John's First Epistle with its themes of love, light, etc., is so searching, and ties in with the same themes expressed by the same writer in the Gospel of John.
Jesus Afraid?
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I've always had Matthew, Mark, Luke and John as my favorites. But I can't do without Paul as he wrote the fruits of the Spirit into the Bible which gives me a guide on what I should be feeling from the Holy Spirit.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Jesus had the option to not go to the Cross.
So, the struggle was 2 fold, that was causing small blood vessels in his face to burst and rupture and bleed, dripping blood to the ground.
First, Jesus the man, who Is God......has Foreknowledge. He can read minds, and He can see the future.
He said..>"one of you will betray me".....and He knew exactly how., when, why, where......all of this.
He could SEE what Judas would do, and did do...., like watching a big screen, while at the same time he is sharing the bread and the cup with the rest of the Apostles...
What does that mean?
It means that Jesus, who is God manifested in a Virgin's womb, SAW His entire PASSION long before He had to endure it.
He saw the Cross and Himself on it... years before it happened.... and Christ The Lord had to live with this knowledge of what was coming to Him.
He went to sleep at night knowing what was coming to Him.
He woke up everyday and knew what was coming to Him.
When He as the Bread of Heaven come to earth, He knew before He left Heaven, what was coming to Him.
The night Christ was arrested, He was in the Garden....... and He was facing it...as a MAN., as God became one of us to save all of us.
He is SEEING the VISION>.., the trial, the scourging, ...carrying the Cross, and being Nailed to it, and Lifted up on it, for YOU...for your sin.
The NT tells you, ""that for the JOY that was set before Him....>He endured the Cross."
This means He saw the future beyond the Cross as well..
The Heavenly being that came to Jesus, was telling him this... talking to Him about that JOY that was just beyond the NAILS.
2nd.
Because Jesus didnt have to go through this that he had known was coming....... He had the option to not do it.
So, that STRUGGLE was the other part of His "agony".
See....., Christ the Lord is SEEING the Torture that is coming, and KNOWING He does not have to do it.
See that STRUGGLE?
It was so terrible in His heart, mind, soul, spirit, that he was popping blood vessels to try to deal with it.
How did He deal with it?
He said......""Not MY WILL......but YOURS FATHER........is what i am going to do".
RESULT ?
You get to go to heaven because He made that choice to Please The Father, and because He loves YOU so much.
Saint....Now you get to love Him back with your LIFE.
Give it to Him.
Tell Him...."God Here i am...>Use me.......i am YOURS. """
"i surrender ALL"
There is indeed something very simple and refreshing about reading the Gospels, certainly....
.
Though Jesus may, or may not, have known all the details pertaining to
what was in store for him, the prophet Isaiah gave him at least a hint of
what to expect.
• Isa 52:14-15 . . there were many who were appalled at him-- his
appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred
beyond human likeness --thus will he sprinkle many nations
The Romans whipped the Lord to within an inch of his life, slapped him
around, crowned him with thorns, and drove nails into his hands and his
feet. But that was child's play compared to what God did. By the time those
hours of darkness around the cross lifted; Christ's own mother would have
trouble recognizing him.
Though it's said that he was led to his death without protest (Isa 53:7)
according to the 22nd Psalm, Jesus did what any man would do when
undergoing severe abuse: he yelled at the top of his lungs with the strength
and volume of a roaring lion.
• Luke 23:48 . .When all the people who had gathered to witness this sight
saw what took place, they beat their breasts and went away.
Yes, of course they beat their breasts; and I suspect it was not only because
of the earthquake and the darkness, but also because they were having
trouble catching their breath. The extent of the Lord's injuries were so
horrific that they could scarcely tell he was the same man.
• Isa 53:5-6 . . But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed
for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and
by his wounds we are healed.
. . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own
way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
_
Though Jesus may, or may not, have known all the details pertaining to
what was in store for him, the prophet Isaiah gave him at least a hint of
what to expect.
