Koinonia

[Nancy]

Hi Everyone,
After listening to a friend of mine on here talk about how the Lord's Supper should be only among believers who are united and as one in Christ - no factions and such - it got me to thinking when I was a teen, my mom went on a retreat and they named it Koinonia. So, after all these years, after asking my mom what the word meant, she said simply fellowship! But, the more I read about this, I am seeing a deeper meaning like as in fellowship with God Himself - the Divine meets the creation and, all through and in Jesus! I see not a whole lot of difference between the so called fellowship we do have available to us, it's overused and not meant like it should be, seems to be more of lunch in the "fellowship room"
for---yes, fellowship...no scripture readings, prayers (except for blessing the food). Conversations over just about anything BUT God. There seems to be a huge misunderstanding over the proper way to "Koinonia" (myself included).
So, how can a mega mainline Church have this kind of thing? Yes, small groups are good if encouraged to study and pray and allow the Spirit to teach us, not the pre-made questions made specifically for the groups.
So, anyone have anything to add to this? @Episkopos ? @stunnedbygrace @amadeus ? And, Grace, I forgot your handle, lol.
Thanks for any replies.

 

[Windmill Charge]

the Lord's Supper should be only among believers who are united and as one in Christ - no factions and such

how can a mega mainline Church have this kind of thing[/QUOTE]

The question that occurs to me.
Who determines who is noted in fellowship and who isn't?

Does your 'friend' know how much responsibility he is placing on one person or a committee ?

In my opinion it is up to each of us to examine ourselves to ensure that we are not eating or drinking in an unworthy manner.

It is not up to some other person to say we can or cannot take part in the Lord's Supper.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I am seeing a deeper meaning like as in fellowship with God Himself - the Divine meets the creation and, all through and in Jesus! I see not a whole lot of difference between the so called fellowship we do have available to us, it's overused and not meant like it should be, seems to be more of lunch in the "fellowship room"

Yes, fellowship with God Himself. Our fellowship is in the Son. When you begin to discern the body, I dont think a megachurch is going to help you. I think it will just increasingly frustrate you. But God will lead you to the right gathering at the right time. I just dont think it will be a large building with a microphone.

 

[Nancy]

It is not up to some other person to say we can or cannot take part in the Lord's Supper.[/QUOTE]
Hi Windmill,
"The question that occurs to me.
Who determines who is noted in fellowship and who isn't?"

That is the problem. Nobody really knows one another. Most people only "know" their pastors in passing...and visa versa.

Acts 2:42-46
42 "They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,"



And yes, we are to examine ourselves, every day IMHO. I believe the unworthy manner spoken of in 1 Cor. is speaking to how many were coming early and eating all the food and drinking the wine to drunkenness, leaving nothing for others who needed the food. "Even some sleep" could have to do with the gluttony and drinking in excess or it (This is my take) was those who were not well to do and depended on this food for their sustenance...many became weak...

I do not think my friend was denying anybody God's Supper but...there is a way it should be done, properly.
Thanks for the reply :)

 

[Joseph77]

Yes, fellowship with God Himself. Our fellowship is in the Son. When you begin to discern the body, I dont think a megachurch is going to help you. I think it will just increasingly frustrate you. But God will lead you to the right gathering at the right time. I just dont think it will be a large building with a microphone.

Stunning ! Truth !


:)

 

[Nancy]

Yes, fellowship with God Himself. Our fellowship is in the Son. When you begin to discern the body, I dont think a megachurch is going to help you. I think it will just increasingly frustrate you. But God will lead you to the right gathering at the right time. I just dont think it will be a large building with a microphone.

Ha, that would be a refreshing change...no mikes, no drums, no fancy lighting...
Yes, our fellowship is in the Son, and the Son is in the Father, Amen?
Yeah, I agree...it is pretty near impossible to discern the body in such a huge crowd.

 

[Joseph77]

That is the problem. Nobody really knows one another. Most people only "know" their pastors in passing...and visa versa.

Thanks be to God the Father in Heaven for His Word TODAY ! (i.e. seriously, truthfully, fully!) See in His Word His Fellowship, even as Jesus prays in John 17, "one with the Father" "the disciples be one with the Son, as the Son is one with the Father" and more.... and this is then seen in the Epistles describing in God's Own Words the fellowship of the Ekklesia (rarely seen today by anyone, in God's Word OR in their meetings , homes, families) ...

Oh, this is still seen today, by few, as Jesus says clearly, and in line with all of His Word.

Whenever I've met someone from afar, or near for that matter, who has the same spirit in them as raised Jesus from the dead, I see it, and they see it in me - fellowship in spirit first, before even talking with one another, yet still necessary to PROVE, TEST, VERIFY by God's Directions-in His Word, not at all feelings, nor emotions, (except JOY and PEACE, with RIGHTEOUSNESS, continually) ....

