Jews and John 14.6

[heretoeternity]

John 14.6 Jesus said " I am the truth, the way and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me"..How do the Jewish, Torah, Talemud following Jewish people obtain salvation, without following the Messiah, Jesus? Perhaps when Jesus returns they will realize He is their Messiah and come to Him then, the last minute salvation thing..What do you all think the Bible teaches on this subject?

 

[justaname]

John 3:16
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His [a]only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

And the rest of the story...

John 3:17-21
17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the [SIZE=.625em][b]only begotten Son of God.[/SIZE] 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

 

[Raeneske]

John 14.6 Jesus said " I am the truth, the way and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me"..How do the Jewish, Torah, Talemud following Jewish people obtain salvation, without following the Messiah, Jesus? Perhaps when Jesus returns they will realize He is their Messiah and come to Him then, the last minute salvation thing..What do you all think the Bible teaches on this subject?

It is sometimes stated that salvation of old time came from keeping the law. But such a statement is untrue. The Jewish religion had sacrifices which pointed to Christ as the only way for the forgiveness of sins. Christ is preached in each and every single book of the Old Testament. There are those who clearly understood that Jesus was the only way to be cleansed from their sins. Read Isaiah 53. Any Jew who will accept Christ will see the truth about Christ via the old Testament prophecies and the sacrificial system.

And last minute salvation can happen to anyone... But it won't happen when Christ returns. By that time, it will be too late.

Jeremiah 8:20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi heretoeternity

John 14.6 Jesus said " I am the truth, the way and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me"..How do the Jewish, Torah, Talemud following Jewish people obtain salvation, without following the Messiah, Jesus?
There is no other way to obtain salvation. Jesus is the way for all.

Perhaps when Jesus returns they will realize He is their Messiah and come to Him then, the last minute salvation thing..What do you all think the Bible teaches on this subject?
Jesus has already returned. God can not lie and he told his disciples that he would return in their generation. He even said some of them would not have passed away before then. According to history, Jesus did just that in 70 AD.

 

[Doxiemom]

The New Covenant did not replace and do away with the Abrahamic Covenant. God still has a purpose for the Jews; in particular during the Tribulation. Some, but not all , have been blinded until the proper time. Then, and only then, the scales shall fall from their eyes and they shall see Him Whom they have pierced and mourn for their Brother. These are the Torah Jews, kept through the generations until God has decided that we, the gentiles who were grafted into the covenant,have reached all the world with the Good News.

First you have to make a common sense argument that why hold a certain amount of jews unable to know the Lord until the Lord opens their eyes and ears, only to damn them if the proper time has not yet come. This argument cannot be said of those Jews who and secular and unbelievers.

When Jesus spoke from the Cross, He made it clear" Forgive them Father, they know not what they do" Was He speaking to the Romans who nailed Him/ No, He was speaking of the Jews who had rejected Him. We, the gentiles, would not be grafted into the Covenant unless He died on that tree. He stopped Peter from trying to save His life.

We call Him Christ, our Messiah, but until He comes in the clouds again, He is not the Messiah of the Jews. But they seek Him; they seek that Light, in deeper ways that we can only begin to understand.

And, consider please, the very idea of God breaking such a covenant. He has kept His promises to us, even after we break every commandment given us. Yet He remains loyal. Would He do no less for His Chosen?

This does not mean that some Jews cannot come to the Lord. Some have. For us, the Cross is a symbol of our salvation, for them it means death for the Jew, considering how history has treated them.

We know that we are the Bride of Christ. The holy Spirit came upon Mary and took her and she became pregnant with Child. And the people Israel are the beloved spouse of the Creator as it is Written.


Thank you listening to me. I know there will be plenty who reject this argument.But no other, take into the account they remain the Chosen people, The Apple of His Eye.

 

[Julabee Jones]

In point of fact Doxiemom, John (Baptist) restored the Abrahamic Covenant. At any rate, according to our Lord. It happens that as
the Lord, James, John and Peter were descending the Mount of Transfiguration, they were met by a crowd. A crowd that was,
"...greatly amazed" Mark 9:15 (why do you think they were amazed? Do you think it was something in Jesus' appearance, perhaps a
residual glowing from the experience on the mount, such as Moses experienced?).

