In Him were all things created.

[101G]

The Same "All Things" in John 1 are the same all things in Rev 21:5 Behold, I make all things new.
I noticed @Renniks quoted Romans 11:36 in his synopsis, usually he is fighting it. Looks like he is becoming a universalist.
Everyone has to start somewhere - eventually, one cherry will get you, and you'll have to find the Orchard, by seeing things in a new light.

yes, "all things are made by him", John 1:3. as well in that begining of creation, he made all things, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

and as you said, he will make all things new.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

For all the KJV thumpers in the world, that translation says that God even creates Evil. Well . . . that would certainly be included in "all things."

Isaiah 45:7 KJV - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

 

[Renniks]

yes, "all things are made by him", John 1:3. as well in that begining of creation, he made all things, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

and as you said, he will make all things new.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

But making all things new doesn't lead to universalism. Is this thread already disintegrating into that argument?

 

[Renniks]

For all the KJV thumpers in the world, that translation says that God even creates Evil. Well . . . that would certainly be included in "all things."

Isaiah 45:7 KJV - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

The KJV isn't a very accurate translation here. The verse is talking about God creating calamity for wicked people it has the context. It's not saying God created evil in the beginning.

 

[101G]

But making all things new doesn't lead to universalism. Is this thread already disintegrating into that argument?

did I say making all things new lead to universalism?

and what's the argument concering God's Holy Word?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

The KJV isn't a very accurate translation here. The verse is talking about God creating calamity for wicked people it has the context. It's not saying God created evil in the beginning.

are you sure, was not the tree of GOOD and EVIL in the garden? evil has it's place in God's economy.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

The KJV isn't a very accurate translation here. The verse is talking about God creating calamity for wicked people it has the context. It's not saying God created evil in the beginning.

I hear you. So if I, personally, created calamity for you and your family . . . you wouldn't associate my actions with evil?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

are you sure, was not the tree of GOOD and EVIL in the garden?

Wow . . . hadn't heard that one before. Updating the notes.

 

[101G]

Wow . . . hadn't heard that one before. Updating the notes.

Genesis 2:9 "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

understand, evil is not "sin", but evil.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

The verse is talking about God creating calamity for wicked people it has the context. It's not saying God created evil in the beginning.

Isaiah 45 deals with the Power of God. Our Powerful God has us write down His thoughts of Himself constantly. Seems like throughout the entire Old Testament, the theme could be, "For then they will know that I am the Lord their God!" All throughout Scripture, we read of His Power first and foremost, but incredibly, most miss this theme of Power. And consequently, there isn't much genuine "fear of the Lord," a Holy Respect for the Power that allows breath to enter our lungs.

 

[101G]

People must understand, everything is in God, the Good the Bad and the ugly. supportive scripture, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

people need to look at that verse very close, especially the B part.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Genesis 2:9 "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

understand, evil is not "sin", but evil.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I've got a question for you that I am pondering. I've been confronted with the idea that the sin of Adam and Eve was not equivalent to a Curse. This Curse could be described in a few ways, but in this case, let's call it the Sinful Nature, or the Sinful State of a person. Do you believe that this change took place within Adam and Eve, and subsequently (with a few exceptions), this Curse was applied to all people? Do you believe that this is the Purpose of Christ? To lift that Curse, or, to change us back to our original state (but "now" sharing in the Divine Nature)?

What do your notes look like on this concept created by God? Wouldn't you say that this is the Eternal Plan of God?

Ephesians 3:10-11 KJV - "To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord . . ."

[Edit] - The above passage was included to express that there are Eternal Purposes, or . . . Plans.

 

[101G]

I've got a question for you that I am pondering. I've been confronted with the idea that the sin of Adam and Eve was not equivalent to a Curse. This Curse could be described in a few ways, but in this case, let's call it the Sinful Nature, or the Sinful State of a person. Do you believe that this change took place within Adam and Eve, and subsequently (with a few exceptions), this Curse was applied to all people? Do you believe that this is the Purpose of Christ? To lift that Curse, or, to change us back to our original state (but "now" sharing in the Divine Nature)?

What do your notes look like on this concept created by God? Wouldn't you say that this is the Eternal Plan of God?

Ephesians 3:10-11 KJV - "To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord . . ."

[Edit] - The above passage was included to express that there are Eternal Purposes, or . . . Plans.

there was no curse on man, NOT FROM THE GARDEN, scripture, Genesis 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"
now because of Adam disobedience, death came upon all men.

as for the, "Eternal Plan of God?", you asked of, scripture, Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,"
Romans 8:21 "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."

I hope that helps.

Isaiah 45 deals with the Power of God. Our Powerful God has us write down His thoughts of Himself constantly. Seems like throughout the entire Old Testament, the theme could be, "For then they will know that I am the Lord their God!" All throughout Scripture, we read of His Power first and foremost, but incredibly, most miss this theme of Power. And consequently, there isn't much genuine "fear of the Lord," a Holy Respect for the Power that allows breath to enter our lungs.

