IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[Fred J]

THOSE WHO BELIEVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST , may be water baptized .

That happened after Jesus' death and resurrection, and commissioned His discipled Apostles, to proclaim the full Gospel unto salvation to all nations.

As Jesus commissioned them. first to make disciple of all nations, and then only baptize them in the name of the FATHER, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

But before since He have not yet come, and yet came during John, He was just beginning to disciple the Gospel unto salvation (grace and truth) to His disciples.

But the Gospel unto repentance and water baptism were up and going beginning with John the Baptist, even continuing with Jesus Christ and His disciples.

No matter what, whether in the Gospel or book of Acts, yet people were getting 'water baptized for the remission of sins', before or after they're saved.

The water is not the wombs water

This is totally 'debunked'.

Nor the water of any lake or etc
IT IS THE WATER OF THE WORD . So may that sink down deep .

Is this another whole new 'fallacy' from the disguised Bible scholars and theologians of today?

 

[keithr]

The believers in the remnant of Israel were in Christ just as the body of Christ and were brethren. God was reconciling the earth thru the remnant church and the heavens by the body of Christ

There is no two tier Christianity. Everybody who is a Christian is a member of the body of Christ. You have not shown any verses of Scripture to back up your claim that the early Church were not members of the body of Christ, just like all other believers of the Gospel.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 WEB

(12) For as the body is one, and has many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.​

(13) For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all given to drink into one Spirit.​

Ephesians 2:11-22 WEB

(11) Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “uncircumcision” by that which is called “circumcision”, (in the flesh, made by hands);​

(12) that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.​

(13) But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.​

(14) For he is our peace, who made both one, and broke down the middle wall of partition,​

(15) having abolished in his flesh the hostility, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man of the two, making peace;​

(16) and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, having killed the hostility thereby.​

(17) He came and preached peace to you who were far off and to those who were near.​

(18) For through him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.​

(19) So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,​

(20) being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone;​

(21) in whom the whole building, fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord;​

(22) in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.​

1 Corinthians 12:24-25 WEB

(24) whereas our presentable parts have no such need. But God composed the body together, giving more abundant honor to the inferior part,​

(25) that there should be no division in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another.​

1 Corinthians 10:16-17 WEB

(16) The cup of blessing which we bless, isn’t it a sharing of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, isn’t it a sharing of the body of Christ?​

(17) Because there is one loaf of bread, we, who are many, are one body; for we all partake of the one loaf of bread.​

John 17:20-23 WEB

(20) Not for these only do I pray, but for those also who will believe in me through their word,​

(21) that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.​

(22) The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one;​

(23) I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you loved me.​

Ephesians 4:4-5 WEB

(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;​

(5) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,​

The hope of our calling is the same for all Christians, from the very first Christians to the last.

 

[Doug]

Thee is no two tier Christianity. Everybody who is a Christian is a member of the body of Christ. You have not shown any verses of Scripture to back up your claim that the early Church were not members of the body of Christ, just like all other believers of the Gospel.

i never gave any basis to assert there are two tiers of faith because there is mor than one church.

Here is what I just posted about two churches:

Here we will examine, that if indeed, there is only one church.

The first notion to dispel is, that scripture identifies there being only one church in existence.

There was a church ( a congregation) in the wilderness before Christ came that worshiped the Lord...........[Acts 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
[Exodus 34:14 KJV] 14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:

If this church is acknowledged, is it unimaginable that there could be others formed during other dispensations?

Jesus established his church...........[Matthew 16:18 KJV] 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.............Lord Jesus chose twelve disciples to be apostles............[Luke 6:13 KJV] 13 And when it was day, he called [unto him] his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

[Acts 1:2, 4 KJV] 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 4 And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he], ye have heard of me...........Christ gave commandment to the apostles to stay in Jerusalem and wait for the promise of the Holy Ghost. This happened at Pentecost............[Acts 2:4 KJV] 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance...........Assembled there were Jews, and Peter stood up and preached........[Acts 2:14 KJV] 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
[Acts 2:41 KJV] 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls...........those that believed Peter were baptized, and were ADDED to them..............[Acts 2:47 KJV] 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved..........The Lord ADDED to them, the existing church, the church Jesus built during his time on earth. A new church was NOT formed at Pentecost. This church continued thru, and beyond the conversion of Paul.

This existing church, built by Jesus, was the church that Paul persecuted before his conversion. This was the church of God, the church at Jerusalem, the little flock........[Acts 8:1 KJV] 1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
[1Corinthians 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
This church was never called the body of Christ.

