Leaving creationism = leaving Christianity?

[Suhar]

Why won't you answer the question?

If I have two populations that are physically unable to breed with each other, but can fully breed on their own, are they two different species?

Show me some kind of evidence Tragopogon Tragopogon becoming anything other then Tragopogon Tragopogon? It is still very much a Tragopogon Tragopogon. Just because there is some mutation within a specie it only means that mutation will die off and Tragopogon Tragopogon will go on being Tragopogon Tragopogon.

 

[River Jordan]

Tagopogon is a genus.

Why won't you answer the question?

If I have two populations that are physically unable to breed with each other, but can fully breed on their own, are they two different species?

 

[Mr.Bride]

River Jordan, you wanna know where you lied? I believe you already know though.

 

[Suhar]

River Jordan, you wanna know where you lied? I believe you already know though.

Oh he knows. He just does not want to stop making himself more and more ridiculous with every reply. Maybe I should stop giving him opportunities to do so?

 

[River Jordan]

Yeah, show where I've lied.

And Suhar, why won't you answer the question?

If I have two populations that are physically unable to breed with each other, but can fully breed on their own, are they two different species?

 

[Suhar]

Yeah, show where I've lied.

And Suhar, why won't you answer the question?

If I have two populations that are physically unable to breed with each other, but can fully breed on their own, are they two different species?

Just because you are showing you inability to read and comprehend it does not mean that you should keep asking same question. but hey, since you are that obsessed with making fool of yourself I am are you will ask again.

You are talking about cryptic variation as an evidence of evolution. It does not work that way. Just because one variation of a flower cannot reproduce with another it does not mean that flower can become anything other then flower.

 

[aspen]

Evolution is not necessarily an organism becoming more complex - it is an organism becoming more adapted to its environment. Dinosaurs were complex creatures and they died out because they could not adapt.

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

Where in science do individuals who have been dead for three days rise again?

Where in hominid evolution does a virgin conceive?

If 95% if all evolutionary biologists are atheists, are they wrong? If they are wrong about something so important, how do you justify taking their word as gospel in other areas?

Let me address your OP. You are correct in some of your opinions, ( in my opinion which really matters little) YEC's should embrace a God in the gaps mentality and you are correct most of us do. However, it would be refreshing to hear from your side a little honesty as well. There are contrary opinions to commonly accepted scientific ideas which come from the "Christian" community. These ideas do vary in their plausibility.

When you dismiss Lennox, Behe, Meyer and even some YEC scientists out of hand, you give the appearance of an intellectual elitist as there is no possibility that you are an expert in every scientific field. You are simply relying on those you agree with.

So, there is an honest and forthright opinion from me. Your turn.

 

[aspen]

Where in science do individuals who have been dead for three days rise again?
Where in hominid evolution does a virgin conceive?
If 95% if all evolutionary biologists are atheists, are they wrong? If they are wrong about something so important, how do you justify taking their word as gospel in other areas?

For your sake, I hope your doctor, dentist, mailman, etc are all Christians - if not, how could you trust them, right?

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

Aspen,

??????

 

[Suhar]

Good read for OP:

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/Encyclopedia/10mut10.htm

 

[aspen]

My point is that we trust the words of atheists every day - why would it be a reason to dismiss the word of a scientist

 

[Suhar]

My point is that we trust the words of atheists every day - why would it be a reason to dismiss the word of a scientist

Scientists are people too. They have bills to pay. They will say what, whoever signs their paychecks wants them to say.

Seems like many believe in this cast of super smart, incorruptible demigods in white lab coats. They are not. After all the years of effort and money invested they know very well how to say the right thing and not get blacklisted.

 

[aspen]

The Berkeley site is helpful for understanding the basics of evolution and provides many examples - it also presents misconceptions.

Not sure if it got posted on the board, but here it is. Check it out even if you disagree - at least you will understand what you are disagreeing with.

http://www.evolution.berkeley.edu

Scientists are people too. They have bills to pay. They will say what, whoever signs their paychecks wants them to say.

Seems like many believe in this cast of super smart, incorruptible demigods in white lab coats. They are not. After all the years of effort and money invested they know very well how to say the right thing and not get blacklisted.

