Jesus prophesied that Sabbath would be kept by Christians until His return

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dev553344

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This is to important for those who profess Christ and such a eye opener not to share repeatedly.

Let's take a look at Matthew. From the KJV Chapter 24 speaks of the tribulation and also the Sabbath. In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming.

VERSES 20 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING to pray THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.

How do we know?

By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, For and and in verses 21- 31 where it states the Saints are gathered. All those words are connectives, they connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

So Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord?

Have the elect been gathered together?

No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day of His return when we the Saints are gathered together to be with the forever more AFTER the tribulation that is said to be like none before.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

We can never learn if we think we are learnt.
Keeping the Sabbath is law and we are to observe and keep the commandments. That is called being a good Christian follower.
 

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This is to important for those who profess Christ and such a eye opener not to share repeatedly.

Let's take a look at Matthew. From the KJV Chapter 24 speaks of the tribulation and also the Sabbath. In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming.

VERSES 20 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING to pray THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.

How do we know?

By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, For and and in verses 21- 31 where it states the Saints are gathered. All those words are connectives, they connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

So Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord?

Have the elect been gathered together?

No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day of His return when we the Saints are gathered together to be with the forever more AFTER the tribulation that is said to be like none before.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

We can never learn if we think we are learnt.
This is a perfect example of EISEGESIS - of putting one's DOGMA ahead of scriptural intent and interpretation.
It's also a good example of HISTORIC REVISIONISM - of changing the record of history to suit religious propaganda.

He (anti-Christ) will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws.
(Daniel 7:25)

To begin, Christians DO NOT keep sabbath. Not at all. Not even a little.

That the church ever did is a matter of conjecture because nobody really knows when it changed. We do know that the day was changed. The 4th Commandment specifies the DAY God wanted set aside (sanctified) for rest, prayer and worship. That day is the 7th day of the week - Saturday. (Exodus 20:8-11) NOT SUNDAY.

We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
(Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50)

By their own admission, the Roman Catholic church has changed the set time and the law for sabbath worship. Protestants are in lock-step with the Vatican in this decision because they follow Vatican law rather than God's Law. According to the Bible, God owns Saturday. According to our television guides, the NFL owns Sunday. What are we doing in church on Sunday? A lot of us don't do anything because a lot of us simply don't go at all.

(Recent PEW & Gallup polls document the decrease in regular church attendance of nearly 60% from 1948 levels. If the current trend continues, it will fall to 10% by 2048. These numbers are combined Catholic & Protestant attendance.) If Jesus doesn't return soon there won't be anybody in church to welcome Him back.

The liturgy of Christian worship doesn't come close to the Jewish form either.

To be fair, the 4th commandment doesn't specify any method of worship, but Protestants come much closer to Levitical LAW than the RCC. Levitical LAW specifies that one must present one's self to God PERSONALLY so as to be forgiven one's SIN. American Protestants have long insisted upon people "coming forward" to be saved. The RCC insists that their priests do it at the altar INSTEAD OF the congregation. Churches of the Eastern Orthodox discipline generally follow the RCC liturgical pattern almost to the letter of the Roman Catholic missal. Jews annually observe 10 days of personal repentance from Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur. Rabbis conduct the services but don't perform ritual repentance.

Our conclusion for this section is that Christians don't observe the sabbath at all as far as the Commandment of God is concerned. Will Jesus find Christians in church on a Saturday if He should return on that day of the week?

Probably not because either the churches will schedule their services on another day or be empty anyway.

It is the time of Jacob's distress (Jeremiah 30:7)

The 1st post in this thread posits the question as to whether the apostles ...will be around ... to experience the tribulation.

Most post-modern church types have accepted RCC eschatology originally published by Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera in his book FUTURISM. In that book, Riberra described the Tribulation as an event in the distant future. The prediction was reintroduced to American churches in the mid-19th century by John Nelson Darby and was subsequently picked up by evangelist D.L. Moody and Bible publisher Cyrus Scofield. It isn't the fact of the prophecy that's in question. It's the sequence of events that's incorrect.

Here's a News Flash - the Tribulation has already happened.

