If you believe that the church is the bride of Christ, then.....

[afaithfulone4u]

where does that leave the OTsaints such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the unbelieving Jews? And why are the disciples only called the children of the bridechamber?

Matt 9:15
15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
KJV
Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

 

[daq]

where does that leave the OTsaints such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the unbelieving Jews? And why are the disciples only called the children of the bridechamber?

Matt 9:15
15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
KJV
Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

Actually Matthew 9:15 employs GSN#5207 "huios" which should be rendered "sons of the bridechamber".
Perhaps the companion passage to the "Ten Virgins" will shed more light on this topic also:

Luke 12:35-42 KJV
35. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41. Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42. And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

The only place this final statement is found anywhere else would be Matthew 24:45 ~

Matthew 24:45 ~ 25:1 KJV
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51. And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
1. Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

As one may clearly see the context flows directly into Matthew 25:1 and the "Ten Virgins" ... :)

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Actually Matthew 9:15 employs GSN#5207 "huios" which should be rendered "sons of the bridechamber".
Perhaps the companion passage to the "Ten Virgins" will shed more light on this topic also:

Luke 12:35-42 KJV
35. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41. Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42. And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

The only place this final statement is found anywhere else would be Matthew 24:45 ~

Matthew 24:45 ~ 25:1 KJV
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51. And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
1. Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

As one may clearly see the context flows directly into Matthew 25:1 and the "Ten Virgins" ... :)

Greetings daq,
My question is really asking, if individuals believe they are the bride of Christ (which they are not) and they believe that you have to be part of the church to be the bride and are the only ones who go to heaven, then why does it Abraham, Isaac and Jacob sitting in heaven with them? And what about all of the unbelieving Jews, to Christ?
Have you seen who the virgins are? Virgins do not have to be female, for there are no gender or nationality in the One new man in Christ Jesus, they will all be male and called the son's of God.
Rev 14:1-5
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.


Isa 66:7-10
7 Before{CAUGHT UP TO GOD'S THRONE} she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb{Womb of heavenly Jerusalem}? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem{HEAVENLY}, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her{EARTHLY JERUSALEM}:
KJV
Rev 12:2-11
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child{CHILDREN/SONS OF GOD}, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
KJV
Isa 62:4-5
4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
KJV

 

[daq]

The statement-question in bold red emphasis I do not understand:

Greetings daq,
My question is really asking, if individuals believe they are the bride of Christ (which they are not) and they believe that you have to be part of the church to be the bride and are the only ones who go to heaven, then why does it Abraham, Isaac and Jacob sitting in heaven with them? And what about all of the unbelieving Jews, to Christ?
Have you seen who the virgins are? Virgins do not have to be female, for there are no gender or nationality in the One new man in Christ Jesus, they will all be male and called the son's of God.
Rev 14:1-5
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.


Isa 66:7-10
7 Before{CAUGHT UP TO GOD'S THRONE} she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb{Womb of heavenly Jerusalem}? saith thy God.
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem{HEAVENLY}, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her{EARTHLY JERUSALEM}:
KJV
Rev 12:2-11
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child{CHILDREN/SONS OF GOD}, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
KJV
Isa 62:4-5
4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
KJV

As for the rest we appear to agree, (even concerning the contexts you have chosen) ... :)

 

[afaithfulone4u]

The statement-question in bold red emphasis I do not understand:


As for the rest we appear to agree, (even concerning the contexts you have chosen) ... :)

My wording fails miserably I know : ) As we can read, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be sitting in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 8:10-12
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How is this possible if we say the body of Christ is the bride and the only way to the heavenly hope is to be part of his body?
They are Old Covenant Israel who passed on before Jesus' ministry and were not part of the body of Christ, so how is it that they made heaven?
My point is, because the body of Christ is NOT the bride, The holy City heavenly Jerusalem our MOTHER is the Bride and the offspring are the children/sons of God.

Rev 21:9-12
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
KJV

They are part of the remnant of the 7,000 OT saints that God has spared for Himself by grace. All others MUST be born again since Christ. These are the, MANY of the saints who came out of the graves in the eartquake at Jesus' resurrection and walked around in the city.