So....all professionals are liars and trying to protect their professions by peddling snake oil? How do you operate in this world with such a negative outlook? It must be terrifying. I do not think they are demigods - I just think they follow the ethics of their profession - if they do not, they are exposed like the scientist that fabricated the benefits of red wine.

 

[Suhar]

So....all professionals are liars and trying to protect their professions by peddling snake oil? How do you operate in this world with such a negative outlook? It must be terrifying.

How do you live in the world where you are nothing more then an overgrown monkey? Terrifying! Do you want a banana?

I live in the real world where most everybody has a price. Even overgrown monkeys in white labcoats. "Ethics of their profession"? Are they any different then ethics of the oldest one?


You go to some Berkley website. I have better one. Mine is called Bible.

What is your best proof of a THEORY of evolution.

 

[aspen]

How do you live in the world where you are nothing more then an overgrown monkey? Terrifying! Do you want a banana?

I live in the real world where most everybody has a price. Even overgrown monkeys in white labcoats. "Ethics of their profession"? Are they any different then ethics of the oldest one?

You go to some Berkley website. I have better one. Mine is called Bible.

What is your best proof of a THEORY of evolution.

Simmer down.....

You have already been educated on the origin of humans from the perspective of science - humans are related to monkeys, not descended from them. Yet, you choose to misrepresent what evolution teaches.

I think we need to take stock of what you have learned so far from these threads - first, despite all the information presented about evolution; you have learned that evolution teaches that humans are apes, the bible is a science textbook, and professionals are unethical.....oh and that scientists don't know what the word theory means. Nicely done.....

Your understanding of the real world sure sounds like a conspiracy theory - do you listen to Dr. Stan on the radio?

If you were planning to remain in ignorance about evolution, you have succeed. I am sure God will give you a backstage pass for groupies of your ilk and tenacity!

 

[Suhar]

You have already been educated on the origin of humans from the perspective of science

Your understanding of the real world sure sounds like a conspiracy theory - do you listen to Dr. Stan on the radio?

I have been lied to and so were you. I saw the light, you did not. Just because you are wondering around like a blind monkey in the dark it does not mean you can talk down to others like some kind of know-it-all.

Who is Dr. Stan?

What is your best evidence of evolution?

 

[aspen]

You haven't even noticed that I have never advocated for evolution. All I have said is that I do not believe the creation story is literal. I have also tried to present evolution as it is actually taught, not how you consistently misrepresent it. I believe the evidence for evolution is compelling - do it believe it is a complete theory, no.

The fact is I do not have to know how God created the universe - and I think it sad that people like yourself add that requirement to the gospel. It is a millstone.

 

[Suhar]

. I believe the evidence for evolution is compelling

The fact is I do not have to know how God created the universe - and I think it sad that people like yourself add that requirement to the gospel. It is a millstone.

Well WHAT IS IT that is so COMPELLING? You want to keep it to yourself? You do not want to share? Not very nice of you! Maybe I want to be "compelled" too!

So far the only "evidence" you have provided is you snarky attitude talking down to me as if I am an idiot. Not very "compelling" to say the least!

So, you are saying that you do not want to read the Bible or do not believe that it is a Word of God? Because it is in there quite clearly - SIX DAYS! You actually saying that believing Word of God is a "millstone" Wow!

 

[Mr.Bride]

But though he had done many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: that the saying of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord who hath believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of The Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because they Isaiah said again, He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.~John 12:37-40

Noticed it said the 'saying' of Isaiah. Some would dare to say "ahh that was just a man speaking". Believe that devils lie if you want to. That 'saying' of Isaiah were/are the words of God almighty Himself.

Aspen, the literal Word of God a millstone??? You turn any little ones away from His Word with that damnable teaching of evolution or try to discredit His truth it'd be better for you to use one as a necklace and dive in the Atlantic. And thats not just for you. If that shoe fits anybody, lace up.

His Word is His Word. Stop trying to find holes. There are none. Even if it looks like it. You need the Spirit to see that though.

I personally know Jesus. He is powerful enough to protect His Word from the hands of the devil and deliver to us the pure Bible.

The key to this thing, this journey here, is to know Him personally. Not know about Him but to know Him. Then you won't question His Word. You'll know it's the real deal then. Suhar can testify to that. :) I know where you're coming from my brother. Been there and goin' through some things now you probably can tell me all about. *Beyond the curtain of time*

Blessings