Christ"? No. It's talking about anyone who was reigning up to that point in life by Jesus Christ and anyone after that who would reign in life by Jesus Christ. Yes, the word shall implies something about the future, but it can also include something in the present as well. when referring to something that is true in the present and ongoing into the future, the word "shall" can be used to describe that, just as it is in Romans 5:17. And I believe in Revelation 5:10, also.

Think about it. Revelation 5:10, like Revelation 1:6, talks about having been currently MADE kings and priests. Why would we be currently made kings and priests and not reign now? If we don't reign until the future, why wouldn't we just be made kings and priests at that point instead of now?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

i am with you Brother on most of your post and also give out a HalelluYAH with you.

We have been raised and seated in CHRIST - Amen
Did you know that is a MARRIAGE Contract

We rule and reign wiith CHRIST - TODAY in this aspect = His Word is Truth and the Truth sets us FREE from condemnation.
We also have been given authority(only in His Name) to tread on serpents and scorpions(symbolic) of evil spirits and temptation.

That all being TRUE = we are not reigning on earth - yet!!!

But very soon, we will = only at His 2nd Coming

First, you say "we rule and reign with Christ today". Then you say "we are not reigning on earth yet". That's a contradiction. Are you not located on earth? I'm pretty sure you are. So, if we are reigning with Christ today, as you said we are, then we are reigning on earth because that's where we are located. Very simple.

 

[TribulationSigns]

shall reign is future = "shall"

Sigh....

Read again:

Revelation 5:10

• "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

From the moment every Saint were born again, they were made king and priest in the Kingdom of God and they, every one of them, shall reign on Earth from the day they were born again. Not waiting for kingdom to come in the future. Do you realize that not everyone were born again at the same time, do you?

Now, Jerusalem "IS" the New Testament Church and the Kings of the earth are ruled over by her. So actually, that's yet another of many proofs that this Mystery Babylon is in fact Jerusalem. Because the Holy City Jerusalem from God is the reigning power over the kings of the earth. And as representation of the city of the great King, the Church is the New Testament Holy City. I guess you know because Christ came as Priest and reigns as King, the Church is ruled over by Him and reign as kings with Him. Why? Because they are His representatives on earth. Not in the future. Right NOW! So yes, Jerusalem is the reigning power over all the kings of the earth. You have to understand that this body, this great city, is a symbol of Christ who reigns over the kings.

Revelation 5:10

• "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

When will we (as kings) reign on the earth? The unpalatable answer (in some quarters) is that we reign as kings on earth NOW! ...RIGHT NOW! We (the Church) "ARE" the kings of the earth. We are those kings who were ruled over by this great Holy city. Because the Church is the body of Christ on earth. The Church has been given power over the enemy, and that power is not abrogated in the Church until Satan is loosed. As Christ is King of kings. Which means he reigns over US as HIS kings of the earth!

Revelation 1:5-6

• "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
• And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Not later? Not in the future. RIGHT NOW! When we were washed from our sins! When we were born again! Selah!
There we have our New Testament declaration of who the kings of the earth really are. Christ is the Prince (ruler) of the Kings of the earth, and clearly He has made us (the Church) these kings of the Earth whom He reigns over. So Revelation saying the kings of the earth are those of the Church, should be interpreted "consistently" that way. Not kings of the earth meaning several different things. And it illustrates that they are the Church, and Christ reigns over them as their Prince (Ruler). Prince of the Kings of the earth. In that context of Revelation, Kings of the earth clearly refer to members of the Church, His servants. Nothing new there. The Church is this Great City.

Isaiah 62:12

• "And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken."

 

[Hiddenthings]

Are you an adult capable of having an adult discussion without just making one liner comments that aren't clear as to what you're intending to say?

You think 1 Corinthians 15:52 supports your false belief in soul sleep somehow? Explain why.

Do you understand the context of 1 Corinthians 15:52?

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So, in this passage, Paul starts out by contrasting the natural body with the spiritual body and indicates that the natural body that dies will be raised as a spiritual body. So, the context of this passage is in relation to people's bodies in particular. Then, in verse 50 Paul start talking about something that will happen in the future when believers inherit the kingdom of God. Paul makes it clear that the kingdom of God will not be inherited by people with mortal flesh and blood bodies, but rather with immortal and incorruptible bodies. So, the meaning of "in the twinkling of an eye" relates to the fact that when the last trumpet sounds the bodies of believers will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from natural, mortal bodies to spiritual, immortal bodies. So, this has nothing to do with people's souls or spirits and whether or not people are conscious after physical death. It only refers to what will happen to our bodies.