• Isa 52:14-15 . . there were many who were appalled at him-- his
appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred
beyond human likeness --thus will he sprinkle many nations
The Romans whipped the Lord to within an inch of his life, slapped him
around, crowned him with thorns, and drove nails into his hands and his
feet. But that was child's play compared to what God did. By the time those
hours of darkness around the cross lifted; Christ's own mother would have
trouble recognizing him.
Though it's said that he was led to his death without protest (Isa 53:7)
according to the 22nd Psalm, Jesus did what any man would do when
undergoing severe abuse: he yelled at the top of his lungs with the strength
and volume of a roaring lion.
• Luke 23:48 . .When all the people who had gathered to witness this sight
saw what took place, they beat their breasts and went away.
Yes, of course they beat their breasts; and I suspect it was not only because
of the earthquake and the darkness, but also because they were having
trouble catching their breath. The extent of the Lord's injuries were so
horrific that they could scarcely tell he was the same man.
• Isa 53:5-6 . . But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed
for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and
by his wounds we are healed.
. . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own
way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
_
.
Most Christians will readily attest that Christ was fully God and fully Man,
while in reality they only believe he was a divine hominid rather than a bona
fide h.sapiens biologically related to Adam via David and Abraham.
Jesus was on track to become a high priest. Well; the letter to Hebrews says
that priests are chosen from among men because it's essential that they be
able to relate to the men they represent.
A divine hominid would likely have much in common with divine beings, but
certainly not all that much in common with human beings, viz: a divine
hominid for our priest would be like a bunny rabbit representing honey bees.
It just wouldn't work because the differences in the respective natures of
those two species makes it impossible for them to relate to each other.
• Heb 2:16-18 . .We all know that Jesus came to help the descendants of
Abraham, not to help the angels. Therefore, it was necessary for Jesus to be
in every respect like us, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our
merciful and faithful High Priest before God. He then could offer a sacrifice
that would take away the sins of the people. Since he himself has gone
through suffering and temptation, he is able to help us when we are being
tempted.
• Heb 4:15 . . This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he
faced all of the same trials we do.
• Isa 53:3 . . A man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
_
Most Christians will readily attest that Christ was fully God and fully Man,
while in reality they only believe he was a divine hominid rather than a bona
fide h.sapiens biologically related to Adam via David and Abraham.
Jesus was on track to become a high priest. Well; the letter to Hebrews says
that priests are chosen from among men because it's essential that they be
able to relate to the men they represent.
A divine hominid would likely have much in common with divine beings, but
certainly not all that much in common with human beings, viz: a divine
hominid for our priest would be like a bunny rabbit representing honey bees.
It just wouldn't work because the differences in the respective natures of
those two species makes it impossible for them to relate to each other.
• Heb 2:16-18 . .We all know that Jesus came to help the descendants of
Abraham, not to help the angels. Therefore, it was necessary for Jesus to be
in every respect like us, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our
merciful and faithful High Priest before God. He then could offer a sacrifice
that would take away the sins of the people. Since he himself has gone
through suffering and temptation, he is able to help us when we are being
tempted.
• Heb 4:15 . . This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he
faced all of the same trials we do.
• Isa 53:3 . . A man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
_
Jesus was tempted in all ways that we are, but remained without sin. The fear of death, suffering , humiliation, etc., all amounts to the temptation to not trust God. In Jesus' case, the temptation to not trust His Father. In ours, to not trust the Lord and His word. It's no little thing to be tempted by an imminent death, but perfect love casts out fear.
3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. Hebrews 12:3-4
.
• Heb 5:5-10 . . Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest,
but He who said to him: You are My son; today I have begotten you-- just
as He says also in another passage: You are a priest forever according to the
order of Melchizedek.
. . In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications
with loud crying and tears to the one able to save him from death, and he
was heard because of his piety.
. . . Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things which he
suffered. And having been made perfect, he became to all those who obey
him the source of eternal salvation, being designated by God as a high priest
according to the order of Melchizedek.
That passage is sometimes construed to suggest that Jesus came into this
world an imperfect man and needed his rough edges smoothed off. No; it
means that until he underwent the many slings and arrows of outrageous
misfortune that plague us all, he was unsuitable for the priesthood.