Jeremiah 30:7 identified Jews, not the whole world, as those who would be affected by the Tribulation. Read it again. Matthew 24:21 quotes Jesus saying it will only happen ONCE. Bible scholars seem to all agree that the prophet Daniel predicted that period would last 7 years. This being established we can all pick up our history books and read that the HOLOCAUST began in 1938 and lasted until 1945, a period of SEVEN YEARS. Anti-semitic church types refuse to accept both the record of history and the Word of God. Instead they hope for a second holocaust, a second time of terror inflicted upon innocent Jewish men, women and children. Shame on the church.

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but whoever hates correction is stupid. (Prov 12:1)

I do agree with the last line of the 1st post however. "We can never learn if we think we are learnt." It's bad English and poor spelling, but it makes a point. Biblically illiterate types generally refuse to accept correction and they do so with venom and insulting words directed at those who attempt to educate them. Those who are "learnt" generally realize how little they already know and are eager to learn more - to submit to discipline in the love of knowledge.

"It hurts to think." (American high school student complaint)

The above sentiment is echoed in nearly every American high school. Students today are trained to memorize, not cogitate. They are trained to cough up memorized facts and figures, not to discern truth from falsehood, not to sift through information so as to produce their own conclusions. Teachers don't have the time or the inclination to guide our students into knowledge of the truth and how to find it.

In most of our churches, adult Bible study is deliberately ignored. Instead those dwindling audiences on Wednesday night or Sunday morning are treated to middle school level manipulation.

Not only does it hurt to think. Most Christians don't want to perform the exercise in the first place. Count the cars in the parking lot on worship day. Count them again during educational sessions (if available). Each time you will count fewer during educational times.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 
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St. SteVen

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This is a perfect example of EISEGESIS - of putting one's DOGMA ahead of scriptural intent and interpretation.
It's also a good example of HISTORIC REVISIONISM - of changing the record of history to suit religious propaganda.
I half agree with your conclusion. Other than that...
To begin, Christians DO NOT keep sabbath. Not a little and not at all.
Now you go to the other end of the pendulum swing to make an equally outrageous claim.
We have the freedom as Christians to observe the Sabbath if we like. Even poorly.

Therefore, some Christians DO observe the Sabbath. Your claim is outrageous.
Perhaps you are claiming that Sabbatarians are NOT Christians? On what basis?

Romans 14:5 NIV
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
 

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I half agree with your conclusion. Other than that...

Now you go to the other end of the pendulum swing to make an equally outrageous claim.
We have the freedom as Christians to observe the Sabbath if we like. Even poorly.

Therefore, some Christians DO observe the Sabbath. Your claim is outrageous.
Perhaps you are claiming that Sabbatarians are NOT Christians? On what basis?

Romans 14:5 NIV
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
You are using political forms and errant accusations to make a point. Which is what, actually??

MY POINT is that Christians DO NOT KEEP THE SABBATH. My foundation for this assertion is God's LAW, which specifies the sabbath is the 7th day of the week. Didn't you read that part?

Freedom to worship is a political liberty afforded to those of some nations. Political liberty has nothing to do with actual observance.

The kingdom of God isn't a democracy. God has specified in His Holy LAW that the acceptable day is Saturday.

The posed question at the beginning of this thread asks whether Christians will be keeping sabbath when Jesus returns. Since the sabbath is BIBLICALLY defined as Saturday and since Christians historically DO NOT worship on Saturday the answer to the question is a resounding NO.

The reference to Romans 14:5 is to Jewish observance of new moons and religious festivals NOT SHABBAT (sabbath). Shabbat is specifically defined, while certain festivals and new moons in particular aren't (mostly because lunar observances change all the time.....for instance Easter & Passover).

Again, the leading question for this thread asked whether Christians would be observing sabbath (or shabbat as Jews call it).

As argued previously, Christians DO NOT observe sabbath.



that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 

Jim B

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You are using political forms and errant accusations to make a point. Which is what, actually??

MY POINT is that Christians DO NOT KEEP THE SABBATH. My foundation for this assertion is God's LAW, which specifies the sabbath is the 7th day of the week. Didn't you read that part?

Freedom to worship is a political liberty afforded to those of some nations. Political liberty has nothing to do with actual observance.

The kingdom of God isn't a democracy. God has specified in His Holy LAW that the acceptable day is Saturday.

The posed question at the beginning of this thread asks whether Christians will be keeping sabbath when Jesus returns. Since the sabbath is BIBLICALLY defined as Saturday and since Christians historically DO NOT worship on Saturday the answer to the question is a resounding NO.

