In these Days the Wolves think they the sheep!

[bdavidc]

Let's gets some understanding from this point of view, because you are ignoring a whole lot that I'm saying.

I am not ignoring anything you are saying. I am reading the whole counsel of God instead of isolating a few verses and building a system around them.

You keep saying we only reject “sacrificial laws,” but Paul does not limit the argument that way. “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law” ~Galatians 2:16. He does not divide it into ceremonial versus moral when speaking of justification. The issue is works as a basis of being declared righteous before God.

You say baptism brings you under the blood and removes only past sins. But Scripture says, “By one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” ~Hebrews 10:14. Perfected for ever does not mean forgiven up to today and then on probation tomorrow.

You are also misusing Romans 3:25. “Remission of sins that are past” is explaining God’s forbearance before the cross. It is not teaching that Christ only covers pre-baptism sins. If that were true, then Romans 8:1 would not say, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.” No condemnation means none remains.

You appeal to Hebrews 10:26 as if any willful sin after conversion brings damnation. But the context is rejecting Christ’s sacrifice and going back to the old covenant system ~Hebrews 10:29. The entire chapter argues that His offering was made “once for all” ~Hebrews 10:10. If each willful failure cancels salvation, then His sacrifice was not once for all.

You are mixing grace and law as co-grounds of eternal life. Scripture says plainly, “If by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace” ~Romans 11:6. Salvation is not Christ plus sustained law-keeping. It is Christ alone.

Obedience matters. True faith produces it. “We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:10. But notice the order. We are created first. The works follow. They do not keep us justified.

The gospel is not: Christ forgives your past, now you must keep yourself saved by not willfully sinning.
The gospel is: Christ bore the full penalty of sin, satisfied God’s justice, and grants eternal life to all who believe. “He that hath the Son hath life” ~1 John 5:12.

That is the biblical answer.

 

[stevesonthebay]

I think highlighting how the Sabbath has become a token law that is compromised to suit modern ideas is a symptom of the overall compromise of the church and Christians today.

The world has progressed and has become such a powerful force that is readily available at a whim to bring comfort and pleasure. Its hard to resist. The lure is all around. I liken it to supercharged peer pressure on a cultural and even global scale.

As time has gone by the lure of the world has become more enticing. Unlike in the past I think where the culture was already open and accommodating of God and biblical norms.

Its interesting that all through history the same laws more or less applied uncomproimised. We can even go back to 30 years ago when some places still had no trading Sunday laws.

But times have changed quickly. Gods laws and order have been rationalised and reimagined in a postmodernist world. This has infiltrated into the church.

A new world order made by man, mixing politics and religion into a new Christainity which bends Gods law and order and Christs truth to accommodate the world. Rather than remaining true and bending the world to Gods laws.

 

[rvmb]

I am not ignoring anything you are saying. I am reading the whole counsel of God instead of isolating a few verses and building a system around them.

You keep saying we only reject “sacrificial laws,” but Paul does not limit the argument that way. “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law” ~Galatians 2:16. He does not divide it into ceremonial versus moral when speaking of justification. The issue is works as a basis of being declared righteous before God.

You say baptism brings you under the blood and removes only past sins. But Scripture says, “By one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” ~Hebrews 10:14. Perfected for ever does not mean forgiven up to today and then on probation tomorrow.

You are also misusing Romans 3:25. “Remission of sins that are past” is explaining God’s forbearance before the cross. It is not teaching that Christ only covers pre-baptism sins. If that were true, then Romans 8:1 would not say, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.” No condemnation means none remains.

You appeal to Hebrews 10:26 as if any willful sin after conversion brings damnation. But the context is rejecting Christ’s sacrifice and going back to the old covenant system ~Hebrews 10:29. The entire chapter argues that His offering was made “once for all” ~Hebrews 10:10. If each willful failure cancels salvation, then His sacrifice was not once for all.

You are mixing grace and law as co-grounds of eternal life. Scripture says plainly, “If by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace” ~Romans 11:6. Salvation is not Christ plus sustained law-keeping. It is Christ alone.

Obedience matters. True faith produces it. “We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:10. But notice the order. We are created first. The works follow. They do not keep us justified.

The gospel is not: Christ forgives your past, now you must keep yourself saved by not willfully sinning.
The gospel is: Christ bore the full penalty of sin, satisfied God’s justice, and grants eternal life to all who believe. “He that hath the Son hath life” ~1 John 5:12.

That is the biblical answer.

