Sorry. Jesus said, I AM THE WAY, THE LIFE, THE WATER OF LIFE, THE DOOR. "He who does not enter by The Door into the sheepfold, the same is a thief and robbing murderer."
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John 3:5... YES! ANOTHER BAPTISM THREAD!
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Sorry. Jesus said, I AM THE WAY, THE LIFE, THE WATER OF LIFE, THE DOOR. "He who does not enter by The Door into the sheepfold, the same is a thief and robbing murderer."
That will be you <preferring>, not <following>. You'll have to find John the baptist to go baptise you in the river Jordan. You will not find luck. And you cannot follow the apostles as your example because they set you no example, as simple as that. You tell yourself they did; they did not. They followed the risen Christ's authorisation of THEM and baptised "IN THE NAME" and successfully spread the Gospel across the world because Christ promised them the Holy Spirit to do the impossible for them. But they since, have all died.
Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn Just now ·
Hendiadys (one through two), rhetorical conjunction, 'born of water and spirit—of spiritual water indeed'.
Hendiadys (one through two), rhetorical conjunction, 'born of water and spirit—of spiritual water indeed'.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
The verse you cite does not do away with the necessity of baptism or repentance confession or belief.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
I cited Acts 8 and Phillip for Phillip is an example of the great commission of Christ (go, teach, baptize) being carried out where Phillip went, taught and baptized the eunuch. The Spirit did not miraculous illuminate the understanding of the eunuch apart from the word nor did the SPirit "spirit baptize" the eunuch. I do not know where you get the idea that the Spirit of verse 29 was nothing more than Phillip's intuition. Matthew 28:19-20 Mark 16:15-16 clearly shows disciples being commissioned to go teach and baptize. Paul was baptized himself (Acts 22:16) he baptized others (1 Corinthians 1:14,16) and taught the necessity of baptism (Rom 6:3-7; Gal 3:27; Col 2:11-14; etc) for Paul was under the great commission as other disciples are under it.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Jesus speaks of ONE birth that has two elements; 1) Spirit 2) water.
The role of water is water baptism
John 3:5----------Spirit++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 cor 12:13------Spirit+++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tt 3:5-----------holy Ghost++++++laver of water>>>>>>>>>saved
Eph 5:26--------the word+++++++laver of water>>>>>>>>>cleansed
The Bible shows that "water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" and "laver of water".
The role of the Spirit is the word, the Bible that the Spirit authored that instructs men on how to be saved in commanding men to be water baptized for remission of sins. Hence men are born again/begotten by the word, the gospel, James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 Corinthians 4:15.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
SPirit refers to literal Spirit and water refers to literal water in Jn 3. That is consistency.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Where is my bias in having water of Jn 3:5 mean literal water?
The bias is from those trying to get literal water out of the verse.
John 3:5-----------------SPirit+++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 Cor 12:13-------------Spirit+++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Titus 3:5---------------Holy Ghost++++++laver of water>>>>>>>>>>>saved
Water = baptized = laver of water.
Re: <<Phillip is an example of the great commission of Christ (go, teach, baptize) being carried out>>
Refuted: "Philip the deacon" - Cruden's as well as Luke. He did carry out his mission: he explained the Name of God the Father Son and Holy Spirit and Salvation through faith in HIM Period. <<Phillip went, taught-and-baptized[*] the eunuch>>. YOUR words! [* Hendiadys]
Re: <<The Spirit did not miraculous illuminate the understanding of the eunuch apart from the word nor did the SPirit "spirit baptize" the eunuch (apart from the word).>>
Refuted: Again YOUR words indisputably clear and true!
Re: <<I do not know where you get the idea that the Spirit of verse 29 was nothing more than Phillip's intuition.>>
Refuted: It is written (as I quoted before) "the spirit IN HIM"-Philip. And as clear as clear blue sky, there, is nothing written like (Acts 8:16) <<go teach and baptize>>; which is what you ADD to Acts in between 8:26 and 35, On top you ADD baptise meaning, with 'WATER'-- NOWHERE ANYWHERE in the whole anecdote.
Re: <<Matthew 28:19-20 Mark 16:15-16 clearly shows disciples being commissioned to go teach and baptize.>>
Refuted: Matthew 28:19-20 Mark 16:15-16 clearly shows disciples being made apostles by the risen Christ who commissioned them and NOBODY ELSE to go teach and baptize.
Re: <<Paul was baptized himself (Acts 22:16)>>
Refuted: Paul was baptized "...CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD". Hendiadys. NO water!
RE: <<he baptized others (1 Corinthians 1:14,16)>>
Refuted: "...lest any should say that I baptised in MY NAME" claiming that he too. like the other apostles, "baptised IN THE NAME OF THE LORD! Again, NO water!
Re: <<and taught the necessity of baptism (Rom 6:3-7; Gal 3:27; Col 2:11-14; etc)>>
Refuted: And where is you water, number one; and where is your 'great commission' to any body than 'the' apostles commissioned by Jesus on earth in person? NOWHERE!
Re: <<for Paul was under the great commission as other disciples are under it>>
Refutation of everything you have claimed so far!
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Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
---The great commissions sends disciples to go, teach and baptize and that is EXACTLY what Phillip did in Acts 8. This is EXACTLY how men today are saved by being taught and baptized. CHristianity is a taught religion and once taught must be obeyed.
---Acts 8:29 refers to the Holy SPirit that sent Phillip to the eunuch, not Phillip's own spirit with in him.
---Christ had chosen His apostles BEFORE he gave the great commission. This commission applied to all the apostles and all disciples. If it only applied to the apostles then Christianity would have died out centuries ago for no one would be left after the last apostle died to go teach the gospel and make disciples.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
My reason was that YOU posted,
Ernest T. Bass said: ↑
<<The verse you cite does not do away with the necessity of baptism or repentance confession or belief.>>
You beat around the bush but pray the snake might not come out from under it.
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By now I am obliged to say that you LIE.
<The great commissions> does NOT <send disciples>; it sends --correction: it SENT apostles.
To <<go, teach and baptize>> was NOT what the <disciple> and deacon to the end, "Phillip the evangelist" did; he was NOT commissioned by the risen Christ, but was told by a "messenger of the Lord", not, to go to "the world" and "all nations", but, no further than into the "desert south of Jerusalem".
And <<to go, teach and baptize>>was NOT, <<EXACTLY what Phillip did in Acts 8>>; he succumbed to the demands of the bombastic ignorant Eunuch, and after he had finished to <teach and baptize> with the WORD from Isaiah, "went DOWN WITH" the servant and water-baptised him--, in or with water, it does not matter which way, as water-baptism not the least mattered and was NO PART of the deacon's instruction.
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Re: <<Christ had chosen His apostles BEFORE he gave the great commission.>>
Refuted: Yes, He chose them from before the foundations of the world; He <commissioned> them after He had raised from the dead--, not before.
Re: <<This commission applied to all the apostles and all disciples.>>
Refuted: Simply a lie too obvious to point out in detail because the Risen Christ specifically gave order to heavenly angels to tell the eleven that He after his resurrection would go before them to Galilee and that there they would see Him.
RE: <<If it only applied to the apostles then Christianity would have died out centuries ago for no one would be left after the last apostle died to go teach the gospel and make disciples.>>
Refuted: Gibberish. "The Gospel is the POWER OF GOD unto salvation to everyone that believeth" : believeth the APOSTLES' Good News commissioned THEM to proclaim by CHRIST IN PERSON. That is and makes the whole and all difference.