The reference to Romans 14:5 is to Jewish observance of new moons and religious festivals NOT SHABBAT (sabbath). Shabbat is specifically defined, while certain festivals and new moons in particular aren't (mostly because lunar observances change all the time.....for instance Easter & Passover).

Again, the leading question for this thread asked whether Christians would be observing sabbath (or shabbat as Jews call it).

As argued previously, Christians DO NOT observe sabbath.



that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Anyone who takes a day off is observing a sabbath -- a day of rest -- just as God did. It was unknown in the Biblical era, when life depended almost exclusively on animals and agriculture. As Jesus clearly demonstrated, needs take precedence over strict observance of the Sabbath.
 

Heart2Soul

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When members of specific denominations introduce their doctrine/theology to the forum that consists of many doctrinal beliefs there is understandably going to be a debate between the different beliefs.
What stands solid in all Christian doctrines is that Jesus is the Messiah, Son of God, The Lamb that was slain, Lord and Savior.
That is the foundation that every doctrine builds upon. It's what materials are used to build upon that separates one from another. So is your material made of hay and stubble? Or is it made of gold, silver and costly stones ?
And that is what will determine whether that doctrine will stand on the day of the Lord's return.
 
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St. SteVen

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When members of specific denominations introduce their doctrine/theology to the forum that consists of many doctrinal beliefs there is understandably going to be a debate between the different beliefs.
What stands solid in all Christian doctrines is that Jesus is the Messiah, Son of God, The Lamb that was slain, Lord and Savior.
That is the foundation that every doctrine builds upon. It's what materials are used to build upon that separates one from another. So is your material made of hay and stubble? Or is it made of bricks ?
And that is what will determine whether that doctrine will stand on the day of the Lord's return.
Well said, thanks.
But you lost me at "bricks".
I was hoping for "gold, silver, costly stones". - LOL

1 Corinthians 3:12-13 NIV
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Well said, thanks.
But you lost me at "bricks".
I was hoping for "gold, silver, costly stones". - LOL

1 Corinthians 3:12-13 NIV
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
My bad, let me go and correct it...lol.
 
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Anyone who takes a day off is observing a sabbath -- a day of rest -- just as God did. It was unknown in the Biblical era, when life depended almost exclusively on animals and agriculture. As Jesus clearly demonstrated, needs take precedence over strict observance of the Sabbath.
Are you joking?
Are you really THAT unaware of the Bible?
Are you really so opposed to God's LAW that you deliberately support any argument against it even if untrue?

3,500 years ago God gave His LAW to Moses. Here is the LAW regarding the sabbath:

"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work..." Exodus 20:8-10

God's LAW was NOT UNKNOWN.

It was given by God to Moses and the Hebrew people from the Holy Mountain. His LAW is celebrated to this day by Jewish congregations everywhere. It's called Torah and is venerated as the Most Holy thing in one's life. Gentiles, especially church types, disdain and even hate God's LAW as well as the people who bear it to the world.

Praise God for giving us His Torah.

Gentiles, including church types, hate God's LAW. They will say and do anything to deny it, oppose it, suppress it and exclude it - as you have proven by your own words.

God's LAW was NOT UNKNOWN in the Biblical era.

I find it difficult to believe that anyone is so ignorant of history and religious tradition that they can seriously and soberly make such a ridiculous claim that nobody knew about it. On the other hand, I DO believe that there are very many who are so in love with their evil works that they'll take exception at anything Holy.

The sabbath (shabbat) is a specific DAY of rest prayer and worship. It is the 7th day as so stated and so worshipped in God's LAW by God's people. On the other hand, gentiles mostly worship themselves and the works of their own hands. When they get tired they put their works aside and take a break, but in doing so they rarely acknowledge God in any of it. If the Holy Name of God is mentioned it is done in such a fashion that they expect divine approval for any filthy thing they choose to put their hands upon.