1 Kings 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
KJV
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

Ezek 37:5-8
5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking{EARTHQUAKE}, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them{THEY COULD NOT RECEIVE THE SPIRIT OF LIFE UNTIL AFTER JESUS WAS FIRST TO RESURRECT}.
KJV
Ezek 37:12-14
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
KJV
Matt 27:50-54
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
KJV

 

[daq]

I see, so it was more of a statement than a question. I have a question for you:

Should Matthew 8:12 read "children of the kingdom" (Matthew 8:12 KJV) or should it be "sons of the kingdom" (Matthew 8:12 ASV) as is also the case with the "sons of the bridechamber" (Matthew 9:15 ASV)? And if the "huios-sons of the kingdom" shall be cast out into "outer darkness" how then is it possible that this can mean "forever" when the kingdom of which he speaks is the Kingdom of Heaven? And if the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness then does the statement not imply ALL of those who would be sons of the kingdom? Perhaps this "outer darkness" is a prerequisite to becoming a son of the kingdom, or son of the resurrection, both of which would must needs occur before the physical death of the body if such were to be the case, (for to be a son of the kingdom of heaven is to be born from above and the same cannot die). And if such be the case then where and when should this outer darkness come about each in his or her appointed times? Would it not be when the Tamiyd is taken from the sons of the bridechamber? For then shall they famine-fast and mourn for the days. :)

 

[7angels]

My wording fails miserably I know : ) As we can read, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be sitting in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 8:10-12
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

How is this possible if we say the body of Christ is the bride and the only way to the heavenly hope is to be part of his body?
They are Old Covenant Israel who passed on before Jesus' ministry and were not part of the body of Christ, so how is it that they made heaven?
My point is, because the body of Christ is NOT the bride, The holy City heavenly Jerusalem our MOTHER is the Bride and the offspring are the children/sons of God.

Rev 21:9-12
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
KJV

They are part of the remnant of the 7,000 OT saints that God has spared for Himself by grace. All others MUST be born again since Christ. These are the, MANY of the saints who came out of the graves in the eartquake at Jesus' resurrection and walked around in the city.

1 Kings 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
KJV
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

Ezek 37:5-8
5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking{EARTHQUAKE}, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them{THEY COULD NOT RECEIVE THE SPIRIT OF LIFE UNTIL AFTER JESUS WAS FIRST TO RESURRECT}.
KJV
Ezek 37:12-14
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
KJV
Matt 27:50-54
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
KJV

i would like to ask a few questions to clarify if i am understanding where you are coming from. from your questions you asked in your post(your questions are listed below in red) is this how you come to the conclusion that the bride is New Jerusalem and not the church? second what exactly is the kingdom of heaven mean to you or in other words what is the kingdom of the heaven referring to within the bible? why do you consider New Jerusalem as our bride? could it be possible that john seeing the coming of New Jerusalem is symbolic or referring to something else?

How is this possible if we say the body of Christ is the bride and the only way to the heavenly hope is to be part of his body?
They are Old Covenant Israel who passed on before Jesus' ministry and were not part of the body of Christ, so how is it that they made heaven?
My point is, because the body of Christ is NOT the bride, The holy City heavenly Jerusalem our MOTHER is the Bride and the offspring are the children/sons of God.

God bless

 

[daq]

i would like to ask a few questions to clarify if i am understanding where you are coming from. from your questions you asked in your post(your questions are listed below in red) is this how you come to the conclusion that the bride is New Jerusalem and not the church? second what exactly is the kingdom of heaven mean to you or in other words what is the kingdom of the heaven referring to within the bible? why do you consider New Jerusalem as our bride? could it be possible that john seeing the coming of New Jerusalem is symbolic or referring to something else?

How is this possible if we say the body of Christ is the bride and the only way to the heavenly hope is to be part of his body?
They are Old Covenant Israel who passed on before Jesus' ministry and were not part of the body of Christ, so how is it that they made heaven?
My point is, because the body of Christ is NOT the bride, The holy City heavenly Jerusalem our MOTHER is the Bride and the offspring are the children/sons of God.

God bless

Also for the record I agree that Jerusalem of above is our mother-covenant, (Galatians 4:26 KJV) but that does not make that particular allegory of the two covenants also the bride of Messiah. The Bride of Messiah is the Daughter of Zion-Jerusalem as stated in Zechariah 9:9 and fulfilled in Matthew 21:4-5 (the woman are the cities are the covenants). It is a technicality but allegorical things must be perfect and according to the Scripture or they fail by the machinations of men. :)

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Before the Church, God was married to the Jews.
Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

God would divorce Judah as he had Israel because they went a whoring after other gods.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

The Old Covenant was a marriage to the Jews.

The New Covenant is a marriage to whosoever will. That marriage took place when the Church age began.

Read the post # 2, parables of the kingdom of God, and those that were bidden to the wedding:
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17458-hermeneutics-101-parables-explained-3-and-parables-4-kingdom-of-god/

 

[mjrhealth]

Really depends on which church you are talking about, First off, God never instituted the " church" complete mistranslation by some german guy, secondly mans church, by what ever name you call it, is the Harlot church. One is either with Jesus and His ecclisia or with man and his church, but to remain in mans church one must be unfaithful to your first love. Jesus. So much to learn, never ends.

In All His Love

 

[SilenceInMotion]

where does that leave the OTsaints such as Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob and the unbelieving Jews? And why are the disciples only called
the children of the bridechamber?



