The first resurrection applies to believing Israel........old testament saints and those who believed in Jesus
The body of Christ has a mystery "rapture"
IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?
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The body of Christ has a mystery "rapture"
The saints who judge the world is believing Israel
We!!!!!! will judge angels is the body of Christ
"To whom it may concern,"
The text plainly read 'church', universally and biblically there's only 'one body of Christ'.
For the initial division between the Jews and Gentiles have been 'broken' by GOD's New Covenant.
And now they are united in 'oneness' and 'togetherness' as 'a church' and 'one body of Christ'.
Next, from the book of Acts, Paul is the 13th chosen Apostle of Christ who bear Jesus' name to the unsaved Gentiles, kings and children of Israel.
Based on his epistles to the church in nations, he is also an Apostle besides the 12, assigned to further bear Jesus' name to the established universal church.
He's absolutely not according to that verse, an appointed apostle assigned in a church congregation.
Apparently the verse talks about GOD set some in the church congregation itself, various gifted 'clergies' to serve one another.
As a result to Doug's conclusion and confusion rather, there's 'two body of Christ'
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There isn't a Peter's church and a Paul's church, etc., there is just one Church and it belongs to Jesus - 1 Corinthians 11:3 (WEB):
(3) But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Ephesians 2:19-22 WEB
(19) So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
(20) being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone;
(21) in whom the whole building, fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord;
(22) in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.
i used Peter's choice for convince to differentiate it from the body of Christ
You say there is one church, very well.
Paul was an apostle, right? So Paul would be an apostle along with the twelve. Since there is only one church they would all be apostles in it, right? The problem is that to be an apostle in Jesus's church you had to with Jesus beginning with John's baptism (Acts 1:21-22) Paul did not, so Paul couldn't be an apostle in Jesus's church
An apostle oversees many churches, establishes doctrine, establishes order, designates qualifications for pastors and deacons Right?
Problem is, in Jesus's church there are no pastors or deacons, it is a church that worshipped in the temple............... [Act 3:1 KJV] 1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, [being] the ninth [hour].
Peter kept the law........................[Act 10:13-14 KJV] 13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
[Act 10:28 KJV] 28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Paul taught we aren't under the law......................[Rom 6:14 KJV] 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[Act 2:44, 46 KJV] 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; ... 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, ...................What would Paul and the twelve have in common? How could there possibly be all one church when there exists such discrepancies between them?
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friend, Great question; I fear many just do not wish to recognize God's Different Programs, resulting in
mixing them up into one, and ignoring all The Scriptural Differences. Appreciate all your helpful postings...
Biblical 'Representations' of Twelve and ONE
Amen.
Extra for any who wish to prayerfully / Carefully examine:
Bible Answer To Confused church Bewilderment!
'Doug', you seem to surprise me, that's the way to go about it, reasoning your points.
i believe you're referring to how Matthias was chosen to replace Judas Iscariot, as to be called an Apostle of Jesus Christ.
But this choice was made by Peter based on the 'wisdom', 'rank' and 'key to the Kingdom' given him.
And the 11 of them cast lot (voted) on those who were with Christ from the beginning as well, and it fell on Matthias.
On the other hand, Paul was personally chosen by Lord Jesus Christ, as how He chose the 12 in the beginning, that's why Paul is the 13th Apostle of Jesus Christ.
And Apostle Peter mention Paul in his epistle to the church calling him 'brother Paul', and expressed about his teaching and the scriptures, the unlearned and unstable 'wrest' to their own destruction.
And Paul based on his epistles engaged with many church with his greetings, teachings, corrections and blessings, he wrote to or visited the ones he did not establish.
Apparently some of these church were established by the other Apostles, yet as fellow 13th Apostle, Paul did minister to them freely.
And historically we perceive that all these epistles of the Apostles, even Paul's, did 'circulate' among these established church in nations, even though address specifically to one church .
These clergies in a congregation were established by Timothy, as Paul's end days nearing he wrote to Timothy, as passing on the 'baton' to Timothy.
They went up into the Temple at the hour of prayer, but there's no word to say they 'worshipped', just your assumption again, i get it.
Why didn't you assume that they probably ministered to some there blending among the Jews during prayers, as Jesus prior did in the Temple?
Moreover, Jesus instructed His disciples, yet to learn from the Temple clergy, but do not do what they do, remember?
Another pointer from Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:
20. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the Law, as under the Law, that I might gain them that are under the Law;
Even Paul had Timothy circumcised as a measure of missionary strategy to gain the trust of unbelieving Jews, to somehow minister and win them over to Christ.
This was during the time when Peter had no clear understanding in Gentile's salvation matter, yet thinking by the Law and Christ's.
Remember according to Paul, the Law of GOD is Spiritual, and the flaw is in man who is weak to accomplish them?
But read the context, the Lord have taught Peter how to view the saved Gentiles onward, as He have made them 'clean', and not by the Law about food.
And later on we do read that Peter sat with the Gentiles and fellowshipped, only when met with the party sent by James, he withdrew himself from them, as not to offend them.
Likewise they were not under the Law but used the Law as a missionary strategy to win those bound by the Law over to Christ.
Again, as a missionary strategy continuing daily with one accord in the Temple like a common Jew.
And when given a chance, peacefully they would minister to the unbeliever Jews progressively in the Temple, as did their Master Jesus Christ.
Even there were unbelieving Jews in James congregation with Peter in Jerusalem when Paul visited, as Paul wrote about, even naming them as 'sneaked in Jews', remember?