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If I met physically with others and someone came who was divisive, I think...I would just refrain from eating at all. Why would you drink and eat together of the Lords body with someone who didnt understand. It would be like joining yourself with a prostitute. You would be saying you become one body with them. I would not have that kind of intimacy with just anyone. I think they were becoming sick and dying because they did not discern the body.

 

[Joseph77]

There seems to be a huge misunderstanding over the proper way to "Koinonia" (myself included).

It was (and is) devastating at times when people realize this - yet by the Father's Wonderful Wisdom and Grace in Jesus, He KNOWS...
and
HE PROVIDES, the truth, the fellowship, in spirit and in truth, not in flesh and blood which does not inherit the Kingdom of heaven,
but
in Christ Jesus Master Savior Comforter Healer with the NAME ABOVE EVERY NAME (i.e. in no small measure!)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It would be...unseemly if someone were not included in that intimacy to then demand that others have that kind of relations with them. It would be like the men banging on lots door and demanding intimacy...

So...I guess I disagree that the body shouldn't withhold this intimacy until they determine whether someone should be eating with them and should be joined to them. Otherwise, there is no discerning the body...and you just join yourself to anyone?

 

[Joseph77]

i.e. purging, purifying, correcting correctly as God's Word says to do - NOT to tolerate a man sleeping with his father's wife, no! not at all... NOT to tolerate a man laying with another man as with a woman - NO ! That kind of abomination is NEVER to be tolerted... ever, and never permitted in the body of Christ. It is forever forbidden - and should be correctly purified TODAY, not waiting silently allowing sin to go on... no, never... in the body of Ekklesia , nor in one's own life.

 

[amadeus]

For many years I belonged to a group that had lots of good teaching and singing and preaching. By the time I came along to join together with them they had developed a custom wherein several different assemblies would meet together periodically. 'When the regular service was over' [When should this be and who decides?], they would always have a full-course meal provided on a pot-luck basis by the 'home' church people. As far as that went it was a good thing, which I enjoyed because I liked the food... but are we too often looking primarily only for the meat of the cow along with a potatoes followed by the apple pie... forgetting too often about eating the flesh and blood of Jesus? What is this flesh and blood?

Always a problem for me at these fellowship meals was the subjects of conversation. They would talk about baseball or football or other secular things, which for me by that time held no interest at all. I would usually sit in silence not even knowing know the names of the teams nor any of the players. [LOL, given opportunity and provocation I had my own secular subjects that might have hooked me... but it would have amounted to the same thing, would it not?]

I sometimes sought someone to talk about the things of God and found it to be a rare subject and not popular with most people. And these were 'church going' people. I wasn't a "minister" so I was not to sit with the ministers and the other people usually with whom I did sit...even though some of them would be very active during the prescribed services, but 'service time' was past... did not want to talk about such things during there meal. Football? OK! Clothes needed? OK!

Does not or should not fellowship or "Koinonia" include God and the things of God? Are we
supposed to get "in the Spirit" during the prescribed service time and then immediately quench the Spirit in favor of our favorite secular subjects when someone has dismissed us to go and take our natural food with our 'brothers in Christ'?

Who did Jesus say were His brothers?


Mt 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mt 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

What is the "will of my Father"? Is it not the meat of Jesus and should it not be our meat if we are, or are becoming, like Him?

"Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." John 4:34

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

So then consider what Jesus did in way of works for the 3½ years of his ministry in the flesh on planet Earth? Did he ever stop to discuss football or whatever the favorite secular subject of the day were?

I am not saying to never discuss any secular pursuits at all but where should our priorities lie and when? What should our greatest priority and our first love be all of the time?

Not only at formal fellowship time, but then and any other time that God has need of us? Can we do that?

"Let's wait until after dinner!" Or "Let's wait until after the game!" Or...!

 

[Joseph77]

QUOTE="amadeus, post: 718270, member: 924"]What is the "will of my Father"? Is it not the meat of Jesus and should it not be our meat if we are, or are becoming, like Him?

"Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." John 4:34

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

So then consider what Jesus did in way of works for the 3½ years of his ministry in the flesh on planet Earth? Did he ever stop to discuss football or whatever the favorite secular of the say were?

I am not saying to never discuss any secular pursuits at all but where should our priorities lie and when? What should our greatest priority and our first love be all of the time?

Not only at formal fellowship time, but then and any other time that God has need of us? Can we do that?

"Let's wait until after dinner!" Or "Let's wait until after the game!" Or...![/QUOTE

remembering in Malachi:
God calls an angelic scribe (recorder/secretary/transcriptionist)
and says
LOOK at these people GATHERED together TALKING ABOUT ME ....
WRITE DOWN EVERY WORD THEY SAY... (in a permanent book)...




The fellowships I saw , that drew me to Christ in truth instead of "with the form of religion, and no power to save"

were young people and old people , DAILY TALKING TOGETHER WITH JESUS, and ABOUT JESUS, and TO OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN, and LISTENING to HIM, in all things, every day....