So the three (for in the mouths of two or three witnesses must every word be established) asked Jesus, speaking of John the
Baptist, "And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come? And he answered and told them, Elias verily
cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at
nought. But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of
him." Mark 9:11-13.

That they were talking about John is verified in Matthew, with, "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John
the Baptist." Matt 17:13 (which is speaking of the same event).

But look back at the first passage quoted above, where it is said that Elias (Elijah) RESTORETH ALL THINGS...That is the point,
For not only did John serve as God-ordained forerunner to the Messiah, but he also served to fulfil another important function, and that was to 'restore all things'.

So what things? What did John the Baptist restore?

Paul tells us exactly what John restored, in Galatians chapter three...

"That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man
disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the
law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the
inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise." Gal 3:14-18.

The promise of Abraham, God's covenant with Abraham was actually interrupted by the law. It was never superseded by the law, but was merely interrupted, the law serving, as it were, a parenthesis, a stop gap until a certain need
was met. And that need was
met in Christ, whose coming was heralded by the forerunner John the Baptist.

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was
made" Gal 3:19.

Jesus, the seed, came, whereby we all, each and every Christian, are now made free from the law, and now living solely under the Abrahamic Covenant once again...which we see worked out in practicality by that which we call
"The New Covenent".

God Bless you!

I am and remain sincerely yours in Jesus Christ,

Julabee Jones

 

[ewq1938]

John 14.6 Jesus said " I am the truth, the way and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me"..How do the Jewish, Torah, Talemud following Jewish people obtain salvation, without following the Messiah, Jesus?

They won't, no one can have salvation without Christ.

Perhaps when Jesus returns they will realize He is their Messiah and come to Him then, the last minute salvation thing..What do you all think the Bible teaches on this subject?

It doesn't say a whole race of people suddenly accept Jesus after being in a religion that denies him. Keep in mind by the time Jesus returns, everyone but those faithful to Christ will have taken the mark of the beast and this is their fate:

Rev_14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[ewq1938]

It is sometimes stated that salvation of old time came from keeping the law. But such a statement is untrue.

Not true. Jesus confirmed that was possible, Mat 19:16-19

 

[Raeneske]

Not true. Jesus confirmed that was possible, Mat 19:16-19

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

If there are none righteous, not one, then how is it possible that anyone can be saved by law keeping? Such is impossible!

Isaiah 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.

Were men saved by law-keeping? Or saved by their Saviour?

Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

Was not the law the schoolmaster to bring them to Christ? Did not the sacrifices point to Christ? How then is it possible to be saved in law-keeping? They are saved by faith in Christ. They were saved by faith in the Christ to come. We are saved in faith in Christ who has come. Did the blood of calves cleanse them from sin? Or the blood of Christ cleanse them from sin?

Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

None are saved by law-keeping. We are saved by Christ our Saviour, faith in Him saves us. It is the gift of God.

This is not to say the law is not important. When we are saved by Christ, we are not to commit sin, but to do righteousness. The doers of the law are justified. But the doers of the law must have faith in Christ the Saviour.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The devil doesn't care if you claim Christ as Lord, but disobey God's law. The devil doesn't care if you obey God's commandments, but reject Christ as Saviour. The devil has a problem with the saints, the ones who do both, keep the commandments of God and have faith in Christ Jesus.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

If there are none righteous, not one, then how is it possible that anyone can be saved by law keeping? Such is impossible!

If a man had sin and God forgave that sin through the lawful process instituted by God, and that man died without sinning again then he would be saved.

Isaiah 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.

Were men saved by law-keeping? Or saved by their Saviour?

Again, God provided a way to have sin atoned for in the old law.

Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

Was not the law the schoolmaster to bring them to Christ? Did not the sacrifices point to Christ? How then is it possible to be saved in law-keeping? They are saved by faith in Christ. They were saved by faith in the Christ to come. We are saved in faith in Christ who has come. Did the blood of calves cleanse them from sin? Or the blood of Christ cleanse them from sin?

See above.

Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

None are saved by law-keeping. We are saved by Christ our Saviour, faith in Him saves us. It is the gift of God.

This is written after the old covenant was gone and the new was in it's place.

A few verses before shows this:

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.


