Interpretation of the Bible through the Demonstration of God

[Episkopos]

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for one day: teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime." Old Proverb

1 Cor. 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

With all the methods that people can come up with in order to properly understand the bible...you never hear the method described in the bible itself. And that method is by the demonstration of God.

The apostles of Jesus saw Jesus act long before they understood what Jesus was really doing. Jesus demonstrated to His disciples the things He set out to teach them...in word but also in power.

Paul was knocked off his horse and struck blind as a demonstration of God's power and immediacy. And Paul himself says that he preached the gospel in power and not just in word. Paul taught by demonstration of God's power...just like Jesus did and His disciples followed suit.

1 Thess. 1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.

Jesus said that the Spirit would teach us all things...that we would have no need that men should teach us. Now, the Spirit's words can only mean something to us if we know the context of those words. Some would say we need the historical context....but no one can go back in history to see the true reality of those times. People endlessly speculate. But even going back in history would only be worthwhile if we could experience first hand what we read about in the bible.

Is God still the same today as back then? Can He not do for us as He did for others? So then God still instructs us through demonstration...IF...and big if...we come to God with faith believing He can teach us as He taught the people we read about. Of course most people prefer the safety of keeping God at a safe distance in order to speculate ABOUT God and the bible while remaining fully ignorant that He is looking to show us His ways through the demonstration of His presence and power.

 

[Episkopos]

The church is meant to demonstrate God's love to the world. Speculating about God's love and arguing over who has the better explanation has no place whatsoever in the church of God. That is an assignment of carnal men towards other carnal men. When men squabble over bible verses it brings death...even as God means the verses to bring life. So then a human interpretation robs the words of God of their benefit and subverts what is meant to give life...bringing them down to hell's door.

But how can we teach the things of God without having known His ways...or have seen Him operate in our midst?

Only faith brings God to us in the form of the demonstration towards actual knowledge of God. Not just the knowledge ABOUT God...but a first hand experience of God.

How many times do we hear that Christianity is based on a relationship...yet few indeed even believe an actual encounter is even possible with God? Can you say...lip service?

People demonstrate their lack of faith and experience of God by their actions.

But we can turn to God with faith in His ability to back up His words with the demonstration of His ways as instruction INTO His ways. I think that this is the way the church is meant to grow into Him. And freely we have received...free;y we give. So then His demonstration of the gospel gives us the grace to pass that on to the world by the continuing demonstration of His life and power that are now IN US.

Doesn't that beat speculation?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for one day: teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime. Old Proverb

1 Cor. 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

With all the methods that people can come up with in order to properly understand the bible...you never hear the method described in the bible itself. And that method is by the demonstration of God.

The apostles of Jesus saw Jesus act long before they understood what Jesus was really doing. Jesus demonstrated to His disciples the things He set out to teach them...in word but also in power.

Paul was knocked off his horse and struck blind as a demonstration of God's power and immediacy. And Paul himself says that he preached the gospel in power and not just in word. Paul taught by demonstration of God's power...just like Jesus did and His disciples followed suit.

1 Thess. 1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.

Jesus said that the Spirit would teach us all things...that we would have no need that men should teach us. Now, the Spirit's words can only mean something to us if we know the context of those words. Some would say we need the historical context....but no one can go back in history to see the true reality of those times. People endlessly speculate. But even going back in history would only be worthwhile if we could experience first hand what we read about in the bible.

Is God still the same today as back then? Can He not do for us as He did for others? So then God still instructs us through demonstration...IF...and big if...we come to God with faith believing He can teach us as He taught the people we read about. Of course most people prefer the safety of keeping God at a safe distance in order to speculate ABOUT God and the bible while remaining fully ignorant that He is looking to show us His ways through the demonstration of His presence and power.

They marveled over Jesus, even His speech, because He spoke with authority, unlike their leaders.. And the disciples marveled too, because He had the power to even make the wind and waves obey Him.

This power was also displayed through Paul many times, as with Saphira and her husband, and with healing, etc.

In a sense, we are all become cessationists, at least to varying degrees. We are the church spoken of: you have little strength/power, but still you did not deny Me And kept My word.

But we seem to have...made allowances for our lack of power that doesn't reflect badly on us, like...God doesn't miraculously fill jars with food supplies anymore, instead He gives us money to buy more food. Or...God doesn't heal any more very much because blah, blah, blah.

So we try to come up with explanations for our lack of power instead of wondering WHY it is so.