Correct, and that POWER is vested in him and by him, and for him in his creation/creatures. as with his angels, yes, he, God, has evils angels to do his bidding.. he, God sent evil angels into Egypt, Psalms 78:49 "He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them."
and he, God, sent an evil spirit, to saul. 1 Samuel 16:14 "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him."

see, don't give the devil any credit, he has a JOB to do, just as other.

if one did not have evil, or as the poster said, "God creating calamity for wicked people" well calamity hits the rightious, scripture, James 1:2 "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;"
James 1:3 "Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience."

see temptation, (TEST), can be for Good, not just only evil. for God tempt, or test Abraham for rightiousness. just as in the Garden God subject man to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. see, God is the FIRST "FRUIT" INSPECTOR. man was tested in the Garden...... YIKES!.

and to determin GOOD from the BAD, it must be "TESTED".

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Renniks]

did I say making all things new lead to universalism?

and what's the argument concering God's Holy Word?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You seemed to be agreeing with the banned troll. My mistake.

 

[Renniks]

Genesis 2:9 "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

understand, evil is not "sin", but evil.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The Tree of knowledge of good and evil, not the tree of evil. Is evil even an entity? It seems to me that evil started as the lack of something, namely, lack of worship and obedience, which in turn created pride in Lucifer. We are all born innocent of the mystery of good versus evil. Don't you ever long to return to that state? If one is obedient to God, what merit does knowledge of evil bring to that person?

 

[101G]

You seemed to be agreeing with the banned troll. My mistake.

no problem, we all make mistakes, because we're human.

but may I say this, in your statement you make a GREAT point.... listen, "You seemed to be". this is what I see in discussion today, and the reason why many disagree, "SEEM TO BE". we assume, or make assumptions on what we have been taught. I ask us all, just for a second, let us all put away our assumptions, and look at the scriptures themselves, not throught the lens of trinitarianism, or Oneness, or JW ect... but look at the Word of God as God sees and understand.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Renniks]

People must understand, everything is in God, the Good the Bad and the ugly. supportive scripture, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

people need to look at that verse very close, especially the B part.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

There's no evil in God.

No darkness at all.
Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them, You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.
This is the message [of God’s promised revelation] which we have heard from Him and now announce to you, that God is Light [He is holy, His message is truthful, He is perfect in righteousness], and in Him there is no darkness at all [no sin, no wickedness, no imperfection]. 1 John 1:5
AMPC

I hear you. So if I, personally, created calamity for you and your family . . . you wouldn't associate my actions with evil?

Now then, listen, you lover of pleasure,
lounging in your security
and saying to yourself,
‘I am, and there is none besides me.
I will never be a widow
or suffer the loss of children.’
9 Both of these will overtake you
in a moment, on a single day:
loss of children and widowhood.
They will come upon you in full measure,
in spite of your many sorceries
and all your potent spells.
10 You have trusted in your wickedness
and have said, ‘No one sees me.’
Your wisdom and knowledge mislead you
when you say to yourself,
‘I am, and there is none besides me.’
11 Disaster will come upon you,
and you will not know how to conjure it away.
A calamity will fall upon you
that you cannot ward off with a ransom;
a catastrophe you cannot foresee
will suddenly come upon you.

12 “Keep on, then, with your magic spells
and with your many sorceries,
which you have labored at since childhood.
Perhaps you will succeed,
perhaps you will cause terror.
13 All the counsel you have received has only worn you out!
Let your astrologers come forward,
those stargazers who make predictions month by month,
let them save you from what is coming upon you.
14 Surely they are like stubble;
the fire will burn them up.
They cannot even save themselves
from the power of the flame.
These are not coals for warmth;
this is not a fire to sit by.
15 That is all they are to you—
these you have dealt with
and labored with since childhood.
All of them go on in their error;
there is not one that can save you.

In context God is opposing the evil of the Babylonians here. He's stopping their evil, by allowing them to reap what they have sown. So, people that use the verse to say God created evil are way off.

 

[Renniks]

Isaiah 45 deals with the Power of God. Our Powerful God has us write down His thoughts of Himself constantly. Seems like throughout the entire Old Testament, the theme could be, "For then they will know that I am the Lord their God!" All throughout Scripture, we read of His Power first and foremost, but incredibly, most miss this theme of Power. And consequently, there isn't much genuine "fear of the Lord," a Holy Respect for the Power that allows breath to enter our lungs.

I wonder how much of that was to oppose the false gods, who were mostly based on created things, like the sun or earth and so on? You still see this today, so many pagans and Earth worshipers.
But the twin themes are God's power and his love for his people, even though they kept straying away to the foreign gods. God often speaks like a jaded lover to Israel.

 

[101G]

There's no evil in God.

No darkness at all.

Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."
are there some evil people? .... thought so.
DARKNESS here is void of truth/Light, are there some ignorant people? ... thought so.

well they all are in God..... another assumption. YIKES!. lets check the record, Jeremiah 23:23 "Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?"
Jeremiah 23:24 "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD."

Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them, You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.

got one right.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

I wonder how much of that was to oppose the false gods, who were mostly based on created things, like the sun or earth and so on? You still see this today, so many pagans and Earth worshipers.
But the twin themes are God's power and his love for his people, even though they kept straying away to the foreign gods. God often speaks like a jaded lover to Israel.

Correct, gods are nothing in the world, only a idol. 1 Chronicles 16:26 "For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens."

and as for the Love of God toward us, correct, Jeremiah 31:3 "The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee."

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

this is what I like, the very next verse.

John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

the world, not just the Jews only, but "whosoever".

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"