""The gospel is: Christ bore the full penalty of sin""
Hey bd, confusion vanishes when we stick to the salvation teachings that apply for the correct age & audience.
For 'today' our Apostle Rom 11:13 & Minister Rom 15:16 is only Acts 9:15 Paul.
Gal 2:7-9 confirms the 'others' knew it.
Paul himself confirmed he was the first 'saved' in this current 'age' 1 Tim 1:16 "in me first"
Gal 1:11-12 was the Gospel that was taught to ONLY Paul by Christ
Gal 2:6 The' others' taught Paul nothing
With 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 being the only Gospel that saves believers 'today'

 

[bdavidc]

""The gospel is: Christ bore the full penalty of sin""
Hey bd, confusion vanishes when we stick to the salvation teachings that apply for the correct age & audience.
For 'today' our Apostle Rom 11:13 & Minister Rom 15:16 is only Acts 9:15 Paul.
Gal 2:7-9 confirms the 'others' knew it.
Paul himself confirmed he was the first 'saved' in this current 'age' 1 Tim 1:16 "in me first"
Gal 1:11-12 was the Gospel that was taught to ONLY Paul by Christ
Gal 2:6 The' others' taught Paul nothing
With 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 being the only Gospel that saves believers 'today'

You are carving the Bible into pieces God never carved. Yes, Paul was called uniquely. Yes, he received revelation directly from Christ ~Galatians 1:12. But he did not preach a different saving gospel. After defining the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:3–4, Paul says, “whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed” ~1 Corinthians 15:11. Same message. Same salvation.

Galatians 2:7–9 is about different audiences, not different gospels. And Peter himself says, “through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they” ~Acts 15:11. One grace. Not two programs.

When Paul warns, “If any… preach any other gospel… let him be accursed” ~Galatians 1:8, he leaves no room for parallel saving messages.

There is one cross, one Christ, one gospel. Do not divide what God has declared unified.

 

[bro.tan]

I am not ignoring anything you are saying. I am reading the whole counsel of God instead of isolating a few verses and building a system around them.

You keep saying we only reject “sacrificial laws,” but Paul does not limit the argument that way. “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law” ~Galatians 2:16. He does not divide it into ceremonial versus moral when speaking of justification. The issue is works as a basis of being declared righteous before God.

You say baptism brings you under the blood and removes only past sins. But Scripture says, “By one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified” ~Hebrews 10:14. Perfected for ever does not mean forgiven up to today and then on probation tomorrow.

You are also misusing Romans 3:25. “Remission of sins that are past” is explaining God’s forbearance before the cross. It is not teaching that Christ only covers pre-baptism sins. If that were true, then Romans 8:1 would not say, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.” No condemnation means none remains.

You appeal to Hebrews 10:26 as if any willful sin after conversion brings damnation. But the context is rejecting Christ’s sacrifice and going back to the old covenant system ~Hebrews 10:29. The entire chapter argues that His offering was made “once for all” ~Hebrews 10:10. If each willful failure cancels salvation, then His sacrifice was not once for all.

You are mixing grace and law as co-grounds of eternal life. Scripture says plainly, “If by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace” ~Romans 11:6. Salvation is not Christ plus sustained law-keeping. It is Christ alone.

Obedience matters. True faith produces it. “We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:10. But notice the order. We are created first. The works follow. They do not keep us justified.

The gospel is not: Christ forgives your past, now you must keep yourself saved by not willfully sinning.
The gospel is: Christ bore the full penalty of sin, satisfied God’s justice, and grants eternal life to all who believe. “He that hath the Son hath life” ~1 John 5:12.

That is the biblical answer.

I'm glad to see you understand you just don't agree or believe this part of Paul writing. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27). Let's go into Revelation 21: 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Mark1230]

I'm glad to see you understand you just don't agree or believe this part of Paul writing. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27). Let's go into Revelation 21: 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I'm so grateful for the sinless among us. Where would we be without them?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Such are of this world in fact.
They peddle Gay issues as god and abortion on demand and undermine children to be depraved sexual trash. Demanding their works are of of their gods ? are for the good of all ! or else they will deal with any who do not obay their dictates !

They turn everything upside down in relation to God ! but carnal and carnal religious are notworthy of God in fact, for they know not !

 

[rvmb]

You are carving the Bible into pieces God never carved. Yes, Paul was called uniquely. Yes, he received revelation directly from Christ ~Galatians 1:12. But he did not preach a different saving gospel. After defining the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:3–4, Paul says, “whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed” ~1 Corinthians 15:11. Same message. Same salvation.

Galatians 2:7–9 is about different audiences, not different gospels. And Peter himself says, “through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they” ~Acts 15:11. One grace. Not two programs.

When Paul warns, “If any… preach any other gospel… let him be accursed” ~Galatians 1:8, he leaves no room for parallel saving messages.

There is one cross, one Christ, one gospel. Do not divide what God has declared unified.

""But he did not preach a different saving gospel.""
Paul - 1 Tim 1:16, Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
Peter Acts 2:38-45
and you see no differences ?
Really ? :)

 

[bdavidc]

""But he did not preach a different saving gospel.""
Paul - 1 Tim 1:16, Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
Peter Acts 2:38-45
and you see no differences ?
Really ? :)

Really!

You are seeing differences because you are comparing moments in history, not the message of salvation itself. The Bible never teaches two saving gospels. Not once.