We are rich and in need of nothing, right? We have all we need, so it has to be that God doesn't do that much any more, because otherwise, we would have to address the problem and we would have to say, wait a minute...where is the God of Paul...?

 

[Episkopos]

They marveled over Jesus, even His speech, because He spoke with authority, unlike their leaders.. And the disciples marveled too, because He had the power to even make the wind and waves obey Him.

This power was also displayed through Paul many times, as with Saphira and her husband, and with healing, etc.

In a sense, we are all become cessationists, at least to varying degrees. We are the church spoken of: you have little strength/power, but still you did not deny Me And kept My word.

But we seem to have...made allowances for our lack of power that doesn't reflect badly on us, like...God doesn't miraculously fill jars with food supplies anymore, instead He gives us money to buy more food. Or...God doesn't heal any more very much because blah, blah, blah.

So we try to come up with explanations for our lack of power instead of wondering WHY it is so.

We are rich and in need of nothing, right? We have all we need, so it has to be that God doesn't do that much any more, because otherwise, we would have to address the problem and we would have to say, wait a minute...where is the God of Paul...?

The reality is that people today are able to put faith in the bible...without actually believing what the bible is saying. The bible is accepted as authoritave without having any practical authority in real life. This is the sad situation we find we are in today....if not ourselves directly, yet all are affected by this mass migration from the truth.

So there is a disconnect going on...a "positional" acceptance of God without any real connection to God. So then the false doctrines come home to roost. They do great damage to the faith and righteousness of people. Luther came up with a false sense of security...and people foolishly accepted this. So then they who have done so are no longer in contact with their true state.

The bigger the lie, the easier it is to believe.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm off to pick up some furniture. I will be back to read more later. Its a good thread, even though you will get defensive argument, as always, from the elite.

 

[marks]

1 Cor. 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

That is exactly how the Apostle taught.

These demonstrations of the Power of God were the Authentication of his ministry.

Do you claim this for yourself?

 

[marks]

Is God still the same today as back then? Can He not do for us as He did for others? So then God still instructs us through demonstration...IF...and big if...we come to God with faith believing He can teach us as He taught the people we read about.

Good question, that!

But not, is God the same, of course He is!

And not, Can God do this, or course He can!

But it sure sounds to me that rather than, Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God, you'd prefer to see something experientially, is that what you are saying?

I always caution people, if you go in search of some experience your are pretty sure to find it, but it may not be what you think it is.

I just know that there are plenty of voice to listen to once you disregard the Bible as your source for truth.

The reality is that people today are able to put faith in the bible...without actually believing what the bible is saying.

This is what many claim, though not in truth.

One can say one believes the Bible, but when one promotes that which is not Biblical, well, what should one think?

 

[marks]

2 Corinthians 3

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Beholding as in a glass . . . a mirror . . . the glory of the Lord. How could that be? How would that happen?

It transforms us, when we see it. We're changed into that same image, the image we see as in the mirror.

We all, that is, who have turned to the Lord.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

One can say one believes the Bible, but when one promotes that which is not Biblical, well, what should one think?

The answer is obvious. A MANUFACTURED THEOLOGY.

Christians have been warned over and over again to BEWARE. A modern acronym for that is B.O.L.O. (Be on the look out).

Beware of false brethren, false teachers, false prophets, and false apostles. And how will they be distinguished? The prophet Isaiah told us about the test a long time ago in Isa 8:20:

“To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them.”

What is "this Word"? The written Word of God, the Holy Bible, all Scripture. There are times when the entire Old Testament is called "the Law". So unless a person's theology is solidly grounded in the Bible, disregard it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The reality is that people today are able to put faith in the bible...without actually believing what the bible is saying

That has been Gods complaint for a long time. These people honor Me with their lips but keep their hearts far from Me.

Strangely, it feels to me (a lot of the time) that God keeps HIS heart from ME. I know He doesn't. I know it's the true fast, in spirit. But it feels like this. At times I am peaceful in it and other times I am cranky in it. And a few weeks can feel like a few years. Its always for my good, but it doesn't feel that way. Instead it feels like abandonment and bewilderment. I'm in a cranky phase of it the past few days or I wouldn't even be talking about it. Just ignore me.

 

[Episkopos]

Man likes to try figuring things out for himself. The carnal man takes great pride in his ability to use his mind. Such is the futility of man's ways. As in the popular sayings....the last thing a man will do is look at the instructions or ask for directions.