The Apostle Paul’s words “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye” have often been misunderstood. Many imagine that when Christ returns, the righteous dead will instantly spring into immortal life, while the living faithful will be changed on the spot, each transformed in isolation wherever they stand across the earth.

Yet such an idea, while appealing to the emotions, undermines one of the most fundamental doctrines of the New Testament, the judgment seat of Christ. Scripture plainly declares that “we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10).

To suggest that immortality is granted immediately upon resurrection, without a reckoning, without accountability, without the searching gaze of the Lord is to strip Christ of his role as Judge and to turn the day of judgment into a mere ceremony. What fear or reverence could such a day inspire if all who rise are already immortal? How could justice be served if the wicked never stand before Him to hear their sentence?

Paul’s teaching in 1 Corinthians 15 does not exclude judgment rather, it presupposes it. When he says “the dead shall be raised incorruptible,” he is describing the end result of resurrection, not the immediate process. Just as the “last Adam” (Christ) was made a life-giving spirit only after his resurrection, so also must his followers first stand before him to be declared worthy before they are granted the same immortal nature.

Psalm 21:4 - John 5:26 are proof Jesus was raised and granted immortality / eternal life!

Christ himself was once “a man of sorrows,” subject to weakness and death. He became the quickening Spirit only after being raised and glorified by God. This sequence, suffering, obedience, resurrection, and then glorification is the divine pattern for all who belong to Him.

Thus, when Paul writes that the dead will be raised and the living changed, we must understand this as a summary of the whole resurrection process, including appearance before Christ’s tribunal. General statements of Scripture often compress complex events into simple phrases; they do not exclude the necessary steps that other passages plainly reveal.

The truth is sobering: there is a day appointed when God will judge the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. The record of our lives written even now in our actions and motives will be made manifest before him. The wise, who serve faithfully and humbly in this present age, will be honored with immortality and glory. But those who live carelessly, though once enlightened, will find only shame and loss.

This coming judgment is not a terror for the faithful; it is their hope. It reminds us that every act of obedience has meaning, that every sacrifice for righteousness’ sake will be remembered, and that our present choices are shaping our eternal standing.

The “twinkling of an eye” is not an escape from responsibility but the culmination of a life tested, proven, and accepted before the King.

Let every disciple, therefore, live with reverent awareness of this truth for “the wise shall inherit glory, but shame shall be the promotion of fools.”

Immortality will be put on (or clothed) by those who are raised and approved by God.

BTW - if you denied Christ was given immortality and Life then you have lost your reward.

 

[TribulationSigns]

i am with you Brother on most of your post and also give out a HalelluYAH with you.

We have been raised and seated in CHRIST - Amen
Did you know that is a MARRIAGE Contract

We rule and reign wiith CHRIST - TODAY in this aspect = His Word is Truth and the Truth sets us FREE from condemnation.
We also have been given authority(only in His Name) to tread on serpents and scorpions(symbolic) of evil spirits and temptation.

That all being TRUE = we are not reigning on earth - yet!!!

But very soon, we will = only at His 2nd Coming

No, Christ has already established His Kingdom at the Cross. From that moment, He empowered His chosen witnesses—the Elect—to serve as kings and priests within His Kingdom, proclaiming the Gospel throughout the world. This has been true since around 33 A.D.

The purpose of the millennial kingdom is the building of Christ’s Church, as the Elect are continually added through the hearing and believing of the Gospel. Not when we can enjoy peace and quiet, sitting on lush green grass beside a gentle waterfall, while the lion and the lamb rest together in harmony.

If someone believes that the Kingdom has not yet come and Satan has not yet been bound, then such a view would mean that we are not yet saved and have no Kingdom to reign with Christ in today.

 

[rwb]

Differently, "the first resurrection" of Revelation 20:5 will be the great tribulation martyred saints, who will be witnesses of gospel of salvation in Christ.