And he was already pious, but Jesus didn't know by personal experience
what it's like to comply with God's requirements as an h.sapiens in a world
gone mad with evil till he gave it a try himself.
Great Spirit: grant that I may not criticize my neighbor
Until I have walked a mile in his moccasins.
Native American Proverb
_
• Heb 5:5-10 . . Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest,
but He who said to him: You are My son; today I have begotten you-- just
as He says also in another passage: You are a priest forever according to the
order of Melchizedek.
. . In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications
with loud crying and tears to the one able to save him from death, and he
was heard because of his piety.
. . . Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things which he
suffered. And having been made perfect, he became to all those who obey
him the source of eternal salvation, being designated by God as a high priest
according to the order of Melchizedek.
That passage is sometimes construed to suggest that Jesus came into this
world an imperfect man and needed his rough edges smoothed off. No; it
means that until he underwent the many slings and arrows of outrageous
misfortune that plague us all, he was unsuitable for the priesthood.
And he was already pious, but Jesus didn't know by personal experience
what it's like to comply with God's requirements as an h.sapiens in a world
gone mad with evil till he gave it a try himself.
Great Spirit: grant that I may not criticize my neighbor
Until I have walked a mile in his moccasins.
Native American Proverb
_
Taken
Well-Known Member
Jesus Afraid?
OP ^
Yes. Jesus, Son of man, was sent in the Likeness of men, AS AN “Example” and to teach men truth and mysteries of God.
Jesus, AS the Son of man, as an Example, for men to SEE, HEAR, FIRST reacted as earthly men react to knowing they are about to bodily die.....AFRAID....(The same things an earthly man about to bodily die says...
God spare me, keep my body alive !)
Yet while Jesus, the Son of man was on Earth, He revealed He is the Son of God, THE CHRIST. The Christ; Power, Wisdom, Seed, Quickening Spirit That OFFERED all men who trust to believe, Convert, ‘IN’ Christ....Absolute PEACE.
Immediately after we see the Example of Jesus, the Son of Man saying...
God take this cup from me....
We see the Words of He who Has PEACE....
And the words to God are therefore revealed...“God, your will be done”.
A man IN Christ is already at PEACE. He is not AFRAID of bodily death. He is already prepared and willing for Gods will to be done.
Glory to God,
Taken
OP ^
Yes. Jesus, Son of man, was sent in the Likeness of men, AS AN “Example” and to teach men truth and mysteries of God.
Jesus, AS the Son of man, as an Example, for men to SEE, HEAR, FIRST reacted as earthly men react to knowing they are about to bodily die.....AFRAID....(The same things an earthly man about to bodily die says...
God spare me, keep my body alive !)
Yet while Jesus, the Son of man was on Earth, He revealed He is the Son of God, THE CHRIST. The Christ; Power, Wisdom, Seed, Quickening Spirit That OFFERED all men who trust to believe, Convert, ‘IN’ Christ....Absolute PEACE.
Immediately after we see the Example of Jesus, the Son of Man saying...
God take this cup from me....
We see the Words of He who Has PEACE....
And the words to God are therefore revealed...“God, your will be done”.
A man IN Christ is already at PEACE. He is not AFRAID of bodily death. He is already prepared and willing for Gods will to be done.
Glory to God,
Taken
.
When I joined the US Army back in 1961, the government gave me a written
test, and put me through a rigorous physical exam, to make sure I had
enough potential to become a soldier. But it wasn't until I successfully
completed boot camp that I went from being a potential soldier to being a
competent soldier.
Before coming into the world as a human being, the WORD lived a life of
luxury, power, and privilege; thoroughly insulated from hardship,
disappointment, anxiety, fear, danger, illness, aging, injury, fatigue, thirst,
stress, hunger, despair, sadness, loneliness, loss, grief, heartbreak,
shunning, ridicule, rejection, harsh criticism, abuse, demeaning comments,
betrayal, poverty, etc. all the really disagreeable stuff that at times make life
definitely not worth the living.
As I was before boot camp; the WORD was born into human life with the
potential to become a high priest, but it wasn't until he successfully
completed thirty plus years of the slings and arrows of outrageous
misfortune common to all men that he became a competent high priest.