Today our country, our communities, our schools and even our houses of prayer are subject to violence of every sort. LawLESSness is everywhere. Is it not time to turn again and embrace God's LAW? For APART FROM THE LAW NO ONE CAN BE SAVED.

the secret power of lawlessness is already at work (2 Thessalonians 2:7a)
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. (1 John 3:4)
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will ... serve the lie... (2 Thessalonians 2:9)

"He who does not live by the LAW shall DIE by the LAW." (Romans 2:12)
"The wages of SIN is DEATH." (Romans 6:23)

A Day of Reckoning is coming. It's coming soon. The wise will REPENT (as the LAW directs us to do) and seek God's mercy and forgiveness (as the LAW promises God will do). The LAW tells us God is living and active and that we must come to Him ON HIS TERMS, not ours. The LAW cannot save, but neither can we save ourselves. The LAW tells us to seek God's mercy. It tells us He will respond if we put aside our hubris and self-centered opinions and lies. The LAW tells us that salvation isn't automatic. We MUST participate personally. We must seek God individually. In following the directions of the LAW, God promises He will have mercy. The LAW is a roadmap. Without it we cannot find our way to God. The first step on that road is to acknowledge what is SIN and what isn't.

Jesus is quoted by John 3:3 as saying, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

Since it is impossible for SINNERS to sense the kingdom of God in any way, the LAW has been given as a temporary guardian (Galatians 3:24). SINNERS can hear the words of the LAW and can read them. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. (Romans 10:17) Thus it is the words of the LAW, given to those who are otherwise blind and deaf to God, point the way to God, that show us all that God expects of us and teach us how to ASK to be saved and what to expect from God.

For if we do not ASK we shall not be forgiven.
If we do not ASK we shall not be saved.
If we do not ASK we shall not enter God's Holy REST, God's sabbath, God's shabbat. (Luke 11:9)

If foolish men deny God's LAW they will JUDGE THEMSELVES unworthy of grace to be saved and condemn themselves to DEATH. (Acts 13:46)

Does any of this persuade anyone that Sunday worship is NOT mandated by God as evidence in God's Word?

I'm not so naive as to believe anything God has revealed will be seriously considered - especially by those of the post-modern lawLESS church who hate it and constantly seek to pervert its meaning.

Do as you will.

But don't think for a moment that God approves of it or will bless it for God doesn't even hear the prayers of SINNERS except the prayer of repentance. (John 9:31)

LawLESSness will continue in the land and in our churches. Like a terrible cancer it will eat away at our pompous assemblies and render them lifeless and cursed even unto abandonment of their lawLESS assemblies by the Holy Spirit.

The church is Ichabod. The spirit has departed from it. (1 Samuel 4:21)
It is time for judgment to begin in the house of God.
(1 Peter 4:17).

"I hate, I despise your feasts!
I cannot stand the stench of your solemn assemblies.

Even though you offer Me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them; ... I will have no regard.

Take away from Me the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps."
(Amos 5:21-23)

The Day of Reckoning is fast approaching.

It is time to REPENT of our SINs and wickedness which we have so grievously committed by thought word and deed against the Most High God. It's time for all of us to REPENT......for me.....for you....for all who read God's Word and honor His LAW.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 
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Jim B

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Keeping the Sabbath is law and we are to observe and keep the commandments. That is called being a good Christian follower.
You sound like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. Jesus clearly demonstrated that rigidly observing the Sabbath is to not understand it. He healed on the Sabbath and demonstrated that David even entered the temple on the Sabbath and ate the bread of God's presence (as did his men), and continued to live free of punishment.

Secondly, and more importantly, observing the law and keeping the commandments is putting one's self under the Old Covenant and denying the salvific work of Jesus Christ.

Romans 7:4-6, "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code.
 

Jim B

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Are you joking?
Are you really THAT unaware of the Bible?
Are you really so opposed to God's LAW that you deliberately support any argument against it even if untrue?

3,500 years ago God gave His LAW to Moses. Here is the LAW regarding the sabbath:

"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work..." Exodus 20:8-10

God's LAW was NOT UNKNOWN.

It was given by God to Moses and the Hebrew people from the Holy Mountain. His LAW is celebrated to this day by Jewish congregations everywhere. It's called Torah and is venerated as the Most Holy thing in one's life. Gentiles, especially church types, disdain and even hate God's LAW as well as the people who bear it to the world.

Praise God for giving us His Torah.

Gentiles, including church types, hate God's LAW. They will say and do anything to deny it, oppose it, suppress it and exclude it - as you have proven by your own words.

God's LAW was NOT UNKNOWN in the Biblical era.

I find it difficult to believe that anyone is so ignorant of history and religious tradition that they can seriously and soberly make such a ridiculous claim that nobody knew about it. On the other hand, I DO believe that there are very many who are so in love with their evil works that they'll take exception at anything Holy.