Not will be Doug! They are already tribulation saints having been faithful unto death. Yet even though physical death has taken them from this earth, they remain the spiritual body of Christ, living souls in the Kingdom of God in heaven because in life before being martyred they lived and reigned with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

After telling us of the faithful martyred saints alive in heaven after they physically died, John next tells us the fate of the "rest of the dead", those who have not physically died, have not been martyred for their faith. These shall not live again until the thousand years expire. They shall not have part in the first resurrection. If not for the numbering of the verses, but a natural reading of the text, "This is the first resurrection" is connected to what John next tells us.

Revelation 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Reading vs 6 attached to the statement "This is the first resurrection", John writes those having part in the first resurrection are blessed and holy, and have overcome the second death, they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and also shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) This is the first resurrection - Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If we try to force a/the thousand years into a literal one thousand years of time, the text is nonsensical. How could the martyred saints have lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years and then be martyred, and the thousand years also be future for those who shall be called blessed and holy, overcome the second death, and also be priest of God and Christ?

What is the fate of the rest of the dead, who never live and reign with Christ and do not overcome the second death? They are the unbelieving "the dead" who shall be called before the judgment throne of God to give account of according to what is found written in the books and the book of life. Since their names will not be found written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, the dead, all of them will be cast into the LOF that is the second death.

Revelation 20:11-13 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14-15 (KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

1Thessalonians 4:15-18 refers to the resurrection/rapture event that will take place before the great tribulation begins.

When Jesus returns to end the great tribulation, those who took part in resurrection/rapture event earlier will return with Jesus as the bride of Christ in Revelation 19:7-14.

No, the great tribulation shall come before the thousand years expire. After the thousand years have ended the only time left for this earth is for Satan's little season, at which time he gathers together Gog and Magog (antichrists, and antichristians) to come against the Kingdom of God on this earth (Church), then the saints both the dead and the living will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and fire from God out of heaven will come down to devour the whole earth along with all who remain in unbelief still alive at His coming.

Rev 19:7-14 spiritually depicts all that is coming to pass during this time symbolized a thousand years, the inter-advent period, that time that began with the first advent of Christ and will not be finished until the seventh trumpet begins to sound that time shall be no longer.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Spiritual Israelite

1 Corinthians 15:54 “When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up in victory.’”

And when is this corruptible to put on incorruption? When are the dead to be raised?

Scripture answers plainly: “Each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.” 1 Corinthians 15:23, ESV)

Could there be more decisive proof that the coming of Christ, the resurrection of the sleeping saints, the transformation of the living faithful, the judgments that will destroy the wicked, and the beginning of Christ’s reign are all inseparably connected?

They are not isolated events scattered across ages, they are bound together as one great divine moment, the grand epoch toward which all prophecy, all human history, and all creation itself are moving.

Nothing else in the story of mankind can compare to that day when corruption will finally yield to incorruption, when mortality is swallowed up by life, and when Christ reigns supreme over a redeemed creation.

 

[Davidpt]

Jesus spoke about this age and the age to come in Luke 20:34-36. He said in this age people get married and they die and in the age to come people will no longer get married or die. In the Premil view, the age to come is the thousand years. By saying there will be babies born during a time after this age ends, which it will when Christ returns at the end of the age (Matt 24:3), that blatantly contradicts what Christ said about no more marriage in the age to come. And by saying that there will be death after Jesus comes at the end of the age contradicts Jesus saying that no one will die anymore in the age to come. Amil does not contradict Luke 20:34-36 like Premil does because we agree that there will be no marriage or death in the eternal age to come in the new heavens and new earth.

My view is that no one will still be procreating during the millennium in the future. But let's assume I'm wrong about that. It would simply mean mortals are the ones procreating, not immortals.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Look what the text states. Mortals are not in view here. And besides, per Premil, if we factor in Zechariah 14:16-19, those remaining of the nations that came against Jerusalem don't need to be resurrected. They are not even dead yet. Luke 20:35 is involving someone that has been resurrected and have put on bodily immortality.

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


Imagine applying this to mortals as well---Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels

IOW, you are ignoring context in this case. What you brought up is not also applicable to any mortal survivors remaining who then fulfill Zechariah 14:16-19 post the 2nd coming.

 

[Hiddenthings]

My view is that no one will still be procreating during the millennium in the future. But let's assume I'm wrong about that. It would simply mean mortals are the ones procreating, not immortals.

Correct

 

[TribulationSigns]

Differently, "the first resurrection" of Revelation 20:5 will be the great tribulation martyred saints, who will be witnesses of gospel of salvation in Christ.