God no longer accepted animal sacrifices for sin atonement because Christ was the last blood sacrifice which is also found in the same place:

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Remember Paul is speaking to Jews in Hebrews....people who thought the law's sin atonement bllod sacrifices were still accepted by God. Paul informs them the sacrifices cannot cause sin to be forgiven since the sacrifice of Christ.

 

[Raeneske]

If a man had sin and God forgave that sin through the lawful process instituted by God, and that man died without sinning again then he would be saved.



Again, God provided a way to have sin atoned for in the old law.


See above.


This is written after the old covenant was gone and the new was in it's place.

A few verses before shows this:

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.


God no longer accepted animal sacrifices for sin atonement because Christ was the last blood sacrifice which is also found in the same place:

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Remember Paul is speaking to Jews in Hebrews....people who thought the law's sin atonement bllod sacrifices were still accepted by God. Paul informs them the sacrifices cannot cause sin to be forgiven since the sacrifice of Christ.

The sacrifices never took away sin. Ever. They were simply actions that proclaimed the faith in the Son of God, the true Sacrifice. By sacrificing the lamb, they, through their works, proclaimed their faith of the Redeemer to come, who was to take away their sins. What was done in the law pointed to Christ. As it is written:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Sin could never be atoned for by the slaying of an animal. It's impossible. It's not a man, nor a perfect man, upon whom has resisted temptation, and become the perfect sacrifice. All the sins of those who believe in Christ, those who believed in the Redeemer to come, and those who believe in the Redeemer who has come, are transferred to Him. No literal lamb can atone for the sins of man. Christ Jesus died for the sins of man. Your theology makes animal sacrifices a substitute for the sins of many. It basically is saying there was no need for the Redeemer, because the blood of animals could be used for the atonement of sin. What need had Christ to die, if we could slay animals? Why would He have to come to die for our sins? There would be no need!

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

And it was not only the New Testament that said this.

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Why is Job declaring His Redeemer liveth, if he had no need of a Redeemer? Had he not the law?

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Proverbs 23:11 For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.

How is Christ the Redeemer of the poor in the OT if they have the law?

Isaiah 43:14 Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.

How is Christ the Redeemer of the children of Israel if they were saved by their ability to keep the law?

And do not the voice of many say that man had the ability to keep the law, and that's why Christ came? How do these two ideas reconcile? How is it, no man can keep the law, and that's why Christ came... yet now that Christ came, man did keep the law in the past, and were saved by lawkeeping?

 

[ewq1938]

The sacrifices never took away sin. Ever.

Of course they did else there would be no reason to even do them.

Lev_4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

Clearly you are wrong.

Sin could never be atoned for by the slaying of an animal. It's impossible.

God required it to happen for sin atonement.

What need had Christ to die, if we could slay animals? Why would He have to come to die for our sins? There would be no need!

All your questions are answered in the basics of Christianity. The old covenant was gone when the new came about so animal sacrifices were no longer valid. That's why Christ died once for all time replacing the old system.

How is Christ the Redeemer of the poor in the OT if they have the law?

A redeemer didn't forgive sins in the old covenant.

And do not the voice of many say that man had the ability to keep the law, and that's why Christ came? How do these two ideas reconcile? How is it, no man can keep the law, and that's why Christ came... yet now that Christ came, man did keep the law in the past, and were saved by lawkeeping?

Again, you do not appear to understand that sin was atoned for in the old covenant through animal sacrifice. This is how God made it possible to be forgiven of sins. God changed how it was done in the new covenant.

 

[Bibliocentrist]

I envy the Jews. I wish i was a Jew and I hate being a gentile. Its alot more easier/natural for them the have faith, cleanliness, sabbath, etc.
https://senatorspark.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/3-types-3.jpg
Matthew was to Jews, Luke to Greeks/gentiles.
Yes the OT law could not save, only Jesus sacrifice/blood saves (Exodus 13:9), but the whole issue of the law is too difficult dispute.
There will be a remnant (1/3rd) of Jews saved
(Ezekiel 36 & 37) by God (not by man) for his name sake (not for their http://www.worldhistoria.com/cains-offering_topic129122.html).
Who knows how it will happen.
Moses has been found in Egyptian.


The Isaiah #:11-17 quote says they are offering while they have inquity, hands full of blood, evil of deeds / doing evil, [not doing good, not seeking justice (including to fatherless & widow)], oppressing.