The sabbath (shabbat) is a specific DAY of rest prayer and worship. It is the 7th day as so stated and so worshipped in God's LAW by God's people. On the other hand, gentiles mostly worship themselves and the works of their own hands. When they get tired they put their works aside and take a break, but in doing so they rarely acknowledge God in any of it. If the Holy Name of God is mentioned it is done in such a fashion that they expect divine approval for any filthy thing they choose to put their hands upon.

Today our country, our communities, our schools and even our houses of prayer are subject to violence of every sort. LawLESSness is everywhere. Is it not time to turn again and embrace God's LAW? For APART FROM THE LAW NO ONE CAN BE SAVED.

the secret power of lawlessness is already at work (2 Thessalonians 2:7a)
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. (1 John 3:4)
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will ... serve the lie... (2 Thessalonians 2:9)

"He who does not live by the LAW shall DIE by the LAW." (Romans 2:12)
"The wages of SIN is DEATH." (Romans 6:23)

A Day of Reckoning is coming. It's coming soon. The wise will REPENT (as the LAW directs us to do) and seek God's mercy and forgiveness (as the LAW promises God will do). The LAW tells us God is living and active and that we must come to Him ON HIS TERMS, not ours. The LAW cannot save, but neither can we save ourselves. The LAW tells us to seek God's mercy. It tells us He will respond if we put aside our hubris and self-centered opinions and lies. The LAW tells us that salvation isn't automatic. We MUST participate personally. We must seek God individually. In following the directions of the LAW, God promises He will have mercy. The LAW is a roadmap. Without it we cannot find our way to God. The first step on that road is to acknowledge what is SIN and what isn't.

Jesus is quoted by John 3:3 as saying, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

Since it is impossible for SINNERS to sense the kingdom of God in any way, the LAW has been given as a temporary guardian (Galatians 3:24). SINNERS can hear the words of the LAW and can read them. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. (Romans 10:17) Thus it is the words of the LAW, given to those who are otherwise blind and deaf to God, point the way to God, that show us all that God expects of us and teach us how to ASK to be saved and what to expect from God.

For if we do not ASK we shall not be forgiven.
If we do not ASK we shall not be saved.
If we do not ASK we shall not enter God's Holy REST, God's sabbath, God's shabbat. (Luke 11:9)

If foolish men deny God's LAW they will JUDGE THEMSELVES unworthy of grace to be saved and condemn themselves to DEATH. (Acts 13:46)

Does any of this persuade anyone that Sunday worship is NOT mandated by God as evidence in God's Word?

I'm not so naive as to believe anything God has revealed will be seriously considered - especially by those of the post-modern lawLESS church who hate it and constantly seek to pervert its meaning.

Do as you will.

But don't think for a moment that God approves of it or will bless it for God doesn't even hear the prayers of SINNERS except the prayer of repentance. (John 9:31)

LawLESSness will continue in the land and in our churches. Like a terrible cancer it will eat away at our pompous assemblies and render them lifeless and cursed even unto abandonment of their lawLESS assemblies by the Holy Spirit.

The church is Ichabod. The spirit has departed from it. (1 Samuel 4:21)
It is time for judgment to begin in the house of God.
(1 Peter 4:17).

"I hate, I despise your feasts!
I cannot stand the stench of your solemn assemblies.

Even though you offer Me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them; ... I will have no regard.

Take away from Me the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps."
(Amos 5:21-23)

The Day of Reckoning is fast approaching.

It is time to REPENT of our SINs and wickedness which we have so grievously committed by thought word and deed against the Most High God. It's time for all of us to REPENT......for me.....for you....for all who read God's Word and honor His LAW.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
I didn't read most of your lengthy post, as I have no interest in what you have to say.

If you live by the law you are denying Jesus Christ. There is no more that needs to be said.

Since you write nonsense like this -- gentiles mostly worship themselves and the works of their own hands -- why don't you join a Jewish forum? You would undoubtedly feel more comfortable there. (Except there is no choir loft from which you can holler.)
 
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dev553344

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You sound like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. Jesus clearly demonstrated that rigidly observing the Sabbath is to not understand it. He healed on the Sabbath and demonstrated that David even entered the temple on the Sabbath and ate the bread of God's presence (as did his men), and continued to live free of punishment.

Secondly, and more importantly, observing the law and keeping the commandments is putting one's self under the Old Covenant and denying the salvific work of Jesus Christ.