Matt 9:15

15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn,
as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when
the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.

KJV

Matt 8:11-12

11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

KJV

The Roman Church is the direct church of the apostle Peter. Everyone focuses on Matthew 16:18, but they don't look at the verses above and below it, which altogether is God blessing Peter as the rock in which Jesus' church will be built. In fact, Jesus changed his name from Simon to Peter, derived from the word 'petrus' which literally means 'rock'.

Those verses undeniably put the Roman Church as the original, God willed Church. The papacy is an unbroken lineage and sucession from Peter- the Church is marveled because of this. It is literally the face of God's will reaching through time.

No other church has this, they are churches of men.


Nonethless, the Church accepts Protestants as Christians in stating that they uphold the core doctrines of the Trinity and baptism, and that the Spirit is not limited just to the Church. Roman Catholciism even teaches that an atheist can be saved if they are charitable and obey God's natural law (though they will probably have a harsher experiance in Purgatory).

On another note, the 'outer darkness' is Purgatory- that is what the traditioinal churches have interpreted it as. 'Outer darkness' means 'darkness outside the light of God’s presence'. In Revelation 21:4, the weeping and gnashing of teeth disperse, as Jesus 'wipes the tears from our eyes'.

Unless a person is perfect, or issued into Sainthood, you are going to spend time in Purgatory. That is something Catholics have all come to accept. Those who don't go to Purgatory are either sent to Hell or immediately ascended into Heaven upon death.

 

[mjrhealth]

Nonethless, the Church accepts Protestants as Christians in stating that
they uphold the core doctrines of the Trinity and baptism, and that the
Spirit is not limited just to the Church. Roman Catholciism even
teaches that an atheist can be saved if they are charitable and obey
God's natural law (though they will probably have a harsher experiance
in Purgatory).

And Jesus Died for the sins of all Men,

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

If only you could see, but you like so many choose to believe the lie to your own demise.

Mat_9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

In All His Love

 

[guysmith]

afaithfulone4u,

You stated: where does that leave the OTsaints such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and
the unbelieving Jews? And why are the disciples only called the children
of the bridechamber?

My response: because the church is not the bride. The Tabernacle of God is the bride.







Revelation 21 (KJV)


21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And
I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of
God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his
people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[veteran]

The Roman Church is the direct church of the apostle Peter. Everyone focuses on Matthew 16:18, but they don't look at the verses above and below it, which altogether is God blessing Peter as the rock in which Jesus' church will be built. In fact, Jesus changed his name from Simon to Peter, derived from the word 'petrus' which literally means 'rock'.

Those verses undeniably put the Roman Church as the original, God willed Church. The papacy is an unbroken lineage and sucession from Peter- the Church is marveled because of this. It is literally the face of God's will reaching through time.

No other church has this, they are churches of men.


Nonethless, the Church accepts Protestants as Christians in stating that they uphold the core doctrines of the Trinity and baptism, and that the Spirit is not limited just to the Church. Roman Catholciism even teaches that an atheist can be saved if they are charitable and obey God's natural law (though they will probably have a harsher experiance in Purgatory).

On another note, the 'outer darkness' is Purgatory- that is what the traditioinal churches have interpreted it as. 'Outer darkness' means 'darkness outside the light of God’s presence'. In Revelation 21:4, the weeping and gnashing of teeth disperse, as Jesus 'wipes the tears from our eyes'.

Unless a person is perfect, or issued into Sainthood, you are going to spend time in Purgatory. That is something Catholics have all come to accept. Those who don't go to Purgatory are either sent to Hell or immediately ascended into Heaven upon death.

That's nothing more than traditions of men, and then blind ignorance.

The idea of a 'pope' (from Latin pappas) didn't even BEGIN... until the 4th or 5th century A.D. And not until much later was the term 'pope' used officially by the Roman Church. The title of "bishop of bishops" is what title the KJV translators used in their day for a pope, as written in the original 1611 KJV Letter To The Reader, denying the supreme authority of a "bishop of bishops" over the British Church.

Per The New Testament, the office of 'bishop' was the position of overseers in Christ's Church, and it speaks of many of them, Peter even referring to our Lord Jesus as The "Bishop of our souls" (1 Pet.2:25).

Peter nor none of Christ's Apostles ever referred to themselves as a 'pope' (nor 'father', or 'holy father', etc.).

Linus, the bishop of Rome after Peter, had a family connection with the Britons, as Apostle Paul mentions Linus and Claudia in assocation with Rufus Pudens (Pudentia).

The reason why the British Church has remained apart and separate from the Roman Church is because of how The Gospel early in the first century A.D. came to the Isles, and then established among the Culdees of early Briton.

http://archive.org/stream/historyculdeesa00maccgoog#page/n8/mode/2up

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/culdee.html