Paul was saved and chosen by the Lord Jesus to be an apostle to the Gentiles...........[Romans 11:13 KJV] 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Peter and Paul had separate apostleship..............[Galatians 2:8 KJV] 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)..........Peter was apostle to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles. Peter and Paul were not apostles over the same church. Their was no animosity between Peter and Paul. Paul could never have been selected as an apostle to the church in Jerusalem because he didn't meet the requirements. To be an apostle with Peter and the twelve, he would have to have been with the other apostles during the entire time Jesus was on earth, beginning from the baptism of John until the ascension of Christ..........[Acts 1:21-22 KJV] 21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Paul received revelations from the risen Christ Jesus............[Ephesians 3:3-4 KJV] 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)...............Among these revelations, Paul received knowledge of the church Jesus formed for this dispensation of grace. Christ revealed that the church in this dispensation was the body of Christ, and it's members are members of his body. Christ revealed offices and functions to be set in place in the body of Christ.............[1Corinthians 12:27-28 KJV] 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.........................Revealed was Christ as the head of the body............. [Colossians 1:18 KJV] 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence..............Nowhere was the church in Jerusalem, overseen by Peter and the apostles, referred to as being the body of Christ. Nowhere was it said that Jew and Gentile were one body in the church overseen by Peter. Only in the body of Christ was Jew and Gentile revealed to be reconciled in one body............... [Ephesians 2:16 KJV] 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Paul said that the body of Christ would sit in heavenly places..........[Ephesians 1:3 KJV] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
[Ephesians 2:6 KJV] 6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:..........Peter never spoke of himself, or his church, as sitting in heavenly places. Paul said that by the church, the body of Christ, the principalities and powers in heavenly places would know by the church, the body of Christ, the manifold wisdom of God..............[Ephesians 3:10 KJV] 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,..............this was not made known by Peter's church.

What was made known by the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom by Peter and the apostles was that their believing members, would become a holy nation and a kingdom of priests; they would reign with Christ in his earthly kingdom.................[Exodus 19:6 KJV] 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
[Revelation 20:6 KJV] 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years..............Only Israel was told they would be a kingdom of priests. Nowhere does Paul say the members of the body of Christ are, or will be made priests; this differentiates Peter's church from the body of Christ. Only Peter's church could have the expectation of being priests in the kingdom on earth.

The body of Christ is not the same church as Peter's church. Neither is it Peter's church fully manifested in knowledge thru the completed progressive revelation given to the apostle Paul. These two churches have different apostles. These two churches have different destinies; Peter's church is destined to reign with Christ on earth; the body of Christ is destined to dwell in heavenly places. Two churches with different purposes; Peter's church will reconcile the earth and be a blessing to the nations in the kingdom on earth; the body of Christ will reconcile the heavens and make know the wisdom of God. Scripture presents two distinct churches in Christ Jesus.

Footnote: In describing the church at Jerusalem I used the term "Peter's church" only out of convenience It was not Peter's church, It was The Lord Jess Christ's church. Peter was chosen to be one of it's apostles. He was in some sense a prominent apostle. Christ gave him the keys to the kingdom........[Matthew 16:19 KJV] 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven..........by this, Peter could chose Matthias as the replacement to Judas and not as some say Paul, who by the way didn't qualify to be so.

 

[No Pre-TB]

right I said there is no definitive scripture

There is plenty of scripture. Paul quotes it and Christ says it.

 

[Doug]

You have not shown any verses of Scripture to back up your claim that the early Church were not members of the body of Christ, just like all other believers of the Gospel.

I sent you my post but I added this to show how there were two churches

It has been determined that Paul was not qualified to be an apostle in Peter's church according to Acts 1:21-22, as discussed above, yet PAUL WAS AN APOSTLE............[Romans 1:1 KJV] 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,...........For Paul to be an apostle, he would have had to be set as an apostle in a DIFFERENT CHURCH. Paul was an apostle to the church, the body of Christ, which means, the body of Christ IS A DIFFERENT CHURCH, ANOTHER CHURCH.

[1Corinthians 12:28 KJV] 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.............In light of this verse, one can't say that Paul was NOT an apostle to a church, but rather, he was only an apostle to the Gentiles. This verse says apostles are set in the church.
The only conclusion that can be reached is that there are TWO CHURCHES.

 

[Fred J]

The water OF the WORD . In fact only the born again

IT IS THE WATER OF THE WORD . So may that sink down deep .

The water is THE WATER OF THE WORD . And the WORD is CHRIST JESUS , his gospel.

There's no scripture to support that Jesus said, 'the Word is the water' nor 'the water is the Word'.

