If you have a bible which removes the latter part of 1 John 5:7, then your "bible" is not the word of God.

[2 Peter 1:10-11]

In english, the Authorized (King James) Version of the Holy Bible is the word of God. The reason why bibles which pervert 1 John 5:7 are not the word of God is because they negate a precept which the Holy Ghost has set forth in both testaments. Which is:

"...At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established."
— (Deuteronomy 19:15).

And again in the new testament:

"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
— (2 Corinthians 13:1).

And so, the Holy Ghost has given us two witnesses. Heaven:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
— (1 John 5:7).

And earth:

"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
— (1 John 5:8).

And what is the record? It is:

"...That God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
— (1 John 5:11-12).

May God reveal this to you. Because the hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them. Amen.

"The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant."
— (Psalm 25:14).

 

[Augustin56]

Strictly speaking, the Bible is NOT the Word of God. The Word of God is not a book. It is Someone, namely Jesus Christ. The Gospel of John begins, "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God.". St. John was speaking of Jesus Christ, not a book!

Then what is the Bible? It is one of the two methods of transmission of the Word of God (the other being oral, mentioned by St. Paul in 2 Thes 2:15). In fact the Bibles we read are a translation into the vernacular of one of the two main transmissions of the Word of God. Translations have errors due to differences of language and culture.

 

[amadeus]

2co 3:5	Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2co 3:6	Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Without the Spirit, the Holy Spirit that is, quickening the words we read or hear from Bibles [any version or language] which Bible is the Word of God?

 

[Tommy Cool]

Because of words added or subtracted in Bible version ...it does not negate the Word of God.

The KJV (which I use) has many errors and several areas (primarily in the NT) where words have been added to promote a belief. But I like the fact that the KJV uses italic for the many of the words that were added by translators…. and it is the only Bible version that was not copyrighted (per se) at the time.

But with due diligence we to seek the truth of what was written in the original God breathed Word through our studies.

I have looked into the verses in I John and I have to conclude that there were several words added.

I don’t seek to prove or disprove anything ….I seek only the truth. Sometimes there is not much to go on but in this case there is clear evidence that there was a deliberate forgery….

By most all accounts… theologians agree that 1John 5:7 was added and should be discarded.

According to biblical scholars ...this is not even questionable ….it absolutely was not in any of the Greek MMS prior to 16th century (some say the 12 or 14 century) and no Latin manuscript contains the text prior to the fourth century….. And since Latin was translated from the Greek it is assumed that it was forged by Latin translators.

There is far to much information regarding the added words which started out as a scribal marginal note.
The verses should read as the NIV has it stated ….(the Peshitta Aramaic from 500 AD is also similar.)

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that testify:

1Jo 5:8 The spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.



Some people will refuse to accept what I have written ....that is your choice. I didn’t make anything up…. this comes as documented historical truths …and it’s not that tough to research. ….It’s just not in the originals.

 

[Wrangler]

Strictly speaking, the Bible is NOT the Word of God. The Word of God is not a book. It is Someone, namely Jesus Christ. The Gospel of John begins, "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God.". St. John was speaking of Jesus Christ, not a book!

You have that exactly backwards. Besides reading what you want into John 1:1 is there any other biblical evidence that the word of God is a man?

 

[2 Peter 1:10-11]

Because of words added or subtracted in Bible version ...it does not negate the Word of God.

The KJV (which I use) has many errors and several areas (primarily in the NT) where words have been added to promote a belief. But I like the fact that the KJV uses italic for the many of the words that were added by translators…. and it is the only Bible version that was not copyrighted (per se) at the time.

But with due diligence we to seek the truth of what was written in the original God breathed Word through our studies.

I have looked into the verses in I John and I have to conclude that there were several words added.

I don’t seek to prove or disprove anything ….I seek only the truth. Sometimes there is not much to go on but in this case there is clear evidence that there was a deliberate forgery….

By most all accounts… theologians agree that 1John 5:7 was added and should be discarded.

According to biblical scholars ...this is not even questionable ….it absolutely was not in any of the Greek MMS prior to 16th century (some say the 12 or 14 century) and no Latin manuscript contains the text prior to the fourth century….. And since Latin was translated from the Greek it is assumed that it was forged by Latin translators.

There is far to much information regarding the added words which started out as a scribal marginal note.
The verses should read as the NIV has it stated ….(the Peshitta Aramaic from 500 AD is also similar.)

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that testify:

1Jo 5:8 The spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.



Some people will refuse to accept what I have written ....that is your choice. I didn’t make anything up…. this comes as documented historical truths …and it’s not that tough to research. ….It’s just not in the originals.

