Isaiah 53. Christ or the Nation of Israel?

[Nancy]

It' time for something new to argue about, lol! I would love to hear what some of you have to say about the "suffering servant" passages. Some (mostly Jewish people) believe this is speaking to the whole nation of Israel, some Christ. I have always been taught that is was most definitely Jesus Christ these passages refer to. So, while pondering the suffering servant passage-I started to wonder how the Jewish folk interpret it, so-I was reading up on that this morning...and as usual, I can see BOTH sides as being correct...have not-obv. done an exhaustive study on it, and prob. will not. So, any thoughts on this? :)

 

[Enoch111]

Some (mostly Jewish people) believe this is speaking to the whole nation of Israel, some Christ.

This was always simply a dodge to avoid the plain implications of this chapter. Philip made it perfectly clear to the Ethiopian. See Acts 8.

 

[Nancy]

This was always simply a dodge to avoid the plain implications of this chapter. Philip made it perfectly clear to the Ethiopian. See Acts 8.

Yes, this site I was on tried to explain that one away. And, there are several references to our Suffering Servant in the NT quoted from the OT...okay, this thread is dead in the water, me tinx... I was just curious about how the Jewish interpreted it....

 

[Harvest 1874]

Some (mostly Jewish people) believe this is speaking to the whole nation of Israel, some Christ.

This is the first time I have ever heard someone make that insinuation, I have never heard a Jew imply Chapter 53 pertains to the Jewish nation.

Although its true the nation of Israel did not recognize Jesus as their Messiah, felling to understand the object and the manner of his first advent, nevertheless I don't believe they would imagine that the prophecy of Isaiah 53 could possibly pertained themselves as a nation, its far to descriptive of an individual to be in reference to a nation.

 

[Nancy]

This is the first time I have ever heard someone make that insinuation, I have never heard a Jew imply Chapter 53 pertains to the Jewish nation.

Although its true the nation of Israel did not recognize Jesus as their Messiah, felling to understand the object and the manner of his first advent, nevertheless I don't believe they would imagine that the prophecy of Isaiah 53 could possibly pertained themselves as a nation, its far to descriptive of an individual to be in reference to a nation.

https://outreachjudaism.org/gods-suffering-servant-isaiah-53/

 

[Harvest 1874]

https://outreachjudaism.org/gods-suffering-servant-isaiah-53/

There are many prophecies which carry double meanings, that is applying to both fleshly Israel and Spiritual Israel, however the ability to distinguish between the two requires a spiritual mind, thus for the most part Israel after the flesh being composed of natural men (not spirit begotten) are thus unable to see anything beyond what the natural man can comprehend, they can only see what they imagine applies to themselves. Nevertheless it is quite a stretch for them to imagine Chapter 53 as pertaining to the nation as a whole.

Isaiah, Chapter 53, is primarily a picture of the last moments of Jesus’ life.

"In Isaiah, Chapter 53, we are presented with a stirring account of the suffering and death of Jesus. In Verse 1 he is referred to as the “arm” of the Lord. Verse 10 of the preceding chapter also refers to Jesus as the “arm” of the Lord. This verse reads, “The Lord has made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God.” What a gloriously reassuring promise this is! The thought of making “bare” the holy “arm” suggests that the glory and saving power of this mighty representative of the Creator is to be revealed worldwide: “All the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God.”

But with the opening of the next chapter the question is raised, “To whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?” Instead of being revealed in his glory and saving power, he is seen by Isaiah as “despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him....We did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.” (Verses 3, 4) Continuing the description of Jesus’ rejection, affliction, and death, Verse 7 reads, “He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opens not his mouth.”

Thus it was foretold that Jehovah’s “arm,” who was to bring deliverance and salvation to “all the ends of the earth,” must first be led as a lamb to the slaughter. So it was that when John the Baptist announced the presence of Jesus he said, “Behold the Lamb of God”—the One foretold in the Old Testament by both type and prophecy. (John 1:29) He is the One who will take away the sin of the world and open the way for all mankind to return to health and life." (The Creator's Grand Design, Page 33)

 

[Nancy]

There are many prophecies which carry double meanings, that is applying to both fleshly Israel and Spiritual Israel, however the ability to distinguish between the two requires a spiritual mind, thus for the most part Israel after the flesh being composed of natural men (not spirit begotten) are thus unable to see anything beyond what the natural man can comprehend, they can only see what they imagine applies to themselves. Nevertheless it is quite a stretch for them to imagine Chapter 53 as pertaining to the nation as a whole.

Isaiah, Chapter 53, is primarily a picture of the last moments of Jesus’ life.

"In Isaiah, Chapter 53, we are presented with a stirring account of the suffering and death of Jesus. In Verse 1 he is referred to as the “arm” of the Lord. Verse 10 of the preceding chapter also refers to Jesus as the “arm” of the Lord. This verse reads, “The Lord has made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God.” What a gloriously reassuring promise this is! The thought of making “bare” the holy “arm” suggests that the glory and saving power of this mighty representative of the Creator is to be revealed worldwide: “All the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God.”

But with the opening of the next chapter the question is raised, “To whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?” Instead of being revealed in his glory and saving power, he is seen by Isaiah as “despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him....We did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.” (Verses 3, 4) Continuing the description of Jesus’ rejection, affliction, and death, Verse 7 reads, “He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opens not his mouth.”

Thus it was foretold that Jehovah’s “arm,” who was to bring deliverance and salvation to “all the ends of the earth,” must first be led as a lamb to the slaughter. So it was that when John the Baptist announced the presence of Jesus he said, “Behold the Lamb of God”—the One foretold in the Old Testament by both type and prophecy. (John 1:29) He is the One who will take away the sin of the world and open the way for all mankind to return to health and life." (The Creator's Grand Design, Page 33)

Yes, you are correct and I do not disagree with a thing you have said.