"He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord/Jhwh require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" - Micah 6:8.

"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows [includes lonely/alone/singles and people without families?] in their affliction, and to keep himself unspoted from the world." - James1:27.

"I require mercy not sacrifice" - bible/Jesus.
"We have another, equally important source of atonement, the practice of gemilut hasadim (loving kindness), as it is stated 'I desire loving kindness and not sacrifice'." (- Rabban Yochanan.)

the whole of the law is in love lord with all heart/soul/might and
"love your neighbour as yourself" /
"do unto others as would have done to you" - Jesus/bible.
"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn." (- Hillel?)
" What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor " (- the Babylonian Talmud).

005:010 They hate him who reproves in the gate, and they abhor him
who speaks blamelessly.
005:011 Forasmuch therefore as you trample on the poor, and take taxes
from him of wheat:
005:012 For I know how many your offenses, and how great are your sins--
you who afflict the just, who take a bribe, and who turn
aside the needy in the courts.
005:015 Hate evil, love good, and establish justice in the courts.

008:004 Hear this, you who desire to swallow up the needy, and cause
the poor of the land to fail,
008:005 Saying, 'When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell grain?
And the Sabbath, that we may market wheat, making the ephah small,
and the shekel large, and dealing falsely with balances of deceit;
008:006 that we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair
of shoes, and sell the sweepings with the wheat?'"

(http://www.worldhistoria.com/cains-offering_topic129122.html)
Half of Israeli settlements water is fluoridated (like UK, Eire, NZ, USA).

 

[ewq1938]

I envy the Jews. I wish i was a Jew and I hate being a gentile.

All Christians are grafted onto Israel and are Israelites/Jews already, Rom 11:17. All who deny Christ were pruned from Israel due to unbelief, Rom_11:20 . Any who agree to accept Christ are grafted back.

 

[Raeneske]

Yes the OT law could not save, only Jesus sacrifice/blood saves (Exodus 13:9), but the whole issue of the law is too difficult dispute.

(emphasis mine) This has been my sole point about Jesus. No animal had the ability to atone for the sins of man. It's impossible. Christ alone could die for mankind. Whether it is Jew, or whether it is Gentile.

Romans 9:31-32 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Those who sought righteousness by the law could not obtain it. As the prophet says:

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

And as Paul so agrees:

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

What was Abraham justified by? By the works of the law, or by the working of faith?

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Was the inheritance ever by the law? Or was it by faith?

Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

God gave it to Abraham by promise. It was never of the law.

Galatians 3:21-22 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Was righteousness ever by the law? Did the law give life? Answer: No. But all are under sin, (not just those after Christ's death, but literally all), that the promise of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. What then was the purpose of the law?

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The purpose of the Old Testament sacrifices was to bring on to Christ, to trust in the merits of the Redeemer to come in the future. The Old Testament points to the Redeemer TO come, from sacrifices to all. The New Testament points to the Redeemer who HAS come. One pointed to the future. The other pointed to the past. Both pointed to the same One. Christ died for the sins of all, literally for everyone under the old covenant, and those too under the new covenant. They had ordinances and services for Him to come. They proclaimed their faith by the slain animals of the Redeemer to come in the future. We too have ordinances of service, proclaiming the Redeemer who HAS come. For example, the last supper. Does the last supper cleanse us from sin? Does it save us? Does it instantly make us Christians if we partake of it?

Without Christ, it is but a useless ceremony. Just like the temple sacrifices. Without Christ they are but useless ceremonies! But combine the faith in Christ to come, and Christ who has come, and we are thereby blessed.

Of course they did else there would be no reason to even do them.

Lev_4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him.

Clearly you are wrong.



God required it to happen for sin atonement.


All your questions are answered in the basics of Christianity. The old covenant was gone when the new came about so animal sacrifices were no longer valid. That's why Christ died once for all time replacing the old system.





A redeemer didn't forgive sins in the old covenant.




Again, you do not appear to understand that sin was atoned for in the old covenant through animal sacrifice. This is how God made it possible to be forgiven of sins. God changed how it was done in the new covenant.

View what was written above. You can slay animals all day long. If you didn't believe that Christ was going to come, if you didn't believe that the Redeemer was going to come to cleanse you from all sin, your sacrifice was useless. It's nothing but a ceremony.