Ephesians 5:
26. That He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.

This means, Jesus spoke proclaiming the 'word of GOD' drawing people unto repentance and salvation.

And in respond, those who received Him and believed in His name, He hence 'water baptized' them for the remission of sins.

Even when He used water to wash the feet of His disciples, He spoke the word as well, therefore both go hand in hand unto salvation and eternal life.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Fred J]

NOT an apostle to a church, but rather, he was only an apostle to the Gentiles. This verse says apostles are set in the church.
The only conclusion that can be reached is that there are TWO CHURCHES.

Repeatedly by 'Doug', a 'false' and 'twisted' version of the scripture and doctrine of the Holy Bible.

Matthew 15:
14. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

'keithr', take advice from the word of the Lord as quoted above, instead of you trying and trying in vain to convince 'blind' Doug.

Why i testify this, is there any verse that read, Paul was only an apostle to the Gentiles, and there are two 'divided' churches?

No! It's a claim of an 'imposter' and a 'counterfeit' again and again, sneaked in among us in this Bible Study Forum!

Let the Holy Bible scripture and doctrine be the 'truth', even me a 'liar', thank you very much.

Acts 9:
15. But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel.

There is account of Paul visiting the synagogue bearing Jesus' name, and apparently visited more scattered in the Gentile nations. (Acts 17:2)

He's unable to reach out to the children of Israel in their nation because he's the most wanted there and liable to be persecuted to death.

So he stayed away for many years, until one fine day he decided to meet Peter in Jerusalem, and also discuss the Jew and Gentile believer church divisional matter he faced in Gentile nations.

Next, why do i have to discuss again about the Jew and Gentile church matter, when scripturally the 'division' have been broken, and now they are the 'one body of Christ'?

As it is written, 'GOD is the HEAD of Christ, and Christ is the Head of the church, and man is the head of the woman', by Kingdom of GOD and church definition.

As it is written, 'church' or 'churches', period?

Didn't you learn 'babes in Christ', that Christ did not allow man to get the best out of Him?

'Ever learning and never come to the knowledge of the truth.'

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

 

[keithr]

The first notion to dispel is, that scripture identifies there being only one church in existence.

There was a church ( a congregation) in the wilderness before Christ came that worshiped the Lord...........[Acts 7:38 KJV] 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
[Exodus 34:14 KJV] 14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:

If this church is acknowledged, is it unimaginable that there could be others formed during other dispensations?

Moses and the Israelites wandering in the wilderness was not the Christian Church that Jesus built, built on the foundation that he was the Messiah and the Son of God (Matthew 16:16-18).

......The Lord ADDED to them, the existing church, the church Jesus built during his time on earth. A new church was NOT formed at Pentecost. This church continued thru, and beyond the conversion of Paul.

Correct. Jesus commanded them to increase the membership of the Church - Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB):

(19) Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,​

(20) teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.​

Paul was saved and chosen by the Lord Jesus to be an apostle to the Gentiles...........[Romans 11:13 KJV] 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Peter and Paul had separate apostleship..............[Galatians 2:8 KJV] 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)..........Peter was apostle to the Jews, and Paul to the Gentiles.

As Fred J has just pointed out, Paul was called to be an apostle to both the Gentiles and the Jews - Acts 9:15 (WEB):

(15) But the Lord said to him, “Go your way, for he is my chosen vessel to bear my name before the nations and kings, and the children of Israel.​

As Barnes' Notes says:

And the children of Israel - The Jews. This was done. He immediately began to preach to them, Act_9:20-22. Wherever he went, he preached the gospel first to them, and then to the Gentiles, Act_13:46; Act_28:17.​

Peter and Paul were not apostles over the same church. Their was no animosity between Peter and Paul. Paul could never have been selected as an apostle to the church in Jerusalem because he didn't meet the requirements.

Again there is just one Church, the one which Jesus established and has been growing in numbers since that time (and which Paul referred to as the church of God). Paul was not an apostle "to the church" in any place, he was an apostle of Jesus for all Christians in all places - 1 Corinthians 1:1-2 (WEB):

(1) Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,​

(2) to the assembly of God which is at Corinth; those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, both theirs and ours:​

There is just one bride of Christ, the Church, not multiple brides. There is just one body of Christ, the Church (Colossians 1:18,24), not multiple bodies - 1 Corinthians 12:12-14 (WEB):

(12) For as the body is one, and has many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.​

(13) For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all given to drink into one Spirit.​

(14) For the body is not one member, but many.​

Colossians 1:18 ISV

(18) He is also the head of the body, which is the church. ...​

Nowhere was the church in Jerusalem, overseen by Peter and the apostles, referred to as being the body of Christ.