Romans 7:4-6, "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code.
I was taught correctly. We observe the Sabbath just as Jesus did. And if we do church service on Sunday then that is OK. Like attending church and visiting members to tend to their needs.

Honestly JimB, not observing the Sabbath in the spirit that Jesus did would be a sin. He came to fullfill the law, not to dismiss it.

Matthew 5:17-20 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
 

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You sound like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. Jesus clearly demonstrated that rigidly observing the Sabbath is to not understand it. He healed on the Sabbath and demonstrated that David even entered the temple on the Sabbath and ate the bread of God's presence (as did his men), and continued to live free of punishment.

Secondly, and more importantly, observing the law and keeping the commandments is putting one's self under the Old Covenant and denying the salvific work of Jesus Christ.

Romans 7:4-6, "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code.
Is it rigidity to hold to God's LAW, to refrain from murder, lying, stealing, adultery and REFUSE to keep the sabbath?

Let's try to remember shall we that the ORIGINAL QUESTION for this thread was "Jesus prophesied that Sabbath would be kept by Christians until His return." If you've forgotten, then scroll up and read it again.

MY ASSERTIONS, repeated again, is that no scripture was quoted to validate the FALSE claim that Christians would keep sabbath at all. Show me chapter and verse that says Christians would do that. No one can because none exists. Jesus made no such prediction. The statement that He did is a lie.

Secondly, Christians DO NOT keep sabbath at all.

They DON'T keep it because sabbath is defined by LAW as the 7th day. I have posted repeatedly why this is so. In case you weren't aware of it, most churches conduct their worship on the 1st day - Sunday. This is NOT in accord with the LAW.

I sound like the Pharisees of Jesus' time? In what way? Tell me plainly. Did Jesus EVER say the LAW could be broken? He did not. Show me chapter and verse where Jesus might have said that. DO IT. You can't because none exists.

Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the LAW (Matthew 5:17). In the next verse, verse 18, Jesus further says not one jot or tittle would pass away. Have a look at Hebrew writing. Tiny points of punctuation appear above and below Hebrew letters. These points are called jots and tittles. They act like English punctuation in that they highlight some words and link others. Jesus said NOT ONLY would the LAW STILL STAND, but that not even it's smallest punctuation marks would be removed.

What then is the purpose of the LAW? None at all if one is a member of the post-modern church who consider themselves to be God on earth.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."
(Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.)

Issues about shabbat discussed between Jesus and the Pharisees were more detailed and complex than what day shabbat ought to be observed. Jesus NEVER said one ought to observe shabbat on the 1st day. The church said it.

You have no idea what the purpose of the LAW is, how it works or its relation to justification by faith. Please read the Bible.

All you seem to be capable of doing is JUSTIFYING SIN, validating lawLESSness and promoting a grace that God never intended.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

How do we know what SIN is? The LAW tells us. Are you seriously saying that anyone can lie, cheat, murder, steal, and take God's Name in vain and still be justified as righteous? If you are, then you have no idea what's been written in it. Instead you deny God's LAW entirely and embrace SIN. You have fallen into the trap of the lawless one.

You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. (James 4:4)

Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold (Matthew 24:12

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:23)

Do you not know the church is dying? Every poll and dispassionate observer and pastor who speaks truth will tell you this is happening. Why? It's happening because the Spirit of God cannot bless wickedness and licentiousness in our houses of prayer. It has left these gatherings of hypocrites.

You have no idea of the issues involved because you are ignorant of the letter and spirit of the LAW. You can't even accurately quote scripture to prove your imaginary statements.

David NEVER entered the temple on shabbat and ate the bread of the presence. Why?

Only Levite priests were allowed into the Holy Place, by the LAW. David was of the tribe of Judah, not Levy. David was forbidden from entering the Holy Place entirely, by the LAW. Neither could Jesus because He was a Jew - of the tribe of Judah. Things get legally complicated at this point. I could explain it, but since you don't even know what day of the week to go to worship it would be pointless for me to try.

The correct account concerning David is that during his flight from Jerusalem BECAUSE HE COMMITTED ADULTERY, David's men attacked the priest's grain storage bins and ate. David never came close to the temple. If you're going to attempt to quote scripture GET IT RIGHT. If you're going to try to use the LAW to argue against it you will fail every time BECAUSE YOU DO NOT HAVE THE WISDOM OF CHRIST. Neither do you have the knowledge of a 1st year Bible college student. They don't teach you anything in Sunday school, do they?

