Jesus's Geneology

[whirlwind]

sniper, you may think what you want, I will stay with SCRIPTURE!

I'll throw another fly in the ointment for you guys to think about.

Matthew 1:16-17 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.​

There are fourteen generations from Abraham to David and from David to the carrying away but....there are NOT fourteen from the carrying away to Christ IF the Joseph listed is counted as His father. However, if that Joseph was not husband to Mary but was her father then there would be fourteen generations.

Was this an error or is there a mystery to discover?

 

[brionne]

YOUR father and father-in-law is determined by today's standards which have changd drastically from days of old.

the differences between mathew and luke's genealogies comes from their difference in research, just like there is differences in lineage of similar families in genealogical research today.

no i dont think so.

There can be only one explanation why Joseph has 2 fathers in the geneaologies.

I'll throw another fly in the ointment for you guys to think about.

Matthew 1:16-17 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.​

There are fourteen generations from Abraham to David and from David to the carrying away but....there are NOT fourteen from the carrying away to Christ IF the Joseph listed is counted as His father. However, if that Joseph was not husband to Mary but was her father then there would be fourteen generations.

Was this an error or is there a mystery to discover?

there is no error. David is mentioned twice. From Abraham - David and from David - the exile.


Im not sure how you come to the idea that joseph could be mary's father?? Its pretty clear from this verse and many others that joseph was her husband.

 

[whirlwind]

there is no error. David is mentioned twice. From Abraham - David and from David - the exile.


Im not sure how you come to the idea that joseph could be mary's father?? Its pretty clear from this verse and many others that joseph was her husband.

Hi Pegg....yes, I know her husband was Joseph but her father could also carry the name of Joseph.


Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - Judas - Phares - Esrom - Aram - Aminadab - Naasson - Salmon - Booz - Obed - Jesse - David = 14 generations

From David:
Solomon - Roboam - Abia - Asa - Josaphat - Joram - Ozias - Joatham - Achaz - Ezekias - Manasses - Amon - Josias - Jechonias - (carried away to Babylon) = 14 generations

From Jechonias (carrying away):
Salathiel - Zorobabel - Abiud - Eliakim - Azor - Sadoc - Achim - Eliud - Eleazar - Matthan - Jacob - Joseph (husband of Mary) - Christ = 13 generations.

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.​

 

[Paul]

Hi Pegg....yes, I know her husband was Joseph but her father could also carry the name of Joseph.


Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - Judas - Phares - Esrom - Aram - Aminadab - Naasson - Salmon - Booz - Obed - Jesse - David = 14 generations

From David:
Solomon - Roboam - Abia - Asa - Josaphat - Joram - Ozias - Joatham - Achaz - Ezekias - Manasses - Amon - Josias - Jechonias - (carried away to Babylon) = 14 generations

From Jechonias (carrying away):
Salathiel - Zorobabel - Abiud - Eliakim - Azor - Sadoc - Achim - Eliud - Eleazar - Matthan - Jacob - Joseph (husband of Mary) - Christ = 13 generations.

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.​

Heli was Mary’s father, Christ was Mary’s son. Heli was of the line of David. Mary’s mother was the sister of Elisabeth. Elisabeth’s husband was Zacharias, a full priest of the tribe of Levi. That means Elisabeth was also full blood Levite, meaning her sister, Mary’s mother was also full blood Levite. Mary was half Levite and half of the tribe of Judah.

Matthew gives us, Christ's step-father, Joseph's lineage back to David to give the reason the couple needed to travel Bethlehem in fulfillment of Scripture.

 

[whirlwind]

Heli was Mary’s father, Christ was Mary’s son. Heli was of the line of David. Mary’s mother was the sister of Elisabeth. Elisabeth’s husband was Zacharias, a full priest of the tribe of Levi. That means Elisabeth was also full blood Levite, meaning her sister, Mary’s mother was also full blood Levite. Mary was half Levite and half of the tribe of Judah.

Matthew gives us, Christ's step-father, Joseph's lineage back to David to give the reason the couple needed to travel Bethlehem in fulfillment of Scripture.

Thank you Paul but...what is the answer to the "fourteen generations" when only thirteen are shown?

 

[Paul]

Thank you Paul but...what is the answer to the "fourteen generations" when only thirteen are shown?

I would imagine that you made a mistake somewhere.

 

[whirlwind]

I would imagine that you made a mistake somewhere.

Admittedly...I'm terrible in math but....how many generations do you count in each of them.

 

[brionne]

Hi Pegg....yes, I know her husband was Joseph but her father could also carry the name of Joseph.


Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - Judas - Phares - Esrom - Aram - Aminadab - Naasson - Salmon - Booz - Obed - Jesse - David = 14 generations

From David:
Solomon - Roboam - Abia - Asa - Josaphat - Joram - Ozias - Joatham - Achaz - Ezekias - Manasses - Amon - Josias - Jechonias - (carried away to Babylon) = 14 generations

From Jechonias (carrying away):
Salathiel - Zorobabel - Abiud - Eliakim - Azor - Sadoc - Achim - Eliud - Eleazar - Matthan - Jacob - Joseph (husband of Mary) - Christ = 13 generations.