The so-called seven-year “Great Tribulation” taught in premillennial doctrine is not biblical. The timeline in Revelation 20 has been completely misunderstood. There is no seven-year period, and there is no future “great tribulation” where supposedly “left-behind” Christians—those who missed the rapture—will later get saved and continue preaching the Gospel. Seriously?

Psa 44:22

• Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

Rom 8:36

• As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

1Jn 3:15

• Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

From the moment of the Cross, believers in Christ have faced persecution, suffering, and martyrdom—both physical and spiritual. Throughout history, Christians have been “killed all the day long” by those who despise the truth, reject their testimony, and refuse to worship the doctrines of the beast. This is what it truly means to be beheaded for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Therefore, we are IN THE TRIBULATION and IN THE KINGDOM as John was:

Rev 1:9

• I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Not about the so-called 7 years tribulation but a great tribulation that spanned from Abel to Last Elect, ALL ELECT in Christ, UNTIL the generation of evil is fulfilled.

Rev 7:13-14

• And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
• And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

And yet, after the Cross, these faithful saints live and reign with Christ in His kingdom, both during their lifetime in the Spirit and after the death of their fleshly bodies.

 

[David in NJ]

Sigh....

Read again:

Revelation 5:10

• "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

From the moment every Saint were born again, they were made king and priest in the Kingdom of God and they, every one of them, shall reign on Earth from the day they were born again. Not waiting for kingdom to come in the future. Do you realize that not everyone were born again at the same time, do you?

Now, Jerusalem "IS" the New Testament Church and the Kings of the earth are ruled over by her. So actually, that's yet another of many proofs that this Mystery Babylon is in fact Jerusalem. Because the Holy City Jerusalem from God is the reigning power over the kings of the earth. And as representation of the city of the great King, the Church is the New Testament Holy City. I guess you know because Christ came as Priest and reigns as King, the Church is ruled over by Him and reign as kings with Him. Why? Because they are His representatives on earth. Not in the future. Right NOW! So yes, Jerusalem is the reigning power over all the kings of the earth. You have to understand that this body, this great city, is a symbol of Christ who reigns over the kings.

Revelation 5:10

• "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

When will we (as kings) reign on the earth? The unpalatable answer (in some quarters) is that we reign as kings on earth NOW! ...RIGHT NOW! We (the Church) "ARE" the kings of the earth. We are those kings who were ruled over by this great Holy city. Because the Church is the body of Christ on earth. The Church has been given power over the enemy, and that power is not abrogated in the Church until Satan is loosed. As Christ is King of kings. Which means he reigns over US as HIS kings of the earth!

Revelation 1:5-6

• "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
• And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Not later? Not in the future. RIGHT NOW! When we were washed from our sins! When we were born again! Selah!
There we have our New Testament declaration of who the kings of the earth really are. Christ is the Prince (ruler) of the Kings of the earth, and clearly He has made us (the Church) these kings of the Earth whom He reigns over. So Revelation saying the kings of the earth are those of the Church, should be interpreted "consistently" that way. Not kings of the earth meaning several different things. And it illustrates that they are the Church, and Christ reigns over them as their Prince (Ruler). Prince of the Kings of the earth. In that context of Revelation, Kings of the earth clearly refer to members of the Church, His servants. Nothing new there. The Church is this Great City.

Isaiah 62:12

• "And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken."

don't sigh = lift your praise on HIGH

 

[David in NJ]

No, Christ has already established His Kingdom at the Cross. From that moment, He empowered His chosen witnesses—the Elect—to serve as kings and priests within His Kingdom, proclaiming the Gospel throughout the world. This has been true since around 33 A.D.

The purpose of the millennial kingdom is the building of Christ’s Church, as the Elect are continually added through the hearing and believing of the Gospel. Not when we can enjoy peace and quiet, sitting on lush green grass beside a gentle waterfall, while the lion and the lamb rest together in harmony.

If someone believes that the Kingdom has not yet come and Satan has not yet been bound, then such a view would mean that we are not yet saved and have no Kingdom to reign with Christ in today.

JESUS is Right where the FATHER wants HIM = interceding on our behalf

Have you read Revelation lately???

 

[TribulationSigns]

don't sigh = lift your praise on HIGH

Of course always does.

 

[TribulationSigns]

JESUS is Right where the FATHER wants HIM = interceding on our behalf

Have you read Revelation lately???

Scripture? Your point?