If you sought the truth, sir, then you would have repented in dust and ashes for writing this filth. But as the faithful and true witness said of your generation:

Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

It is written again:

But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: for with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. Fill thou up then the measure of thy fathers.

 

[Wrangler]

In english, the Authorized (King James) Version of the Holy Bible is the word of God.

Relying on the most ever prone translation in English it’s not a very good idea.

 

[Wrangler]

By most all accounts… theologians agree that 1John 5:7 was added and should be discarded.

If you sought the truth, sir, then you would have repented in dust and ashes for writing this filth.

The truth is filth? Dust for speaking the truth?! Very unbecoming.

 

[2 Peter 1:10-11]

Strictly speaking, the Bible is NOT the Word of God. The Word of God is not a book. It is Someone, namely Jesus Christ. The Gospel of John begins, "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God.". St. John was speaking of Jesus Christ, not a book!

Then what is the Bible? It is one of the two methods of transmission of the Word of God (the other being oral, mentioned by St. Paul in 2 Thes 2:15). In fact the Bibles we read are a translation into the vernacular of one of the two main transmissions of the Word of God. Translations have errors due to differences of language and culture.

Sir, you have erred greatly, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God. The holy scriptures say in the first chapter of the gospel of John:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."
— (John 1:1-2).

The Word of God was with him in the beginning. A Word is not a Son. A Son did not come out of God’s mouth, neither does a Word come out of the womb of a woman. How is it that you suddenly forget what English words mean? God’s holy Word is him. Just like your word is you. And my word is me. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. And God’s holy Word is:

"...Quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
— (Hebrews 4:12).

It is also written in the psalms that God's holy word is forever settled in heaven:

"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."
— (Psalm 119:89).

And God's Word:

"...Was made flesh, and dwelt among us..."
— (John 1:14).

How was God's word made flesh? It is written in the law that God said unto Moses:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put MY WORDS IN HIS MOUTH; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
— (Deuteronomy 18:18).

As Jesus Christ said:

"I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."
— (John 12:49).

It is written further that the disciples:

"...Beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father..."
— (John 1:14).

How did the disciples behold God's glory? They beheld it when the Lord:

"...Was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light."
— (Matthew 17:2).

This is the glory of God. And it is as of the only begotten of the Father because:

"...God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself..."
— (2 Corinthians 5:19).

As it is written again concerning God the Father (who is the Godhead), that in Christ:

"...Dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
— (Colossians 2:9).

Repent. Words do not change definition when they are capitalized.

 

[Wrangler]

How is it that you suddenly forget what English words mean?

IDOLATRY of doctrine.

 

[Tommy Cool]

If you sought the truth, sir, then you would have repented in dust and ashes for writing this filth.

But I am perplexed:

I do not understand why you think exposing the truth of what God originally gave to John by revelation makes me an enemy of righteousness.

My thought is….. that you are a King James Only person to which you believe that it is an unerring version of the original Word of God. If that is the case…. then I understand your animosity towards what I write. Of course it’s not theeeeeeeeeeeeeee Word of God ….it is a version thereof translated and transcribed by man…and while it’s good ….it is not without errors mistranslations and deliberate forgeries.

If that is not the case, then please explain why exposing the truth causes such consternation with you. I understand if it goes against what you believe…. but that does not make me evil …it is just an opportunity to make a new decision and believe rightly as God as set the directive…..something I have had to do many times throughout my walk. I mean …..I don’t like being wrong just as much as the next person…............but if I find out that I am wrong about the Word of God …. I am happy to learn what the truth is so I can be right.

 

[Robert Gwin]

In english, the Authorized (King James) Version of the Holy Bible is the word of God. The reason why bibles which pervert 1 John 5:7 are not the word of God is because they negate a precept which the Holy Ghost has set forth in both testaments. Which is:

"...At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established."
— (Deuteronomy 19:15).

And again in the new testament:

"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
— (2 Corinthians 13:1).

And so, the Holy Ghost has given us two witnesses. Heaven:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
— (1 John 5:7).

And earth:

"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
— (1 John 5:8).

And what is the record? It is:

"...That God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
— (1 John 5:11-12).

May God reveal this to you. Because the hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them. Amen.

"The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant."
— (Psalm 25:14).

Many feel it was an addition sir. At any rate, whether it is or isn't is strictly an opinion.

 

[Augustin56]

2co 3:5	Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2co 3:6	Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Without the Spirit, the Holy Spirit that is, quickening the words we read or hear from Bibles [any version or language] which Bible is the Word of God?

Good post, great points! With the constant creation of new denominations by people personally interpreting the Bible (against St. Peter's warning in 2 Peter 1:20-21), we have to ask why. All read the Bible and claim to be enlightened by the same Holy Spirit, but come up with contrary interpretations and doctrines. For example, the Baptists say that infant Baptism is invalid. Lutherans say it is. Both claim to be led in their interpretation by the Holy Spirit.