This is referring to the church gathering and conducts then, held in home to home of believers, when it was the universal church then without division like today.
'Apostles', chosen and ordained by Lord Jesus Christ and the New Testament is the evidence what they have in common for the GLORY of GOD in Heaven.
No discrepancies between them, it's just they're different from one another and groomed differently according to their ability.
Therefore they spoke and conducted differently, but nevertheless individually accomplished to honor Christ.
As an example, the four Gospel and how differently each of them testified is the evidence.
Let's say, Grace the Ambassador, send four believers to watch a church event and write a report about it.
Surely according to their upbringing, grooming and ability their report will surely be different, and furthermore will be 'more' or 'less' from one another.
But nevertheless overall when the four is put together into context the content pertaining to the whole event is 'intact'.
On the other hand, if the work of them four were to be quite similar to one another, surely Grace the Ambassador know the four copied each other's work.
Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ
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""2) You pointed out that the AC is REVEALED ..THEN THE RAPTURE.
AHEM....THAT would be pretrib rapture.
He is REVEALED PRETRIB.""
My understanding is that the day of Christ is after the AC is revealed which is after the restrainer is removed which is after 1 Cor15:52 & 1 Thess 4:17, I could be wrong and am always happy to be shown the verses that show so :)
Wrong deduction. Peter directed that another person be chosen to replace Judas, based on the Scripture that he quoted, which was Psalms 109:8 (WEB):
(8) Let his days be few. Let another take his office.
In order to choose a replacement for Judas, who like them was with Jesus from the time of John the Baptist onwards, Peter directed that they should choose someone that had also been a witness to Jesus' ministry and resurrection. As the Good News Bible translates it - Acts 1:20-22 (GNB):
(20) "For it is written in the book of Psalms, 'May his house become empty; may no one live in it.' It is also written, 'May someone else take his place of service.'
(21-22) "So then, someone must join us as a witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. He must be one of the men who were in our group during the whole time that the Lord Jesus traveled about with us, beginning from the time John preached his message of baptism until the day Jesus was taken up from us to heaven."
He was not stating a new rule that all future apostles must have been with Jesus from the start of Jesus' ministry; he was stating that the replacement for Judas must have been with Jesus for all his ministry and resurrection.
They were still learning. Jesus said, after saying "I am going to my Father, and you won’t see me any more" (John 16:10), John 16:12-13 (WEB):
(12) “I have yet many things to tell you, but you can’t bear them now.
(13) However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
As Barnes' Notes comments:
I have yet many things to say ... - There were many things pertaining to the work of the Spirit and the establishment of religion which might be said. Jesus had given them the outline; he had presented to them the great doctrines of the system, but he had not gone into details. These were things which they could not then bear. They were still full of Jewish prejudices, and were not prepared for a full development of his plans. He probably refers here to the great change which were to take place in the Jewish system - the abolition of sacrifices and the priesthood, the change of the Sabbath, the rejection of the Jewish nation, etc. For these doctrines they were not prepared, but they would in due time be taught them by the Holy Spirit.
Paul revealed new things, and all the Apostles came into agreement with him. They were taught by the Holy Spirit.
Right
It's interesting they also chose him by casting lots ..................[Act 1:26 KJV] 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
I also think Petr having the keys plays a part here
Yes good point
Going into the temple ar the hour of prayer was a custom which I dont think in looking into it was in the law
They both preached Christ
They both were chosen by the Lord Jesus
They would have areas of doctrine in conflict like circumcision/ baptism
In regard to Peter and John going into the temple at the hour of prayer......I did think of Daniel praying 3 times a day and looked up this verse.........................[Psalm 55:17 KJV] 17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice................while not in the law as far as I know it is establlished in the Psalms
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
And a part here also; did the twelve use the 'keys' to break their great commission to "go into all the world"?:
"...when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived The Grace That Was Given
Unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto
the heathen, and they unto the circumcision." (Galatians 2:9 AV)
Are they then disobedient? Or is their 'keys' decision "Also bound in Heaven"?
Interesting, eh?
Yes this was the determination that to replace Judas they had to have these qualifications. The point I was making is that Paul would not qualify.
Just had a thought
One of the qualifications in Acts 1 :21-22 was "must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection."
[1Co 9:1 KJV] 1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?..............Paul did meet this requirement. He could be an apostle. However, not only could he not be a replacement apostle for Judas, but he also could not be set equally beside Peter and the others as an apostle if there was just one church at the time.
In regard to me citing Acts 3:1
I considered what you said and removed it. I want to be as accurate as possible in handling the word.
Here is what I wrote in it's place.......Here arises another problem, in the church in Jerusalem overseen by Peter, there are no pastors or deacons, but rather, the Levitical priesthood. Peter's church worshipped in the temple......... [Acts 5:42 KJV] 42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
[Acts 2:46 KJV] 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
............
It's good that you're starting to see the truth.
However, that's still an illogical deduction. There was only one Christian faith, just like there was only one Judaism faith. Your reasoning goes against what Paul wrote and against Jesus and God! Galatians 1:1 (GNB):
(1) From Paul, whose call to be an apostle did not come from human beings or by human means, but from Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from death.
An apostle is just someone who has been sent, an ambassador or messenger for whoever sent him/her. Jesus' chosen disciples (who he chose before his death and resurrection) and Paul (who he chose after his resurrection) were all sent by Jesus (after his resurrection). Jesus was also an apostle, because he had been sent by God - Hebrews 3:1 (WEB):
(1) Therefore, holy brothers, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Jesus;
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