In other words: those years of rubbing shoulders and sharing experiences
with the human race were the WORD's boot camp. By the time he was all
done and recalled back home to be with his Father, he was fully prepared to
go to work as a high priest.
• Heb 4:15 . . This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he
faced all of the same trials we do.
NOTE: In my opinion, there are far too many Christians out there preferring
a bullet-proof Jesus that nobody can relate to instead of a Jesus that's been
thru the mill and got himself all dented and scratched up same as they have.
The distressing part of it all is that they have been very effective with their
sophistry that has but one purpose; and that's to de-humanize him.
_
When I joined the US Army back in 1961, the government gave me a written
test, and put me through a rigorous physical exam, to make sure I had
enough potential to become a soldier. But it wasn't until I successfully
completed boot camp that I went from being a potential soldier to being a
competent soldier.
Before coming into the world as a human being, the WORD lived a life of
luxury, power, and privilege; thoroughly insulated from hardship,
disappointment, anxiety, fear, danger, illness, aging, injury, fatigue, thirst,
stress, hunger, despair, sadness, loneliness, loss, grief, heartbreak,
shunning, ridicule, rejection, harsh criticism, abuse, demeaning comments,
betrayal, poverty, etc. all the really disagreeable stuff that at times make life
definitely not worth the living.
As I was before boot camp; the WORD was born into human life with the
potential to become a high priest, but it wasn't until he successfully
completed thirty plus years of the slings and arrows of outrageous
misfortune common to all men that he became a competent high priest.
In other words: those years of rubbing shoulders and sharing experiences
with the human race were the WORD's boot camp. By the time he was all
done and recalled back home to be with his Father, he was fully prepared to
go to work as a high priest.
• Heb 4:15 . . This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he
faced all of the same trials we do.
NOTE: In my opinion, there are far too many Christians out there preferring
a bullet-proof Jesus that nobody can relate to instead of a Jesus that's been
thru the mill and got himself all dented and scratched up same as they have.
The distressing part of it all is that they have been very effective with their
sophistry that has but one purpose; and that's to de-humanize him.
_
.
• Phil 4:6-7 . . Don't worry about anything; instead, pray about everything.
Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. If you do this,
you will experience God's peace
I think it's safe to say that Jesus put those instructions into practice during
his ordeal in the garden. For sure we know he prayed about his anxiety at
least three times.
_
• Phil 4:6-7 . . Don't worry about anything; instead, pray about everything.
Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. If you do this,
you will experience God's peace
I think it's safe to say that Jesus put those instructions into practice during
his ordeal in the garden. For sure we know he prayed about his anxiety at
least three times.
_
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
You are defeating your own argument. The fact that Jesus said that He was "overwhelmed with sorrow" says He was afraid. Mark's account in Mar. 14:33 even says Jesus was "troubled and deeply distressed" when He and His disciples arrived in Gethsemane. Someone who is deeply distressed and troubled would clearly be experiencing a great deal of anxiety and fear, especially if they knew they were going to be savagely beaten, humiliated, abandoned, and made to die a slow, excruciating death in less than 24 hrs.
.
I like the way that the NLT puts Mark 14:34 like this:
"My soul is crushed with grief to the point of death."
Well; I don't know about all you iron men out there, but I've been down
Jesus' road enough to know an anxiety attack (a.k.a. panic attack) when I
see one. It's my guess that at this point in the garden, Jesus' knees were
weak, his overall vigor was ebbing, and he was feeling faint.
However, the Bible says that he was willing to go thru with his crucifixion
because of "the joy he knew would be his afterward". (Heb 12:2)
_
I like the way that the NLT puts Mark 14:34 like this:
"My soul is crushed with grief to the point of death."
Well; I don't know about all you iron men out there, but I've been down
Jesus' road enough to know an anxiety attack (a.k.a. panic attack) when I
see one. It's my guess that at this point in the garden, Jesus' knees were
weak, his overall vigor was ebbing, and he was feeling faint.
However, the Bible says that he was willing to go thru with his crucifixion
because of "the joy he knew would be his afterward". (Heb 12:2)
_
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