Jesus healed on the sabbath, which demonstrated two things; first that He was Lord of the sabbath and second that He desired to promote healing on the sabbath NOT murder, lying, theft, adultery, and all manner of violence. On the other hand, lawLESS violence is exactly what you are promoting. Get it right or get to studying.

You quoted Romans 7:4-6, but have no idea what it's referring to. All you seem to qualify is wickedness, lawLESSness and that which is opposed to scripture and good order. Again I could explain it to you, but since you don't know the difference between Saturday and Sunday the effort would be wasted.

Most church folks are arrogant and Biblically illiterate. Their hubris extends beyond even the most basic understanding of the gospel at which time they prefer godless religion based upon personal opinion and licentiousness.

Grace does not justify SIN. Not in the 1st century and not in the 21st century. Nevertheless I'm going to share a mystery with you. Please try to understand how LAW and GRACE work together.

Gentiles celebrate Pentecost, which falls fifty days after Easter/Passover. (Pentecost means fifty.) On that day the Holy Spirit fell upon 120 of the former disciples of Jesus. (Acts 2 & Joel 2:28) It's universally understood that this blessing was evidence of God's GRACE shed upon man.

Jews celebrate Shavuot, the observance of the day Adonai (God) gave the LAW (Torah) to His people Israel. (Deuteronomy 9) Shavuot falls fifty days after Passover/Easter.

Pentecost and Shavuot fall on the same day on the Hebrew calendar. This is NOT a coincidence. This is evidence that God is saying something important about LAW & GRACE and how they are meant to work together unto the redemption of mankind.

Those who deny the LAW deny salvation itself. Those who promote Grace alone promote SIN.

Read the Bible.

The sabbath is Saturday. Few Christian churches worship on that day. Ergo, when Jesus returns He WILL NOT find Christians keeping shabbat, by the LAW.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
 
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When members of specific denominations introduce their doctrine/theology to the forum that consists of many doctrinal beliefs there is understandably going to be a debate between the different beliefs.
What stands solid in all Christian doctrines is that Jesus is the Messiah, Son of God, The Lamb that was slain, Lord and Savior.
That is the foundation that every doctrine builds upon. It's what materials are used to build upon that separates one from another. So is your material made of hay and stubble? Or is it made of gold, silver and costly stones ?
And that is what will determine whether that doctrine will stand on the day of the Lord's return.

Well written, but badly documented. You need to study the Bible.

You wrote that Jesus is the Messiah, son of God, the lamb that was slain...... That's a foundation? It's an extension of the LAW. The LAW of Moses IS the foundation of the gospel.

Jesus didn't say He was son of God. Others said it of Him. Jesus said He was Son of Man. THAT identification has a very powerful meaning. Read Daniel 7:13. If that passage doesn't give you goose-bumps nothing can do it.

The LAW specifies WHY a lamb must be slain.
What's a messiah? The Hebrew meaning of ha-mashiach (messiah in English), is "the annointed One". Annointed for what, exactly?

Only three types of men were anointed of God; prophets, priests and kings. Jesus is all three. Most post-modern churches falsely teach their congregations that they are ALL anointed. Contribution$ flow nicely when you lie to people like that. False doctrine, which does NOT follow the LAW, can be very profitable in the god business.

The foundation that cannot be eroded is God's LAW. Upon the LAW must be based all true doctrine. If we deny the LAW we can make up any bogus religion we want. (L. Ron Hubbard did a fine job of it....very profitable indeed.)

BECAUSE the post-modern church has abandoned the LAW, it has also abandoned ha-mashiach - the root and source of its life. It cannot and does not live apart from ha-mashiach, the Christ.

The doctrine that Jesus (Y'shuah in Hebrew) is ha-mashiach isn't celebrated in all doctrines. In point of fact, the post-modern church denies the Bible completely. Major denominations have voted against it. (Episcopal, Methodist, Lutheran & Presbyterian to name a few.)

As we stand here today there's a problem with Christendom. The problem begins with a rejection of the LAW from which all truth proceeds. What is truth? Truth is that which is consistent with what IS. God's LAW IS law - not a collection of suggestions.

Nice job though, Heart2soul. With a little real study you may become a scholar.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS In case you're wondering where my head is at, I suppose I could call myself a Karaite Jew. Google it. Jesus was one too.
 
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