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.​

Yeah i see that the 3rd group of names after the deportation states 13 from the way you've written it, but have a look from vs 11

11 "Jo‧si′ah became father to Jec‧o‧ni′ah and to his brothers at the time of the deportation to Babylon." The 2nd lot of names ends here and it amounts to 14 names. But now he begins the 3rd lot of names with Jeconiah again:

12 "After the deportation to Babylon Jec‧o‧ni′ah became father to She‧al′ti‧el"

She‧al′ti‧el became father to Ze‧rub′ba‧bel; 13 Ze‧rub′ba‧bel became father to A‧bi′ud; A‧bi′ud became father to E‧li′a‧kim; E‧li′a‧kim became father to A′zor; 14 A′zor became father to Za′dok; Za′dok became father to A′chim; A′chim became father to E‧li′ud; 15 E‧li′ud became father to El‧e‧a′zar; El‧e‧a′zar became father to Mat′than; Mat′than became father to Jacob; 16 Jacob became father to Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

If matthew was counting Jeconiah twice, then there are 14 names. Its very likely that Matthew needed to memorized the names because he would not have been allowed to remove the genealogies from the temple in order to copy them. so by counting jeconiah twice it would mean each group had 14 names in them and therefore easier to remember.

 

[sniper762]

Yeah i see that the 3rd group of names after the deportation states 13 from the way you've written it, but have a look from vs 11

11 "Jo‧si′ah became father to Jec‧o‧ni′ah and to his brothers at the time of the deportation to Babylon." The 2nd lot of names ends here and it amounts to 14 names. But now he begins the 3rd lot of names with Jeconiah again:

12 "After the deportation to Babylon Jec‧o‧ni′ah became father to She‧al′ti‧el"

She‧al′ti‧el became father to Ze‧rub′ba‧bel; 13 Ze‧rub′ba‧bel became father to A‧bi′ud; A‧bi′ud became father to E‧li′a‧kim; E‧li′a‧kim became father to A′zor; 14 A′zor became father to Za′dok; Za′dok became father to A′chim; A′chim became father to E‧li′ud; 15 E‧li′ud became father to El‧e‧a′zar; El‧e‧a′zar became father to Mat′than; Mat′than became father to Jacob; 16 Jacob became father to Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

If matthew was counting Jeconiah twice, then there are 14 names. Its very likely that Matthew needed to memorized the names because he would not have been allowed to remove the genealogies from the temple in order to copy them. so by counting jeconiah twice it would mean each group had 14 names in them and therefore easier to remember.

REGARDLESS of who made the error and why, the math shows that there was NOT three series of 14 generations as scripture states, correct? just proves one of many descrepncies in bible scripture.

 

[brionne]

REGARDLESS of who made the error and why, the math shows that there was NOT three series of 14 generations as scripture states, correct? just proves one of many descrepncies in bible scripture.

you must have missed the part where Jechoniah is in the list twice.

 

[Paul]

REGARDLESS of who made the error and why, the math shows that there was NOT three series of 14 generations as scripture states, correct? just proves one of many descrepncies in bible scripture.

There are NO discrepancies in Scripture. Any perceived discrepancies are on the part of man.

 

[sniper762]

you must have missed the part where Jechoniah is in the list twice.

i dont see him listed twice in the scriptures. in order toj justiffy equalling 14 generationns, you would have to COUNT him twice

 

[brionne]

i dont see him listed twice in the scriptures. in order toj justiffy equalling 14 generationns, you would have to COUNT him twice

try looking at Vs 11 & 12

11 "Jo‧si′ah became father to Jec‧o‧ni′ah and to his brothers at the time of the deportation to Babylon."

12 "After the deportation to Babylon Jec‧o‧ni′ah became father to She‧al′ti‧el; She‧al′ti‧el became father to Ze‧rub′ba‧bel; 13 Ze‧rub′ba‧bel became father to A‧bi′ud; A‧bi′ud became father to E‧li′a‧kim; E‧li′a‧kim became father to A′zor; 14 A′zor became father to Za′dok; Za′dok became father to A′chim; A′chim became father to E‧li′ud; 15 E‧li′ud became father to El‧e‧a′zar; El‧e‧a′zar became father to Mat′than; Mat′than became father to Jacob; 16 Jacob became father to Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

Notice vs 12 lists 14 names from Jeconiah to Jesus. Jeconiah is also in the list before the deportation. Vs 12 says he became father to Shealtiel AFTER the deportation.... that could also be a reason why he is listed twice.

 

[sniper762]

Hi Pegg....yes, I know her husband was Joseph but her father could also carry the name of Joseph.


Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - Judas - Phares - Esrom - Aram - Aminadab - Naasson - Salmon - Booz - Obed - Jesse - David = 14 generations

From David:
Solomon - Roboam - Abia - Asa - Josaphat - Joram - Ozias - Joatham - Achaz - Ezekias - Manasses - Amon - Josias - Jechonias - (carried away to Babylon) = 14 generations

From Jechonias (carrying away):
Salathiel - Zorobabel - Abiud - Eliakim - Azor - Sadoc - Achim - Eliud - Eleazar - Matthan - Jacob - Joseph (husband of Mary) - Christ = 13 generations.