Paul says the gospel he preached is this: “Christ died for our sins… was buried… and rose again the third day” ~1 Corinthians 15:3–4. That is not Paul’s opinion. That is the saving message.

Now listen carefully. After stating it, Paul shuts the door on division: “whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed” ~1 Corinthians 15:11. Either Paul is telling the truth, or the two-gospel idea collapses right there. He says I and the other apostles preached the same thing.

You point to Acts 2:38 as different. But Peter himself later explains salvation plainly: “through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” ~Acts 10:43. Not two methods. Not two programs. Faith in Christ.

And when the apostles faced the salvation question head-on in Acts 15, Peter did not defend a Jewish gospel. He declared, “through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they” ~Acts 15:11. Jews saved like Gentiles. One grace. One way.

Paul warns with absolute severity: “If any man preach any other gospel… let him be accursed” ~Galatians 1:8. If Peter had a different saving gospel, Paul would have condemned him. Instead, they gave each other “the right hands of fellowship” ~Galatians 2:9. Unity, not contradiction.

Here is the real issue. Dividing the gospel usually comes from trying to force Scripture into systems instead of letting Scripture speak. But the cross does not split. Christ does not save one group one way and another group another way. “Neither is there salvation in any other” ~Acts 4:12.

One Savior.
One cross.
One gospel.

You can multiply distinctions all day, but when a sinner asks, “What must I do to be saved?” the answer never changes: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” ~Acts 16:31.

That is the message Peter preached.
That is the message Paul preached.
And that is the only message that saves.

 

[bro.tan]

Such are of this world in fact.
They peddle Gay issues as god and abortion on demand and undermine children to be depraved sexual trash. Demanding their works are of of their gods ? are for the good of all ! or else they will deal with any who do not obay their dictates !

They turn everything upside down in relation to God ! but carnal and carnal religious are notworthy of God in fact, for they know not !

Paul says in Romans 8: 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[rvmb]

Really!

You are seeing differences because you are comparing moments in history, not the message of salvation itself. The Bible never teaches two saving gospels. Not once.

Paul says the gospel he preached is this: “Christ died for our sins… was buried… and rose again the third day” ~1 Corinthians 15:3–4. That is not Paul’s opinion. That is the saving message.

Now listen carefully. After stating it, Paul shuts the door on division: “whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed” ~1 Corinthians 15:11. Either Paul is telling the truth, or the two-gospel idea collapses right there. He says I and the other apostles preached the same thing.

You point to Acts 2:38 as different. But Peter himself later explains salvation plainly: “through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” ~Acts 10:43. Not two methods. Not two programs. Faith in Christ.

And when the apostles faced the salvation question head-on in Acts 15, Peter did not defend a Jewish gospel. He declared, “through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they” ~Acts 15:11. Jews saved like Gentiles. One grace. One way.

Paul warns with absolute severity: “If any man preach any other gospel… let him be accursed” ~Galatians 1:8. If Peter had a different saving gospel, Paul would have condemned him. Instead, they gave each other “the right hands of fellowship” ~Galatians 2:9. Unity, not contradiction.

Here is the real issue. Dividing the gospel usually comes from trying to force Scripture into systems instead of letting Scripture speak. But the cross does not split. Christ does not save one group one way and another group another way. “Neither is there salvation in any other” ~Acts 4:12.

One Savior.
One cross.
One gospel.

You can multiply distinctions all day, but when a sinner asks, “What must I do to be saved?” the answer never changes: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” ~Acts 16:31.

That is the message Peter preached.
That is the message Paul preached.
And that is the only message that saves.

""The Bible never teaches two saving gospels. Not once.""
****
Was David, Abraham, Moses, Noah saved by 1 Cor 15:1-4 ?
Were they Eph 1:13 SEALED with the HS by believing 1 Cor 15:1-4 ?
Psalms 51:11 was David ever afraid of losing the HS ?
****
1 Gal 11-12 - the Gospel taught to Paul ONLY.
Gal 2:6 "they' taught Paul NOTHING
1 Tim 1:16 - Paul the first saved by that Gospel
Eph 1:13 - Sealed with HS by Gospel belief ALONE - no lay hands required.
**
BEFORE Rom-Philemon
Acts 8:15-17
Peter, John - lay hands REQUIRED to receive the HS
***
Using verses, explain that difference

 

[bro.tan]

Let's take a look at 1 John 5: 1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

We still have to keep the Lord's Commandments brothers and Sisters. Jesus says in (Luke:4:4) And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

The reference point for Christians is the Bible, the revelation of God to mankind and source book for God's commands to us, known as the divine Law. God's laws are holy and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Romans:7:12). They are the instructions for the way we should conduct our lives. Yet throughout history we see people trying to side-step the laws of God. Even today many Christian churches do not place as much emphasis on observing God's law as they do on ‘love’. But the fact is, we need both!

 

[bro.tan]

Psalms 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. 3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. 4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. 5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Look at verse 5, the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. The ungodly will not stand in the congregation of the righteous. What does this mean?