Certainly God didn't leave a book to spread the fullness of His truths. That clearly hasn't worked. What He did leave, however, was the Church, which St. Paul refers to as the "pillar and foundation of truth" in 1 Tim 3:15. It is the Church that wrote the New Testament from the oral teachings that Christ gave the Apostles and their successors, the bishops. And it is the Church that chose the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, which Bible scholars claim was the version that was used for 80-85% of direct and indirect references from the New Testament.

 

[amadeus]

Good post, great points! With the constant creation of new denominations by people personally interpreting the Bible (against St. Peter's warning in 2 Peter 1:20-21), we have to ask why. All read the Bible and claim to be enlightened by the same Holy Spirit, but come up with contrary interpretations and doctrines. For example, the Baptists say that infant Baptism is invalid. Lutherans say it is. Both claim to be led in their interpretation by the Holy Spirit.

The "why" may be that some read and interpret without really having the Holy Spirit enlightenment at all, or having it at times, they too often quench the Holy Spirit, following rather their own heads and logic or that of other carnal men.

Certainly God didn't leave a book to spread the fullness of His truths. That clearly hasn't worked. What He did leave, however, was the Church, which St. Paul refers to as the "pillar and foundation of truth" in 1 Tim 3:15. It is the Church that wrote the New Testament from the oral teachings that Christ gave the Apostles and their successors, the bishops. And it is the Church that chose the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, which Bible scholars claim was the version that was used for 80-85% of direct and indirect references from the New Testament.

Of course the problem for men can be, and almost certainly at times is, their presumption of what is or is not the Church according to God. Even in this without being truly led by the Holy Spirit, how can a person be without doubt on the right pathway, the one which God has placed before people with eyes to see and ears to hear?

 

[Ed McKee]

In english, the Authorized (King James) Version of the Holy Bible is the word of God. The reason why bibles which pervert 1 John 5:7 are not the word of God is because they negate a precept which the Holy Ghost has set forth in both testaments. Which is:

"...At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established."
— (Deuteronomy 19:15).

And again in the new testament:

"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
— (2 Corinthians 13:1).

And so, the Holy Ghost has given us two witnesses. Heaven:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
— (1 John 5:7).

And earth:

"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
— (1 John 5:8).

And what is the record? It is:

"...That God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
— (1 John 5:11-12).

May God reveal this to you. Because the hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them. Amen.

"The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant."
— (Psalm 25:14).

The last part of 1 John 5:7 is spurious because it is not in any manuscript before 1500 which simply means it was added to the original writing. You can not simply add to the scriptures to try to prove a point or your point.

 

[2 Peter 1:10-11]

The last part of 1 John 5:7 is spurious because it is not in any manuscript before 1500 which simply means it was added to the original writing. You can not simply add to the scriptures to try to prove a point or your point.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[ButterflyJones]

"In the beginning was the word. And the word was with God and the word was God... And the word became flesh and dwelt among us."

The Bible contains the words of men. One must discern from among those what God intends to message unto us.

Hundreds of years, 40+ authors, numerous councils, scribes interpreting, supplementing for missing text, etc....

We may be the only Bible people witness.
Act accordingly.

Too many of us practice without knowing it biblioidolatry. Worship of the book, Bible. That's wrong.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

"In the beginning was the word. And the word was with God and the word was God... And the word became flesh and dwelt among us."

The Bible contains the words of men. One must discern from among those what God intends to message unto us.

Hundreds of years, 40+ authors, numerous councils, scribes interpreting, supplementing for missing text, etc....

We may be the only Bible people witness.
Act accordingly.

Too many of us practice without knowing it biblioidolatry. Worship of the book, Bible. That's wrong.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Pass down, but never pass up or pass by.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
(a la 1 John 5:7 Commentaries: For there are three that testify:
7. For there are three that bear record in heaven] If there is one thing that is certain in textual criticism, it is that this famous passage is not genuine. The Revisers have only performed an imperative duty in excluding it from both text and margin. External and internal evidence are alike overwhelmingly against the passage.

 

[ButterflyJones]

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Pass down, but never pass up or pass by.

Notice that passage never gives permission for edits and retractions? Yet the Bible to date has endured all this. Mistranslations, error in punctuation (Johannine Comma),and so forth.

If God inspired the Bible and ancient men believed that wouldn't God have preserved his first words throughout the centuries? And wouldn't men have respected this and let it alone?

This is why God, who saw it coming, told us to test. Not believe every spirit but test to see if they are of God.
And how we discern that isn't through the Bible. You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible is true.
It's through the indwelling Holy Spirit.