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.​

notice josias and jechonias are already acconted for in the second set of 14 generaations


Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - Judas - Phares - Esrom - Aram - Aminadab - Naasson - Salmon - Booz - Obed - Jesse - David = 14 generations

From David:
Solomon - Roboam - Abia - Asa - Josaphat - Joram - Ozias - Joatham - Achaz - Ezekias - Manasses - Amon - Josias - Jechonias - (carried away to Babylon) = 14 generations

From Jechonias (carrying away):
Salathiel - Zorobabel - Abiud - Eliakim - Azor - Sadoc - Achim - Eliud - Eleazar - Matthan - Jacob - Joseph (husband of Mary) - Christ = 13 generations.

 

[Paul]

Hi Pegg....yes, I know her husband was Joseph but her father could also carry the name of Joseph.


Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - Judas - Phares - Esrom - Aram - Aminadab - Naasson - Salmon - Booz - Obed - Jesse - David = 14 generations

From David:
Solomon - Roboam - Abia - Asa - Josaphat - Joram - Ozias - Joatham - Achaz - Ezekias - Manasses - Amon - Josias - Jechonias - (carried away to Babylon) = 14 generations

From Jechonias (carrying away):
Salathiel - Zorobabel - Abiud - Eliakim - Azor - Sadoc - Achim - Eliud - Eleazar - Matthan - Jacob - Joseph (husband of Mary) - Christ = 13 generations.

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.​

Here is the way to figure it out. First re-read the verse in Matthew.

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

And count the way the text reads:

generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations;
Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - Judas - Phares - Esrom - Aram - Aminadab - Naasson - Salmon - Booz - Obed - Jesse - David = 14 generations

from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations;

David:..Solomon - Roboam - Abia - Asa - Josaphat - Joram - Ozias - Joatham - Achaz - Ezekias - Manasses - Amon - Josias - - (carried away to Babylon) = 14 generations

From Jechonias (carrying away):
Jechonias - Salathiel - Zorobabel - Abiud - Eliakim - Azor - Sadoc - Achim - Eliud - Eleazar - Matthan - Jacob - Joseph (husband of Mary) - Christ = 14 generations.

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

The text is not 3 times 14, David is the end of one count and David is the beginning of the second 14.

 

[sniper762]

Here is the way to figure it out. First re-read the verse in Matthew.

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

And count the way the text reads:

generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations;
Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - Judas - Phares - Esrom - Aram - Aminadab - Naasson - Salmon - Booz - Obed - Jesse - David = 14 generations

from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations;

David:..Solomon - Roboam - Abia - Asa - Josaphat - Joram - Ozias - Joatham - Achaz - Ezekias - Manasses - Amon - Josias - - (carried away to Babylon) = 14 generations

From Jechonias (carrying away):
Jechonias - Salathiel - Zorobabel - Abiud - Eliakim - Azor - Sadoc - Achim - Eliud - Eleazar - Matthan - Jacob - Joseph (husband of Mary) - Christ = 14 generations.

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

The text is not 3 times 14, David is the end of one count and David is the beginning of the second 14.

here is the scripture

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of aDavid, the son of Abraham.
2 aAbraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat bJudas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat aPhares and bZara of Thamar; and Phares begat cEsrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and aNaasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat aBooz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat aSolomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to aBabylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat aZorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat aJoseph the husband of bMary, of whom was born cJesus, dwho is called eChrist.

verses 2-6.5 = 14 generations
verses 6.5-11 = 14 generations
verses 12-16 = 13 generations

 

[Paul]

here is the scripture

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of aDavid, the son of Abraham.
2 aAbraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat bJudas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat aPhares and bZara of Thamar; and Phares begat cEsrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and aNaasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat aBooz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat aSolomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to aBabylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat aZorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat aJoseph the husband of bMary, of whom was born cJesus, dwho is called eChrist.

verses 2-6.5 = 14 generations
verses 6.5-11 = 14 generations
verses 12-16 = 13 generations

You did not read what I wrote. Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

Follow the instructions of verse 17. You are not doing that. The verse does not say Abraham to David, then Soloman to Josias , it says Abraham to David, then it say David to Josias, then Jechonias to Christ.

 

[brionne]

here is the scripture

verses 2-6.5 = 14 generations
verses 6.5-11 = 14 generations
verses 12-16 = 13 generations

you're missing the fact that as Paul points out ( very well infact) that the divisions begin and end with the same name

Abraham - David
David - Jechonias
Jeconias - Jesus

 

[sniper762]

oh, i got it.....like youve got 10 $1 bills and you give 1-4 to one person =4 dollars, 4-7 to another=4 dollars and 7-10 to another=4 dollars

COOL.....i just turned $10 into $12..........LOOKS GOOD ON PAPER

 

[Paul]

oh, i got it.....like youve got 10 $1 bills and you give 1-4 to one person =4 dollars, 4-7 to another=4 dollars and 7-10 to another=4 dollars

COOL.....i just turned $10 into $12..........LOOKS GOOD ON PAPER

So if you don't like the way God did it, tell Him about it!