 

[Nancy]

For many years I belonged to a group that had lots of good teaching and singing and preaching. By the time I came along to join together with them they had developed a custom wherein several different assemblies would meet together periodically. 'When the regular service was over' [When should this be and who decides?], they would always have a full-course meal provided on a pot-luck basis by the 'home' church people. As far as that went it was a good thing, which I enjoyed because I liked the food... but are we too often looking primarily only for the meat of the cow along with a potatoes followed by the apple pie... forgetting too often about eating the flesh and blood of Jesus? What is this flesh and blood?

Always a problem for me at these fellowship meals was the subjects of conversation. They would talk about baseball or football or other secular things, which for me by that time held no interest at all. I would usually sit in silence not even knowing know the names of the teams nor any of the players. [LOL, given opportunity and provocation I had my own secular subjects that might have hooked me... but it would have amounted to the same thing, would it not?]

I sometimes sought someone to talk about the things of God and found it to be a rare subject and not popular with most people. And these were 'church going' people. I wasn't a "minister" so I was not to sit with the ministers and the other people usually with whom I did sit...even though some of them would be very active during the prescribed services, but 'service time' was past... did not want to talk about such things during there meal. Football? OK! Clothes needed? OK!

Does not or should not fellowship or "Koinonia" include God and the things of God? Are we
supposed to get "in the Spirit" during the prescribed service time and then immediately quench the Spirit in favor of our favorite secular subjects when someone has dismissed us to go and take our natural food with our 'brothers in Christ'?

Who did Jesus say were His brothers?


Mt 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mt 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

What is the "will of my Father"? Is it not the meat of Jesus and should it not be our meat if we are, or are becoming, like Him?

"Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." John 4:34

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

So then consider what Jesus did in way of works for the 3½ years of his ministry in the flesh on planet Earth? Did he ever stop to discuss football or whatever the favorite secular of the say were?

I am not saying to never discuss any secular pursuits at all but where should our priorities lie and when? What should our greatest priority and our first love be all of the time?

Not only at formal fellowship time, but then and any other time that God has need of us? Can we do that?

"Let's wait until after dinner!" Or "Let's wait until after the game!" Or...!

Awesome John,
It is beyond me why so many in the Church's do NOT want to talk the things of God, I could talk all day about Him...mostly questions, lol. "The Church is asleep in the Light" - Keith Green lyrics...peoples hearts are not on fire for our first love...it has all become so routine. It is not easy to find good fellowship...sad.

 

[Joseph77]

Awesome John,
It is beyond me why so many in the Church's do NOT want to talk the things of God, I could talk all day about Him...mostly questions, lol. "The Church is asleep in the Light" - Keith Green lyrics...peoples hearts are not on fire for our first love...it has all become so routine. It is not easy to find good fellowship...sad.

REJOICE in tribulation ! Salvation draws nigh !
===========================================================================================

oh, they do, they do,
all day and sleeping at night they devise plans (of sin, not of good) as they serve their god, whichever one it is they talk about....

 

[Helen]

Does not or should not fellowship or "Koinonia" include God and the things of God? Are we
supposed to get "in the Spirit" during the prescribed service time and then immediately quench the Spirit in favor of our favorite secular subjects when someone has dismissed us to go and take our natural food with our 'brothers in Christ'?

Hi John

Good post. I agree about the inner grieving when we find others do not have quite the same passion in conversation.
You know our story. Dave and I were asked to leave England and come to Canada to help in the leadership of a large church.
Our was actually by living in community , and for 15 yrs we did so, some as small as 10 in the group, sometimes up to 80 in the group. Challenging years, but also good years... when people live together 24/7 there is nowhere to 'hide' if people are not real the flesh shows.

..we'd come all the way with our two kids, , sold everything , nothing in our hands but two suit each when we landed in Canada. Only to find that at so many of the meals were taken up with the conversation of which sleeping bag was best for -40 degrees, and thing like that. That first year I took many walks ( to get away alone) and cry before the Lord .."What on earth to You bring us here for."
In His wisdom we found out that most of it was for Him to cut deep and deal deep. It amazing how religious we can appear to be when we are with the two or three for a short amount of time..but when rubbing shoulders every moment of the day one soon finds out just what is on the inside and how much the Old Man does not like giving up his life one bit!!

Painful but precious days , I am so thankful for them, I would not have missed then for anything. God knew what He was doing so very long before we did.

To me true Koinonia is a sacrificial calling into living in the life in His Spirit.
I think we taste it, but I don't think we live there 24/7 yet. We go in and out. One Day, 'we will go no more out..'

..........✟

 

[amadeus]

@Helen
Thank you for sharing part of your personal testimony. Some people here don't want us testify at all. Others want us to limit our testimonies to a pattern they have established as the only "right" way. God works with different people in different ways at different times. We need to learn to pay more attention to Him and less attention to any carnally instigated suggestions or conclusions. How well can anyone fellowship with others without Godly discernment? Would that be one of those "best gifts"?

"But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way." I Cor 12:13