But God short-circuits man's usual process and goes straight to the heart.

The New Covenant is about a NEW HEART. A heart that desires God and His life. This new heart is not the life itself....but the desire for it...by love. So then we are made brethren by His love in us. Now many will say they have this new heart but lie because there is no love in them They are on religious witch hunts with their old carnal minds. So these are false brothers.

Now once the heart is converted we are still only half-saved...the mind needs to be renewed so that it mirrors the mind of Christ. God did His part but we must now COOPERATE with God in the salvation process of having Christ formed in us.

Did I mention that people like to try understanding the things of God with their futile attempts of the yet carnal mind? It is a futile thing to try understanding the things of God with the carnal mind. So many will fail here. They will try perfecting themselves in the flesh by bible studies and listening to ear-tickling sermons until they become indoctrinated and vaccinated against the truth.

But these have forsaken the way of love. You can't make your heart love. To love is to put the heart first...not the mind. Let the heart lead and the mind will follow. How many live from the heart? And that is why so few men understand spiritual things.

God's way is hearts and then minds. Even the military doctrine is to try winning hearts and minds. (in that order)

So then the way of love and therefore the way of God is the heart leading the mind.

The way of the mind is human philosophy and vanity.

God demonstrates His selfless love to us so that we might take it into our hearts like a contagion. When our hearts line up with His own...He transports us into the kingdom of His Son....where He is.

David was a man also after His own heart....not mind. With the mind David sinned against the Lord. But David was primarily a man of the heart. And so must all believers become for the salvation process to be complete.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

people like to try understanding the things of God with their futile attempts of the yet carnal mind? So many will fail here. They will try perfecting themselves in the flesh

I was stuck there for years, trying to perfect myself. A combination of pride, not wanting to die, and satans mutterings to cement me there.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But...it was all to learn the obedience of trust. That struggle is common. Even the Galatians got stuck in it, trying to perfect by the flesh what was begun by the Spirit. But after you have suffered for a while, He will make you perfect in the obedience of trust, establish, strengthen and settle you.

 

[Episkopos]

But...it was all to learn the obedience of trust. That struggle is common. Even the Galatians got stuck in it, trying to perfect by the flesh what was begun by the Spirit. But after you have suffered for a while, He will make you perfect in the obedience of trust, establish, strengthen and settle you.

Amen! And you know the people that rail so much against the "foolish" Galatians are usually Galatians themselves...just like they who condemn the rich young ruler would never consider forsaking all to follow Christ either. I think people would rather condemn the same traits they have but in others rather than take a good look at themselves. Rather, we all need to take responsibility for our own actions and motivations and go easy on others...knowing how easy it is to fall into the carnal traps and the snares of the devil. That would be the oft neglected way of love, however. Never very popular.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, and men who say they turned their lives over to God and have been in peace with no struggles since then, are very suspect to me. I don't need everyone to experience everything exactly as me, but even Jesus learned the obedience of trust through the things He suffered, and if there is no suffering or struggle, I don't think the obedience of trust is being learned.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, and men who say they turned their lives over to God and have been in peace with no struggles since then, are very suspect to me. I don't need everyone to experience everything exactly as me, but even Jesus learned the obedience of trust through the things He suffered, and if there is no suffering or struggle, I don't think the obedience of trust is being learned.

And it's the people who have not suffered in their own sins that tend to be so easy on judging others. These people AVOID suffering by stepping on other people.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Even the process of an earthly birth, going from a larger space to a narrow, confining space and the struggle to push through it into a wider space, speaks of He and us in our birth. And you do eventually pass through that claustrophobic narrow space and into a place where you can rest. It widens and you can breathe and rest. He...enlargens your territory.

 

[Episkopos]

Even the process of an earthly birth, going from a larger space to a narrow, confining space and the struggle to push through it into a wider space, speaks of He and us in our birth. And you do eventually pass through that claustrophobic narrow space and into a place where you can rest. It widens and you can breathe and rest. He...enlargens your territory.

Well said...the narrow way! :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And it's the people who have not suffered in their own sins that tend to be so easy on judging others. These people AVOID suffering by stepping on other people.

Hmm...yes. A man who is forgiven little will forgive little. But a man who has been forgiven of much will also forgive much...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And it's the people who have not suffered in their own sins that tend to be so easy on judging others. These people AVOID suffering by stepping on other people.

It is the rich grinding the faces of the poor into the dust. And making sad those who God did not want to be sad and having encouraged those you shouldn't have.