No specific congregation is referred to as the body of Christ. Here are the only four verses that use the phrase "body of Christ":

Romans 7:4 WEB

(4) Therefore, my brothers, you also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you would be joined to another, to him who was raised from the dead, that we might produce fruit to God.​

1 Corinthians 10:16 WEB

(16) The cup of blessing which we bless, isn’t it a sharing of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, isn’t it a sharing of the body of Christ?​

1 Corinthians 12:27 WEB

(27) Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.​

Ephesians 4:12 WEB

(12) for the perfecting of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ;​

Nowhere was it said that Jew and Gentile were one body in the church overseen by Peter.

Peter also preached to Gentiles. Peter considered Paul to be a member of the same Church and agreed with all of Paul's letters - 2 Peter 3:15-16 WEB

(15) Regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote to you;​

(16) as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those, there are some things that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.​

Paul said that the body of Christ would sit in heavenly places..........[Ephesians 1:3 KJV] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

That passage doesn't mention the body of Christ. Are you suggesting that only the Ephesians were member of the body of Christ?! The word "us" is referring to all Christians.

.....Only Israel was told they would be a kingdom of priests. Nowhere does Paul say the members of the body of Christ are, or will be made priests; this differentiates Peter's church from the body of Christ. Only Peter's church could have the expectation of being priests in the kingdom on earth.

Exodus 19:5-6 WEB

(5) Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice, and keep my covenant, then you shall be my own possession from among all peoples; for all the earth is mine;​

(6) and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”​

Sadly the Israelites did not obey and keep the covenant, so they did not become a kingdom of priests.

1 Peter 2:9-10 WEB

(9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellence of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:​

(10) who in time past were no people, but now are God’s people, who had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.​

Peter is talking about Gentiles ("who in time past were no people") now becoming God's people. He is not referring to the "believing remnant of Israel", yet you claim that Peter was "apostle to the Jews".

The body of Christ is not the same church as Peter's church. Neither is it Peter's church fully manifested in knowledge thru the completed progressive revelation given to the apostle Paul. These two churches have different apostles. These two churches have different destinies; Peter's church is destined to reign with Christ on earth; the body of Christ is destined to dwell in heavenly places. Two churches with different purposes; Peter's church will reconcile the earth and be a blessing to the nations in the kingdom on earth; the body of Christ will reconcile the heavens and make know the wisdom of God. Scripture presents two distinct churches in Christ Jesus.

Revelation 20:6 WEB

(6) Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.​

All Christians will have a part in the first resurrection, and all will reign with Christ. There is no splitting into reigning over earth and heaven. Christians are destined to judge both humans and angels, not one or the other - 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 (WEB):

(2) Don’t you know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?​

(3) Don’t you know that we will judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?​

 

[keithr]

For Paul to be an apostle, he would have had to be set as an apostle in a DIFFERENT CHURCH.

Wrong assumption!

The only conclusion that can be reached is that there are TWO CHURCHES.

Wrong conclusion!

 

[amigo de christo]

Wrong assumption!


Wrong conclusion!

Dead wrong assumption and dead wrong conclusion from said man .
TRUTH .
THERE IS ONLY ONE GOSPEL , ONE CHURCH which is the body of and bride of CHRIST .
Paul would later come to the very one and self same gospel that peter , stephen and Christ and all had preached .
He would preach it to both the jews and gentiles IN E VERY synagoge he went too and from house to house .
As did peter also who preached to the jews would later preach the very one and same gospel to the gentile house of
cornelious .
Its ONE LORD , ONE BODY ONE CHURCH ONE BRIDE ONE KINGDOM
which consists of BELIEVING JEWS and GENTILES and access IN is preached BY THE GOSPEL and all who do BELEIVE
are added into it . Pretty simple if you ask me .

 

[amigo de christo]

Wrong assumption!


Wrong conclusion!

To the trenches one and to the trenches all , many decievers do abound and specially in these late and last hours .

 

[Doug]

Repeatedly by 'Doug', a 'false' and 'twisted' version of the scripture and doctrine of the Holy Bible.

Matthew 15:
14. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

'keithr', take advice from the word of the Lord as quoted above, instead of you trying and trying in vain to convince 'blind' Doug.

Why i testify this, is there any verse that read, Paul was only an apostle to the Gentiles, and there are two 'divided' churches?

No! It's a claim of an 'imposter' and a 'counterfeit' again and again, sneaked in among us in this Bible Study Forum!

Let the Holy Bible scripture and doctrine be the 'truth', even me a 'liar', thank you very much.

Acts 9:
15. But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel.

There is account of Paul visiting the synagogue bearing Jesus' name, and apparently visited more scattered in the Gentile nations. (Acts 17:2)

He's unable to reach out to the children of Israel in their nation because he's the most wanted there and liable to be persecuted to death.

So he stayed away for many years, until one fine day he decided to meet Peter in Jerusalem, and also discuss the Jew and Gentile believer church divisional matter he faced in Gentile nations.

Next, why do i have to discuss again about the Jew and Gentile church matter, when scripturally the 'division' have been broken, and now they are the 'one body of Christ'?

As it is written, 'GOD is the HEAD of Christ, and Christ is the Head of the church, and man is the head of the woman', by Kingdom of GOD and church definition.

As it is written, 'church' or 'churches', period?

Didn't you learn 'babes in Christ', that Christ did not allow man to get the best out of Him?

'Ever learning and never come to the knowledge of the truth.'

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

You edited what I said to make it say what I didn't

Here is the entire text..................
[1Corinthians 12:28 KJV] 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.............In light of this verse, one can't say that Paul was NOT an apostle to a church, but rather, he was only an apostle to the Gentiles. This verse says apostles are set in the church.
The only conclusion that can be reached is that there are TWO CHURCHES.

I was saying that this verse would prohibit saying Paul was not a true apostle set in the church

 

[Doug]

Moses and the Israelites wandering in the wilderness was not the Christian Church that Jesus built, built on the foundation that he was the Messiah and the Son of God (Matthew 16:16-18).

Of course not, how could it be since Christ didnt come yet
This comment does nothing to refute that there was, as scripture says, a church in the old testament, which was not the church in Jerusalem, the believing remnant nor was it the body of Christ.

 

[Doug]

As Fred J has just pointed out, Paul was called to be an apostle to both the Gentiles and the Jews - Acts 9:15 (WEB):

(15) But the Lord said to him, “Go your way, for he is my chosen vessel to bear my name before the nations and kings, and the children of Israel.
As Barnes' Notes says:

And the children of Israel - The Jews. This was done. He immediately began to preach to them, Act_9:20-22. Wherever he went, he preached the gospel first to them, and then to the Gentiles, Act_13:46; Act_28:17.

What does scripture say?................[Gal 2:8 KJV] 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)...........it says Peter 's apostleship was to Jews and Paul's was to Gentiles
Of course Paul's gospel and ministry went also to Jews

 

[Doug]

Again there is just one Church, the one which Jesus established and has been growing in numbers since that time (and which Paul referred to as the church of God). Paul was not an apostle "to the church" in any place, he was an apostle of Jesus for all Christians in all places - 1 Corinthians 1:1-2 (WEB):

Paul was not an apostle in any one church. He went on missionary journeys and established churches along the way.

He oversaw the churches and established church offices such as bishops and deacons. He established church doctrine.

Peter was leader of the church formed in Christ's ministry. They were still under the law and met in the temple.

Paul preached we arent under law and could not be a co-apostle with Peter, Paul would still have to teach law keeping

These two churches could not be compatible and necessitated there being two separate churches

 

[Doug]

No specific congregation is referred to as the body of Christ. Here are the only four verses that use the phrase "body of Christ":

The church as a whole is called the body of Christ

Only 4 verses that say the body of Christ but it;s also just called the body.......................[Eph 1:22-23 KJV] 22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

[Doug]

Peter also preached to Gentiles. Peter considered Paul to be a member of the same Church and agreed with all of Paul's letters - 2 Peter 3:15-16 WEB

Preaching to Gentiles is not the same as preaching Jew and Gentile are in one body, neither that there is no longer Jew or Greek
So are you saying Paul was considered to be an apostle in Peter's church?

 

[Doug]

That passage doesn't mention the body of Christ. Are you suggesting that only the Ephesians were member of the body of Christ?! The word "us" is referring to all Christians.

The Ephesians were not the only ones in the body
Ephesians 1: 3 doesn't mention the body but that's who he writing to.......................[Eph 1:3 KJV] 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:..........us is the body
[Eph 1:23 KJV] 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all..............his body is the church

 

[Doug]

Sadly the Israelites did not obey and keep the covenant, so they did not become a kingdom of priests.

They will in the kingdom under the new covenant

 

[Doug]

Peter is talking about Gentiles ("who in time past were no people") now becoming God's people. He is not referring to the "believing remnant of Israel", yet you claim that Peter was "apostle to the Jews".

[1Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
Peter was writing to Jews
The people who were not a people is unbelieving Israel